Printable View
Different alien races should have unique traits with advantages and disadvantages, what's the point of having 8 different alien races other than pure cosmetic? Humans should able to do more damage with human weapons while Irathient should do more with alien guns...Irathient take less damage, humans can dodge and roll faster, etc
That's so true... When I was reading the information on the Irathients, I read something about being really good warriors, so they should get a combat bonus. And like you said, they should have different skills depending on the race they are and the weapons they use.
I'd rather see classes be useful first, machinist specializing in automatons like turrets or robots for example.
No they really shouldn't, and there should be no classes either
^ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by McClatchy
Because this mythos is supposed to follow a "what if this happened in the real world's future" approach and because the races are not extremely different (ie. they are humaniod and seem biologically similar in ways to humans) then having race-based stats would not make sense. The only way that this would be plausible would be small, relatively insignificant things, perhaps akin to this:
Irathiants are slightly more agile than humans or are slightly "tougher" than humans, Indogenes can cause weapons to trigger elementals slightly more often (due to their tech background), Castithans get slightly better prices at vendors (due to their powerful position within the Collective), etc. along these lines. And if this was implemented I don't see any real benefit to being a regular old human. What would we have over these alien races (that could translate well in a game)?
As for "classes", there are none. The 4 options to begin with are more for starting loudout and background purposes than for anything else. We are all Ark Hunters that is our class. How you go about your own Ark Hunting is up to you, so there is no need for classes because you make your own style of game play. Therefore, it would be counterproductive to have set stats for the "classes" you start with.
You find gear as you level that is made for this class or the other like shotguns for outlaws with +'s and so on. So saying they dont matter shows you dont know as much as you act like you do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UmbrusNightshade
This. I hope the game stays clear of classes and race bonuses. I hate being dragged down by having to play a specific race for the best possible benefit to a certain way I decide to play. Also, it's a huge issue with balance problems.
It's fine the way it is, don't change it.
Agreed. While I do like it in some games it kind of hinders you quite a bit in a lot of ways from playing what you would like to do. So doing it this way just makes it much easier for a lot of people to play the way they want as well as look the way they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by UmbrusNightshade
^This. Nuff said.Quote:
Originally Posted by UmbrusNightshade
For classes and race bonuses check Rift.
P.S. I seriously doubt devs will re-code game following this post.
I'm sure there will will be whole forums on cookie cutter builds and what not when the game is released and people have time to experiment. From this you might see your classes as "shotgun tank with x shield and y elemental weapon and this EGO with these 7 perks etc etc".
Essentially you will have a unique character based on your own decisions which will absolutely differ from others in situational use (assuming your build is sound) :D
In terms of racial passive/actives it is an interesting concept but likely won't be part of the game as I think Defiance strives to prioritize TPS skills over loot/grind/abilities, which is why everyone has the same access to all weapons/perks.
However, the early beta stages I hope do not reflect end game content in which you are likely to need a more strategic group to clear instances/raids with defined roles/targets/priorities in order to complete the challenge
I agree. This game is based on YOUR REAL LIFE SELF skill. Plus humans are kind of the same as most of the Votans- Irathient Castithian are some.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkhao
You are incorrect Jardian. The only relation an Outlaw synergy has to the Outlaw origin is that they both have a similar vibe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jardian
Here's a for instance, the Machinist starts with a LMG. LMG kills are part of the "Stout Tactics" combat pursuit, which also favors Decoy kills, Detonators, and BMGs. LMGs have some of the longest reload times of all weapons.
The Machinist synergy lets you take less damage while reloading. So if you are using an LMG, it helps. And if you're playing a tank-like Stout Tactics role by using Decoy and the surrounding defensive perks to be hard to kill, then adding more damage avoidance with a Machinist synergy would likely fit you well.
But here's the rub: anyone can load up on Machinist synergies in their weapon. It doesn't require the Machinist origin, and taking the Machinist origin doesn't give you extra-bonus synergy. The origin and the synergy just use the same name because they have the same "feel".
Oh, and regarding the original question of races and origins "meaning" something in gameplay terms. That's a standard argument.
Often people do not like it because it makes them feel like they MUST choose the perfect race/class combo for their playstyle, even if they like a different race better. In this game, I'm glad they don't matter.
Games should be more about making important choices, not making everything generic, different variety is better.
Yes, they should, and yes there should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by McClatchy
I can understand many people wanting for their "skill" to be the most important thing that determines a win in a game, but should a game be based on what minority wants? And I know that I am playing with words by using the word "minority".
It's true that MMO gaming community demands something different than pure gear based games. But different doesn't mean opposite. Every single one of us, including McClatchy wants to feel special. Visual characteristics of a race are just one of those things that help with that. And skill attributes of our chosen race, class, profession, ... are that cherry on the top that helps us feel personally connected with out character. It's out Avatar, our extension into the world where we spend out free time. Do we really want it to be just one of the clones? Or do we want to stand out just a tiny, little bit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elandriel
I want to stand out by being good. Not because my 'race' has a specific bonus to something. It doesn't work out well look at WoW for example. The human race has the BEST racial for PVP and choosing anything outside of that limits you by a pretty far difference. With constant nerfs and changes to each race to even try to bring things onto a balance issue. It's just dumb. I would rather have a class that looked cool to me, and had no difference number wise vs any other race. The 'majority' of players do not want to be bogged down by racial abilities to limit what they decide and how they want to play the game.
Yes, I realize I used the word majority just like you did with minority.
While I don't like racial traits in a third-person shooter, I wish the origins served more purpose other than starting weapons.
I basically agree with this. I'd rather pick a race, and be good (And look good. :P) with it without the baggage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkhao
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkhao
No, you didn't. You don't comprehend why I used that word and you only wanted to "get back at me". Childish.
You didn't even read my post. You only translated my words into some limited WOW mentality.
Where in my post did you see any mention of "best" abilities?
Do you understand that different is not only black/white? There are countless shades of gray in between that are all different from one another.
But let me explain it so even someone with WOW mentality will understand.
You are a human (I hope :)) and as such have certain human characteristics. One of the most important ones is individuality. In your case it shows with you wanting to be good and cool looking. But that is just a beginning. And at first you are satisfied with that. You are getting better and better, you change one cool outfit with another and you play.
Up to this point everything works fine. But up to this point this could also be a SP game. And that is when things start to complicate. This is an MMO . As such it demands longevity. With the game itself and with players game time. And this is where "all equal" mentality will do the most damage. Just look at what it does to GW2. A very beautiful (much, much better graphics then Defiance) game where there are tons of different things to do in the world that is filled with plethora of interesting places (again much, much better than Defiance) and what is the biggest complaint from player base? Boredom!
It's not your thing, it's not my thing. It's human personality. And you have it as well. You just don't realize because you are so happy to finally get the game where you skills alone can shine. I agree with you that it's a
good thing to see games changing in this direction. But it's the minority of people that can stay satisfied for a long time in a game like that. In a game that is based on so little differentiation.
You can be satisfied as much as you want right now, you will find yourself with less and less desire to play simply because your character, your avatar, your extension into another dimension will become bland. Skills can be maximized until the point you are recognized as the best, quests done and repeated, but your personal story, growth of your character is something that really defines you.
And it's the only thing that makes you an individual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elandriel
First off. You can not decide what I will want to do. I do not want any kind of difference in race other then cosmetic.
I used WoW as an example. A very good example at that. I also have played GW2 and the boredom I get from that game isn't from the lack of racial abilities its the lack of end game content. Huge difference.
I did not use anything to be childish against you, nor am I talking down to you. (Unlike yourself) I simply used 'majority' because you used 'minority' both are falsified numbers merely used to increase or decrease your own opinion.
I see no point for any racial abilities to be in a game that is based off skill. For example, if you have a race that takes less explosive damage.. or a race that has increased stability with smgs. You wouldn't be forced to pick those races to make that kind of character. However, if you wanted to have the max amount of stats or such you would have to pick that race.
Sorry I just do not like the idea and I am way over playing games with that concept.
They should take a leaf out of The Elder Scrolls book. Their class selection is what would be ideal, with stat differences between races so it does make a difference.
I apologize for appearing to be talking down to you. Wasn't my intention.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkhao
You used Wow for example but it appears you are thinking in Wow terms. And this applies to many others, not just you. I am not into bashing you personally, here. Just stating my opinion. :)
What will it take for you and others to understand that having differences doesn't mean having more strength, less explosive damage, more stability or any other stat based improvement?
My argument is about Racial passives that increase something in game. That changes the way you play. Not something silly like "10% rep gain " or " 2% increased script" Those are non benefited racial passives. They don't change the way you play the game, just give you a slight advantage in a second tier of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elandriel
I am only referring to something that changes how you play and decreases the skill that is needed. Say an increase in Overcharge by 5%, or as stated in the end of your Paragraph.
I am fine with cosmetic differences, and I prefer it. However I am not unaware of what you mean.
I'll ask the same thing I ask the people who want melee weapons. What does it actually add? The ability to make a character the way you want with no limitations, vs. special bonuses that people will use to play how they want even if they wanted to play another race. Which do you think actually adds more to the game?
I'm quite happy with just the cosmetic differences, actually. Like if I enjoy how a race looks, but say it had an ability that I wasn't a fan of, then I'd be conflicted to choose the race that may not be as pleasing to look upon, but has the play style I more favor. Not giving racial abilities allows me to choose the race I want for how I want to look. Style over substance is basically how I roll in these types of games. Err...when I say these types, I mean MMOs in general. If I'm gonna be staring at the profile of my character for dozens if not hundreds of hours...I want it to look how I am most pleased with it to be (this could explain while I play mostly female characters in video games. Hmph!).
Cheers!
Replay value! Currently there is almost none.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosOneX
I will definitely create several characters, as I like alt-ing. But it will happen on a level of any SP games. And this is MMO we are talking about. It just hasn't any real replay value.
A curious question: If there are no special advantages to different classes, why have them at all? Is it to dictate what your starting secondary weapon will be? It'd be much more convenient to the users if you strip the class system out altogether and when you start a character, you're given a choice of what weapon you'd like to start with.
It would save newbs like me a lot of confusion like if classes have special perks I'm unaware of. :P
Its basically your starting equipment. I don't get how this seems to be such a problem for people to understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzarugi
Could have not said it better.Quote:
Originally Posted by UmbrusNightshade
im actuall fine as is.
NO.
I don't like how I need to choose a race because it happens to have better stats at something I want to specialise in. It's so annoying some race looks really good BUT it has crappy stats on for example, I want to be stealthy guy and look cool. Well I can choose one only. Character that looks cool has no bonus in stealth and more towards aggression while character I hate how he/she looks has awesome stealh stats.
Best game for me is that everything my character has (visually) is only cosmetical. I like how in DCUO you can have whatever gear on and still look ANYWAY you want.
Good thing races in Defiance are pure cosmetixcal
i agree with what you have saidQuote:
Originally Posted by Pizzarugi
I guess Defiance isn't the game for you thenQuote:
Originally Posted by Elandriel
If u look at the perks in more detail u will see that all the classes r in there. They r just dotted around the eco grid, decoy has alot of healer perks at 1st glance u pass them by Overcharge health perk and reduced dmg etc they r there just been revamped to make it fun not a chore, lets face it who enjpyed being a healer and getting blamed for everything
You can unlock every single ego power and perk on a single character. So basing classes on ego powers is an effort in foolishness.
What it seems to me like Tangotown is saying is why would you have classes in a game that has the ability already for you to be any class you chose. I picked Damage Reduction perks and my friend took damage output perks and we had no issues with playing like we were a tank and a dps. Personally I'm saying don't ask for something that's already in the game.
I choose my race and origin based on looks, would hate to have myself limited, wrong racial whatever, just because I chose a different look. Races and Origins (apart from starting weapon ofc) should be cosmetic only.
i second this.Quote:
Originally Posted by McClatchy
i like the whole build your own class thing.
i also like the variety.
i do, however think that races should have more COSMETIC differences. outfits etc. assimilated or not, they still are far too human for me lol
Everyone has enough resources from equipment ego and perks to build a unique identity. \
Class specific perks and abilities would just lead to more crying about balance etc.
Some people need others to draw boundaries for them (AKA Sheeps)
Some people draw their own boundaries (AKA Wolves)