Another reason players are leaving Defiance - horrible lockbox drop rates

This is not exactly new news, but the whole lockbox thing is the basic equivalent of getting kicked squarely in the balls. Over and over again. They have always been bad, but does it seem like they are even worse now?

Last night, after the mind numbing chore of putting together 72 keycodes, I bought the usual 3 T3 boxes I always get. Out of 9 items, 7 were green! Seriously? Why are green items even in these lockboxes in the first place? I don't expect an orange item every time of course, but you don't even see as many purples anymore.

After spending all weekend opening boxes, a clan mate of mine became so frustrated with this awful system that he resorted to buying a few T4's with bits - even though I told him he was crazy to do so. Of course, not even that gave him even a single orange item. He estimated he opened around 50 T3's and T4's and came up with zero orange items. He also seems to have lost interest in Defiance now, and told me he is tired of the grind for nothing and isn't coming back to play anymore. I bet this happens more than they think it does, I know I usually end up with a negative feeling after I play for several hours and can't grind out even a usuable purple item. I still come back, but I know a lot of my friends haven't.

Agreed.

GAWD on Teir 4 lockbox number 5 now with nothing but blues...

WTF!!!!!!!

I dont agree with you, i also only buy Tier 2 boxes.
I buyed alots of tier 3 at begin and got nothing better than purple.
Two weeks ago i started buying only tier 2 and got 4 oranges in 2 weeks and also got some good blue/green items.

What is wrong is the loot dropped by enemies that is very very low, i only got 2 purples from floor in 3.000 ego.

Even if you get an orange, its usually not even a good gun anyways. Last orange I got I broke down because I was so discusted by it, lol. The one before that, I straight up gave away for free to a clanmate. Run and Gun ROCKET LAUNCHER..... yeah cuz I am really plan on running full speed shooting one rocket at a time! Thank God for that increased accuracy! Seriously?! Oranges are over rated

IMO they should just release a sure-fire way of obtaining higher grade weapons but there should still be a large amount of time/effort required to do it. And it shouldn't be tied to keycodes, because keycodes really aren't that hard to get and people are trying to do the whole 3 T3 boxes VS the 1 T4 box to try and have a better chance at higher grade weapons. Maybe have it tied to a new weekly contract, and basically each week you compleate it you will get a loot box that gives at least one guaranteed purple + a high (let's say 30%) chance at an orange. Or if the lootbox only gives a single item, make it at least a guaranteed purple with a 50% chance at being an orange. Or make it a lootbox you have to purchase with new currency gained via daily/weekly contracts. Whatever. As long as there's a proper balance between time/effort and whatnot.

Or maybe they should just up the % chance on T4 boxes too so that it actually is more worthwhile to buy the single T4 boxes VS 3 T3 boxes. IE, give a 50% chance on a purple item or something and a 10-25% chance of an orange.

'cause that is pretty weak if the only way to really get the top-end weapons and such is via lockboxes. That's all too dependent on RNG and does not make for good endgame. Adding in a guaranteed method that takes longer than the normal lockbox accrual would be a nice alternative. Probably via some new type of weekly contracts where you can do either PvP or PvE stuff to obtain 'em.

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Originally Posted by Soren

IMO they should just release a sure-fire way of obtaining higher grade weapons but there should still be a large amount of time/effort required to do it. And it shouldn't be tied to keycodes, because keycodes really aren't that hard to get and people are trying to do the whole 3 T3 boxes VS the 1 T4 box to try and have a better chance at higher grade weapons. Maybe have it tied to a new weekly contract, and basically each week you compleate it you will get a loot box that gives at least one guaranteed purple + a high (let's say 30%) chance at an orange. Or if the lootbox only gives a single item, make it at least a guaranteed purple with a 50% chance at being an orange. Or make it a lootbox you have to purchase with new currency gained via daily/weekly contracts. Whatever. As long as there's a proper balance between time/effort and whatnot.

Or maybe they should just up the % chance on T4 boxes too so that it actually is more worthwhile to buy the single T4 boxes VS 3 T3 boxes. IE, give a 50% chance on a purple item or something and a 10-25% chance of an orange.

'cause that is pretty weak if the only way to really get the top-end weapons and such is via lockboxes. That's all too dependent on RNG and does not make for good endgame. Adding in a guaranteed method that takes longer than the normal lockbox accrual would be a nice alternative.

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I'd be happy if the rep venders you do contracts for at LEAST had a decent quality purple in their store and the junk mods that don't even exist in game were removed from the rep venders mod caches. Seriously now, how hard could that be? I don't think that's too much to ask.

i started playing this game with six other friends , i am the only one left still playing and its because im the only one who pulled any oranges from boxes , and they arent even what i wanted you can pull fifty oranges and not get your favorite gun and open 500 boxes to do it , the other people i see every two weeks on average and they wont be back for the dlc , and to tell you the truth ive opened 50 boxes in the last two weeks and got nothing im almost done too. some people have over 100 legendaries and others have none something is wrong with that

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Originally Posted by bigguy

i started playing this game with six other friends , i am the only one left still playing and its because im the only one who pulled any oranges from boxes , and they arent even what i wanted you can pull fifty oranges and not get your favorite gun and open 500 boxes to do it , the other people i see every two weeks on average and they wont be back for the dlc , and to tell you the truth ive opened 50 boxes in the last two weeks and got nothing im almost done too. some people have over 100 legendaries and others have none something is wrong with that

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I've pulled plenty of oranges, its just more of a matter of getting an orange thats of a decent quality thats a problem and the rare few I have that are decent have HORRIBLE bonus skills when maxed. My good bolt action sniper got a high hipfire crit bonus which I would have loved on literally ANYTHING ELSE but a a bolt action. A decent pump I recently maxed got a 30% damage bonus to freaking VEHICLES! Yeah.... thats real usefell. GRRRRRR!

I say screw the lock boxes, and revamp the co-op mission, extend it, and have a loot table for each boss. I hate to say it, but the mmorpg ilk has gotten it right all along. Why not have a instance with 5 bosses, each with a loot table, with the last boss dropping the legendary gear if cleared.

I've only ever gotten T2 lockboxes. I've gotten like 8 oranges from them. Never get T3 or T4. Only T2.

I do my best to stay positive on the forums because if I didn't like the game, I wouldn't/Shouldn't be on the forum, BUT I have to agree about the box rate and drop rate. .05% to 5% drop rate of an orange by "certain" enemies is really trash. And the lock boxes are a total waste. I only by mod boxes now in hopes of landing a good AR mod to sell so I can buy a Legendary weapon of my choice from the non stop brokers at arkfalls.

I've purchased over 250 boxes easily and have only seen 1 orange. That is crazy. Random is random but it's fun to win the prize once in a while.

If your leaving a game due to random drops then why were you playing a MMO in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Bar0n_5am3d1

If your leaving a game due to random drops then why were you playing a MMO in the first place?

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Exactly. Frustrating RNG systems is an MMO staple. lol
If you don't like it, you are TOTALLY playing the wrong genre.

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Originally Posted by Bar0n_5am3d1

If your leaving a game due to random drops then why were you playing a MMO in the first place?

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This! ^^^

/10chars

I have been playing since the game was released. I have opened many Tier 3 and a few Tier 4 boxes and have never gotten an orange item! At this point I really just want an orange item to unlock the achievement as I'm pretty happy with the loadouts I currently have set up!

Sorry but lol. Leave the game just because of some random items? О_о

I've been playing a little more than two weeks. During this time I got 6 orange items from purple locked boxes. Apparently, you just are not actively playing.

In any case, even if you have no luck with orange things, is it a reason to leave the game?

I agree that lockboxes are not a reliable way to get weapons/shields/grenades you want to use. Same reason why gambling is not a reliable way to earn money.

If you are interested in your play session always giving you at least a purple, then I suggest you visit each of the vendor stores every hour as at least one of them has a purple and a couple of them have a blue-mod. What they have stocked changes every hour so you can keep playing and just visiting these shops all day long for blues/purples.

Much of the stuff I have that I use are store bought or loot drop from killing the bigger enemies like Volge boss, Tankers, Hulkers, etc. The 4-5 oranges I have I either bought in trade or got in lockbox 3/4 but last one was over 2000 EGO ago.

The Oranges used to drop more earlier in the game life than they do now... now the lock boxes just kick you in the balls and laugh.

Even if you do get a purple or orange there is a large chance that it will only have one or two (if that) decent bonuses, and then you have to try and get a useful synergy with those as well. You have a better chance of getting a decent purple from major arkfalls.

Sadly, I aggree with the frustration. If I was actively grinding towards something other than a lotto chance it wouldn't feel so bad. I have oppened on average 4 tier 3 lockboxes a day for the last 2 weeks and got 1 orange in that time that I don't even like. Also in that time I was seeking a fragger with fire nano and didn't care about rarity. After 2 weeks I still couldn't find a fire fragger, some one was nice enough to just give me a blue one to use.

I like the idea of rep vendors carrying better items or maybe even rare lock boxes like the challenger specials.

Last weekend I got two orange weapons out of one T3 lockbox.

It even says 'random items' right in the description of the lockboxes.

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Originally Posted by Bar0n_5am3d1

If your leaving a game due to random drops then why were you playing a MMO in the first place?

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True story...

Lockboxes need to guarantee at least 1 item of the rarity assigned to the lockbox (i.e. T4 should guarantee at least 1 purple, T3 at least one blue, T2 at least one green).

The fact that they color coded the boxes in such a fashion is hella misleading and, IMO, underhanded.

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Originally Posted by Bar0n_5am3d1

If your leaving a game due to random drops then why were you playing a MMO in the first place?

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Recent trend in MMOs seems to be entirely based on RNG and winning the lottery.

Many other MMOs offer other ways to gain items rather than pure RNG so I will assume that reply was done in ignorance in not playing many MMOs.

In example in that game that rhymes with Cow, those devs decided to allow you to gain 'tokens' that can be saved up to out right buy the pieces you want if instance/raid bosses never drop what you are after. Still takes lots of time and effort compared to winning the lottery but at least it's there as an option.

Sure RNG is a factor in many MMOs but most offer visibly apparent pathways to a goal if RNG is being a pain in the kiester.

GW2 is another game that relies on heavy RNG when it comes to pre-cursors for legendaries but they have already said they have plans to address that issue and will offer an alternate way to gain them that is more visible. Like to note that you can get gear in GW2 through multiple ways and none of them are in CS 'lock boxes'. They are expanding their team and not firing them so I would safely assume this business model actually works.

Let's just say that RNG in 'bad' MMOs is result of micro transactions and greed. Spend considerable time and effort to earn rewards or simply out right buy it with RL money. Obviously, they rather us spend money...they are counting on it and designed the game that way. They nerfed the heck out of key gain rates already if you want proof.

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"Another reason players are leaving Defiance - horrible lockbox drop rates "

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Do people leave games because of horrible lockbox rates, or do they just stop buying gambling chest keys in the cash shops? I mean, if someone likes the game but is just trying to get better gear why would they quit that game because the gambling odds suck?

Probably should just stop pumping money into the cash shop like a moron or a child with their parent's credit card. (not meaning you)

I don't think ppl are not playing bc of not getting oranges from lock boxes.

For sure its a kick in the balls when its nothing but crap.

And it feels like this...
http://www.miscupload.com/upload/549...3337667773.gif




But when you do land those good oranges.

It feels like this...
http://www.miscupload.com/upload/669...7817124163.gif

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Originally Posted by ten4

Many other MMOs offer other ways to gain items rather than pure RNG

.................................................. .............................................
Sure RNG is a factor in many MMOs but most offer visibly apparent pathways to a goal if RNG is being a pain in the kiester.

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This is all I want. I wouldn't mind a grind towards weapons I want instead of the lotto that I just cant seem to win.

Like most people, I have had HORRIBLE luck with lock boxes. And I certainly wish I had more oranges considering the massive amount of time I've spent grinding for keys.

That said, it's sort of no bid deal. You don't NEED orange weapons... good purples will work just as well and you come across those pretty often. So it's not like the lack of oranges from Lock Boxes really effect the playability of the game. Oranges more than anything are just kind of nice to have.

There's a sound effect that plays in the Trion building every time someone buys a lockbox. When the boxes are added to the cart, you can hear shears humming in the background. When the 'buy' button is clicked, you can hear bleating.

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Originally Posted by ten4

Recent trend in MMOs seems to be entirely based on RNG and winning the lottery.

Many other MMOs offer other ways to gain items rather than pure RNG so I will assume that reply was done in ignorance in not playing many MMOs.

In example in that game that rhymes with Cow, those devs decided to allow you to gain 'tokens' that can be saved up to out right buy the pieces you want if instance/raid bosses never drop what you are after. Still takes lots of time and effort compared to winning the lottery but at least it's there as an option.

Sure RNG is a factor in many MMOs but most offer visibly apparent pathways to a goal if RNG is being a pain in the kiester.

GW2 is another game that relies on heavy RNG when it comes to pre-cursors for legendaries but they have already said they have plans to address that issue and will offer an alternate way to gain them that is more visible. Like to note that you can get gear in GW2 through multiple ways and none of them are in CS 'lock boxes'. They are expanding their team and not firing them so I would safely assume this business model actually works.

Let's just say that RNG in 'bad' MMOs is result of micro transactions and greed. Spend considerable time and effort to earn rewards or simply out right buy it with RL money. Obviously, they rather us spend money...they are counting on it and designed the game that way. They nerfed the heck out of key gain rates already if you want proof.

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and yet your the only one here who understands the problem.

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Originally Posted by Albion

This is not exactly new news, but the whole lockbox thing is the basic equivalent of getting kicked squarely in the balls. Over and over again. They have always been bad, but does it seem like they are even worse now?

Last night, after the mind numbing chore of putting together 72 keycodes, I bought the usual 3 T3 boxes I always get. Out of 9 items, 7 were green! Seriously? Why are green items even in these lockboxes in the first place? I don't expect an orange item every time of course, but you don't even see as many purples anymore.

After spending all weekend opening boxes, a clan mate of mine became so frustrated with this awful system that he resorted to buying a few T4's with bits - even though I told him he was crazy to do so. Of course, not even that gave him even a single orange item. He estimated he opened around 50 T3's and T4's and came up with zero orange items. He also seems to have lost interest in Defiance now, and told me he is tired of the grind for nothing and isn't coming back to play anymore. I bet this happens more than they think it does, I know I usually end up with a negative feeling after I play for several hours and can't grind out even a usuable purple item. I still come back, but I know a lot of my friends haven't.

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There is nothing worth getting anymore via lockboxes unless you are 4K plus in level. because the only reason I'd waste keys IS because I am over 4K or have maxed out my keys. The lockbox is a complete joke and little wonder few is purchasing them via bits.

https://lh4.ggpht.com/OPimUmkfzvLkNG...Hn5yfHy28=w300

Hey Apple!!!, it's a lottery!!!

I came second in a major arkfall leaderboard using a blue weapon, go figure. Don't really care if I get any supposed "Legendaries" and definitely won't be buying any bits. It's all relative to what people believe, or are led to believe, better tools do not make you a better worker, and that is the folly or most people in video games. Money can't buy skill, pfft...........kids today eh?

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Originally Posted by Elric1

There is nothing worth getting anymore via lockboxes unless you are 4K plus in level. because the only reason I'd waste keys IS because I am over 4K or have maxed out my keys. The lockbox is a complete joke and little wonder few is purchasing them via bits.

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Its funny you mention that, because my main toon is 4500+ and I don't like opening lockboxes with that toon because on the very rare chance that I should get something orange and want to trade/sell it, I am limited to a handful of other people. I started a second toon just to farm for oranges, at least that way if what you get isnt exactly what you want, it is more easily tradeable.

But on topic, i fully understand that you don't need legendary weapons to do well in this game. I even was fighting Volge last night with white weapons on my farming toon. But if you create a game that has orange weapons as the ultimate "prize", and then have no real way for players to earn those prizes except for scratch-off lottery tickets, it is poor game design that will frustrate many players to the point of them just giving up. I've seen it myself, and was hoping someone at Trion might acknowledge this poor system needs changing before its too late for the game.

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Originally Posted by Albion

I bought the usual 3 T3 boxes I always get.

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I've identified your problem. You can thank me when you have time. T4s only from now on and your luck will improve my friend.

Pro-Tip: max to 75 keys. buy a T3 first, then buy the T4.

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Originally Posted by Albion

you don't need legendary weapons to do well in this game.

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Exactly! And it's a good thing! I'll explain why. The determining factor should be the skill of the player, wise using of perks and EGO-powers. It will be a failure if incompetent player with orange weapons will conquer one and all! In addition, the price of orange weapons are inflated right now. Imagine what would happen if the success depends on the equipment?

I believe that Tryon did the right thing by making the player independent of the equipment, and dependent on personal skills.

Apparently teasing the dimwitted for posting cry-threads over their ongoing troubles with a RNG system is frowned upon. So in the wake of the recent frownie, allow me to ask those of you here with the QQ in your hearts....

What part of 'Random' in the Random Number Generator system is escaping your understanding?

No, seriously... What is getting hung up during the information evaluation process here?

*bangs on the wall for dramatic effect*

I can't fix something if I don't know what's broke!!!! !>.<!

http://i.imgur.com/q3bA7w1.png

Like others are saying, the few oranges I did get happened a long time ago. Does indeed feel like a rigged system and a sad ploy to get people to spend money.

To the OP's point, I know I don't feel like quitting yet because I still have missions to run but I no longer have fun opening lockboxes. It's more like 'eh I'm almost maxed out on keycodes again so I guess I'll throw away some script on a lockbox.'

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Originally Posted by Tyger

Apparently teasing the dimwitted for posting cry-threads over their ongoing troubles with a RNG system is frowned upon. So in the wake of the recent frownie, allow me to ask those of you here with the QQ in your hearts....

What part of 'Random' in the Random Number Generator system is escaping your understanding?

No, seriously... What is getting hung up during the information evaluation process here?

*bangs on the wall for dramatic effect*

I can't fix something if I don't know what's broke!!!! !>.<!

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Just kind of skimmed through this post (go figure, right?), but what I've come to see has not been "random," in its general form. When you program something with a RNG, you set a seed. You can duplicate this seed so that the "random" part won't ever be random beyond the first time... hence if I use a seed X to get a random number, say 8, I can potentially use the same seed and sequence to get the number 8 every time... that's not random, but programing wise, it looks that way.

Case in point, there was about 1 - 2 weeks time played where my girlfriend and I, who share a couch when we play, would farm up enough keys to each unlock 3 Tier 3s... Each and every time, we each got 3 greens followed by a blue. Now, if we each get that, every time, that's not random. The "seed" used to generate those results (when the server boots up, my guess) makes it a random GGGB combo, but after that, no more random.

I'm sure there are those others out there that have experienced this or something like it. Just sayin'... Merry Christmas though guys!

My friend (Gamertag: SS SpitRoast) has bought 80+ Tier 4's and 30+Tier 3's and still not got a legendary. I've bought about 20 Tier 3's and still not got a legendary. We are both ego 5000 by the way. Something is definitely up.

Maybe they have a RNG built into the seed that gets pulled during the initial RNG. Oh wow, I just thought of how lame that'd be to deal with.... XD