Races should be more than just cosmetic..

I'm sure there will will be whole forums on cookie cutter builds and what not when the game is released and people have time to experiment. From this you might see your classes as "shotgun tank with x shield and y elemental weapon and this EGO with these 7 perks etc etc".

Essentially you will have a unique character based on your own decisions which will absolutely differ from others in situational use (assuming your build is sound) :D

In terms of racial passive/actives it is an interesting concept but likely won't be part of the game as I think Defiance strives to prioritize TPS skills over loot/grind/abilities, which is why everyone has the same access to all weapons/perks.

However, the early beta stages I hope do not reflect end game content in which you are likely to need a more strategic group to clear instances/raids with defined roles/targets/priorities in order to complete the challenge

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Originally Posted by Drkhao

This. I hope the game stays clear of classes and race bonuses. I hate being dragged down by having to play a specific race for the best possible benefit to a certain way I decide to play. Also, it's a huge issue with balance problems.
It's fine the way it is, don't change it.

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I agree. This game is based on YOUR REAL LIFE SELF skill. Plus humans are kind of the same as most of the Votans- Irathient Castithian are some.

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Originally Posted by Jardian

You find gear as you level that is made for this class or the other like shotguns for outlaws with +'s and so on. So saying they dont matter shows you dont know as much as you act like you do.

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You are incorrect Jardian. The only relation an Outlaw synergy has to the Outlaw origin is that they both have a similar vibe.

Here's a for instance, the Machinist starts with a LMG. LMG kills are part of the "Stout Tactics" combat pursuit, which also favors Decoy kills, Detonators, and BMGs. LMGs have some of the longest reload times of all weapons.

The Machinist synergy lets you take less damage while reloading. So if you are using an LMG, it helps. And if you're playing a tank-like Stout Tactics role by using Decoy and the surrounding defensive perks to be hard to kill, then adding more damage avoidance with a Machinist synergy would likely fit you well.

But here's the rub: anyone can load up on Machinist synergies in their weapon. It doesn't require the Machinist origin, and taking the Machinist origin doesn't give you extra-bonus synergy. The origin and the synergy just use the same name because they have the same "feel".

Oh, and regarding the original question of races and origins "meaning" something in gameplay terms. That's a standard argument.

Often people do not like it because it makes them feel like they MUST choose the perfect race/class combo for their playstyle, even if they like a different race better. In this game, I'm glad they don't matter.

Games should be more about making important choices, not making everything generic, different variety is better.

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Originally Posted by McClatchy

No they really shouldn't, and there should be no classes either

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Yes, they should, and yes there should be.
I can understand many people wanting for their "skill" to be the most important thing that determines a win in a game, but should a game be based on what minority wants? And I know that I am playing with words by using the word "minority".

It's true that MMO gaming community demands something different than pure gear based games. But different doesn't mean opposite. Every single one of us, including McClatchy wants to feel special. Visual characteristics of a race are just one of those things that help with that. And skill attributes of our chosen race, class, profession, ... are that cherry on the top that helps us feel personally connected with out character. It's out Avatar, our extension into the world where we spend out free time. Do we really want it to be just one of the clones? Or do we want to stand out just a tiny, little bit?

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Originally Posted by Elandriel

Yes, they should, and yes there should be.
I can understand many people wanting for their "skill" to be the most important thing that determines a win in a game, but should a game be based on what minority wants? And I know that I am playing with words by using the word "minority".

It's true that MMO gaming community demands something different than pure gear based games. But different doesn't mean opposite. Every single one of us, including McClatchy wants to feel special. Visual characteristics of a race are just one of those things that help with that. And skill attributes of our chosen race, class, profession, ... are that cherry on the top that helps us feel personally connected with out character. It's out Avatar, our extension into the world where we spend out free time. Do we really want it to be just one of the clones? Or do we want to stand out just a tiny, little bit?

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I want to stand out by being good. Not because my 'race' has a specific bonus to something. It doesn't work out well look at WoW for example. The human race has the BEST racial for PVP and choosing anything outside of that limits you by a pretty far difference. With constant nerfs and changes to each race to even try to bring things onto a balance issue. It's just dumb. I would rather have a class that looked cool to me, and had no difference number wise vs any other race. The 'majority' of players do not want to be bogged down by racial abilities to limit what they decide and how they want to play the game.

Yes, I realize I used the word majority just like you did with minority.

While I don't like racial traits in a third-person shooter, I wish the origins served more purpose other than starting weapons.

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Originally Posted by Drkhao

I want to stand out by being good. Not because my 'race' has a specific bonus to something. It doesn't work out well look at WoW for example. The human race has the BEST racial for PVP and choosing anything outside of that limits you by a pretty far difference. With constant nerfs and changes to each race to even try to bring things onto a balance issue. It's just dumb. I would rather have a class that looked cool to me, and had no difference number wise vs any other race. The 'majority' of players do not want to be bogged down by racial abilities to limit what they decide and how they want to play the game.

Yes, I realize I used the word majority just like you did with minority.

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I basically agree with this. I'd rather pick a race, and be good (And look good. :P) with it without the baggage.

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Originally Posted by Drkhao

I want to stand out by being good. Not because my 'race' has a specific bonus to something. It doesn't work out well look at WoW for example. The human race has the BEST racial for PVP and choosing anything outside of that limits you by a pretty far difference. With constant nerfs and changes to each race to even try to bring things onto a balance issue. It's just dumb. I would rather have a class that looked cool to me, and had no difference number wise vs any other race. The 'majority' of players do not want to be bogged down by racial abilities to limit what they decide and how they want to play the game.

Yes, I realize I used the word majority just like you did with minority.

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No, you didn't. You don't comprehend why I used that word and you only wanted to "get back at me". Childish.
You didn't even read my post. You only translated my words into some limited WOW mentality.
Where in my post did you see any mention of "best" abilities?
Do you understand that different is not only black/white? There are countless shades of gray in between that are all different from one another.

But let me explain it so even someone with WOW mentality will understand.
You are a human (I hope :)) and as such have certain human characteristics. One of the most important ones is individuality. In your case it shows with you wanting to be good and cool looking. But that is just a beginning. And at first you are satisfied with that. You are getting better and better, you change one cool outfit with another and you play.
Up to this point everything works fine. But up to this point this could also be a SP game. And that is when things start to complicate. This is an MMO . As such it demands longevity. With the game itself and with players game time. And this is where "all equal" mentality will do the most damage. Just look at what it does to GW2. A very beautiful (much, much better graphics then Defiance) game where there are tons of different things to do in the world that is filled with plethora of interesting places (again much, much better than Defiance) and what is the biggest complaint from player base? Boredom!
It's not your thing, it's not my thing. It's human personality. And you have it as well. You just don't realize because you are so happy to finally get the game where you skills alone can shine. I agree with you that it's a
good thing to see games changing in this direction. But it's the minority of people that can stay satisfied for a long time in a game like that. In a game that is based on so little differentiation.

You can be satisfied as much as you want right now, you will find yourself with less and less desire to play simply because your character, your avatar, your extension into another dimension will become bland. Skills can be maximized until the point you are recognized as the best, quests done and repeated, but your personal story, growth of your character is something that really defines you.
And it's the only thing that makes you an individual.

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Originally Posted by Elandriel

No, you didn't. You don't comprehend why I used that word and you only wanted to "get back at me". Childish.
You didn't even read my post. You only translated my words into some limited WOW mentality.
Where in my post did you see any mention of "best" abilities?
Do you understand that different is not only black/white? There are countless shades of gray in between that are all different from one another.

But let me explain it so even someone with WOW mentality will understand.
You are a human (I hope :)) and as such have certain human characteristics. One of the most important ones is individuality. In your case it shows with you wanting to be good and cool looking. But that is just a beginning. And at first you are satisfied with that. You are getting better and better, you change one cool outfit with another and you play.
Up to this point everything works fine. But up to this point this could also be a SP game. And that is when things start to complicate. This is an MMO . As such it demands longevity. With the game itself and with players game time. And this is where "all equal" mentality will do the most damage. Just look at what it does to GW2. A very beautiful (much, much better graphics then Defiance) game where there are tons of different things to do in the world that is filled with plethora of interesting places (again much, much better than Defiance) and what is the biggest complaint from player base? Boredom!
It's not your thing, it's not my thing. It's human personality. And you have it as well. You just don't realize because you are so happy to finally get the game where you skills alone can shine. I agree with you that it's a
good thing to see games changing in this direction. But it's the minority of people that can stay satisfied for a long time in a game like that. In a game that is based on so little differentiation.

You can be satisfied as much as you want right now, you will find yourself with less and less desire to play simply because your character, your avatar, your extension into another dimension will become bland. Skills can be maximized until the point you are recognized as the best, quests done and repeated, but your personal story, growth of your character is something that really defines you.
And it's the only thing that makes you an individual.

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First off. You can not decide what I will want to do. I do not want any kind of difference in race other then cosmetic.

I used WoW as an example. A very good example at that. I also have played GW2 and the boredom I get from that game isn't from the lack of racial abilities its the lack of end game content. Huge difference.

I did not use anything to be childish against you, nor am I talking down to you. (Unlike yourself) I simply used 'majority' because you used 'minority' both are falsified numbers merely used to increase or decrease your own opinion.

I see no point for any racial abilities to be in a game that is based off skill. For example, if you have a race that takes less explosive damage.. or a race that has increased stability with smgs. You wouldn't be forced to pick those races to make that kind of character. However, if you wanted to have the max amount of stats or such you would have to pick that race.
Sorry I just do not like the idea and I am way over playing games with that concept.