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Sdric
06-27-2013, 02:11 AM
I dare to say that I'm one of the most dedicated Defiance players left,

I took my time to get to EGO 5k and was able to accept a lot of bad decision made, hoping it'ld become better.


Bugs might have been fixed, new ones added, but at the end of the day Defiance is less fun than at the day it was released.

Why is that?

It's plain simple, playing as a group is fun.
Getting items is fun.
Events (more or less) are fun.

So what happened when Defiance came out?
People gathered to farm road-quests for keys, ported to each, played in large groups.
(At least an our clan we regularly got 20+ people playing together)
The bigger the group was, the larger was the area covered.
It was the most efficient way to play Defiance.
Thus people were forced to play together - but it rather felt like teamwork than like a must!

With the removal of Keys from roadquests this kind of playstyle was destroyed.
People went to farming mine99 & co.
Sadly it was much more difficult to get 20 players to do to this.
The groups got smaller, less player interaction was the result.

Repeatable quests got nerfed and pretty much inefficient.
People went to Arkfalls, went there solo.
Playing in a group was neither needed, nor wanted anymore.
It's far more easy to kill an Arkfall on your own than in a group if you know what you're doing.

Arkfalls got nerfed.
People started to not even care anymore, driving to end events and tagging them.

NowTrion is making the same mistake again.
The amount of Arkfalls get lowered.
People log in, look on the map - no events.
Not even Arkfalls are left to do!

What content remains for a player who finished the story, eventually reached maximum ego - when there ain't even Arkfalls left on the map?


Keys are content.
People kept playing since at the frequency of 2 lockboxes / hour they still felt like they had a chance to get something special.

Now you ->work<- (I use the term work since it has become a pain to get one) hours in order to get a box.
At the end of the day you get so much less than before that, while loot is the last reason to keep people playing.

All because Trion tried to force people into buying lockboxes. Buying power in a game they already payed full price for.

As we can see, it didn't work.
People stopped playing because it just became plain frustrating.
The concept failed.

Now please, take this advice.
Undo the nerfs to roadquests, repeatable quests and Arkfalls.
You saw that this drove people away.
Why do you keep doing this?
Just Why?






E/:





It was great.
It was fun.
Was.
Then Defiance really drove players away - rather than attracting new ones.

I do see people getting back to Defiance when Keys for road-quests would be re-introduced.

Reasoning circle:

Re-attract players:
It's an easy thought process:
-Player A: "Wow, they added extra loot? I might give it a shot."
-> Player A actually gets some lock boxes within a reasonable amount of time.
-->(S)he thinks - "Wow that's much better than before! I should give it a shot!"
->Player A now finds a rare item.
-->"Wow, that's great! I wanna try this - use it (in PvP)"
-> Player A keeps playing.
-> Player A finds a new toy
--> The circle restarts


I personally had this experience, when I bought* a legendary FRC Incubator which is quite amusing in PvE.
It kept me playing for the whole last week.
Now I slowly am getting to the state of:
"So... what do I do now?"
Since the dropprate is so incredibly bad and stats are random** I haven't even found a purple toy to play with within this whole week.

*(Since I've yet to find a good item after 5k ego)
**(I'm owner of a legendary BMG with recoil stats)



Forcing players away:
What actually happened is:

-> Road-quest-keys got removed
-> Much less loot for player A (s)he gets frustrated and tries to find a spot to grind in order to keep his/her item output
-> Player A moves to mine 99 and co
-> It becomes repetitive
--> Player A looses fun
-> Repeatable quests get nerfed
--> Player A looses even more ouput (items)
--> Player A gets even more frustrated
-> Player A tries to grind keys at Arkfalls
-> Extreme loss of output
--> Basically no motivation left to even try
->Arkfalls get nerfed for the first time
--> Player A wonders why (s)he even keeps trying
-> The amount of Arkfalls get lowered
--> Player A doesn't even have Arkfalls left to do

=> Nothing left to do.


Adding 2 keys to each road quest is likely to give Defiance a greater "push" than even a free-weekend would!






EČ/:


People want loot.
People want toys to play with.
People want to experiment with mods.

Why make motivation such a rare good in the first place?
And why on earth would take away what keeps them playing?




E^3/:




The rewards made people play together since it was the most efficient way to progress.
Now playing solo has become the most efficient way to make keys.


Playing is fun.
But only if you can feel like you actually achieve something.

Getting 12 green 3 blue and 1 violet item after a week worth of grinding does not make you feel like you achieved anything.

Since Defiance is an incredibly easy game it lacks this feeling in many aspectsEven Nim who I beat at the first attempt.
What however makes Defiance fun is the variety of different guns.

But since there is basically no level based progression for normal weapons, you really do need a legendary version to notice a difference.
To experience something new.

Don't mistake Defiance for Diablo, were rare weapons, are rare weapons. In Diablo there is a constant progression.
While in Defiance weapon power is descrete ("not fluent") and there is no inbetween.

Since most quests and missions grant a hilariously low amount of scrip, items and ark salvage what motivates to do them is the experience gained.
However once you get to 5k Ego the rewards become nearly non-existent.


In the end even if you get lucky to get a single legendary weapon after a weak of grinding it has 6 random stats that are very likely to get screwed up, making it maybe less usefull than green weapons.
E.g. Brutal synergy, damage after self revive, Grenadier on a BMG.

So in the end:


You're forced to play solo for maximum efficiency
Quests feel un-rewarding
The chance to get a rare item is incredibly low
->The chance to an item type of your choice is low
-->To get 6/6 usefull stats is close to impossible
--->In the end you stick with the weapons you have
Which makes the whole game extremely repetitive.
The chance get several different equalliy efficient loadouts become the search for Atlantis
=> People loose the motivation; It's like running vs. Usain Bolt.
The lesser the chance to be sucessfull, the more frustrating it becomes

AmnesiaHaze
06-27-2013, 03:00 AM
i agreee they remove all the good stuff very fast like road quest keys , mine 99 keys , scrapyard shortcut , sieges , less arkfalls

but the technical issues usually stay long , and if they ever get fixed 2 other issues start for each issue that was fixed

dominad
06-27-2013, 03:59 AM
You now I actually wish I had had the game at the start it sounded better and the lag and bugs would have made no difference as an xbox user my entire experience has been like that. Due to the lack of content if and when my game works again after this patch I will just get to 2500 and be done.

pc360
06-27-2013, 04:43 AM
Great post and I just do not understand the business model some games are embracing.I came to Defiance and quit Borderlands2 when I worked out at level 50 to try to get the best gear I should farm bosses all day every day due to the miniscule drop rate,doing that is really not my thing so I moved on.
I played a game called Tabula Rasa which I am sure some people here played,now I would not hold it up as a shining example of how to do an MMO which is probably why it folded in a year,but to me it got the in game rewards spot on.It threw good loot at you,you would get good purples just for quest rewards.Four months into the game they brought out a range of awesome elemental shotguns and they told the community they were rare,I would often get two of these "rare" shotguns per gaming session and when I tried to give them to clan and friends they all had them as well,I saw a fair bit of complaining about the game but I never saw a "Waaaaaaaaah I am chocked up with awesome weapons and it is making me unhappy" post.
So, this drip drip of removing content,key opportunities and things to do just baffles me.I understand Trion is trying to make money but surely making the current playerbase smile and possibly encourage friends to come and have a blast is the main moneyspinner for any game,get players in and keep them in then must help with Dlc sales,use the in-game store just to tick over with vehecles,outfits and some new exclusive items,perhaps weapon skins and so forth.I wish Trion the best of luck as I want to see this game succeed as it will help bring more MMO based content to consoles especially but they need to have a long hard look at their business model and plans for the future.Cheers all and happy gaming.

Sdric
06-27-2013, 04:49 AM
It was great.
It was fun.
Was.
Then Defiance really drove players away - rather than attracting new ones.

I do see people getting back to Defiance when Keys for raod-quests would be re-introduced.

Reasoning circle:

Re-attract players:
It's an easy thought process:
-Player A: "Wow, they added extra loot? I might give it a shot."
-> Player A actually gets some lock boxes within a reasonable amount of time.
-->(S)he thinks - "Wow that's much better than before! I should give it a shot!"
->Player A now finds a rare item.
-->"Wow, that's great! I wanna try this - use it (in PvP)"
-> Player A keeps playing.
-> Player A finds a new toy
--> The circle restarts


I personally had this experience, when I bought* a legendary FRC Incubator which is quite amusing in PvE.
It kept me playing for the whole last week.
Now I slowly am getting to the state of:
"So... what do I do now?"
Since the dropprate is so incredibly bad and stats are random** I haven't even found a purple toy to play with within this whole week.

*(Since I've yet to find a good item after 5k ego)
**(I'm owner of a legendary BMG with recoil stats)



Forcing players away:
What actually happened is:

-> Road keys got removed
-> Much less loot for player A (s)he gets frustrated and tries to find a spot to grind in order to keep his item output
-> Player A moved to mine 99 and co
-> It becomes reptitive
--> Player A looses fun
-> Repeatable quests get nerfed
--> Player A looses even more ouput (items)
--> Player A gets even more frustrated
-> Player A tries to grind Keys at Arkfalls
-> Extreme loss out output
--> Basically no motivation left to even try
->Arkfalls get nerfed to the first time
--> Player A wonders why (s)he even keeps trying
-> The amount of Arkfalls get lowered
--> Player A doesn't even have Arkfalls left to do

=> Nothing left to do.


Adding 2 keys to each road quest is likely to give Defiance a greater "push" than even a free-weekend would!

CrYpToNiTe
06-27-2013, 04:52 AM
I am finding myself getting less n less motivated playing Defiance. Note that i have been playing since launch and have been thru the whole poopstorm of problems until a few weeks ago. It was damn fun.... but it not longer as interesting because everytime i log in i am alone by myself my friends list are all darken. I am finding myself playing just 1-2hrs every other day now. When the infected siege was introduced i immediately bought bits in my own way to support the game.. I am no longer feeling that way anymore.. sigh... really sad to see things are just getting worst n worst with the radical direction the developers are going..

Combo Breaker
06-27-2013, 04:58 AM
Something must have failed with the patch. There were 3 Major Arkfalls in my world last night. I haven't seen this reduction yet.

Sdric
06-27-2013, 05:03 AM
Something must have failed with the patch. There were 3 Major Arkfalls in my world last night. I haven't seen this reduction yet.

Afaik it also scales with the amount of players online.

For people like me qot free morning but often have to stay at university from 2p.m to dawn it is very noticeable.
I've been semi-afk for the whole morning checking the map again and again.

It's extremely empty.

Thearl
06-27-2013, 05:11 AM
Most likely some exec has a financial goal to meet and they decided that frustrating gamers to pay to win is the best way to make that goal this quarter.

If I was an optimist, I'd say that Trion may be reducing the arkfalls so they don't compete for player time against upcoming sieges. Or, they're getting ready to fix the game economy and launch a bank/AH.

If I was a pessimist, I'd say they're just dropping the ball out of shear mismanagement.

(I've said many times that bringing back the Alpha emergency key rewards would get a lot of people playing, it wouldn't hurt the nonexistent economy, and people would spend real money on inventory slots)

MaxSterling
06-27-2013, 05:22 AM
I was thinking that bonus loot weekend is exactly how loot drops should normally be.

Nerf Err Thang
06-27-2013, 05:51 AM
OP is spot on. I was here from day one and bought the Ultimate Edition thing from Gamestop unfortunately. Before the first patch the game was great, but with the patches and hotfix the game has got progressively worse with each one. With the new nerf to keycodes I wish they would just go ahead and get rid of them and straight up tell us they want us to use real money to get tier boxes.

BrassRazoo
06-27-2013, 05:55 AM
I have not logged on in about a week, as the last few times I did the map is rather barren.
I was getting a little jaded but with sieges things sort of picked up.
I could do the new Sieges, perhaps an Arkfall, then a Emergency or two or chip away at some Contracts while waiting in the PvP queue.
Keys can add up reasonably fast when completing certain tasks frequently.
Perhaps the activity is based on the amount of players online in your phase, I don't know.
Not that it would matter as they could activate everything at once but if the players online were few then things may not complete anyway.
Recently many Arks are bugged or few and far between. The PvP queues are getting longer and longer. Sieges are not in the game at present. Contracts still are but as I'm Trusted with all the rewards are not worth the effort.
Shadow Wars never start in my prime time, only during the day, which means weekends for me.
So yeah, when it clicks it is fun, but for me I don't hear any clicking just a dull grinding sound.

Colif
06-27-2013, 06:44 AM
I got fed up doing arkfalls, collecting a bunch of keys and then being given a bunch of random blues in T4 boxes. The incentive to even collect keys is gone for me, I get better items coming 8th in arkfalls than i do from boxes. Buying a t4 box with cash and getting blues is a slap, the purple boxes should have at least a purple in them.

When the road quests gave keys, I could at least put up with crap contents as you could get 24 keys in about 30 minutes, so green **** didn't hurt as much. It takes longer to get them now and the reward isn't worth the effort.

Only reason I play now is to finish the combat pursuits, and as the only weapons I need to lvl up are sniper rifles, arkfalls aren't very handy (majors are a waste of time due to no weapon exp at them). I only really do them now if they fall on me, and only if i feel like it, I have been known to go to another zone just to avoid them.

squidgod2000
06-27-2013, 06:46 AM
Just running out the clock until FFXIV:ARR soft-launches. That's a game worth playing--this isn't.

I'd be more satisfied with the keycode situation if we had mass-salvage, but seeing as we don't even have half-decent chat yet (something they've been promising is "coming soon" since Alpha), I'm not holding my breath.

Fancypants
06-27-2013, 06:53 AM
Bugs might have been fixed, new ones added, but at the end of the day Defiance is less fun than at the day it was released.

Why is that?

It's plain simple, playing as a group is fun.
Getting items is fun.
Events (more or less) are fun.
Once again, the case has once again been made for this game going F2P.. immediately if not sooner.

Even if the people are not paying, right away you have more people for everyone else to play with and reasons to log in, instead of logging in now, and seeing the few people who 'paid'. That doesn't make much sense.

My guess is that the Defiance folks know this and have either:

1) Been seriously trying to convince the higher-up suits that this game needs to go F2P now, instead of some already projected F2P date they have down the line (right before new games are released)

or

2) the Trion suits have already told the remaining Defiance devs 'Convert this game NAO to F2P!' and they have been doing that as well, which is why the DLC is slow


It's just a matter of time either way. In the meantime as long as some players are still having 'fun', by all means keep logging in even if it means you see less people. Everyone else will come back later (maybe) when there are more people since there won't be a charge anyways.

But the increasing numbers of "I'm bored" posts (not 'this game sucks!') are starting to outweigh anything else which is extremely bad.

Colif
06-27-2013, 07:03 AM
F2P? you don't pay to play now, I assume you mean Free 2 Buy? (at least, its F2P on ps3, I assumed it was same on pc?)

Fancypants
06-27-2013, 07:16 AM
F2P? you don't pay to play now, I assume you mean Free 2 Buy? (at least, its F2P on ps3, I assumed it was same on pc?)

Pay to Play= Buy the game, pay a sub each month to play.

Buy to Play= Buy the game, play forever free afterwards.

Free to Play= No buying anything, just play the game.


I mean F2P.

Olaf
06-27-2013, 07:53 AM
OP is spot on. I was here from day one and bought the Ultimate Edition thing from Gamestop unfortunately. Before the first patch the game was great, but with the patches and hotfix the game has got progressively worse with each one. With the new nerf to keycodes I wish they would just go ahead and get rid of them and straight up tell us they want us to use real money to get tier boxes.

whats this new nerf to keycodes? ive been doing some missions i.e. seascape farms and my group m8 gets 2 but i get 0 most of the time.. you talkin about that?

Conceit
06-27-2013, 07:57 AM
First, Re: F2P: It is always PC folk I see talking about F2P. I think it is because console players are used to actually paying for games. So, when you say F2P do you mean across all platforms? How would that work? Would the cost of pushing a large game "free" through MS's or PS's store make them more likely to try to "force" players into buying bits?

Also, I really do not feel like I have been "forced" into buying bits. In fact, I have never spent cash on a lockbox and seem to be doing fine. The only thing I have seen is Trion fxing things that where broken (emergancies were never supposed to give keys) or being exploited (Mine 99 and Scrapworks). I think that the reduction in the max number of active arkfalls is a resource managment issue and prep work for the DLC. It may have also had somethng to do with tagging. I think Trion's goal is not to "force" you to buy lockboxes, but to at least make you play the game to get them. I played some yesterday after the patch. I don't think I saw a moment when there wasn't at lest one major AF active.

Is loot the only thing that motivates anyone to play this game, no one just enjoys the game itself? If so, would getting more loot quicker just shorten your interest in the game?

Maverick Panda
06-27-2013, 08:27 AM
I converted all of my ark salvage into keycodes. Why? I just give up. Got 4 oranges from 900k ark salvage.

Sdric
06-27-2013, 08:29 AM
You don't seem to understand Conceit.


The rewards made people play together since it was the most efficient way to progress.
Now playing solo has become the most efficient way to make keys.


Playing is fun.
But only if you can feel like you actually achieve something.

Getting 12 green 3 blue and 1 violet item after a week worth of grinding does not make you feel like you achieved anything.

Since Defiance is an incredibly easy game it lacks this feeling in many aspectsEven Nim who I beat at the first attempt.
What however makes Defiance fun is the variety of different guns.

But since there is basically no level based progression for normal weapons, you really do need a legendary version to notice a difference.
To experience something new.

Don't mistake Defiance for Diablo, were rare weapons, are rare weapons. In Diablo there is a constant progression.
While in Defiance weapon power is descrete ("not fluent") and there is no inbetween.

Since most quests and missions grant a hilariously low amount of scrip, items and ark salvage what motivates to do them is the experience gained.
However once you get to 5k Ego the rewards become nearly non-existent.


In the end even if you get lucky to get a single legendary weapon after a weak of grinding it has 6 random stats that are very likely to get screwed up, making it maybe less usefull than green weapons.
E.g. Brutal synergy, damage after self revive, Grenadier on a BMG.

So in the end:


You're forced to play solo for maximum efficiency
Quests feel un-rewarding
The chance to get a rare item is incredibly low
->The chance to an item type of your choice is low
-->To get 6/6 usefull stats is close to impossible
--->In the end you stick with the weapons you have
Which makes the whole game extremely repetitive.
The chance get several different equalliy efficient loadouts become the search for Atlantis
=> People loose the motivation; It's like running vs. Usain Bolt.
The lesser the chance to be sucessfull, the more frustrating it becomes

Conceit
06-27-2013, 08:36 AM
I do understand, I just disagree. What I am "hearing" you say now is that if you rush through the game you have nothing left to do. It makes me wonder how many players are even at or near Ego 5000? I can't recall running into more than one or two ith an Ego over 4000 since April.

Sdric
06-27-2013, 08:44 AM
What has the speed of reaching EGO 5k have to do with impulses to play in team?
Or to continue playing afterwards?

Or the reward for questing / Arkfalls in general?

I don't see you actually responding to the issues mentioned in this topic.
I only see you hating on people for getting to 5k.



Actio reactio.
I stated how the reduction negatively effected teamplay and how it negatively effected long term motivation.

What has my ego to do with it?

E/:
I'll write a few lines to respond to your opinion though.

The way is not the goal.
The goal is the "steady-state" (all people in the end are on the same level of balance) to be PvP-ready which requires max. EGO.

At this point the game should start - not be over

E/:
A competitive environment requires equal chances.
Thus a an upper border.
Once this upper border is reached a competitive environment can be created.

P.S.
This is off topic, I won't go further into detail in order to screw up this topic.
In case you wanna discuss this create another topic :)

Hope499
06-27-2013, 08:59 AM
Has nothing to do with F2P...that's not even close to what the OP is saying....

going F2P will not magically FIX the issues with the game...it will just be more people in this broken *** world (at this point, almost no one who picks this game up, for free, is willing to spend actual money in game....imo, I could be wrong...)

They need to fix the world, more co-op maps, bring sieges back, key fragments at emergencys, larger groups, organized PVP.....not more players to complain on the forums....please lord not that

Conceit
06-27-2013, 09:27 AM
Wow... No, I am not hating on anyone for getting to 5K. Sorry, but no.

I am tryiing to point out there you are part of a very small group who have completed everything. For those of us that haven't I haven't seen any decrease in impulse toword team play cuased by Trion's changes. I presume therefore that your problem is that you do simpily have nothing left to do.

The cure for that is normally DLC, but I have bad news. Normally the first DLC or two are directed more at people in the middle of the game (the largest group of players). You may have to wait for more people to catch up to you before you see improvement on your end.

EDIT - Wait, being PvP ready requires max Ego? Are you sure? I do quite well in the low 2000's.

Jay Common
06-27-2013, 09:52 AM
I basically agree with everything the OP said except for the main idea of the post. Trion has definitely nerfed the wrong things in this game, and we have all suffered because of it. It seems as if, they are trying to maximize the longevity of the game by making it harder for us to do the things we have already been doing. And the lack of end-game content does get boring......when you do it solo.


I just don't understand how you opine that doing the things in this game solo "maximizes your efficiency"?? Either the people you run with don't really know what they are doing, or you ran out of people to run with? I stopped playing the game solo because I could really care whether or not I hit 5k EGO. I'm at 3300 and doing just fine with that. When more content is added, I will more than likely go back to soloing. But I still enjoy the hell out of the game during the weekends when I am playing with my rl friends. Regardless if we aren't spawning an orange weapon in a lock box every week, it is still fun blasting enemies with friends. And we get FAR more done together than I ever do by myself.

But basically everything else you said is pretty spot on.

EDIT: And I do have to agree with Conceit about the PvP. Cloak being available in PvP allows you to beast regardless of what your EGO rating is. Sure you can beast a little harder when you have the right perks maxed out, but its not noticeable.

Fancypants
06-27-2013, 09:54 AM
First, Re: F2P: It is always PC folk I see talking about F2P. I think it is because console players are used to actually paying for games. So, when you say F2P do you mean across all platforms? How would that work? Would the cost of pushing a large game "free" through MS's or PS's store make them more likely to try to "force" players into buying bits?

Also, I really do not feel like I have been "forced" into buying bits. In fact, I have never spent cash on a lockbox and seem to be doing fine. The only thing I have seen is Trion fxing things that where broken (emergancies were never supposed to give keys) or being exploited (Mine 99 and Scrapworks). I think that the reduction in the max number of active arkfalls is a resource managment issue and prep work for the DLC. It may have also had somethng to do with tagging. I think Trion's goal is not to "force" you to buy lockboxes, but to at least make you play the game to get them. I played some yesterday after the patch. I don't think I saw a moment when there wasn't at lest one major AF active.

Is loot the only thing that motivates anyone to play this game, no one just enjoys the game itself? If so, would getting more loot quicker just shorten your interest in the game?
You can look at DCUO to see 'how it works'. I/we aren't supposed to come up with all the details for a company to implement, only suggestions/solutions for an ailing game like ours. If that was the case, I'd be charging them for advice they'd be using to profit... meaning.. hire me.

Second, PC players don't like to pay, lol? Most of the cheap people I've ever met in my life are console players... and who's doing the crying now that Xbone was talking before about getting rid of used games? Oh yeah.. console players. Most PC players spend money like drunken sailors especially when you figure we've been supporting the computer gaming industry like no other.

I think PC players are a bit smarter about this and have a certain expertise when it comes to these matters so you should trust our judgment here, especially since we actually have experience regarding games with LARGE populations, games that are designed to run off LARGE populations or games that need LARGE populations to exist in the first place.

You guys are used to playing solo with yourselves so you don't really know why games like this need big populations or they die.

ralisti
06-27-2013, 01:41 PM
You can look at DCUO to see 'how it works'. I/we aren't supposed to come up with all the details for a company to implement, only suggestions/solutions for an ailing game like ours. If that was the case, I'd be charging them for advice they'd be using to profit... meaning.. hire me.

Second, PC players don't like to pay, lol? Most of the cheap people I've ever met in my life are console players... and who's doing the crying now that Xbone was talking before about getting rid of used games? Oh yeah.. console players. Most PC players spend money like drunken sailors especially when you figure we've been supporting the computer gaming industry like no other.

I think PC players are a bit smarter about this and have a certain expertise when it comes to these matters so you should trust our judgment here, especially since we actually have experience regarding games with LARGE populations, games that are designed to run off LARGE populations or games that need LARGE populations to exist in the first place.

You guys are used to playing solo with yourselves so you don't really know why games like this need big populations or they die.

That is part of a the problem.

Console gamers think Defiance is a cutting edge MMO because the majority of them have not seen anything like this on their consoles.

PC gamers are not impressed though, because what they ended up with for their $60+ is something that would have been awesome....10+ years ago. The graphics are hum drum. The story line short and disjointed. The content...well, let's just say we could download an indie game from Steam for $4.99 with tons more content.

The majority of PC gamers are just not impressed at all. They expected something fresh but ,due to the staggering weakness of consoles, ended up with something that is intentionally crippled on the PC. It would be no different than if some PC developer ported a Game Boy Advanced game to console, and told everyone it is something cutting edge and fresh.

PC gamers know that Defiance is a MMO is only the most strictest of terms. With the scaling, other players in Defaince might as well be an annoying NPC that kills skitterlings when you tell it to stand in the corner. Why? Because there is no reason in the game, outside of being forced to in COOPS and clan for pursuits, to be social...and even if you wanted to the UI and voice chat are so horrible as to make being social majorly annoying.

From a PC gamers perspective, the game is just lacking on almost every level. From Trion, the PC gamers expected way more.

And regarding PC gamers not wanting to spend any money, I think one should look at those who bought a console with parts so old that a cell phone today is almost as good.

I can tell you that I, personally, just bought a SSD hard drive that cost more then your console, and probably a good chunk of your games. PC gamers have no problem dropping cash, when it is worth it. What we have a problem with is an overhyped P.O.S. ported console game which over charged PC gamers by about 600% now trying to figure out how to get even more money out of those majorly disappointed with the game.

Chapel
06-27-2013, 02:03 PM
That is part of a the problem.

Console gamers think Defiance is a cutting edge MMO because the majority of them have not seen anything like this on their consoles.

PC gamers are not impressed though, because what they ended up with for their $60+ is something that would have been awesome....10+ years ago. The graphics are hum drum. The story line short and disjointed. The content...well, let's just say we could download an indie game from Steam for $4.99 with tons more content.

The majority of PC gamers are just not impressed at all. They expected something fresh but ,due to the staggering weakness of consoles, ended up with something that is intentionally crippled on the PC. It would be no different than if some PC developer ported a Game Boy Advanced game to console, and told everyone it is something cutting edge and fresh.

PC gamers know that Defiance is a MMO is only the most strictest of terms. With the scaling, other players in Defaince might as well be an annoying NPC that kills skitterlings when you tell it to stand in the corner. Why? Because there is no reason in the game, outside of being forced to in COOPS and clan for pursuits, to be social...and even if you wanted to the UI and voice chat are so horrible as to make being social majorly annoying.

From a PC gamers perspective, the game is just lacking on almost every level. From Trion, the PC gamers expected way more.

And regarding PC gamers not wanting to spend any money, I think one should look at those who bought a console with parts so old that a cell phone today is almost as good.

I can tell you that I, personally, just bought a SSD hard drive that cost more then your console, and probably a good chunk of your games. PC gamers have no problem dropping cash, when it is worth it. What we have a problem with is an overhyped P.O.S. ported console game which over charged PC gamers by about 600% now trying to figure out how to get even more money out of those majorly disappointed with the game.

That entire PC elitist post shrouded by the fact that you confused MMO with MMORPG. Nothing wrong with consoles. Nothing wrong with PCs. Something wrong with the company who made the game the way it is. Also something wrong with people's expectations,when not knowing the difference between MMOs and MMORPGs. No offense to you or anyone else on the matter. MMOs are just online games with massive amounts of players. You could put 10,000 players in Splinter Cell: Blacklist and suddenly it's an MMO. DCUO is an MMORPG. WoW is an MMORPG. Rift is an MMORPG. Guild Wars is an MMORPG. The problem is that people expect what was never really there in the first place. Even with the hype before the game released. Nothing more,nothing less.

Jay Common
06-27-2013, 02:19 PM
That is part of a the problem.

Console gamers think Defiance is a cutting edge MMO because the majority of them have not seen anything like this on their consoles.

PC gamers are not impressed though, because what they ended up with for their $60+ is something that would have been awesome....10+ years ago. The graphics are hum drum. The story line short and disjointed. The content...well, let's just say we could download an indie game from Steam for $4.99 with tons more content.

The majority of PC gamers are just not impressed at all. They expected something fresh but ,due to the staggering weakness of consoles, ended up with something that is intentionally crippled on the PC. It would be no different than if some PC developer ported a Game Boy Advanced game to console, and told everyone it is something cutting edge and fresh.

PC gamers know that Defiance is a MMO is only the most strictest of terms. With the scaling, other players in Defaince might as well be an annoying NPC that kills skitterlings when you tell it to stand in the corner. Why? Because there is no reason in the game, outside of being forced to in COOPS and clan for pursuits, to be social...and even if you wanted to the UI and voice chat are so horrible as to make being social majorly annoying.

From a PC gamers perspective, the game is just lacking on almost every level. From Trion, the PC gamers expected way more.

And regarding PC gamers not wanting to spend any money, I think one should look at those who bought a console with parts so old that a cell phone today is almost as good.

I can tell you that I, personally, just bought a SSD hard drive that cost more then your console, and probably a good chunk of your games. PC gamers have no problem dropping cash, when it is worth it. What we have a problem with is an overhyped P.O.S. ported console game which over charged PC gamers by about 600% now trying to figure out how to get even more money out of those majorly disappointed with the game.



.....says the guy who has over 200 posts on a forum for a game he obviously despises?

Probably has 4k+ EGO rating cuz he plays it so much.

**** with your PC this PC that crap. If you knew all of this was going to happen because of "consoles outdated technology" it's your own damn fault for buying the game in the first place.

Chapel
06-27-2013, 02:25 PM
.....says the guy who has over 200 posts on a forum for a game he obviously despises?

Probably has 4k+ EGO rating cuz he plays it so much.

**** with your PC this PC that crap. If you knew all of this was going to happen because of "consoles outdated technology" it's your own damn fault for buying the game in the first place.

^This right here.

Between all them PC elitism,all I really got out of that was "PC gamers know how to spend money when and where it's needed. Only I didn't spend mine as wisely as I should have."

By no means is there anything wrong with that. People make purchase mistakes. Hell,I do too once in awhile. But if I know something is over-hyped and if I know it's some type of port,and if I know all of this beforehand,I wouldn't buy the game. I'd not pre-order. There were trailers,interviews,previews,etc. I'd be able to make my decision in advance. If I make a bad one,it's no one's fault but my own. I won't turn around and blame another type of gamer. If I had to point fingers,it'd only be at myself with one hand and at the developer with the other hand.

Jaydogg
06-27-2013, 02:34 PM
I bought 20 teir 4 boxes in the last 2 days and not a single legendary. its not even worth it to open the lockboxes anymore... god I feel so bad for people dumb enough to spend real money on those!

ralisti
06-27-2013, 02:44 PM
.....says the guy who has over 200 posts on a forum for a game he obviously despises?

Probably has 4k+ EGO rating cuz he plays it so much.

**** with your PC this PC that crap. If you knew all of this was going to happen because of "consoles outdated technology" it's your own damn fault for buying the game in the first place.

Firstly, I have been lingering in the game waiting on a couple of other games to be released to move on. So yeah, I been piddling around Defiance still. I figured I got suckered out of purchasing the Digital Edition and seasons pass, I might as well try to get any much value as I can out of the game before I drop it with no intention of coming back.

Nothing I said was elitist. The current gen of consoles are so antiquated that it is not funny. Today's smart phones are almost as powerful a game console. It is just a fact. But no where on the PC game package did it say "Built to the top standards to technology 10 years ago."

Answer me this. If you bought a game for your console, and it was written to be ran on a GBA and someone just ported it to console, would you feel cheated of the $60+ dollars you spent on the game? How about if they showed you the PC version, with all the bells and whistles a Triple Crossfire setup could push...but when you got the game you found it intentionally crippled down to the point your antiquated console could actually play it?

It is not elitist at all to be upset that the game one bought thinking it would be an actually PC game is actually a poorly ported game meant to be ran on an Amiga...I mean XBox or PS3. I know it hurts your feelings, but you might as well be playing on a Super Nintendo from a PC persons perspective.

Chapel
06-27-2013, 02:56 PM
Firstly, I have been lingering in the game waiting on a couple of other games to be released to move on. So yeah, I been piddling around Defiance still. I figured I got suckered out of purchasing the Digital Edition and seasons pass, I might as well try to get any much value as I can out of the game before I drop it with no intention of coming back.

Nothing I said was elitist. The current gen of consoles are so antiquated that it is not funny. Today's smart phones are almost as powerful a game console. It is just a fact. But no where on the PC game package did it say "Built to the top standards to technology 10 years ago."

Answer me this. If you bought a game for your console, and it was written to be ran on a GBA and someone just ported it to console, would you feel cheated of the $60+ dollars you spent on the game? How about if they showed you the PC version, with all the bells and whistles a Triple Crossfire setup could push...but when you got the game you found it intentionally crippled down to the point your antiquated console could actually play it?

It is not elitist at all to be upset that the game one bought thinking it would be an actually PC game is actually a poorly ported game meant to be ran on an Amiga...I mean XBox or PS3. I know it hurts your feelings, but you might as well be playing on a Super Nintendo from a PC persons perspective.

There's nothing wrong at all to be angry about a bad purchase. It should be a learning experience in doing research before buying. I know if I bought something that was ported,I'd surely do research first. I do it with all the games I buy. Being angry isn't being an elitist. It's the things you're saying out of anger and surrounding your point. You're smothering your good points with this attitude and it's taking a very bad approach and impression of you. You screwed up. Made a bad purchase decision. I'm sure you'll learn everything you need to know about the next game you buy before buying it,right? But everything else said is rather unnecessary. Regardless of anyone's feelings being hurt. Yours is hurt because you failed to make a better purchasing decision,so your solution is to blame everyone else but the company and yourself? Just make this a learning experience instead. It'll soften the blow for you. Trust me.

Jay Common
06-27-2013, 03:11 PM
Firstly, I have been lingering in the game waiting on a couple of other games to be released to move on. So yeah, I been piddling around Defiance still. I figured I got suckered out of purchasing the Digital Edition and seasons pass, I might as well try to get any much value as I can out of the game before I drop it with no intention of coming back.

Nothing I said was elitist. The current gen of consoles are so antiquated that it is not funny. Today's smart phones are almost as powerful a game console. It is just a fact. But no where on the PC game package did it say "Built to the top standards to technology 10 years ago."

Answer me this. If y. bought a game for your console, and it was written to be ran on a GBA and someone just ported it to console, would you feel cheated of the $60+ dollars you spent on the game? How about if they showed you the PC version, with all the bells and whistles a Triple Crossfire setup could push...but when you got the game you found it intentionally crippled down to the point your antiquated console could actually play it?

It is not elitist at all to be upset that the game one bought thinking it would be an actually PC game is actually a poorly ported game meant to be ran on an Amiga...I mean XBox or PS3. I know it hurts your feelings, but you might as well be playing on a Super Nintendo from a PC persons perspective.


........


When and where did you EVER read this game was going to be a PC exclusive and it was to be ported over to consoles? Your research integrity is the only thing you should be upset about sir. This game was built from the ground up to be on consoles and PC. Not one or the other. I am by no means upset whatsoever with the state of the game for my PS3 because, quite frankly, you are right. I don't have the top end processing power available to PC users nor the graphical prowess. But as a PS3 user I dont have access to many games where lots of players can play cooperatively as they do in Defiance. So for someone who doesn't have a $5, 000 rig that can run Crysis 3 at 60 FPS I am quite happy with what I paid for. Works for me. So don't degrade my intelligence or my state of mind by saying I am upset that you have more gaming power than I. That is you assuming and being an elitist at the same time.

However, if I DID have a gaming PC, I sure as schtako wouldn't buy a game that i knew was being built to be multi platform. And if you didn't know, than the blame lies solely to yourself, and no one else.

I obviously have a lot more fun on my outdated console than you seem to be having with your uber l33t setup so maybe you should ask yourself if it was money well spent. For you to sit here and blame the developers for dumbing down a game that was clearly stated to be for PC AND consoles just makes you sound ignorant, uninformed and elitist.

Go play Civ 5 or something.

And have a nice day :)

Qmarkball
06-27-2013, 03:22 PM
OP-Spot on!

Problem is that is not their business model, its "Lets take their money and walk away from the project" AKA SCAM!

They have failed to fulfill their obligations as a vendor.

They have made this game increasingly harder, Why you ask? So people will buy Bits and spend money of boxes. Trion had a scheme the whole time to lure gamers in and then take our money and dip. Thats called false advertising and thats illegal.

END OF STORY And they are not going to change unless everybody jumps on board and files a com[plaint to the BBB or petition a refund.

Im sure they will never see this post since they fail to respond to any of our claims.

FU TRION!

Sdric
06-27-2013, 03:35 PM
This is not making the game more difficult.
This is slowing down /crippling the pace players get items at on order to make it appear as if there was more content.

Making the gamer more difficult would mean giving bugs 50% more health & attack damage.

Qmarkball
06-27-2013, 03:40 PM
People work all day (most people) and want to enjoy a game, not go back to work and grind all ****ing day just to receive a imaginary item that is worthless.

Say goodbye to your customers, because you are pushing them away.

AmnesiaHaze
06-27-2013, 04:32 PM
So people will buy Bits and spend money of boxes.

i tried that , spend my spare 4k bits on 10 tier4 boxes in a row on a bonus loot weekend , but didnt get an single rare weapon , after that i will spend my other bits only on inventories, outfits , cars and boosts , but lockboxes never again , funny thing is if the bits lockbox had higher rare odds and actually gave me something rare in return id be inclined to buy more , but the current system is rather discouraging for those that tried

Wtflag
06-27-2013, 04:38 PM
Let me just talk a bit about another game which I have played rather extensively.

That game is Diablo 3.

In the beginning, legendary items are almost non-existent. Their drop rates were terribly low and Inferno difficulty was hard (because monsters two-hit you). Players lobbied the developers to increase drop rates, and they did.

That lead to players complaining the game was too easy. So they made 10 scaling difficulty with bonus drop rates for doing higher difficulty and called it monster power. (MP1 to MP10)

And then the players complained that MP10 was too hard and didn't give enough loot for its relative difficulty. So they made higher MP give even more loot.

Ultimately, it became a silly cycle of players vs mob stats.

1. Mobs have high stats, players demand better gear.
2. Players with better gear then says game has no challenge and demand hard mobs.
3. Go to step 1.

And due to the drop rates, what was good gear became mediocre, and the mediocre gear became bad gear. Every item kept devaluing as they increased drops time and time again. Now Blizzard is going to introduce, due to player demands, new super powerful gear that are very rare drops and thus we have come a full cycle.

Here ends the history lesson. I'm not saying that the OP is in error, for what he says are quite simply facts. But sometimes, you have to look at the reasons behind the actions of others. In this case, Trion is acting to preserve the rarity of legendaries (and get more people to buy lockboxes with bits no doubt) and you have to remember the positive aspect of that, your oranges retain their value. Remember, there is no item sink in this game, any good item you find remains forever, especially since we have mastery reset.

ralisti
06-27-2013, 04:53 PM
........


When and where did you EVER read this game was going to be a PC exclusive and it was to be ported over to consoles? Your research integrity is the only thing you should be upset about sir. This game was built from the ground up to be on consoles and PC. Not one or the other. I am by no means upset whatsoever with the state of the game for my PS3 because, quite frankly, you are right. I don't have the top end processing power available to PC users nor the graphical prowess. But as a PS3 user I dont have access to many games where lots of players can play cooperatively as they do in Defiance. So for someone who doesn't have a $5, 000 rig that can run Crysis 3 at 60 FPS I am quite happy with what I paid for. Works for me. So don't degrade my intelligence or my state of mind by saying I am upset that you have more gaming power than I. That is you assuming and being an elitist at the same time.

However, if I DID have a gaming PC, I sure as schtako wouldn't buy a game that i knew was being built to be multi platform. And if you didn't know, than the blame lies solely to yourself, and no one else.

I obviously have a lot more fun on my outdated console than you seem to be having with your uber l33t setup so maybe you should ask yourself if it was money well spent. For you to sit here and blame the developers for dumbing down a game that was clearly stated to be for PC AND consoles just makes you sound ignorant, uninformed and elitist.

Go play Civ 5 or something.

And have a nice day :)

I never said that I read that anywhere. Nor did I read that it was going to be ported directly from console, with all the (from a PC users perspective) crippling due to being written for 10 year old hardware. What I did read was that it was being released for the PC.

I also did not read that content would have to be cycled on the PC because the antiquated hardware of the consoles could not handle everything at once. I did not read that it was an MMO in name only because it is based off the console ideal of MMO, not the MMO that PC users expect.

I am not dishing on console users. If those users are happy with the game, more power to them. What I am doing is explaining why the PC version of Defiance is such a dismal failure with a population lower than many games before the game ends it's life cycle. From a console users perspective, the game is probably cutting edge. From a PC users perspective, it is 10 years behind the curve and it cost them $60 to find out.

Oh, and I almost forgot. I may just go play Civ 5...because I can. :p

Chapel
06-27-2013, 05:10 PM
I never said that I read that anywhere. Nor did I read that it was going to be ported directly from console, with all the (from a PC users perspective) crippling due to being written for 10 year old hardware. What I did read was that it was being released for the PC.

I also did not read that content would have to be cycled on the PC because the antiquated hardware of the consoles could not handle everything at once. I did not read that it was an MMO in name only because it is based off the console ideal of MMO, not the MMO that PC users expect.

I am not dishing on console users. If those users are happy with the game, more power to them. What I am doing is explaining why the PC version of Defiance is such a dismal failure with a population lower than many games before the game ends it's life cycle. From a console users perspective, the game is probably cutting edge. From a PC users perspective, it is 10 years behind the curve and it cost them $60 to find out.

Oh, and I almost forgot. I may just go play Civ 5...because I can. :p

This post doesn't make any sense. Your first statement is inherently agreeing with Jay Common's post about you not paying clearer attention. No effort to do any research whatsoever. He was saying (and so was I) that it's no one's fault but your own on that purchase. I'll even go as far as to say Trion takes some blame too in terms of their design choices. But you had the ability to use your epic PC to do some research on the game before shelling out money.

Also,consoles do get MMORPGs and MMOs. Real PC gamers know the difference between the two and expect such for each category. I'm primarily a console gamer and know this difference. Why don't you? It would be disrespectful to other PC gamers for you to speak for them when you say what PC users expect. Because they can expect an MMO to be an MMO and an MMORPG to be an MMORPG. There's a clear difference between the two. Also,nobody on the console end thought Defiance was cutting edge. At least where I'm at. There's probably some here and there that were mindblown by the "2-Unlimited" player count displayed on the back of the box for the PS3 version. But meh,I've seen better...on console no less. Blind elitism is just that,I suppose. But props to you for being able to play better looking games and having the money to do so. Now it's just a matter of knowing where and how to spend that money wisely.

MagellanD
06-27-2013, 05:36 PM
Most likely some exec has a financial goal to meet and they decided that frustrating gamers to pay to win is the best way to make that goal this quarter.

If I was an optimist, I'd say that Trion may be reducing the arkfalls so they don't compete for player time against upcoming sieges. Or, they're getting ready to fix the game economy and launch a bank/AH.

If I was a pessimist, I'd say they're just dropping the ball out of shear mismanagement.

(I've said many times that bringing back the Alpha emergency key rewards would get a lot of people playing, it wouldn't hurt the nonexistent economy, and people would spend real money on inventory slots)

Trion the new EA.

Nyako
06-27-2013, 05:49 PM
Trion the new EA.

No way they are that bad... EA got worst company in America two years straight. There is no way they are that bad. Personally, I don't see how EA is either, must have been for other games and not really SWTOR... lol

MagellanD
06-27-2013, 05:50 PM
No way they are that bad... EA got worst company in America two years straight. There is no way they are that bad.
Jeeze those dudes will turn anything into a yearly franchise.

ralisti
06-27-2013, 06:09 PM
This post doesn't make any sense. Your first statement is inherently agreeing with Jay Common's post about you not paying clearer attention. No effort to do any research whatsoever. He was saying (and so was I) that it's no one's fault but your own on that purchase. I'll even go as far as to say Trion takes some blame too in terms of their design choices. But you had the ability to use your epic PC to do some research on the game before shelling out money.

Also,consoles do get MMORPGs and MMOs. Real PC gamers know the difference between the two and expect such for each category. I'm primarily a console gamer and know this difference. Why don't you? It would be disrespectful to other PC gamers for you to speak for them when you say what PC users expect. Because they can expect an MMO to be an MMO and an MMORPG to be an MMORPG. There's a clear difference between the two. Also,nobody on the console end thought Defiance was cutting edge. At least where I'm at. There's probably some here and there that were mindblown by the "2-Unlimited" player count displayed on the back of the box for the PS3 version. But meh,I've seen better...on console no less. Blind elitism is just that,I suppose. But props to you for being able to play better looking games and having the money to do so. Now it's just a matter of knowing where and how to spend that money wisely.

Firstly, I did do some research into the game. If you had actually read my post instead of trying to turn this into a console vs PC war, you would see that my complaints about the game were not answered in the research. Granted, I probably should have waited until the game actually released and I was able to hear reviews from PC gamers before I actually bought the game. It is my fault for making a good faith purchase based on the information I found.

How much information did you have prior to the purchase of the game. Did you know about the plethora of bugs the game released with? How about the limited content? Maybe you knew that some of the missions were going to be broke for over a month? Now I know you want to feel superior, so I will admit that I bought the game on to little information (yet it was all I could find). Does that make you feel better?

Now back to your post. If you had read my previous posts, you would see where I spoke about Defiance is a MMO only by the strictest use of the term. You would have read that other than being forced into grouping (for coops) and clans (for pursuits) other players are basically NPCs. Does have 50 people at an arkfall help you? Nope, because the scaling just ups the hit points on the mobs. If anything, it usually hinders because you have to deal with people who think killing skitterlings at an orange crystal is just a hoot.

I can not speak for consoles, but in PC Coops, players do not even speak to the group. The text chat is so clutzy that it is almost worthless, and the voice chat is pathetic. So again, might as well be NPCs you are playing with. I guess you could always take your group/clan on the story missions...wait, you can not do that either for the most part. Defiance is a single player game with other people playing their single player game with you.

SimCity had multiple people playing the same region, does that make it an MMO? How about the Total War series, were those with multiplayer MMOs? How about animal planet, is it an MMO? In the strictest terms, they are all MMOs, but I am willing to wager that many of those playing those games would say that the other games are not MMOs because they lack something, be it fighting, socialization, cooperation, etc.

For many PC gamers, MMOs are like Battlefield, were players need to cooperate to hold areas and win maps. For others, a MMO is like WoW with socialization and raids which require a diversity of players working together.

From my perspective, Defiance is missing the Massive in MMO. Sure it has a lot of players, but everyone is doing their own things and there is no interdependence on the players. Everyone might as well be playing a single players where random NPCs show up occasionally and start shooting the same thing you are shooting.

You try to make me into an elitist, but I freely admit that there are people out there that have computers which put mine to shame. I also admit that my PC puts any console on the market to shame. It is not elitist to state a fact. I am sorry that this fact hurts console users so much.

It is all a trade off. Console users have the advantage of not having to upgrade all the time to play the newest games on the market, but also suffer from their games being limited to what the hardware can do. Even those that buy the next gen, in 5 years will be limited to games based on 5 year old hardware.

PC users trade off money to be able to play the latest in game using the latest in technology. You see trade off. Nothing elitist about it.

Daholic
06-27-2013, 06:17 PM
This post doesn't make any sense. Your first statement is inherently agreeing with Jay Common's post about you not paying clearer attention. No effort to do any research whatsoever. He was saying (and so was I) that it's no one's fault but your own on that purchase. I'll even go as far as to say Trion takes some blame too in terms of their design choices. But you had the ability to use your epic PC to do some research on the game before shelling out money.

I wont agree with this statement. Ive seen this very same argument 2months ago and here's the outcome:

Heres the beginning...

Person A: Wow all the reviews on this game are bad. All sites available rate this game a 5.5 out of 10
Person B: Don't worry about that, they're either payed to give bad reviews, or they gave a review without actually playing the game.

No research....

Person A: This game isn't at all what ive expected.
Person B: Why didn't you do your research before buying, its your fault!

After Research:

Person A: I've done a little research, and decided to come to the forums and get a real time feel for the game, how is it?
Person B: Game is awesome! Its a great pick up no doubt.

This is an actual conversation a few months ago. See when you tell people its their fault for not doing research, your the same type of guy to disregard all reviews and other forms of research.

Nyako
06-27-2013, 06:51 PM
I wont agree with this statement. Ive seen this very same argument 2months ago and here's the outcome:

Heres the beginning...

Person A: Wow all the reviews on this game are bad. All sites available rate this game a 5.5 out of 10
Person B: Don't worry about that, they're either payed to give bad reviews, or they gave a review without actually playing the game.

No research....

Person A: This game isn't at all what ive expected.
Person B: Why didn't you do your research before buying, its your fault!

After Research:

Person A: I've done a little research, and decided to come to the forums and get a real time feel for the game, how is it?
Person B: Game is awesome! Its a great pick up no doubt.

This is an actual conversation a few months ago. See when you tell people its their fault for not doing research, your the same type of guy to disregard all reviews and other forms of research.

And I can say the exact opposite of what you just posted. I've encountered it from people that played it since beta and actually HATE the game. I can't over emphasize how much they loath this game to the point that they were telling everyone to stay away from it and how they got sucked into trying it out because it was supposedly so much potential. In a way wished I had met them before when my big sister and lil brother looked into the game with me.

But I came to the game only because I saw a new game and was curious to try it out. At first I did some research and saw the negative reviews, and since I've not encountered much of the supposed negatives of SWTOR I figured that this game was in the same position, just people crying about spilled milk. Well, it took me 2 weeks to go from liking this game to sitting on the fence. It was a good two weeks until I finally beat the game the first time through, took the long way to do that with trying out several characters before fully playing through on one. When I played through, I was so disheartened, I was thinking that I wasted my money, but I sucked it up and kept playing.

Then when the recruit a friend thing came, I see if my sis and bro want to play, needless to say they read the reviews and as sister pointed out... 9/10 reviews had negative aspects about the game from customers, and that isn't a good thing as she said. So I showed her the game... the fog on a PC that can definitely draw 2048+ meters of Very high detailed scenery can't show beyond the fog on this game... the pursuits and forcing PVP in one of them, well bad negative for one and okay negative for sister and me (yeah, with her around, I'd be PVP'ing even if I truly hated it)... The clincher was the bugged arkfalls one right after another that day. It was enough to turn them away from buying the game period. The only way they would try this game is if it is F2P and even then I doubt I can convince them to come back.

So... what kept me here... You know I keep asking myself that question. I think its because the game is a casual play game for one, and that the game still has potential providing TRION fixes issues people screamed about in the forums.

As for the research, research ran two potential customers (with one that loves to spend money on in-game items) away from the game. It really sucks since, especially since unlike me, sis and bro have more friends that I know they told not to play this game. I don't even recommend it anymore to any friends because of the issues and lacking of content to keep most of them happy. Think that is why for my breaks I go to games that has a lot of content, but I still play this trying to keep hope flowing that it will get better and the DLC when it comes will make the game better.

... MEH ... I'm ranting now, sorry everyone for the rant.

Chapel
06-27-2013, 06:53 PM
Firstly, I did do some research into the game. If you had actually read my post instead of trying to turn this into a console vs PC war, you would see that my complaints about the game were not answered in the research. Granted, I probably should have waited until the game actually released and I was able to hear reviews from PC gamers before I actually bought the game. It is my fault for making a good faith purchase based on the information I found.

How much information did you have prior to the purchase of the game. Did you know about the plethora of bugs the game released with? How about the limited content? Maybe you knew that some of the missions were going to be broke for over a month? Now I know you want to feel superior, so I will admit that I bought the game on to little information (yet it was all I could find). Does that make you feel better?

Now back to your post. If you had read my previous posts, you would see where I spoke about Defiance is a MMO only by the strictest use of the term. You would have read that other than being forced into grouping (for coops) and clans (for pursuits) other players are basically NPCs. Does have 50 people at an arkfall help you? Nope, because the scaling just ups the hit points on the mobs. If anything, it usually hinders because you have to deal with people who think killing skitterlings at an orange crystal is just a hoot.

I can not speak for consoles, but in PC Coops, players do not even speak to the group. The text chat is so clutzy that it is almost worthless, and the voice chat is pathetic. So again, might as well be NPCs you are playing with. I guess you could always take your group/clan on the story missions...wait, you can not do that either for the most part. Defiance is a single player game with other people playing their single player game with you.

SimCity had multiple people playing the same region, does that make it an MMO? How about the Total War series, were those with multiplayer MMOs? How about animal planet, is it an MMO? In the strictest terms, they are all MMOs, but I am willing to wager that many of those playing those games would say that the other games are not MMOs because they lack something, be it fighting, socialization, cooperation, etc.

For many PC gamers, MMOs are like Battlefield, were players need to cooperate to hold areas and win maps. For others, a MMO is like WoW with socialization and raids which require a diversity of players working together.

From my perspective, Defiance is missing the Massive in MMO. Sure it has a lot of players, but everyone is doing their own things and there is no interdependence on the players. Everyone might as well be playing a single players where random NPCs show up occasionally and start shooting the same thing you are shooting.

You try to make me into an elitist, but I freely admit that there are people out there that have computers which put mine to shame. I also admit that my PC puts any console on the market to shame. It is not elitist to state a fact. I am sorry that this fact hurts console users so much.

It is all a trade off. Console users have the advantage of not having to upgrade all the time to play the newest games on the market, but also suffer from their games being limited to what the hardware can do. Even those that buy the next gen, in 5 years will be limited to games based on 5 year old hardware.

PC users trade off money to be able to play the latest in game using the latest in technology. You see trade off. Nothing elitist about it.

More or less this is actually the post I wanted to read. I did indeed read the others. So you're wrong to say that I didn't. Of course I did. You were actually the one turning it into a PC/Console war by spending more time in berating and belittling consoles rather than focusing on the glaring discrepancies with this game. I have a PC also,so there's no war to be had. To claim to know that I want to feel superior yet without even knowing me as a person is only another assumption you shouldn't be making. I'm not superior. Neither are you. We're all here because we bought the game,regardless of the platform. That was my point. Yours was simply hidden all the berating and such. This post right here is perfect to explain your issues with the game.

It's not about reviews and such. It's just about weighing your choices and making a decision. You're asking me what I looked into in order to determine my purchase? I did keep up with every little detail that would come up on the PSblog or game journalist sites. Previews and such. I knew already that the game didn't look all that good. Of course I didn't know of all the bugs that would come with it's release. I was one of those people caught up in that bad 360 launch. Myself and a group of buddies that are Gamestop employees opened their store for a midnight release they weren't supposed to have. We took our copies home and the game actually worked smooth as butter that night. Played until sunrise. It was fun. When Trion took the servers down for the very first time for the actual launch day? It all fell apart. I'm sure you know the rest about that 360 launch. It pissed me off. Believe me. I raged for awhile and wanted to trade the game in. I only kept it because my friend bought a season pass for me as a gift. Here's the part you may find laughable....I went out and bought the game again...but for PS3 since it ran better than the 360 version. It turned out,I liked the game enough to buy it twice. Do I regret it now? Meh,somewhat. But I do still like the game. I'm also one of the very few that tends to not have the same bugs as a lot of other players.

So for me,I was and still am okay with my decision. But believe me,I'm going to switch to FF14 once that releases. I'm sorry you feel that you wasted money. I've got no problem with you,but rather how you spent more time berating consoles than talking about the issues with the game itself. This post here was probably the best in terms of your points stated and civility on the matter. We're all here for the same reason,so we're all in this together.

Chapel
06-27-2013, 06:58 PM
I wont agree with this statement. Ive seen this very same argument 2months ago and here's the outcome:

Heres the beginning...

Person A: Wow all the reviews on this game are bad. All sites available rate this game a 5.5 out of 10
Person B: Don't worry about that, they're either payed to give bad reviews, or they gave a review without actually playing the game.

No research....

Person A: This game isn't at all what ive expected.
Person B: Why didn't you do your research before buying, its your fault!

After Research:

Person A: I've done a little research, and decided to come to the forums and get a real time feel for the game, how is it?
Person B: Game is awesome! Its a great pick up no doubt.

This is an actual conversation a few months ago. See when you tell people its their fault for not doing research, your the same type of guy to disregard all reviews and other forms of research.

If you had read my posts,you'd see the actual points I was making. Research isn't exactly limited to just reviews and such. I can decide whether or not I want to buy a game off of a few trailers,preview articles,and developer interviews. It's more about just being all around responsible with your money. You constantly take that chance with everything you buy and if something fails and doesn't live up to anything stated,you chalk it up and treat it as a learning experience. I looked stuff up for the game,paid attention to every release of information as it came out. How do I feel about my purchase now? Meh. I'm in the middle. But I can't berate anyone or anything for it. It's just another blah purchase.

Nyako
06-27-2013, 07:03 PM
I'm in the middle. But I can't berate anyone or anything for it. It's just another blah purchase.

=^.^= meh, I agree there its just another one of those blah blah learning experience purchases (DLC season pass included) that many of us won't be making again no matter what game we play. Well almost what game, I think now I'd actually preorder stuff now to add on to games that I know without a shadow of doubt that are good. Well... When I find those games if I haven't already.

Jester
06-27-2013, 07:06 PM
Hi everyone,

We feel that this thread has degenerated into a non-constructive discussion, so we've closed it. Please remember to keep your comments respectful and constructive at all times on our forums, even when you disagree with others.

If anyone has questions or concerns about this thread closure, please feel free to contact us at community@defiance.com.

Thank you!