Anyone else feel Revive mechanics are killing games like this?

I mean, just everyone you see these dies...you get shot, your HP reaches 0...you can kill an enemy and auto-revive, or an Ally can come over and just hold E and Revive you. There is little penalty.

You can solo a boss because well, you can revive yourself. YOu can hold an item, that'll revive you.

I dunno, it's ok when only a certain class or ability that not everyone can instantly have can revive...but like Borderlands 2, Guild Wars 2...I just hate the "Oh, I got killed...but NOPE!" mechanic, and I just revive after killing an enemy or an ally can hold E and pick me up. IT takes away lot of the strategy play.

there is a cooldown timer on auto-revive. So, no.

wont kill the game, and self revive is on a timer 10-20ish minutes

Although i understand where you're coming from especially with the difficult level of most games these days i don't think the self revive is much of an issue. If there was going to be a change made to the system currently in place i'd have self revive as it is available only until a certain Ego Rating so as you progress the penalty of death is even steeper. That or as you become a higher level make the cool down longer & longer, etc.

However as it is i'm completely fine with, but if we wanted we could easily make it more difficult. Not a game breaking issue if an issue at all.

I think this is a bit of an exaggeration. I died all the time, multiple times due to cheap grenade launching enemies. If you are in a losing battle, chances are when you revive yourself, you're going to go down again anyways. Being able to resurrect other people fosters team work, which is a huge component in multiplayer games. With how cheap some of the enemies can be, and how you can die in a blink of an eye, a limited self resurrection helps keep the frustration at bay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by M00N

wont kill the game, and self revive is on a timer 10-20ish minutes

---

Hmm I thought it was 5...

Any subsequent deaths require you to 'extract' which takes you to the last extraction marker you passed (which can literally be on the opposite side of the game world!) and costs you scrip.

If you want to have a bit of random fun, try this on release, it's something that happened to me in the last Beta LOL

When you get your car, drive all the way southeast to the Bug and Chug. After you get there, use Quick Travel to go back to Mt. Tam at the E-rep camp, then do the same thing back to the Bug and Chug. Once you're back, run up the road, away from the Golden Gate Bridge, and kamikaze a group of hellbugs or raiders. Be sure to stay away from any extraction markers in the process. When you extract, you'll end up back at the E-rep camp, because the closest marker to the Bug and Chug is actually a few dozen yards further to the southeast near the bridge, so you don't save at this location when you get there.

I'm not sure how the cash cost for extraction is going to work. I've seen it as little as a few hundred scrip regardless of level or bank account, and at another point it was a flat 5% of your available scrip when used, which had the potential to cost you literally tens of thousands of scrip when on some of the harder missions. I suppose we're just going to have to wait until Tuesday to see what they put in place for release.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mkilbride

You can solo a boss because well, you can revive yourself. YOu can hold an item, that'll revive you.

---

If you are soloing a boss, it's not because you can revive yourself once every 5 minutes... it's because you understand the mechanics of the game and how best to use them to your advantage.

I do wish the extract penalty was a bit more steep, though... 150 scrip here and there isn't going to encourage people to stop being bad/lazy. I'll just have to take solace in their inability to solo anything beyond an elite mob.

Could be 5min :P just know that i used it and then i couldnt and later on when i died again in beta i could! :) thats why i wrote the -ish! :)

Anyways i dont feel like reviving will be gamebreaking in any way as when i PvE its about me and my group and my/their progression. So if i can revive (as many people just run by people dead on the ground and wont throw a friendly revive their way) it dosent affect anyone else but me that i could revive.

But sure i dont know how it works in PvP but i really cant think that people can use self revive that WOULD be a little silly! But then again if people PvPing can do it.. well everyone can so it kinda solves itself :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by M00N

But sure i dont know how it works in PvP but i really cant think that people can use self revive that WOULD be a little silly! But then again if people PvPing can do it.. well everyone can so it kinda solves itself :D

---

In PvP, dead is dead is dead. No revives.

Great! :)

Then really cant see why self revive would be a bad idea! :D Onwards to questing and more fun! :)

I dunno. Seems to remove all challenge. Like you don't really have to try, someone will just revive you.

I don't like time sinks. I can't feel more cheated than when a gaming co makes mechanics that are specifically designed to slow the game pace down to extend the filler or no value content. I have no problem with risk v reward I just hate time sinks.

So I don't want to waste time with an extraneous run to get my corpse, items, or whatever just to keep me busy for an extra 2-5 minutes out of every death. I wanna get up curse pay my fines in whatever form it is and jump back on the horse and kick its hindside.

The golden diapered baby Jesus battle ressed today. Grats bro. I got free candy to celebrate his hacks.

I don't think the revive mechanic is a problem. Games with stiff death penalties are usually significantly less popular than games without. The most popular games on the market have little or no penalty. It's the same really as receiving a raise or corpse running.
I can't imagine why anyone considers this an issue at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RelativeBlue

I don't think the revive mechanic is a problem. Games with stiff death penalties are usually significantly less popular than games without. The most popular games on the market have little or no penalty. It's the same really as receiving a raise or corpse running.
I can't imagine why anyone considers this an issue at all.

---

It all depends on the player. Some people -- most anymore, I'd wager -- don't want to spend time just mucking about, running back to their corpse, having to retrace all their progress so far... they just want to get right back into the action, because the action is what they want.

So a lot of newer games cater to that player, because that's what a large number of gamers want anymore. Much like how f2p/cash shop models are becoming more popular, and fewer subscription-only games are coming out; they are becoming more popular because more people are asking for them.

So, to the OP, no, Revive mechanics and the like aren't killing "games like these" because "these games" aren't designed with that sort of penalty in mind to begin with. The era of harsh penalty games -- in all their permutations -- is largely over, and it's a very narrow subsection of the gaming population anymore that still prefer those, which is why you are seeing fewer and fewer of them made.

Oh, OP -- you may wish to keep an eye on the Pathfinder Online MMO, currently in development... it looks like it's shaping up to have a lot more "old school" mechanics in it than expected for a new MMO these days.

personally, from when I played on the beta weekend, I have to say a definitive "no" it's not too easy.

That one mission where you're hacking the radio tower? Jesus wept, that was almost unnecessarily difficult... kept dieing over and over and over and over and over again. The sheer frustration factor was more than enough punishment, the fact that the game didn't force me to restart the mission but that I could actually manage to fight my way back to the NPC girl, rez her, and complete the mission, was a god send.

The multiplayer I'm addicted to right now is...Mass Effect 3. So thinking about the revive in Defiance vs medi-gels/teamate revives, I think it'll be just fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fascion

In PvP, dead is dead is dead. No revives.

---

and that is all that matters to me.

im glad its in pve.
and im glad its not in pvp.

however like 15% of the perk tree is useless in pvp as a result lol
still, at least this isnt firefall, **** firefall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hetros

personally, from when I played on the beta weekend, I have to say a definitive "no" it's not too easy.

That one mission where you're hacking the radio tower? Jesus wept, that was almost unnecessarily difficult... kept dieing over and over and over and over and over again. The sheer frustration factor was more than enough punishment, the fact that the game didn't force me to restart the mission but that I could actually manage to fight my way back to the NPC girl, rez her, and complete the mission, was a god send.

---

dude how bout protecting those two engineers?

i must have died like 20 times

didn't die in any other mission though, lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RawrKitty

dude how bout protecting those two engineers?

i must have died like 20 times

---

I just ran outside and let all the enemies come to me/ran around the compound. When I finished off a wave, I'd run back in and revive what's her face. She'd get a bit further or tell me to do something else, then more enemies would be pooped out by helis and hatches. I repeated the process three or four times and that was it. No problem!

Holding down the fort would be a lot tougher. When I saw the volume of enemies being thrown at me I basically went nope nope nope. If it suits your fancy try the strategy I mentioned when you get the game and you should find it much, much easier.

Unless, of course, Trion makes it so your story NPC can actually die/you can fail the mission and have to repeat it if you don't REALLY defend her.

I remember how much I truly hated dying in Lineage 2 or City of Heros. Not that its on topic, thats just what this thread is making me think of. Loseing xp and sometimes deleveling or xp stalls because of dying. *shudder*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moose Of Woe

I just ran outside and let all the enemies come to me/ran around the compound. When I finished off a wave, I'd run back in and revive what's her face. .

---

Kinda what i did except i got in my truck and ran everything over Lol

Reviving another person actually adds a little bit more nice social aspect to the game.. In GW2 in Orr region I could kiss people's feet for rezzing me during a particularly long run for example..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shawnchapp

Kinda what i did except i got in my truck and ran everything over Lol

---

lol also works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moose Of Woe

lol also works.

---

Lol sure does, If anything needs work its not the revive system its the fact you can spawn cars anywhere thats just annoying at arkfalls.

I think it just makes things funner staying in the action an not spending 15 minutes just trying to get back to the action just to have an accident when you get there :P

At the arkfalls etc - it is not really a revive in the sense that you Died. You are Incapacitated. You can actually slow crawl out from under all the melee until someone sees you squirming in the open for a fast lift.

Worked for me a few times - get to somewhere people can See you down there.

Its great, adds more fun to the game.

I dont want to be mad at dying because i have to run 5min back to where i was all the time.
For me its just annoying enough to make me want to stay alive mostly because i absolutely hate losing money, and this game charges you when you die.

On that not I started a second play through of borderlands, was trying to get to 1mill credits for the steam achievement, I was so close like 999,970 or something, and i got a place and died a bunch of times dropped down to 400k, got so ****ing mad havnt touched the game since and probably never will lol

I wanted a more strict death penalty. :/ I feel like it's too casual.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JustAHermit

I wanted a more strict death penalty. :/ I feel like it's too casual.

---

I agree, but this is more of a TPS than traditional MMO. Personally I think the penalty could be a bit less zerg-promoting. Making you run back from camp, instead of those checkpoints every 10 meters, would be a nice deterrent to just mindlessly zerg all the time.

But I doubt they are going to change it and I feel it's not a game-breaker or anything.

Yeah...

To make the money penalty worth it then, they should make it 15% of your money, not a set amount.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mkilbride

Yeah...

To make the money penalty worth it then, they should make it 15% of your money, not a set amount.

---

yeah OMG thats a freaking good idea...... *sarcasm*

worst suggestion ive ever read on a forum... :)

@ the OP: No. Feel free to show the world how badass you are by never using it.

I thought the self-revive is a fantastic idea. It keeps the game flowing so much better, yet the cool-down prevents it being a crutch. It's more like it's there for those occasions where you maybe waded in too quickly, and get another chance to do it right.

Being able to revive others is a great one too, as it makes keeping relatively close more strategically sound than splitting up completely. It encourages you to act as a more cohesive fighting force, with you and allies helping each other out when in need to keep the fight going! This is especially handy on larger enemies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JustAHermit

I wanted a more strict death penalty. :/ I feel like it's too casual.

---

Welcome to Gaming. WoW was the last "Hardcore" MMO out there prior to Burning Crusade. Since then every game has taken a more casual approach.

Honestly you have to pay to Revive when you've been killed and used your Self revive, not everyone is playing in a group and not everyone will revive you so who cares? Its the little things that don't matter people seem to be moaning about.

If you were in an Open World PvP I could understand, but 99.9% (Meaning 100%) is PvE based from looking at the Beta's "Open World" meaning the only time you would have to care about this would be in PvP which it is removed.

PvE - There are no Healers, No Tanks, and no "DPS" Roles, its just a basic free for all with one healing gun. Its done the right way for the design of the game. Remember - This is not a Conventional MMO.

Don't Like it? Don't use it. But honestly for me during the beta it never got to the point that I needed to use the Self-Revive. Learn to Dodge and you wont have to see the screen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quirky

Welcome to Gaming. WoW was the last "Hardcore" MMO out there prior to Burning Crusade. Since then every game has taken a more casual approach.

---

wat?

wow was the most casual friendly/hand holdy mmo on the market when it came out.


endgame raiding in vanilla was some of the most soul crushing content ever at that point, but most of the game was very friendly to people with less than 2 hours a night to play compared to other games in terms of progression per session.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dirtyklingon

wat?

wow was the most casual friendly/hand holdy mmo on the market when it came out.


endgame raiding in vanilla was some of the most soul crushing content ever at that point, but most of the game was very friendly to people with less than 2 hours a night to play compared to other games in terms of progression per session.

---

I think you Missed what I said. PRIOR to Burning Crusade which yes, Vanilla. 40 Man Content actually took some organising compared to modern day WoW / 20 Man "Instances".

The Game itself may have been quite friendly yes, but you had to work to get anywhere End-Game.

All I can say is I spent a good heap of time Hardcore PvEing in Vanilla and nothing else can compare to the experiences myself and other people I know had back then.

Since then Raids have been condensed down to less and less people (10 People seems a bit of a joke) and its been made so easy for the most casual player putting in only a few hours a night. Unlike a good couple of hours and 15 people In Scholomance / Stratholme for a 1/3 chance of getting a Blue Item. Not some Easy Epic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quirky

I think you Missed what I said. PRIOR to Burning Crusade which yes, Vanilla. 40 Man Content actually took some organising compared to modern day WoW / 20 Man "Instances".

The Game itself may have been quite friendly yes, but you had to work to get anywhere End-Game.

All I can say is I spent a good heap of time Hardcore PvEing in Vanilla and nothing else can compare to the experiences myself and other people I know had back then.

Since then Raids have been condensed down to less and less people (10 People seems a bit of a joke) and its been made so easy for the most casual player putting in only a few hours a night. Unlike a good couple of hours and 15 people In Scholomance / Stratholme for a 1/3 chance of getting a Blue Item. Not some Easy Epic.

---

Totaly agree, games (mmo's) has been dumbed down to far by most game companies that its just to easy and isnt worth playing anymore, to get satisfaction games MUST be hard! if they are easy why even play in the first instance? Like playing hardmode (imput X game here) and your done with it in less than a day, maybe two? Whats the fun with that? Games need to be damn super hard to get the adrenalin pumping and the pressure building up to the point when you actually complete it its with a HIGH sence of purpose and achivment!

Feel free to prove yourself hardcore and delete a character when you die, guys.

tbc raid content was actually alot harder than vanilla content.

vanilla raiding was soul crushing because of hte level of inaccessibility to it and how boring the endless trash in raids were.


vanilla raids were something like 80% trash 20% boss attempts.