Curious why people are getting butthurt over the time frame. End of July does not mean halfway through the month people. Its dropping the 30th.
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Curious why people are getting butthurt over the time frame. End of July does not mean halfway through the month people. Its dropping the 30th.
Yes! Great news.
Well hopefully it does end up coming out in the next two weeks. But you are completely right. We have not been lied to or ripped off, they never actually gave a date, apart from summer. End of July is better then nothing ahahaha
Yeah. And it's better than some games do
what games are they thats its done better than???Quote:
Originally Posted by ItISLupus
and mybe if you new the facts from when we were told the dlc was coming out its been pusponed twice already
stop brown nosing trion they far from deserve a pat on the back they have to be one of the worst companys ive ever dealt with i just hope your game carrys on having no issues because if it does your veiws will soon change
The 30th huh?
where did you get the date from bro?
Yeah not seeing any documentation on that and given Sledgehammer70 said last friday on twitch they may load the DLC on the PTR(which he said they're trying to put final touches on getting up the ptr in the coming weeks), Im pretty sure the DLC(as zillions of threads now speak to) isnt coming by the end of July. Sledgehammer said that when they're ready to announce the release of the DLC, they're going to make very sure everyone knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Oncoming Storm
They will have to make VERY sure everyone knows since most won't play by then to keep checking on it.. I thought this game was fun but I probably won't be here when the DLC finally drops.. Unless they are hiding something there isnt that much in the dlc that they haven't already implemented that would require the huge time frame needed... And just because you never give an exact date doesn't mean you get of scott free... there have been plenty of hints of timeframes that were not met and falling back on "its our customers fault for getting their hopes up not ours for being misleading" is a low blow to us.
Never understood this as a selling point by fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItISLupus
"Trion. We're not #1 but hey, at least we're better than some games do."
It always sounds like this to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgA...be.x18H1Xt4mLc
Oh btw it's not dropping this month....Quote:
Originally Posted by theLimper
Here is the problem with waiting so long with the DLC.
There game released with minimal content but a LOT of hype.
People logged in to realize that after a couple of weeks, there was hardly anything to do but wash, rinse, repeat each day.
The game was hyped and pushed even more with reduced costs, free weekends, etc.
More people got the game.
All these people that now have the game saw Trion fail time after time with lazy episode content, failed patches and bug fixes, reintroduction of old bugs, etc, etc, etc.
People became disgruntled with not just the lack luster game, but incompetence of Trion Defiance.
People have given up on the DLC, not because it may or may not be any good, but because they have no faith in Trion Defiance.
Those that think the DLC is going to 'save the game' are going to be in for a world of disappointment when, a couple of weeks after the DLC, the population and status of the game are back to where they are now (except with even more bugs) because (and let's be honest folks) Trion is almost guaranteed to drop the ball again.
Trion has mastered hype and disappointment, but they still have not brought the current iteration of the game up to 'gold' code.
I don't know for sure when it will drop and no one but Trion does. As for what other games do it is relevant here. People constantly use their psychic vision and say for instance that Destiny will be good as if they know this to be true for a fact. The two companies working on it together are huge in gaming and not necessarily that good if people would really open their eyes. Trion gets dumped on for making mistakes that even the big boys have made and often have done far worse with. Activision oversees CoD projects-that makes them responsible for them. And yet, year after year the same basic CoD gets released with the same basic crap MP experience. Oh but great DLC comes out---new maps and moar zombies, yippee. Gee, that's new and refreshing and costs $14.95.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fancypants
Halo, wow MP is a new shiny experience every time one of these drops. Ugly mostly small maps in MP and the same stupid foes no matter what boss you end up fighting. What imagination. Sure Bungie didn't make the last one but probably in part not just because they were starting to work on Destiny but they were bored themselves. And both of these games have had some issues such as totally resetting some players' progress (not for cheating but in error), lag, created lag, failing matches that restart, and more. The only reason they may drop DLC more quickly is because they create simpler to make (and yet costlier for players to buy) content.
Skyrim-gee, where to start. Bethesda never could create a game that isn't plagued with the same problems in every version. Freeze ups, missions that will not tick off as finished even when they are, and DLC-hey PS3 players how's that DLC working out for you? Bethesda touted their DLC almost before Skyrim came out and when it was released they decided they didn't know how to make it work on the PS3 and might not release DLC for the PS3 until Sony decided to help them learn how to program for it. And on the 360, Skyrim isn't some pristine experience.
The truth is for most games today the reason it's somewhat easier for DLC to get released more quickly is because it is stuff that's either not so totally difficult to make or it's content that could have been released with the main game-content they develop alongside the main game but choose to release as DLC to get more money. EA in particular really wants to get people to buy DAY ONE DLC. I actually prefer delayed DLC to this idea. Trion stated the way we play the game will help in part determine the direction it takes. And some of our requests are being incorporated into the DLC. If they already had the DLC ready to drop a month into us playing the game, they wouldn't have been able to use ANY of our requests.
I've said this before-one dev working on another game said it takes them 6 months to create just one area in the game. I don't know how long it takes for other games, but use this as a rule of thumb. New content does take time to create and no dev can say how long it will take before they start working on it. Unless they're just making maps or re-using old ones and selling them as "new".
We'll have to disagree on that. I think it's still irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Echo
Some guy complains about something in the game HE pays for. Then someone else says "Well, you should see what they do in the game you DON'T pay for." That's irrelevant.
It's just as irrelevant as if it went this way:
"I really like this thing Trion does here. I get a good value for my money."
"Pfft.. that's nothing. That game over there that you don't pay for does twice the stuff as this one, and same price."
Point is, whatever game a customer pays for they are concerned with THAT game, not the 100s of other games they don't play. This is what should be focused on, what's wrong with this game instead of what's twice as bad over there.
It's just not a logical argument and ends up in circles, ultimately comparing things that don't even matter in the long run. If you don't think the 'big boys' get dumped on for mistakes big and small, you haven't spent enough time on their forums.
This is not an rpg and so is not and never was intended to be a story heavy game. The missions including all side missions last about as long as any current game's SP. The other content is more dynamic but much of it is "self-play". Repetition and grinding are a part of every game out there today.Quote:
Originally Posted by ralisti
Please do share with us that gold code and all the games that fit that and then really take a look at what you're getting in that game for the $60 initial cost and then the extra they charge for their DLC. I haven't seen a lot of games adhering to any sort of gold code-in fact, most of them have done far worse than what Trion has done and they set their customer service on permanent ignore. In fact, industry insiders have reported that the game devs out there don't care what you and I write in forums-they care whether you buy their garbage and EA, Activision, Bungie, Bethesda and all the other big guys sell millions of games with few people holding them accountable when they release crap.
This was classified as a 'mmo' and that makes it even bigger than a RPG. Story is not bigger in one-off console games; they are actually usually a lot smaller except for maybe a few like Skyrim or Mass Effect. No way anyone would ever confuse CoD with having a 'long storyline'. Even Halo isn't really that long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Echo
SWTOR, Rift, WoW, FFXI.. EQ2, DCUO, The Secret World, heck.. even Warhammer Online has bigger story and they are all mmos.
Again, story isn't something exclusive to RPGs and given the size of the two genres, mmos usually encompass a lot more. I think it's a copout to excuse the lack of content and story as this being not designed that way, especially given this game has a whole television show it's based on...
I'm pretty sure given the amount of story in a full season of a show that had been planned for FIVE years, they could have come up with a lot more content than this has right now... regardless of what genre anyways says this game is or isn't.
The game doesn't have to be the greatest MMORPG shooter game to ever exist,
But some patches that don't always break SOMETHING would be nice...
Why can we STILL NOT CHANGE OUT PVP OUTFIT!
Before launch Trion started pulling away from the mmo label n such and more commonly tried to call it simply a persistent world shooter. You can see this spiel even from the now former executive producer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fancypants
Source?Quote:
Originally Posted by theLimper
/stupid10charminimum
Maybe, if they had ever announced a release date for the dlc I'd feel as high and mighty as you do right now. I do remember they postponed STARTING work on it back after release. We were never given a release date so to say the dlc was postponed is idiotic. Now, I have no idea when this second delay was, but I'm assuming you are talking about after the 1.020 patch, again and let me emphasize this here WE NEVER GOT A RELEASE DATEQuote:
Originally Posted by KillAlot V2
My word you lot talk as if we've gone an entire year without word from trion QYB
Problem is MMO is taken by far too many people to mean the same as RPG. It is an MMO because there are lots of people playing online together. It is not an RPG unless you define all games as such (which actually is true). A football game can be described as role playing because you are not playing as yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguinesun
The thing is shooters are not specifically mean to be role playing games-this is evident by a lot of the complaints regarding EA and Dead Space 3 and the direction it seems that EA/Bioware are taking Mass Effect and any subsequent games made within its universe. Dark Space is an RPG, but it defies the moniker in many ways because it is an action RPG and its less about story (yes, there is one) and more about you playing sort of yourself and making your own story (living your life) in the game. Skyrim is an RPG but it is a story heavy one with combat and other mechanics subservient to stories and quests.
Any shooter could be sort of defined as an RPG but devs and fans don't label them that way because the implication of the term is that there will be lots of story. Shooters don't have that. Shooters have minimalistic stories/missions and then the shooter part takes over. You shoot things. And the game becomes about what you are doing-can you face the grind? Can you get that diamond skin for your weapon and reach level the 900th Prestige? The story in most games, even RPGs is really up to the player. In open world RPGs you can decide to do as little or as much as you want. Same here, same with any game. Getting all achievements/trophies is about how much you can force yourself to do. And it's also about how you decide to do it-the fun you can create for yourself.
When I was little we camped. My parents didn't fill every little void with excitement and entertainment. We were told to use our imaginations, but we did that naturally. We made up games and fun. It's possible and often more fun when you make up your own challenges.
April 8th(or actually was blogged on the day or so before that) by former Executive Producer of Defiance Nathan Richardsson(I highlighted the DLC information in Red):Quote:
Originally Posted by ItISLupus
So whilst not a specific date then, we were given the impression of by the end of april or the start of May. That time came and went and some thought(per more kited words) end of may. Then nothing for a while and the next kited time frame was July.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oveur
Now we're in the last 10ish days of July and they're talking of getting ptr up in the coming weeks and then to get for a short time the dlc on it to test for folks(twitch show from last friday). So yet again its seeming to be kited.
I agree that the story is short, and that in all the games you named the story is longest, but all this games are RPG, not only MMOs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fancypants
Now, MMO doesn't mean that the game need to have a story, it only means that it's online, guess what, last Simcity is a MMO (no kidding).
Truth. I think reality hit them with the lack of content in Defiance vs other mmos, and the lackluster gameplay vs other shooters like CoD/Halo, etc... so they just hodgepodged it in there realizing it wasn't good enough to call it one thing or the other, while pretending they didn't say it was like they did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguinesun
You see Trion did this same exact thing with their latest mmo, End of Nations:
Troubled MOBA End of Nations appears to be back on track
"On July 18 2013, it was announced that the game will be changed from a MMORTS to a MOBA due to feed back from alpha testing."
Same thing, couldn't cut the mustard as a RTS, so now they call it a "MOBA". ;)
That's not a knock on Trion, just reality where a business realizes it has to sell it's product anyway it can or it will go under, regardless of what it looks like vs the competition.
Stories are bigger in RPGs. This is not an RPG and never was it stated it would be one. MAG was an MMO for the PS3-it was strictly a CoD MP style shooter. It was stated it was a massive online combat game and not called an MMO a lot just so people wouldn't misunderstand. Shooters are not about the story. And the reason most shooters contain any kind of campaign at all is to act as large MP tutorials and to pay some lip service to players that want that. It's because these titles have been around a long time and it's not easy to just suddenly dump the story, but they would if they could.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fancypants
Those games you list are mostly MMORPGs. You really need to understand why you have problems with this game-it's your own lack of understanding about what it was stated it would be. It's like some company saying they're releasing a car racing game and you're upset it's not a basketball game. It was never stated that Defiance was going to be an RPG. MMO means Massive(ly) Multiplayer Online. That can mean as little as lots of people put together online to stand in one place and hop on one foot. Shooter means they will all shoot at something.
No, it isn't a mmo, lol. I'm not sure if you're kidding or not even though you said 'no kidding'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondin
The Sims is in no way shape or form a "MMO" other than there are people online playing it. If you are going to use that as the defining point when people are talking about mmoRPGs.. WoW, Rift, FFXIV, Everquest 2, DCUO, etc.. then it's cheap.
No one who is used to MMO gaming considers The Sims a 'mmo'. Poker is a mmo then. So is Farmville. But they aren't.
Sorry, but this constant stretching of 'what a mmo is' when it's CLEAR people are talking about MMORPGs is not honest. Please stop it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Echo
EVERYTHING is a mmo using your terms. Online Poker is too. But no one in their right minds discussing what we are playing could even confuse the two.
And no.. stories in MMOs (read here: typical mmos) are bigger than stories in MMOs (read here: console type games like Halo or CoD). I'm not sure which mmos (read here: typical mmos like WoW) you've been playing but just about everyone has stories bigger than mmos (read here: console type games).
The stories only seem bigger because it's just you playing the game, but very few are actually that long and can be done in one day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fancypants
This game is an MMO, it is not and never was going to be an MMORPG. It's because you didn't understand that that you're now just unhappy. And don't tell me that CoD is better--don't even go there. Black Ops 2 is a piece of crap with far more problems, more expensive DLC that is lackluster (oooh great let's pay more money for maps that are remakes of maps from other CoD games), lag, lag, lag, reset matches (constantly-no match ever completes without at least 2 resets), and much much more. Halo-that's an example of the Emperor's New Clothes. No one wants to say this God of All Games is less than perfect. Halo 1 and 2 were good, but since then the game has stagnated with no real awesomeness at all. MP maps are horrid and boring and graphically not interesting-wow, the work that went into them. I'm amazed. And, the game has devolved into hopping idiots that now creep into every game. Just wonderful. The only good thing about Halo games is Master Chief and Cortana. The rest is boring, rehashed stuff, short SP, and uninteresting MP. Glad you had some examples of really good games.
They never said Defiance would be an RPG-they could turn it into one if fans wanted it and if they wanted to, but it was always said it would be a shooter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fancypants
But in truth it is a knock on them. They expanded too much too fast and with the assumptions that they could leap frog the projects from the revenue of the other in perfect succession.
I get what they're doing though, they're looking switch from being soley a game developer and transitioning through partnerships with folks like Comcast(defiance) Time warner etc etc to eventually become a publishing platform for in house and other developer titles. The problem is in this business model, they're starting to mimic the activity of one of the Trion founders former employers EA(Canegham) and compromising quality for short term revenue hopscotch. Extremely high risk from my armchair view.
No, nice of you to imply I'm lying. As I said MMO is not synonymous with MMORPG so you need to stop it. Just because you want to force the issue into being something because you didn't understand this won't make it so. MMO only means that large numbers of people play online at the same time. Any stretching of this to include RPG has been done by you. There are other games out there that are MMOs and that are not RPGs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fancypants
No, poker is not an MMO and that's ridiculous. The idea is that in an MMO, large groups of people can be together doing things at once. The looseness of the interpretation is in what constitutes large. Poker games may lead to tournaments but at best there are few people playing together in one instance at one time. So, try again.
From Wikipedia:
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously.
AND:
MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres.
Here's the link since there are examples of other genres of games classified as MMOs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive...er_online_game
Not all MMOs include stories as I said was the case with MAG.
And here's one you might like, an MMO dance game:
http://www.mmobomb.com/review/5street
Unhappy? I think you misread. Please go back and find where that was said, otherwise you're starting to lose perspective by putting untrue things in there...you know, seeing what you WANT to see?Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Echo
I didn't say I thought CoD is better (which it probably is since I didn't see those sales tanking and Bungie laying off 80% of Halo's staff), I said TRION probably thinks it's better. Again, you with what you want to read.
That YOU think Halo is boring rehash is YOUR problem. Apparently hundreds of thousands of other people disagree and sales boom. Emperor's new clothes indeed:D
Your misunderstanding of what that article said is rather funny. The game was being developed by one company Petroglyph with Trion as the publisher and Petroglyp was flubbing it. Trion pulled it from them and switched developers and the game is now back on track as per the article and Trion. The devs working on it dropped the ball, so Trion put it into what they see as more capable hands and testers apparently are liking it. That's what was said. Time will tell if the game is good, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fancypants
You're still missing the point and SPIRIT of the discussion... MMOs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Echo
No one is talking about all the offshoots and mishmashes, at least this thread wasn't until you tried to confuddle them. We were talking about MMOs.. which anyone with half a brain understood to be WoW, Rift, .. really? I have to name them ALL again for you to get it?
You could be mistaken if you're not lying, but based on you saying things that you assumed (like how I feel, lol) probably a little of both.
And poker is a mmo by your definition earlier. It's Massively played. It's Multiplayer and it's Online.
That's not a misunderstanding, friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Echo
First, they announced the game was PLANNED as a MMORTS.. to be developed by another company, Petro. That's fact.
Petro 'flubbed', so you say, so Trion worked on it in house.
They saw what was there and said "This isn't a MMORTS and cannot compete with StarCraft or C n C so... hey, let's make it a MOBA now and we'll compete with LoL!" (which makes even less sense)
This is what they did with this game. Can't really compete with a "MMO" and can't really compete with a "Shooter" (see the difference?) so it's a now a psedo-dudebro... a failed attempt at both.
Here is your mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fancypants
MMO =/= MMORPG
I was talking about Simcity, not the Sims, it's different, and Simcity is a MMo, it's not me who say it, it's every review.
Oh something that I think I should point out as to how discombobulated the Defiance project is and how both sides have retcon'd things over time:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fancypants
While true(especially given concerns I think their side has over the game) listen to what Trion's CEO said before:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/04...-in-two-mediu/
Trion's words are coming back to continually haunt them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Massively article quote of Buttler
With regards to the "mmo" deal: Please, would you kindly, tell everyone what the letters M M O stand for for everyone, you know, just to be clear. :rolleyes:
Just in case anyone wants to know who to blame for the DLC not being out by the time that you assumed it would be out, I've compiled this chart*:
http://i.imgur.com/ZPEqvtv.png
*it has been brought to my attention that PS3 users have also been known to blame the PC, however I'm too lazy to add a red X when there are other troll pictures to be made.
Your statements indicate you are unhappy this isn't an RPG. You don't have to specifically state it-it's obvious. You keep stating the game is light on story content-that means you wanted a bigger story and that leads anyone with a brain to conclude you are unhappy it does not have one. Apparently I was supposed to wait for you to say, "I'm unhappy" or I could not infer what you implied.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fancypants
Your statements as to CoD and Halo, indicate also that you think Defiance is worse than them and that leads to the conclusion they must be better-and your statement here based solely upon what the masses can be hoodwinked into buying also indicates that. I've played both of those series ad nauseum and finally full nausea set in and my brain started wondering why. Just because millions of people won't follow what they know to be true (they don't want to appear uncool) and demand better from Activision and Bungie and all of the big companies that set the trends doesn't mean they're making good games. I'm saying they aren't and I have my own eyes and ears that tell me so.
As I said, I've played all games in the series mentioned. And I've never experienced the ear pain that the latest versions have caused. Black Ops 2 became so crippled an experience that people were constantly announcing they were rage quitting before doing so. And the glitching and other crap players pulled in those games only added icing to an already heavy cake of crap.
Mass consumerism and the willingness to buy what is offered is no great example of what's good. VHS/Beta. MS/Early Apple/Commodore. Current Apple/Anything else. I could go on. People gravitate towards shiny and if they bought some product from some dev before they assume the next thing will be good too. Once they buy the new one, they don't want to look like idiots when it's garbage-so they won't say that it is until someone else, a friend agrees.
I have yet to hear anyone disagree with me that Halo's MP maps are exciting and that the game is fresh and everything they hoped it would be, and worth the money paid for it. Halo repeatedly has the same foes. Halo 1 was good But there's been no innovation since then. But fans don't want to appear uncool and say it's not always that good. Some are stepping forward lately and do disagree with each other-some don't care for Halo 3 or Reach. Some don't like 4. Halo has lost some sheen. Black Ops 2 is far worse.
Every review says SimCity is a mmo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondin
Then that settles it! Watch out World of Warcraft!
Kidding aside, I know what 'mmo' means and I know how people refer to actual "MMO"s and what the textbook definition is. By textbook, everything is a mmo.
Like Wiki says:
Anyways, I think this has been long beaten to death and getting boring, so let's put it this way:Quote:
A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously.
By necessity, they are played on the Internet. Many games have at least one persistent world, however others just have large numbers of players competing at once in one form or another without any lasting effect to the world at all. These games can be played on any platform, be it the personal computer, a game console such as the internet capable PSP, PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, Nintendo DS, PS Vita, Wii U or Wii, or mobile devices and smartphones based on such operating systems as Android, iOS and Windows Phone.
MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres."
Regardless of what Trion called this game, regardless of what you/I/other dude thinks it is, regardless of what the industry thinks it is...
....based on sales, based on feedback, based on staff reductions, based on whatever 'classification' it is or Trion said it is, based on just about anything that has been considered 'normal', this game is failing.
Argue with that.
lol epic (and true)Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Blood
Then common sense should tell you you cannot claim it so. You only BELIEVE it to be so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Echo
I believe you to be a grade A fanboy and one of the players likely to be here to the end if this game shuts down.
Does that make it so even though you didn't say it?
For the record, as far as RPGs I want to play.. think FFXIV: ARR. Now even YOU couldn't confuse the two.