Enough with the "weapon racism"

Defiance is full of people who judge weapons based on their color. In the PC-EU sales section, thread after thread is full of people selling orange, purple, and blue weapons, with some focusing on only the former two, and no one selling green weapons. What's more, probably 90% of what's being sold is pure junk that belongs in the salvage matrix, yet is often overpriced like it was gold. I don't know if this is the case for other platforms as well, but I suggest it is.

It scares me that people are this blind. People don't seem to actually look at bonuses, synergy etc and think through whether a weapon is good, they just look at the color and maybe a stat or two and then decide. I'm horrified to think of all the good weapons that have gone down the drain because they happened to be green (or possible blue), and I think this problem is doing a lot of damage to the general economy.

Ever since the Volge came out, my arsenal has gotten a heck of a lot better, because they drop so many green weapons. Below is just a few of the many, many awesome green and blue weapons I've gotten, and the fact that the sales forums aren't full of green weapons since the Volge came out can only mean that a lot of good stuff is being lost, as I certainly don't see green weapons equipped on high level players very often.

Please stop judging weapons by their color. Thanks.

http://i.imgur.com/z72RS4H.jpg

:p I got alot of green's and blues equiped due most all of the purple and orange are just junk. Green and blue have better odd's of having better stat combo's due to just being more of them. Even have some whites as I just haven't found higher qual of them in good stat combo's yet.

Don't you know green weapons are junk? That Tachmag would be sooo much better if it were an orange with +melee damage on self-revive, bio for the nano, and Survivalist synergy. :rolleyes:

I highly agree with OP. A weapon's color seems to do little more other than effect its resale value, salvage value, and XP reset cost. Most of my personal arsenal is green and blue with a occasional purple thrown in there. Hell, I've got a fire nano tachmag that has a -.02 Bloom/recoil on it without mods. I've got 2 green VOT Fraggers with syphon, one as grenadier and the other has quartermaster. Both are just as good as the Purple syphon Assassin VOT Fragger that I've had since EGO 1050.

So yes, as OP said the rarity system is quite off once you get to the higher levels that we've achieved. Greens can be just as good as blues, purps, and oranges. So next time someone is trying to sell you an orange weapon take a look at its stats. Does the synergy even make sense? Do the rolls work for or against your playstyle? If there are mods on it are they the correct synergy (if applicable)? Its sad how much like sheep the populace is. Just because its orange does not mean that there is nothing better.

Also OP, that is a nasty tachmag. Personally I would have gone with a External Recoil Reduction III, Power Bore III. Catalyst Injector II, and a Stabilization Sight III. My build is tank oriented though so I rely on syphon's proc to stay alive. Killing an enemy too fast means no proc, which gets me killed and is almost as bad as not having syphon at all. Combine what you've got there though with Hunter's stance, Gunslinger, and Kill or Be Killed and you'll do rediculous crit damage.

Just some perk suggestions btw incase you havnt thought of them. I see that you're roughly the same EGO level as I so I don't want you to think that I'm telling you how to play your character. :)

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Originally Posted by Dist0rt3d Hum0r

Also OP, that is a nasty tachmag. Personally I would have gone with a External Recoil Reduction III, Power Bore III. Catalyst Injector II, and a Stabilization Sight III. My build is tank oriented though so I rely on syphon's proc to stay alive. Killing an enemy too fast means no proc, which gets me killed and is almost as bad as not having syphon at all. Combine what you've got there though with Hunter's stance, Gunslinger, and Kill or Be Killed and you'll do rediculous crit damage.

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I also rely on syphon to keep me alive, but right now I focus mostly on Volge and can procc enough off them without having to sacrifice raw power. With the perks I use and whatnot, the tachmag crits for 356, which gives it an effective DPS on crit spots of 8900.

External Recoil Reduction 3 does very little on Tachmags IMHO, heck, they do very little on anything. 15% reduction is nothing compared to -0.20 recoil like on the Cannoneer AR I have, which is dead steady even with 13.1 fire rate. As such, I put on the first Rolling Thunder stock I found, which was a melee one. I would have wanted a Stabilization Scope 3 with RT, but that was the last mod I was missing, so I decided to just put the lv2 one on there. I've made the mistake of running around with a half finished gun for weeks waiting for the perfect final mod, and it's always a gamble: very accurate tachmag guaranteed right away, or even more accurate tachmag with no ETA? The 30% accuracy bonus from RT makes the thing a heck of a lot more accurate than a SS3-tachmag without RT in any case.

Man hush up how you think I buy killer blues and greens for so cheap.

Let the idiots argue of some weak oranges and how they are worth 2million with they have garbage stats.
I'll stick to my blue and green wolfhounds with double crit, my double fire rate or double recoil saws and my tacmag with double mag and recoil XP roll for a -bloom.

Let them fight over the oranges stick to blue and green with perfect stats. You'll outperform any scrub with an orange. I know I do all the time.

This is my only legendary

http://theentitty.files.wordpress.co...8-49-17-00.png

I'll take it over your sh*tty greens any day. And who cares about the synergy anyway, noone bothers to grind the mods.

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Originally Posted by Alexri

I also rely on syphon to keep me alive, but right now I focus mostly on Volge and can procc enough off them without having to sacrifice raw power. With the perks I use and whatnot, the tachmag crits for 356, which gives it an effective DPS on crit spots of 8900.

External Recoil Reduction 3 does very little on Tachmags IMHO, heck, they do very little on anything. 15% reduction is nothing compared to -0.20 recoil like on the Cannoneer AR I have, which is dead steady even with 13.1 fire rate. As such, I put on the first Rolling Thunder stock I found, which was a melee one. I would have wanted a Stabilization Scope 3 with RT, but that was the last mod I was missing, so I decided to just put the lv2 one on there. I've made the mistake of running around with a half finished gun for weeks waiting for the perfect final mod, and it's always a gamble: very accurate tachmag guaranteed right away, or even more accurate tachmag with no ETA? The 30% accuracy bonus from RT makes the thing a heck of a lot more accurate than a SS3-tachmag without RT in any case.

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IIRC, my personal tachmag will crit for close to 500-600 with related perks/conditions. Tears apart arkfalls and the larger enemies yet keeps me alive against the smaller guys when my aim isnt quite so pinpoint. xD Tell you what, make yourself a tanky class, do Liberate the Lost, and plop yourself down infront of the giant Bioman at the end. Makes you feel real powerful when you can sit there and take his bullets while syphon's proc just barely keeps you alive. Same can be done with Daig and his two bulwarks. I can only imagine what people are thinking as I run up there and plop myself down in front of all 3, eat their shots, and steadily kill them even while irradiated. All with a Blue syphon tachmag btw. :)

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Originally Posted by Dist0rt3d Hum0r

IIRC, my personal tachmag will crit for close to 500-600 with related perks/conditions. Tears apart arkfalls and the larger enemies yet keeps me alive against the smaller guys when my aim isnt quite so pinpoint. xD Tell you what, make yourself a tanky class, do Liberate the Lost, and plop yourself down infront of the giant Bioman at the end. Makes you feel real powerful when you can sit there and take his bullets while syphon's proc just barely keeps you alive. Same can be done with Daig and his two bulwarks. I can only imagine what people are thinking as I run up there and plop myself down in front of all 3, eat their shots, and steadily kill them even while irradiated. All with a Blue syphon tachmag btw. :)

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I can already facetank those guys with this tachmag, and the 356 crit stat is without any ego powers active. I do use all the major damage reduction/survivability perks, as well as an ironclad shield that I recharge with syphone, so I guess you could call that a tanky class. I've just never had the need to spec my actual tachmag for faster proccing.

Of course, with the upcoming trion-level-stupidity patch, we both need to find a new playstyle

i use manly blue and purple because finding good oranges is a pain.......i like having more than one roll plus the bonus........makes them worth keeping

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Originally Posted by Alexri

Of course, with the upcoming trion-level-stupidity patch, we both need to find a new playstyle

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Tell me about it. Aside from in PvP I don't see how putting a cooldown on nanoeffects is going to help anything. ****, some of us live or die by syphon's proc. Dont put a cooldown on that SoB. Syphon runs in our veins; its our lifeblood. Take it away and we'll surely perish.

It baffles me daily how these people pay 300k+ for these orange weapons with horrible rolls/nano/synergy yet balk at awesome guns just because they're blue or purple. This is an actual conversation heard in clan chat a couple of weeks ago:

Player 1: Anyone selling any AR's?
Player 2: I got a VBI. Cannoneer, crit and fire rate roll, syphon nano
Player 1: XP?
Player 2: Yeah...1.04 damage
Player 1: How much you want for it?
Player 2: 100k?
Player 1: SWEET!! SOLD!
Player 2: It's purple...
Player 1: Damn man...never mind...

I can almost guarantee that the player looking for the AR ended up paying easily twice that amount for an orange with melee rolls...

I just don't get it...

Brag about your weapons on the forum.
More people start using them.
Devs nerf them.
Cry about your weapons on the forum.

If you find something good, shut up.

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Originally Posted by Sir Dan

Brag about your weapons on the forum.
More people start using them.
Devs nerf them.
Cry about your weapons on the forum.

If you find something good, shut up.

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Truer words have never been spoken.

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Originally Posted by Sir Dan

Brag about your weapons on the forum.
More people start using them.
Devs nerf them.
Cry about your weapons on the forum.

If you find something good, shut up.

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BS. I'd rather have people know they have something good and possible offer to sell it, than to have them turn it into ark salvage.

I find that at high lvl, green and blue have nearly the same bonus. But the purple have nice bonus like 10% ego recharge on reload or 15% grenade reload on kill. Orange have triple bonus, but sometimes those bonus is bad.

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Originally Posted by Alexri

BS. I'd rather have people know they have something good and possible offer to sell it, than to have them turn it into ark salvage.

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They can't tell the difference between lead and gold? o.O

Those greens are a prime example of why the weapon color just really doesn't matter from a practical standpoint. In theory, it would -- oranges should get the most possible chances at good rolls, purple next, etc. They have more potential "dice" to roll per weapon. Unfortunately the rarity issue means that you get to roll those dice far less often than on lower rarity weapons, and the sheer number of available greens and blues means you're actually more likely to get something really useful over time due to the volume to choose from.

Added bonus: resetting the xp is dirt cheap by comparison, if you're still leveling the class. I still roll with lots of greens and even a white or two that got a nice max-xp bonus, for that reason alone.

Oranges just get 1 more stat, and are random... really? Legendary items should be named items with known stats, not just randoms. Its lazy to go down the random everything path...

Anyway, my best Techmag is a blue with 3 crit bonuses + 5% crit from hip. It doesn't do the damage you guys get but it beats every other techmag I have. No syphon mod, it has fire. Not sure about synergy, I know its not assassin.

I have to admit I have been overlooking greens except if I am still leveling the skill (SMG is 20), will have to look again.

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Originally Posted by Hannova

Don't you know green weapons are junk? That Tachmag would be sooo much better if it were an orange with +melee damage on self-revive, bio for the nano, and Survivalist synergy. :rolleyes:

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melee damage is pointless unless you want to use blur and in this "phantom" dlc ever becomes a reality...........


Then any melee addon... will be pointless as dirt...... because of the charge blades

BTW green weapons suck...

Tree is

White
Green
Blue
Purple
Orange...

if you honestly thing green is so hot... you better stick with the white weapons....

Well, rarity is an important factor to think about in terms of the market demand. Quality and Quantity are both factors which contribute to price, though more important is perceived quality and perceived quantity.

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Originally Posted by Samyaza

melee damage is pointless unless you want to use blur and in this "phantom" dlc ever becomes a reality...........


Then any melee addon... will be pointless as dirt...... because of the charge blades

BTW green weapons suck...

Tree is

White
Green
Blue
Purple
Orange...

if you honestly thing green is so hot... you better stick with the white weapons....

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Lol, nope.

There is no point to the rarity tree. I've claimed and gathered atleast one orange of every type of weapon thus far, except for rocket launchers and a few detonators.

Purple or blue is the way to go in most cases. If you think the rarity tree matters, you are doing something wrong.

In response to the OP, most people go for Orange weapons because they are "rare" Not rare enough in my opinion. But eh.

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Originally Posted by MattN

I find that at high lvl, green and blue have nearly the same bonus. But the purple have nice bonus like 10% ego recharge on reload or 15% grenade reload on kill. Orange have triple bonus, but sometimes those bonus is bad.

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Personally I think those bonuses are next to worthless. EGO recharge on reload is nice, but there's a perk that gives it to you for any weapon. That's fairly unique, as most weapon bonuses cannot be had in anywhere near the same capacity from perks. You cannot for instance get 1.25 crit from a perk, the closest is a bit of hip fire crit. Damage, reload, accuracy, etc are all exclusive to weapon bonuses. As such, I'd much rather see a weapon have those than something that I can add as a perk.

There are a few things being completely overlooked when it comes to weapon rolls. First, those are nice rolls on those guns, don't get me wrong. But as you go higher in rarity, you do get additional rolls. Whether those rolls are crap or not are completely chance, same as the rolls on a lower rarity weapon. So with that being said:

Whites have 1 bonus, Greens have 2, Blues Have 2, Purples have 3 bonuses, and Oranges have 4 bonuses (Except for Orange BMGs that have 3 bonuses)

Here is where it gets tricky. Certain weapons have yet another bonus roll (all types of Assault Rifles, all SMGs (expect the VOT Pulser), and the VOT Disruptor LMG only that can come with this additional bonus. It also should be noted that any rarity of these weapons from the 1600 to 1800 EGO range and up, including White weapons, can get this bonus!).

With that being said, those weapons come like this:
Whites can have 2 bonuses (counting mastery), Greens can have 3, Blues can have 3, Purples can have 4, and Oranges can have 5

So yes, those rolls all have a chance to suck. But then there is yet another factor not mentioned here when it comes to weapon rarity. The XP bonus roll. Green weapons will not share the same stats in this bonus as a blue, a blue is lesser than a purple, and the orange will get the top bonus. Take for example the green AR in that pic on the 1st post. The green bonus listed is x1.06 mag. If it were an orange, that roll would be x1.15 mag. The XP bonus roll is the only roll that increases in rarity.

If your guns were orange, the first one would have Take 12% less damage while reloading, the 2nd and 4th gun would have 12% damage from above, and we already covered the 3rd.

Here is a great chart:

Mastery Bonus - for White, Green, Blue, Purple, Orange

DMG - 1.01, 1.02, 1.03, 1.04, 1.05
Mag - 1.03, 1.06, 1.09, 1.12, 1.15
Melee DMG - 1.03, 1.06, 1.09, 1.12, 1.15
Reload - 0.97, 0.94, 0.91, 0.88, 0.85
Recoil - 0.95, 0.90, 0.85, 0.80, 0.75
Full Damage Radius - 1.05, 1.10, 1.15, 1.20, 1.25
DMG From Above - -, 3%, 6%, 9%, 12%
Less Damage While Reloading - -, 3%, 6%, 9%, 12%
Crit % While Crouched - -, -, 2%, 4%, 6%
Self Revive Refresh on a Kill - -, -, 2%, 4%, 6%
Crit % From Hip - -, -, 5%, 10%, 15%
DMG From Behind - -, -, 5%, 10%, 15%
Self Revive Refresh Rate - -, -, 10%, 20%, 30%
Less Damage From Your Explosives - -, -, 15%, -, -
Crit % to Out of Combat Targets - -, -, -, 6%, 12%
Speed Boost 5 Sec After Full Reload - -, -, -, 30%, 45%
Fire Rate 5 Sec After Self Revive - -, -, -, 15%, 30%
DMG to Vehicles - -, -, -, 15%, 30%
Melee When Shields Down - -, -, -, 15%, 30%
Grenade Refresh on Full Reload - -, -, -, 20%, 40%
EGO Recharge on Full Reload - -, -, -, 10%, 20%
EGO Duration on Crit Kill - -, -, -, 4%, 8%
EGO Refresh on Explosive Kill - -, -, -, 2%, -
Crit Multi - -, -, -, -, 1.10
Fire Rate - -, -, -, -, 1.05
Velocity - -, -, -, -, 1.25
Bug Damage 5 Sec After Self Revive - -, -, -, -, 25%
Health on Reload - -, -, -, -, 10%
Damage on Next Shot After Kill - -, -, -, -, 8%
Crit % to Incoming Targets - -, -, -, -, 10%
Damage From Last Shot in Clip - -, -, -, -, 10%
Damage to Multiple Targets - -, -, -, -, 10%
Ammo on Revive Other Player - -, -, -, -, 3%
Ammo on Melee Kill - -, -, -, -, 2%

As you can see, some bonuses only appear the higher the rarity. Some only come on oranges. Sure, a green could have great rolls and an orange could have all crap rolls, but to say that a green is better than an orange is wrong.

All that info can be found in Maverick's guide, which is linked in my signature

This is just pointing out to those that think only orange regardless of what the stats are is always best choice. These people obviously can not read but just look at color.

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Originally Posted by jandraelune

This is just pointing out to those that think only orange regardless of what the stats are is always best choice. These people obviously can not read but just look at color.

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Definitely agree on that. Glad on PS3 NA people value a great purple just as good as an orange. Greens tho, well they still are overlooked. Blues make great keepers but only if you find them. No one buys a blue, no matter how good they are (not saying I agree with that, but that's how it is).

I use the two guns u get at the start in the practice area were ur saw has a stat of 438 damage when maxed out think its called the machinists saw with zero ego rating un moded, i have an ego 1340 purple saw maxed out at 404 everything alse the same stats just wating for the right mods for the machinists saw to come along.

I sold and give all of my orange weapons , didn`t seen any thing special on them.

My load out is made of purple, blue, green and even some white weapons.

And i sometimes sell blue weps at a better price then of the purple ones i get.

I`m allways in need of inventory space.
184 slots and in need of more ;)

Empty space never stays empty, I have 152 slots and try to keep at least 10 free. Once i max more weapon skills it will be easier... in theory. game just gives me too much choice.

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Originally Posted by Colif

Empty space never stays empty, I have 152 slots and try to keep at least 10 free. Once i max more weapon skills it will be easier... in theory. game just gives me too much choice.

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Yeah, don`t really know why people complain so much :)

I have 251 slots, of which probably 120 are taken by mods, the rest by weapons. I should start keeping more semi-good weapons, I just prioritize mods and space for farming. Actually made an app just to keep track of all those mods, getting a bit ridiculous

Just goes to show how much like lemmings/sheep the populace is. Instead of checking for themselves they simply follow the crowd.

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Originally Posted by Kharnamatic

This is my only legendary

http://theentitty.files.wordpress.co...8-49-17-00.png

I'll take it over your sh*tty greens any day. And who cares about the synergy anyway, noone bothers to grind the mods.

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I had a north star with the exact same stats except the exp bonus, which was 1.05 dmg, and Syphon nano, for a couple months. Recently traded it since I thought someone else should enjoy its greatness.
Now I'm using a Blue Assassin Northstar that gets better crit damage but with +4 mag instead of +8. One shots Dark Matter Snipers.

Conrad... Go back to your wife on Earth.

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Originally Posted by Samyaza

melee damage is pointless unless you want to use blur and in this "phantom" dlc ever becomes a reality...........


Then any melee addon... will be pointless as dirt...... because of the charge blades

BTW green weapons suck...

Tree is

White
Green
Blue
Purple
Orange...

if you honestly thing green is so hot... you better stick with the white weapons....

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Obvious Troll is obviou...wait...he IS trolling right? Right?

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Originally Posted by Maitreakow

Obvious Troll is obviou...wait...he IS trolling right? Right?

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Hard to tell but I don't think so. Think he's mostly oblivious

While I 100% agree with your general point Alexri (that green big boomer that you gave me is my main weapon in PvP), I feel like for every "color racist" out there, there's also one "uniformist", who will claim that color does not matter at all (usually to support a claim that Trion created a crappy loot system). JxSiN's post and Mav's guide are good reminders of why and how color does affect loot quality.

It should also be noted that some weapons are more affected than others by the extra bonus rolls that come with higher rarity. While all EGO > 1800 AR and SMG, no matter their color, get an extra bonus that is often very good, other weapons don't. The tier 3 bonus and the higher xp roll therefore have a proportionally higher impact on the gun's power. And some of the tier 2 bonuses are actually very useful on some specific weapons (EGO recharge on reload for sawed-offs or rocket launchers, speed boost on explosive kills for detonators, etc.).

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Originally Posted by Tekrunner

there's also one "uniformist", who will claim that color does not matter at all (usually to support a claim that Trion created a crappy loot system). JxSiN's post and Mav's guide are good reminders of why and how color does affect loot quality.

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OFC, I certainly never meant to suggest that weapon quality doesn't matter. My point is that you can wait until the end of time to get that insanly unlikely legendary weapon that actually has the bonuses you want, and still not get anything better than the green you threw away because it was green.

Number one reason to be a color racist is lack of inventory space. If you can't even get through a co-op mission without filling up your bags, you just stop caring about what the weapon says. It gets 2 seconds of determination towards whether or not it's worth keeping, then it's salvaged. I know for a fact that I have salvaged amazing weapons, but purely because I would have to hold onto them until I could find a buyer. Which restricts the possibility of getting amazing weapons I actually want.