Just wondering if there any anti hacking software going to be added to this MMO ?
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Just wondering if there any anti hacking software going to be added to this MMO ?
uh? do we have hackers in this game?
They always try, but the hackers find way around it.. So community self policeing will be needed
Oh and I say cut off their index and pinky fingers :)
Security evolves during the game's lifetime. Be sure to report any hackers you do notice, with evidence, for those that make it past those safeguards.
During a livestream it was mentioned that they do have anti-hacking software. Naturally they won't say anything more than that it exists.
They probaly have anti hacking software, but i highly doubt they are going to announce anything about it. Because then counter measures can be delevolped much easier.
That true but true ill def report any suspicious behavour/speed hacks and etc
To answer your question on a very basic level; yes, Trion does have anti-cheat measures in place for Defiance.
However let's not glorify this. It is not “hacking” in any way, shape, or form; these people are purchasing programs from developers for money, then using them to cheat in-game. They are cheaters, plain and simple.
As for cheating itself, it's such a complex subject that you simply don't get to hear much about. The game developers are quiet because talking about it poses a risk to the cheat developers circumventing their protections. The more sophisticated cheat developers tend to hide behind pay walls that stop the general public from getting any information about their programs. Point being, it's kind of a misunderstood existence, but hopefully I can shed some light on it for the sake of general understanding.
Most “anti-cheat” systems in place actually don't work as well as you'd like to think. At a very basic level, they will stop any third-party software that's trying to hook into the game client by flagging the connecting account. This generally only stops very basic cheating programs, which tend to be the free ones. At a slightly higher level, you'll see anti-cheat systems that will flag accounts based on anomalies; anyone with a particularly high accuracy percentage, someone who moves too fast, someone who has a high percentage of headshots, et cetera. Beyond this, anti-cheat systems will have flags for any other applications the developers have identified as cheating software and stop it. However, this is often a game of cat-and-mouse between the game developers and cheat developers; the cheating software will change with every release, negating the anti-cheat flagging in place. There's obviously more sophisticated elements to it than this, but this is anti-cheat systems on a basic level.
Now, I'm sure there are some people asking why they just don't get access to the cheating software, figure out how it works, and stop it that way?
Well, to put it bluntly, you can't.
The way the more sophisticated cheating communities work is based on a seniority and “wave” system. What happens is that blocks of subscribers to the cheating service are placed into groups, a wave of people. There will be many of these waves of subscribers, and each group will get a different version of the cheating software. When someone from that wave is banned, or if the entire wave itself is caught cheating, then you know you have a mole in that particular wave. That mole is someone who works for the game developers usually, and they add a flag to the anti-cheat system to ban accounts who connect meeting certain criteria under that program. The other waves remain unaffected, since their version of the cheating software was not detected. If the mole cannot be detected, then they just keep making new waves of subscribers. Eventually the moles disappear, and waves become insulated to the point where you just won't even get a copy of their cheating software.
The only way you can stop these more sophisticated communities is by incredibly competent anti-cheat systems that look for certain behaviors these programs exhibit, or manual detection by a support team.
This is by its very nature a reactive process. The cheat program releases, and the game developers react to try and stop it. There are obviously proactive measures that can be taken, such as:
- Checking for anomalies in accuracy percentages.
- Not trusting the game client with anything. Player locations, ammunition counts, game variables, nothing.
- Only allowing the client to send control inputs. It should not be altering critical database information (scrip counts, items, et cetera).
More often than not the cheat developers will find ways to circumvent the protections. Some of the programs are pretty damn sophisticated too. One community I am aware of has a base program the developer users to hook into your computer's GPU and pulls textures directly from it for cheating purposes. It uses that texture information to aim at particular in-game objects, detect where players are, et cetera. On top of this, they have adjustable controls on their cheating programs; you can dictate how accurate you are by percentages, how quickly you acquire targets, how often you get headshots, and so on. Point being, these are very sophisticated programs that are not easy to detect.
The fact of the matter is that we'll probably never know how prevalent cheating will be. You probably won't hear much about bans either, most game developers do not utilize name and shame policies. We basically just have to continue demanding protection from cheaters as customers, and Trion will respond simply because it makes good business sense to stop it.
So yes, there's probably plenty of anti-cheat measures in place, but don't expect that to stop every cheater. They will happen, it's just a matter of how quickly and efficiently they are dealt with.
Thumb an index!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ThanatosPa
Fascinating post, Notturno. Thanks for the read.
Gets me to wondering if cheating was much of an issue in Rift. I didn't notice it back when I played, but I could've just been oblivious.
I'm pretty oblivious to most cheaters/hackers until someone says something, then I watch like creeper, waiting for the right time to kidna... Uh I mean report that cheater with solid hard evidence.
Thanks! I appreciate that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensu
Honestly, I'd peg it as an extremely small issue. Cheating is more prevalent in shooters because player skill plays an enormous factor in how effective you are. In RIFT, success is more about game knowledge and time investment. The only things you can really game in RIFT are botting for experience and gear. That's not really something you can do in instances or PVP for the most part, since human tactical decisions are often required to succeed in those areas. While AI could certainly accomplish some basic feats, I don't think it would do well against coordinated players in RIFT.
The only major cheating issue RIFT saw was a problem on Trion's end. There was a client vulnerability that allowed nefarious individuals to log into any account they wanted by altering a variable. That variable was an account ID; so by cycling through random numbers, your account could be compromised by no fault of your own. This was an on-going issue that resulted in many players losing access to their accounts for many weeks at release, and took a while to have their gear restored.
Despite the above issue, I don't really think cheating was a major issue in RIFT. There were bots for sure, but not a horrid amount. The bigger issues were related to gold farming and regular players abusing game systems, like AFKing in PVP. All those were fairly quickly dealt with by Trion, though.
I think a forced server-side reticle would be nice.
Im going to assume the same ant-cheat systems used in rift will be used in this game as well. However report those who cheat in any form if seen ( Glitches count people!)
Well hope that people report the hackers and keep em clean unlike most FPS games (APB etc)
It's a conspiracy >.> <.<Quote:
Originally Posted by Notturno
Please no, cause there will be people who report everyone who's better than them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThanatosPa
^ This.. People tend to blame hackers when they just play bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyqhical
Was playing a competitive pvp match in the past beta weekend. Someone in voice chat starts complaining about one his opponents saying he couldn't believe speed hacks were already in the game. The "speed hack" he was complaining about was someone using the Blur Ego Power which increases your speed by 50%. So ya...Quote:
Originally Posted by HansKisaragi
I never understood the mentality myself. Getting your name in the bright lights I suppose.
If a game has a lengthy grind to get a specific item and you accomplish it – there is a huge feeling of accomplishment – which was the whole point of playing the game to begin with.
If you change a few bits and get the same result – what was accomplished ?
I reckon cheaters are searching for a different mental achievement feeling – dunno. I guess beating the game via a hack has it's own thrill for some.
Case in point was when I had my two purple main weapons with 4 modes each – was a great OH YEAH moment which would not have been there had I gotten the weapons with 4 mod slots right out of the box instead of only one each. Nor would it have felt as good if I could type a script and hit Enter to 'get er done'.
Good post on the bot/hack methods NOTTURNO – never saw it put quite so plainly.
As far as people playing badly - I actually quit a guild once because of all the whine. Every time certain people got killed it was a hack, cheat, whatever. Never was it just bad form on their part. Got old heh heh.
You don't think losers do that already, happens all the time; if you suspect a cheat report it, but include detail so anyone checking the report can quickly discard the nonsense reports.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyqhical
I used to work for a volunteer group, we would track down hack sites, register, download their software and submit it to evenbalance (punkbuster) so that it could be analyzed and banned. There are a number of groups who report hack sites and their software to parent companies and third party vendors like evenbalance, but companies still need player cooperation to help catch cheats.
Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Broken Drum
These are just my own personal opinions, and feedback I've gathered from actual cheaters in another game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Broken Drum
A lot of cheaters aren't in it for the same sense of satisfaction a legitimate player gets. A legitimate player is in it for the reasons you said; we get a sense of accomplishment for achieving a high score, or beating other players in PvP. For the cheaters, they are in it for another reason; they are here to grief other players by making them miserable. It's not that they are incapable of playing without cheating programs, it's that it gives them satisfaction by ruining the experience for other players.
While I think it's safe to say that all of us have engaged in some sort of griefing behavior, cheaters are habitually doing this for hours upon hours. To me, it signals an anti-social behavior that probably stems from another issue in their life, and it shows a disregard for fairness and general morality. Now, to clarify, this is just pure speculation on my part, but I firmly believe cheaters suffer from some sort of mental defect that makes them want to engage in that sort of behavior. It just isn't a positive social behavior, it goes against common ideas of morality, and it doesn't have a long-term outlook on their presence within an online community.
Oh this is a fun one, “hacker hysteria” as I like to affectionately call it. All Points Bulletin is notorious for this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyqhical
Like I covered in my earlier post, there are a multitude of ways for cheaters to hide the fact they are cheating. They can change their accuracy percentages to a more reasonable number, tick a setting to allow for a random variable to stop every hit from being a headshot, and so on.
I think there's a clear distinction between the types of cheaters, the good cheaters and the bad cheaters. The bad cheaters are the ones who are blatantly obvious with their program usage, where they will wildly spin in every direction and pick off every enemy player in sight with immediate headshots. They are usually short lived thrill seekers who get dealt with fairly quick. You then have the “good” cheaters who are in this for the long haul; they are not obvious or blatant in their usage of cheating tools. They are ones who get a sense of satisfaction every time people accuse them of cheating, it's an ego boost that complements their anti-social behavior of griefing other players.
While you do have these kinds of players, you also have players who are just legitimately talented when it comes to shooters. This is where the “hacker hysteria” comes in; players know there are cheaters, so it's easier to dismiss a good player as a cheater than acknowledge them for being great. This leads to many false positives when it comes to community perceptions of players, an ultimately detrimental community effect where nobody is trusting in anyone's gameplay.
Merely the existence of cheating in one instance leads to a widespread behavior of accusing players. It's partly because people do not have faith in the legitimacy of players, which can come from a combination one of two sources. The first being that the player does not feel the developer is being faithful to them by eliminating the problems fast enough. The second being that the player just cannot admit defeat. Traditionally the accusatory types of players fall into the second category, where they simply need a reason for deflecting blame off of someone other than themselves for their own shortcomings. In a twisted way, the public accusations to compensate for your own shortcomings is worse than the cheating itself. It tarnishes two reputations, and plants a seed of doubt in many minds. It's more damaging to the community than any cheating spree.