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TheOz
06-24-2013, 11:56 AM
Played, probably, my last Shadow War today, got the 50 caps trophy, Yea!

Anyway.

In the game the other team had about 6 players with a "shadow". A player NOT in Shadow War that moved through the game WITH them during the entire game. They would shoot at the OTHER team distracting them and causing them to waste ammo and time and block sight lines and block shots, eventually ending in their death.

Has anyone ever seen or heard of people coordinating like this? :confused: One team Having a group of decoy/"Shadows" not in the Shadow War match working with them by distracting the other team.

GiantInMaine
06-24-2013, 12:01 PM
Played, probably, my last Shadow War today, got the 50 caps trophy, Yea!

Anyway.

In the game the other team had about 6 players with a "shadow". A player NOT in Shadow War that moved through the game WITH them during the entire game. They would shoot at the OTHER team distracting them and causing them to waste ammo and time and block sight lines and block shots, eventually ending in their death.

Has anyone ever seen or heard of people coordinating like this? :confused: One team Having a group of decoy/"Shadows" not in the Shadow War match working with them by distracting the other team.

Nope but it's a good idea and I wouldn't doubt you seeing more after people reading this. I only play pvp for pursuits so whatever.

Atticus Batman
06-24-2013, 12:04 PM
Played, probably, my last Shadow War today, got the 50 caps trophy, Yea!

Anyway.

In the game the other team had about 6 players with a "shadow". A player NOT in Shadow War that moved through the game WITH them during the entire game. They would shoot at the OTHER team distracting them and causing them to waste ammo and time and block sight lines and block shots, eventually ending in their death.

Has anyone ever seen or heard of people coordinating like this? :confused: One team Having a group of decoy/"Shadows" not in the Shadow War match working with them by distracting the other team.

Seen that plenty on Xbox 360. Normally if you look, you will find they are in the same clan as most of the team they are helping. I am pretty sure they are using party chat to comunicate with their clanmates and tell them where all the enemy locations are. I even saw it as far back as beta before clans were enabled as well, actually.

TheOz
06-24-2013, 12:16 PM
Nope but it's a good idea and I wouldn't doubt you seeing more after people reading this. I only play pvp for pursuits so whatever.

They capped points by having the decoys sit in the open, you drive in for an easy kill, then the ACTUAL players would come out of hiding and kill you, then cap.

One instance was running to newly opened point, saw a guy running parallel to me, noticed he was a "grape" so I ignored him. He starts shooting me, I know no damage, but on instinct I shot back, burned through part of SMG clip, THEN enemy starts shooting me but I had to reload too soon so I died.

I sat on a hill for a bit and watched, the same group of enemies cap a point surrounded by decoys all bring up their rollers and runners and move off together like a wave of locusts.

Now that I think about it . . . it reminds me of something that I only experienced once on MAG. The SVER Swarm. I think it was called. SVER used to occasionally group all 128 members of team into one large pack and swarm the map and wreck everything. Awesome idea, sucked if you were on receiving end. I was.

TheOz
06-24-2013, 12:21 PM
Seen that plenty on Xbox 360. Normally if you look, you will find they are in the same clan as most of the team they are helping. I am pretty sure they are using party chat to comunicate with their clanmates and tell them where all the enemy locations are. I even saw it as far back as beta before clans were enabled as well, actually.

I'm on PS3 so the population here works against this sort of thing.

I have only been playing the PvP for the last week, pursuits & trophies, and I haven't reached 20 completed Shadow Wars yet.

It's still amazing to me how whenever anyone gets an opportunity to be a d1ck they will always take it.

Atticus Batman
06-24-2013, 12:26 PM
I'm on PS3 so the population here works against this sort of thing.

I have only been playing the PvP for the last week, pursuits & trophies, and I haven't reached 20 completed Shadow Wars yet.

It's still amazing to me how whenever anyone gets an opportunity to be a d1ck they will always take it.

Only problem with your statement is alot of xbox players have switched to Ps3 thinking it isn't glitchy like it is for some on xbox. So naturally they took their deceitful strategy to Ps3 wich apparantly isn't used to that much teamwork.

I do agree it is a d1ck strategy though. I bever use it myself, I prefer not involving noncombatants in my battles.

Epshiluss
06-24-2013, 02:15 PM
I've yet to see this. But i have seen people dropping out of shadow wars when they are about to die then re-entering after driving away.

There are also the ones that joins the war finds a enemy, leaves the war, walks up close to their target, joins the war then shot guns them, then leaves the war to repeat.

GiantInMaine
06-24-2013, 02:18 PM
I've yet to see this. But i have seen people dropping out of shadow wars when they are about to die then re-entering after driving away.

There are also the ones that joins the war finds a enemy, leaves the war, walks up close to their target, joins the war then shot guns them, then leaves the war to repeat.

I don't understand if you can walk up close to them why not just shoot them then why would you leave and come back to do it?

Edit: Nevermind I read it wrong still seems like a bunch of work though and if the person is still in same spot they deserve to die lol.

Epshiluss
06-24-2013, 02:21 PM
They walk up out of shadow wars because their pray sees them as a harmless random player out side of the war. When their back is turned or they are stationary they join the war to kill them.

Epyon
06-24-2013, 02:23 PM
I did 3 Shadow Wars in San Fran couple of days ago. There were 3 guys camping one spot who were not in the match. Shooting at us and driving ATVs around....at first I thought they were just trolling us, but then every time we lost the cap point they didn't bother the enemy. At least they killed the mobs while they were there :/

Indra Echo
06-24-2013, 02:29 PM
Played, probably, my last Shadow War today, got the 50 caps trophy, Yea!

Anyway.

In the game the other team had about 6 players with a "shadow". A player NOT in Shadow War that moved through the game WITH them during the entire game. They would shoot at the OTHER team distracting them and causing them to waste ammo and time and block sight lines and block shots, eventually ending in their death.

Has anyone ever seen or heard of people coordinating like this? :confused: One team Having a group of decoy/"Shadows" not in the Shadow War match working with them by distracting the other team.


I've seen this happen a lot actually. In one case the other team had groups of players that were not in the shadow war at several of the points. It was too obvious to be just these groups of random people showing up. There's obviously a new strategy to make it difficult to tell who's on the other team.

The only place where this was not happening was in San Francisco---edited: apparently they're doing it there now.

I'm closing in on my PvP pursuits (total kills for PvP and hours played) and they are just a chore. Almost at trusted for Echelon. Beyond that I'll need to get to 1000 rep for Echelon to buy 10 things from them. Then, I'm done with PvP, unless they add pursuits with the DLC. If those are as bad as these have been so far, I may not even attempt them.

Sdric
06-24-2013, 02:33 PM
I feel like whoever enters a Shadow War Area should be killable.
It's not like you walk into Iraq and are immune to bullets when you walk into a firefight.

dbcameron
06-24-2013, 02:39 PM
I have yet to see non-combatants anywhere outside of Mt. Tam, PC though. As it is it makes me glad to have PvP specific gear so when I'm looking down my sights I can easily pick out who's the target and who's just random noise. While this sort of tactic seems cheap I can see where it would take a bit of coordination to pull off.

I bet once you get used to it you'll notice how little a difference it makes when the extra crowd can actually be used to pin point the other teams movements and planning. It's like a Seal team using spot lights instead of night vision goggles. My advice learn how they use the tactic and devise a way to counter it, once they see how weak it is they'll stop using it.

GiantInMaine
06-24-2013, 02:41 PM
I feel like whoever enters a Shadow War Area should be killable.
It's not like you walk into Iraq and are immune to bullets when you walk into a firefight.

Lots of problems would be created by this though. Poor guy just driving through to get to arkfall gets blown to **** and misses arkfall plus countless other annoyances for pve players if this were to happen.

Sdric
06-24-2013, 02:47 PM
Lots of problems would be created by this though. Poor guy just driving through to get to arkfall gets blown to **** and misses arkfall plus countless other annoyances for pve players if this were to happen.

People would actually have to pay attention to their surrounding.
Also there is not so much PvE content yet.
Why not slow down people a little bit instead of allowing/forcing them to mindlessly kill one PvE mob after another without ever looking up.
It's also much more feeling of excitement when you ain't always save.
In the end it might even lead to Defiance being more interesting for PvE players aswell.

Arsenic_Touch
06-24-2013, 02:56 PM
You also get people that will queue up, leave, then go to that capture point and queue up again and spawn instantly in that spot when people show up just to ambush them. Had it happen a few times.

Shadow wars needs a lot of work. Should be able to do clan vs clan matches, or for larger clans allow a shadow war to be all one clan and go up against each other and be in a separate phase where if you are queued, you can't see anyone. Keep the mobs, but the barney's gotta go.

Indra Echo
06-24-2013, 03:17 PM
I have yet to see non-combatants anywhere outside of Mt. Tam, PC though. As it is it makes me glad to have PvP specific gear so when I'm looking down my sights I can easily pick out who's the target and who's just random noise. While this sort of tactic seems cheap I can see where it would take a bit of coordination to pull off.

I bet once you get used to it you'll notice how little a difference it makes when the extra crowd can actually be used to pin point the other teams movements and planning. It's like a Seal team using spot lights instead of night vision goggles. My advice learn how they use the tactic and devise a way to counter it, once they see how weak it is they'll stop using it.

The problem with this is that all players start to look alike. And sometimes you can see on the mini map that there are targets nearby but those get confused with NPC foes as well. At on particular capture point (it was actually at headfirst crater), I had lots of hellbugs and some non-combatant players that were not targeting the hellbugs as well as combatant players. With the lag that comes from entering into the instance and all the other lag as well, it became darned hard to find the combatants until 5 of them were right on me, some attacking from within cloak.

Now, yeah that's just par for the course and it's possible some of those players were after hellbugs in the crater but uh I've never seen that many people there before, so at least some were helping friends that were in the Shadow War.

Indra Echo
06-24-2013, 03:18 PM
You also get people that will queue up, leave, then go to that capture point and queue up again and spawn instantly in that spot when people show up just to ambush them. Had it happen a few times.

Shadow wars needs a lot of work. Should be able to do clan vs clan matches, or for larger clans allow a shadow war to be all one clan and go up against each other and be in a separate phase where if you are queued, you can't see anyone. Keep the mobs, but the barney's gotta go.

Yeah, this happens as well. I do like the idea of having real world events but I do think more thought has to be given to how all this is being implemented.

jbob spittlewop
06-24-2013, 03:30 PM
Personally I think it would be super fun if the shadow war area became a pvp "zone" for the duration, like perhaps those not on a team for the shadow war would be recognized as a separate team but could not capture points. Then again this could lead to further, below the belt exploitations by people with large clans. The idea is nice though. :)

Maitreakow
06-25-2013, 04:37 AM
I see it on a pretty regular basis as well on the PS3.

XxIndomitablexX
06-25-2013, 06:01 AM
A. The pvp zone idea is fantastic. Picture it in your minds eye, the lower ego players, the non-pvp crowd hustling to get out of the Kill Zone before they get caught once they see that purple circle drop!

B. I cannot stress this point enough, as my friend Arsenic Touch said, we really NEED raid size groups to pvp with, hell, let them limit it so only clan officers can make groups that size, then we can have clan vs clan challenges for both frieghtyard and shadow war. That would be a good start...please people, tell TRION you want this...NOW!

Epyon
06-25-2013, 06:42 AM
A. The pvp zone idea is fantastic. Picture it in your minds eye, the lower ego players, the non-pvp crowd hustling to get out of the Kill Zone before they get caught once they see that purple circle drop!

B. I cannot stress this point enough, as my friend Arsenic Touch said, we really NEED raid size groups to pvp with, hell, let them limit it so only clan officers can make groups that size, then we can have clan vs clan challenges for both frieghtyard and shadow war. That would be a good start...please people, tell TRION you want this...NOW!

Make a suggestion, they apparently look at them if they have enough support and keep popping up.

XxIndomitablexX
06-25-2013, 06:55 AM
I have emailed them, also have talked with them on ktam. trying to drum up support for the idea...and many others.

Epyon
06-25-2013, 07:16 AM
I have emailed them, also have talked with them on ktam. trying to drum up support for the idea...and many others.

I meant the suggestions sub-forum. Tons of amazing ideas there, add this to the mix. They claim to read it and have mentioned some in ATB.

XxIndomitablexX
06-25-2013, 07:20 AM
Hey, if you tell me the players work together there, I will head over and spend some time there!

Maledict
06-25-2013, 07:25 AM
I feel like whoever enters a Shadow War Area should be killable.
It's not like you walk into Iraq and are immune to bullets when you walk into a firefight.

Shadow War - Same as now but make the who is on whos side A LOT more obvious.
War Zone - pvp on for everyone in there. Have them pop up like Shadow Wars or maybe Shadow War can turn into a War Zone.

XxIndomitablexX
06-25-2013, 08:24 AM
yes, the uniforms should be less subtle and the color differences (or outfits) more obvious

Sdric
06-25-2013, 08:41 AM
Shadow War - Same as now but make the who is on whos side A LOT more obvious.
War Zone - pvp on for everyone in there. Have them pop up like Shadow Wars or maybe Shadow War can turn into a War Zone.

Worked on a suggestion to get it working, fun &fair for everybody:
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?97449-Shadow-War-Bounty-Hunting

DarknessEyes PT
06-25-2013, 10:34 AM
Makes no sense:
They had a shadow outside of shadow wars shotting at opposite team just to distract...
They could have a shadow inside shadow wars shotting at opposite team and killing.

Epyon
06-25-2013, 10:39 AM
Makes no sense:
They had a shadow outside of shadow wars shotting at opposite team just to distract...
They could have a shadow inside shadow wars shotting at opposite team and killing.

Makes sense, they have both. Clans can be f*gs. or even if tis just the guys outside, an invulnerable, indestructible, variable distraction? logical yet d**chebaggy advantage.

Maitreakow
06-25-2013, 10:55 AM
It also lets them see how many defenders any one spot has and where they are.