Attn Developers: Please expain limited use grenades. Will we lose our Orange Grenades

I was actually going to say something Saturday about all the bumping. C.o.C. says clearly that you cannot bump. I'm not trying to sound ****ish, but I am not really surprised about you receiving an infraction.

Just post something on topic that isn't a straight 'bump for x reason' if you want to keep a topic at the top of the page.


It's not like it was one of the most family traveled holiday weekends of the year in the states, with many people taking Friday off to make it a four day weekend, so they really should have answered it right away.

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Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

Only one person did a bump from what I can see. GS Wraith was just trying to speak to things more with what he subsequently wrote. I certainly didnt take it to be spamming. O.o

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There's been close to twenty-something bumps on this thread. I haven't actually gone to count them all, but there are a lot.

=(

Don't be the bad guys Trion! This is only shooting yourself in the foot v.v

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Originally Posted by WARDUKE

I was actually going to say something Saturday about all the bumping. C.o.C. says clearly that you cannot bump. I'm not trying to sound ****ish, but I am not really surprised about you receiving an infraction.

Just post something on topic that isn't a straight 'bump for x reason' if you want to keep a topic at the top of the page.


It's not like it was one of the most family traveled holiday weekends of the year in the states, with many people taking Friday off to make it a four day weekend, so they really should have answered it right away.

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He didnt bump warduke, the poster Bonehead did, though is the point being made.

Hey guys -

Please simmer down on the mod talk (and let's keep the conversation on topic.) That might mean you don't say anything for a bit but Trick isn't one to ignore answers and this one isn't something that's going to change tomorrow - please give him some time.

If you want me to leave per your warning emails, then fine, I will leave. I will trade in my game tomorrow. I am in founder status for a clan that has 6000 members and I will be sure to tell everyone there this tale. All I did was start a thread with concerns about upcoming changes in the game. I have played this game since day 1, reached level 5000, reached level 20 in all weapon and vehicle skills, and still continued to play. I have recruited other players for this game and helped new people to get started in this game. I was even going to tell you I liked your dachshund in the picture since I had some while I was growing up as a child. But apparently, you do not want me here, so I will leave. I will miss the rest of you. This has been my first MMO and I have really enjoyed the social aspect of it. Have Fun and Enjoy. Ed

in other words we are supposed to stop discussing this and let the thread get washed away in the tides. That way when an answer is finaly given no one gets to see it or disagree with it.

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Originally Posted by GS Wraith

If you want me to leave per your warning emails, then fine, I will leave. I will trade in my game tomorrow. I am in founder status for a clan that has 6000 members and I will be sure to tell everyone there this tale. All I did was start a thread with concerns about upcoming changes in the game. I have played this game since day 1, reached level 5000, reached level 20 in all weapon and vehicle skills, and still continued to play. I have recruited other players for this game and helped new people to get started in this game. I was even going to tell you I liked your dachshund in the picture since I had some while I was growing up as a child. But apparently, you do not want me here, so I will leave. I will miss the rest of you. This has been my first MMO and I have really enjoyed the social aspect of it. Have Fun and Enjoy. Ed

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Sorry they ran you off man. And for whats its worth imo this was a legitimate topic being discussed. But evidently we arnt supposed to discuss things past the initial question part of it.

We are just supposed to play and be mindless drones that has no opinions on things until they tell us what they are.

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Originally Posted by Wraieth

in other words we are supposed to stop discussing this and let the thread get washed away in the tides. That way when an answer is finaly given no one gets to see it or disagree with it.

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Trick's not that kind of guy. He'll answer you - I know he was quite busy today. :)

This is really sad. I am already in a somber mood today as 3 good friends have come to me in game and told me goodbye as they were leaving the game today, not for these reasons but for others. I, like many others on here, find a core mechanic changing update a little unsettling, especially with the vagueness as to how it was presented. Then again, I am from the old school of thought that if it isn't broke don't fix it, and if it is broke, get it fixed.

This thread exists because many of us love Defiance and are worried about its future. We want the game to succeed, but every day we wonder more and more if that is also Trion's goal? If we don't talk about a problem, does it really go away? It may. Case in point, I addressed an issue for quite some time about legendary BMGs having the same amount of rolls as an epic. We got some BS answer, and we addressed it more. Finally we got an answer stating that the team is looking into it, and we dropped the question from our minds. Fast forward to DLC1 and there still was no resolution about it. In fact, it is now more obvious that the BMGs are missing a roll because now the rolls are color coordinated. Guess which legendary weapons do not have an orange roll? BMGs. Also, I and many others stressed our dislike about removing the red scope from the game. This was ignored, and removed.... and it suffered a backlash from other players who did not like this change as well. Where are all the high ego retention implementations that we were told that we would receive also?

Is this what is going to happen here? again? Changing something that the players aren't agreeing with, or not seeing it as important enough to swiftly quell the growing fury of impatience that Defi players are experiencing? Is it something that the devs hope to just go away, then implement it anyway? What if we do lose grenades when they are gone? If they don't disappear, how will adding more drops for grenade ammo help the stability of this game?

I think that is an important question, as do many others. Now, we the people who love defiance (whether we have been here since day one or just picked up the game a week ago) have to fear suffering an infraction because we view something as very important and want to know about it? I mean, c'mon, really?

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Originally Posted by JxSiN

This is really sad. I am already in a somber mood today as 3 good friends have come to me in game and told me goodbye as they were leaving the game today, not for these reasons but for others. I, like many others on here, find a core mechanic changing update a little unsettling, especially with the vagueness as to how it was presented. Then again, I am from the old school of thought that if it isn't broke don't fix it, and if it is broke, get it fixed.

This thread exists because many of us love Defiance and are worried about its future. We want the game to succeed, but every day we wonder more and more if that is also Trion's goal? If we don't talk about a problem, does it really go away? It may. Case in point, I addressed an issue for quite some time about legendary BMGs having the same amount of rolls as an epic. We got some BS answer, and we addressed it more. Finally we got an answer stating that the team is looking into it, and we dropped the question from our minds. Fast forward to DLC1 and there still was no resolution about it. In fact, it is now more obvious that the BMGs are missing a roll because now the rolls are color coordinated. Guess which legendary weapons do not have an orange roll? BMGs. Also, I and many others stressed our dislike about removing the red scope from the game. This was ignored, and removed.... and it suffered a backlash from other players who did not like this change as well. Where are all the high ego retention implementations that we were told that we would receive also?

Is this what is going to happen here? again? Changing something that the players aren't agreeing with, or not seeing it as important enough to swiftly quell the growing fury of impatience that Defi players are experiencing? Is it something that the devs hope to just go away, then implement it anyway? What if we do lose grenades when they are gone? If they don't disappear, how will adding more drops for grenade ammo help the stability of this game?

I think that is an important question, as do many others. Now, we the people who love defiance (whether we have been here since day one or just picked up the game a week ago) have to fear suffering an infraction because we view something as very important and want to know about it? I mean, c'mon, really?

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Well said.. And hella friendlier than I would like to be ..

Wow. Just Wow....

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Originally Posted by GS Wraith

If you want me to leave per your warning emails, then fine, I will leave. I will trade in my game tomorrow. I am in founder status for a clan that has 6000 members and I will be sure to tell everyone there this tale. All I did was start a thread with concerns about upcoming changes in the game. I have played this game since day 1, reached level 5000, reached level 20 in all weapon and vehicle skills, and still continued to play. I have recruited other players for this game and helped new people to get started in this game. I was even going to tell you I liked your dachshund in the picture since I had some while I was growing up as a child. But apparently, you do not want me here, so I will leave. I will miss the rest of you. This has been my first MMO and I have really enjoyed the social aspect of it. Have Fun and Enjoy. Ed

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Ack, not what I wanted to see. Anyone who's played in game with GS Wraith knows he's a great guy and not the kind of people you want to run off.

Regardless, I still wait for official word on the grenade mechanics from Trick. I understand regular business hours and don't expect to see anything for at least 10 hours, probably later if a team meeting is required prior to posting anything official.

In the future I suggest choosing what is said during announcements more carefully.

personally i don't use grenades that much so this not that high in my list of things that piss me off in this game.
Still it makes me wonder why with so many bugged, not working properly, missing features, poor UI, abysmal "much improved" chat system, ridiculous game optimization etc... why waste dev time and effort changing something that was not broken, wasn't complained about and was working perfectly fine.

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Originally Posted by skepticck

personally i don't use grenades that much so this not that high in my list of things that piss me off in this game.
Still it makes me wonder why with so many bugged, not working properly, missing features, poor UI, abysmal "much improved" chat system, ridiculous game optimization etc... why waste dev time and effort changing something that was not broken, wasn't complained about and was working perfectly fine.

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Hella good question imho

How could you not be ready to answer questions. You get everone revved up by mentioning a game changing change to combat. So we wait and we watch and you drop a vague bomb (or grenade) on us, then are not ready answer questions. How could you not know this would happen and be ready for it. The moment it was shown there should have been a post planed and ready to go with more details. Once again Tiron has dropped the ball and the player are the ones that are paying the price.......

I don't really use them enough either, but I think the current system is wasted. It really should be like Borderlands. Grenade capacity makes sense. Get rid of the timer and give us ammo pick ups, that's fine. What needs to be added is Grenade Modifications, just like our guns. Give us higher rarity grenades that have added slots, and let us build them how we like. Keep the base grenade equip, and give us a maximum capacity based either on Ego level or Grenade rarity.

It's a much more common sense approach. Why do our grenades regenerate to begin with? What voodoo science is behind my utility belt creating grenades from thin air, yet still requires me to pick up BULLETS.

Folks, Dahanese has posted in this thread three times now to say that Trick will answer these concerns when he can get time. She has also asked us to please stop spamming this thread. It's just a guess on my part (but I have worked in Community Management in the past) that people who continue to spam will receive warnings and infractions.

What point are you hoping to make by continuing to spam?

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Originally Posted by MacDeath

What point are you hoping to make by continuing to spam?

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That wasn't ironic.

We are discussing the pros and cons of various ideas and changes to the grenade system, in response to the original poster's questions. We are allowed to do that amongst ourselves. What needs to stop is the slamming of Moderators and Trion, and *bumps*.

Otherwise as soon as this is locked another thread discussing "Grenadegate" will start right up. At least one, probably more.

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Originally Posted by Frozen

We are discussing the pros and cons of various ideas and changes to the grenade system, in response to the original poster's questions. We are allowed to do that amongst ourselves. What needs to stop is the slamming of Moderators and Trion, and *bumps*.

Otherwise as soon as this is locked another thread discussing "Grenadegate" will start right up. At least one, probably more.

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Ah, so it's a test to see if Trion really means it? Carry on then.

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Originally Posted by MacDeath

Folks, Dahanese has posted in this thread three times now to say that Trick will answer these concerns when he can get time. She has also asked us to please stop spamming this thread. It's just a guess on my part (but I have worked in Community Management in the past) that people who continue to spam will receive warnings and infractions.

What point are you hoping to make by continuing to spam?

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I guess the same point you attempted to make by your.
Two faced posts about the trouble at trion is bad for defiance followed by the post where you say this can be a good thing then go on to mention some story about another company being bought out during troubled times. Then come here standing up for the devs. Then make other posts about how lack of communication is hurting.

You sir are one of the most flip flop person on these forums. One post your bashing the game and its flaws. Next your attempting to get a job at trion.

You sir need to pick a personality and stick to it.

Personal attacks on others, no matter how true, are against the CoC and have no place in this thread or any other. The topic here is Grenades, and what improvements can be made. So far out of all the arguing I'm seeing very few, such as myself, offering actual mechanics to a systematic upgrade. Let's try to get back on topic if we can :)

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Originally Posted by Frozen

Personal attacks on others, no matter how true, are against the CoC and have no place in this thread or any other. The topic here is Grenades, and what improvements can be made. So far out of all the arguing I'm seeing very few, such as myself, offering actual mechanics to a systematic upgrade. Let's try to get back on topic if we can :)

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This thread went off topic pages ago, I'm surprised it even lasted this long without it being closed. Anything substantial is basically on the front page.

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Originally Posted by Frozen

Personal attacks on others, no matter how true, are against the CoC and have no place in this thread or any other. The topic here is Grenades, and what improvements can be made. So far out of all the arguing I'm seeing very few, such as myself, offering actual mechanics to a systematic upgrade. Let's try to get back on topic if we can :)

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Sorry just annoyed with this blowhard.
Meh ban me wont be the first time. Wont keep me from coming back. Bans here are a joke.

27 pages of "Save Charlie" is cool tho.

I'd like to hear everyone's actual mechanics to a better system. They stickied the UI discussion thread, and the UI problems haven't garnered half the fear and outrage Grenadegate has. I'm sure another couple days and we will have a Grenade one up too.

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Originally Posted by Frozen

27 pages of "Save Charlie" is cool tho.

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Save Charlie never went off topic!

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Originally Posted by dahanese

Please stop bumping this thread. Trick will get to it - until then you guys are spamming - please don't.

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Originally Posted by dahanese

Hey guys -

Please simmer down on the mod talk (and let's keep the conversation on topic.) That might mean you don't say anything for a bit but Trick isn't one to ignore answers and this one isn't something that's going to change tomorrow - please give him some time.

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Let me get this straight...

You don't feel the announcement that "gamechanging information" being announced on the PAX twitch stream was important enough for the community members to bother keeping in the public eye and expected us to bump it instead of having a member of the mod team sticky the announcement...

But when the community does do what is required to keep a thread (directly related to that "gamechanging information" announcement we were supposed to be advertising for you, mind you) prominent in the forums, now it's spamming and infractionable?

Your first reply when people asked about stickying Greg's announcement about PAX was *****y, but I didn't call you out on it until you took it straight to asinine here and now.

I cannot describe how I feel currently. Stunned? Appalled?
Congratulations, you've successfully managed to completely turn off the filter between my brain and my keyboard, something not even the extreme stupidity, hypocrisy, and outright lies from EA was able to accomplish. :cool:

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Originally Posted by melkathi

Save Charlie never went off topic!

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Nope, even my smart remarks stayed Charlie themed! :)

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Originally Posted by Grymms

I guess the same point you attempted to make by your.
Two faced posts about the trouble at trion is bad for defiance followed by the post where you say this can be a good thing then go on to mention some story about another company being bought out during troubled times. Then come here standing up for the devs. Then make other posts about how lack of communication is hurting.

You sir are one of the most flip flop person on these forums. One post your bashing the game and its flaws. Next your attempting to get a job at trion.

You sir need to pick a personality and stick to it.

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Well, here's the deal with my posting history, I'm not automatically in support of or automatically opposed to every action Trion takes. I think they do somethings right and somethings wrong.

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Originally Posted by Xaearth

Let me get this straight...

You don't feel the announcement that "gamechanging information" being announced on the PAX twitch stream was important enough for the community members to bother keeping in the public eye and expected us to bump it instead of having a member of the mod team sticky the announcement...

But when the community does do what is required to keep a thread (directly related to that "gamechanging information" announcement we were supposed to be advertising for you, mind you) prominent in the forums, now it's spamming and infractionable?

Your first reply when people asked about stickying Greg's announcement about PAX was *****y, but I didn't call you out on it until you took it straight to asinine here and now.

I cannot describe how I feel currently. Stunned? Appalled?
Congratulations, you've successfully managed to completely turn off the filter between my brain and my keyboard, something not even the extreme stupidity, hypocrisy, and outright lies from EA was able to accomplish. :cool:

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Well said. I agree with this and it is good to know that the community is starting to see the same.

So since this thread is not needed to keep this on the devs' plate - I'd like to know about a couple things that we Defiance gamers just gave up making threads about:

-- Are Coop Arenas coming as you said?

-- How about fixing the missing mastery roll on weapons?

-- Are you fixing the 3 Stat "Legendary" BMGs?

-- Are you fixing the the fire rate rolls on Sawed Offs leftover from removing Mag bonuses from them?

Those are just a few off the top of my head...I'm sure there are more.

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Originally Posted by MacDeath

Well, here's the deal with my posting history, I'm not automatically in support of or automatically opposed to every action Trion takes. I think they do somethings right and somethings wrong.

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I agree and that's why I took time (as I'm sure some others did) in thinking about this one and what it might mean.

My questions ranged from the obvious of why--why do this and present it as some sort of cool new mode in the DLC teaser when things that matter in a positive way could be highlighted and done? I do feel they announced it so as not to just spring it on people and they must feel it's for some positive reason, but I'm finding more negative things based upon how some people play the game.

Two big things as I see it must be at least answered-the meaning of "once they're gone they're gone" AND switching to a different grenade. If nothing else is answered until some alpha test then at least these do need to be addressed. The former if literally true is unthinkable. The latter is a ridiculous game mechanic-and will only introduce more complaining--if that's what they want then it will be a huge success. It will only make more people lag out.

It was touted as some sort of a plus. It will get people to use other types of grenades that they might not already use. Ok, is that what DLC is for? Great to get to try other grenades (except I already have and I found the ones I like) but for many people all that will do is lag them out. They really do need to think this one through and this thread should be used by people to address all aspects of this issue-and to get some of the questions out there because I don't think necessarily all have been expressed.

This change is not being seen by people as something positive. Even if it only means grenade supply will be limited until you find some drops and nothing else changes, I still think it's a needless change and not worthy of being in a DLC promotion. Which brings this all back to the question of why. What in the game requires this be done?


One of my main concerns here is that the big reason stated for this being done was to get people to try other types of grenades. This is not a good reason at all. I'm not a big fan of forcing people to do these things instead of keeping them completely optional. Random nerfing with no explanation seems rather geared toward this as well-some nerfing is targeted. And people do use all of the different grenades-we all may even have our favorites or not use them at all.

I realize this isn't the biggest issue out there, but that is sort of the point. Grenades weren't the big problem, nor was anything that it seems stims are meant to address-replenishing HP and so on.

I think this thread isn't just geared toward the devs, but to get fans to voice how they feel about this change and all possible aspects of it.


If this truly is about getting people to use different grenades, the emphasis should be on creating instances that require them to do so. The same should be true of all weapons.

Pyro grenades should be fairly useless against metallic foes just a bios are sometimes (but not always) so against larger ones. There should be more imaginative reasons for using all types and not just because the player runs out of them.

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Originally Posted by Indra Echo

I agree and that's why I took time (as I'm sure some others did) in thinking about this one and what it might mean.

My questions ranged from the obvious of why--why do this and present it as some sort of cool new mode in the DLC teaser when things that matter in a positive way could be highlighted and done? I do feel they announced it so as not to just spring it on people and they must feel it's for some positive reason, but I'm finding more negative things based upon how some people play the game.

Two big things as I see it must be at least answered-the meaning of "once they're gone they're gone" AND switching to a different grenade. If nothing else is answered until some alpha test then at least these do need to be addressed. The former if literally true is unthinkable. The latter is a ridiculous game mechanic-and will only introduce more complaining--if that's what they want then it will be a huge success. It will only make more people lag out.

It was touted as some sort of a plus. It will get people to use other types of grenades that they might not already use. Ok, is that what DLC is for? Great to get to try other grenades (except I already have and I found the ones I like) but for many people all that will do is lag them out. They really do need to think this one through and this thread should be used by people to address all aspects of this issue-and to get some of the questions out there because I don't think necessarily all have been expressed.

This change is not being seen by people as something positive. Even if it only means grenade supply will be limited until you find some drops and nothing else changes, I still think it's a needless change and not worthy of being in a DLC promotion. Which brings this all back to the question of why. What in the game requires this be done?


One of my main concerns here is that the big reason stated for this being done was to get people to try other types of grenades. This is not a good reason at all. I'm not a big fan of forcing people to do these things instead of keeping them completely optional. Random nerfing with no explanation seems rather geared toward this as well-some nerfing is targeted. And people do use all of the different grenades-we all may even have our favorites or not use them at all.

I realize this isn't the biggest issue out there, but that is sort of the point. Grenades weren't the big problem, nor was anything that it seems stims are meant to address-replenishing HP and so on.

I think this thread isn't just geared toward the devs, but to get fans to voice how they feel about this change and all possible aspects of it.


If this truly is about getting people to use different grenades, the emphasis should be on creating instances that require them to do so. The same should be true of all weapons.

Pyro grenades should be fairly useless against metallic foes just a bios are sometimes (but not always) so against larger ones. There should be more imaginative reasons for using all types and not just because the player runs out of them.

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The change without coinciding game play relevance makes it a bad consideration as you state. No evidence thus far suggests such relevance is coming anytime soon. Thus it leaves speculation that the change is in some erroneous perception of current game balance need which seems to be that they want to have people lobbing grenades anytime until consumed and requiring more to lob again.... just like in borderlands 2(given the heavy and obvious copycat aspects of much from BL2 that isnt a suprise.

However the change doesnt seem to have been thoroughly vetted per the current state of game play and this is what is leading the disparity charge unless they plan to also copy the resistances and vulnerabilities present and prominant in BL2 as well.

Another speculation would be that they're scraping the bottom of the barrel for "content" considerations to fluff DLC 2 and feel this is one to justify it.

I think another big point of this thread is in part to maybe open up the idea that this should really be thought out before being implemented. Once it hits the test phase then it likely can't or won't be changed. It's likely at this point no matter what the reasons for or what the impact is on the game, this is already a done deal, but for a minor (or relatively one) item in the game this is a rather big issue. It's because this is such an elusive item for people to get (like pyros, want a pyronova) and because there was only some limited desire to do something about it (as opposed to all the complaints about Immunizers that sparked a couple of minor changes), it seems to have no basis.

If it is to copy Borderlands (which I don't know) then they should resist this. If I want Borderlands I'll buy that game. Just as if this game became a CoD clone, I'd do better to go buy a CoD game.

It also isn't something that I'd go around touting and acting like it's some big bonus in a DLC gameplay teaser without explaining why it's a good thing.

I realize Trick will explain some stuff when possible, but at this point I do agree that the explanations should already exist. If not then there's really no reason for this. They should already know why they're doing this. They should have ready the reasons why this is a good thing and what it means for lag in the game and lagouts from loadout changes (since that was one of the stated reasons why THEY think it's a good thing).

But personally I can't see any benefit to players (except for some PvP instances) for doing this. And if the cons outweigh the pros then maybe it should not be done.

They also need to take it from their biggest pool of "expertise"-those of us who play the game all the time. So far they have not shown us something we think is a good thing. But that should have been something they talked about in that teaser.

It's like telling us from now on the game will be melee only because people who don't use melee will get to do so. And thinking that's a good explanation. The loadout/lag out issue for grenade changing is one of the bigger issues especially since for some timeouts and lag are driving them away from a game they do like.

Ok, so i'm guessing there will be a meeting later this morning(PDT zone now is 6:37AM) to discuss the information being presented to us about Grenadegate(love that term).

I'm mostly concerned that grenade rareity is being removed. That would mean that any given type of grenade would lose it's uniqueness. For example, all frag grenades having the same cooldown, delay, and damage. With this mechanic in place you level the playing field between players, but this would only come into play when considering PvP aspects.

Please don't change our grenades if the only reason is for PvP, or "to make players use different types of grenades".

This game's core mechanics are one of the few redeeming qualities of Defiance. Like anything, you build up from a solid foundation. What you don't do is needlessly make a change to that foundation after you've already build your house upon it.

However, if such a change is not to be deterred, I suggest you add something that development doesn't want, but the player base does. Namely, a hotkey to switch loadout on the fly. <--Look, another game changer and it would go well with the grenade change, as nobody on a controller is going to want to fumble through their inventory to grab a new grenade during combat.

I am looking forward to Trick's response, but I do think there is something to be said about spending fifteen seconds on a game changer announcement in a fifteen minute video without having a follow up official post that included information covered in said video. Holiday weekend aside, this would be day five since that video posting, so it is pretty imperative that the community get a response other than "looking into it" or "busy".

These boards finally cooled down a bit since the DLC 1 release. No reason to fan the fire.

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Originally Posted by Zugo

Ok, so i'm guessing there will be a meeting later this morning(PDT zone now is 6:37AM) to discuss the information being presented to us about Grenadegate(love that term).

I'm mostly concerned that grenade rareity is being removed. That would mean that any given type of grenade would lose it's uniqueness. For example, all frag grenades having the same cooldown, delay, and damage. With this mechanic in place you level the playing field between players, but this would only come into play when considering PvP aspects.

Please don't change our grenades if the only reason is for PvP, or "to make players use different types of grenades".

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Quite frankly my worry is that there is something more behind all of this than to get people to use different types of grenades-I think that was a very weak explanation for it.

My concern is about how this ties in with stims and how stims will be acquired. If there is some actual bit usage required here or sort of required, I think it's a big mistake. The lesson here for Trion in this game or any game that comes after--when you speak of some new mechanics for an existing item in the game, it's best to have reasons and benefits to players ready to state AND to ask for player input in order to understand how this might affect the game.

I'm concerned about losing that rarity sure, because I like Infector Grenades--I don't play too much PvP because it sucks, so I love them for PvE. I have no idea how this will affect them.

But I am at least or more concerned that the devs simply do not understand what that game's lag means for us (even if it's only really bad on the xbox-this is the problem in not having test servers for the consoles). I can be having a very good instance at an arkfall for example and then run out of ammo--I decide to change weapon loadouts because maybe I want to get weapon xp for another type anyway. Instant lag out (not all the time but enough for me to know to not do this in the middle of an arkfall). Forced grenade loadout changes will cause this to happen more often and to more people for no good reason.

Sometimes before implementing things, devs really have to learn to ask this question: how will it affect the game? They cannot get a good approximation of this in their testing of it, nor can they get any good understanding from PC only test servers. In the case of grenades, all they really had to do was ask first "what do you all think of this?" I don't mean they need to do this for everything, but it's important for something that already exists before changing the mechanics of it to at least think that we might understand there will be problems.

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Originally Posted by GS Wraith

I will trade in my game tomorrow.

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If I wouldn't get only $1.25 in trade credit from the local Lamestop, I would be much closer to doing something like this. The developer communication around here is the worst that I have ever laid my eyes on.

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Originally Posted by WARDUKE

This game's core mechanics are one of the few redeeming qualities of Defiance. Like anything, you build up from a solid foundation. What you don't do is needlessly make a change to that foundation after you've already build your house upon it.

However, if such a change is not to be deterred, I suggest you add something that development doesn't want, but the player base does. Namely, a hotkey to switch loadout on the fly. <--Look, another game changer and it would go well with the grenade change, as nobody on a controller is going to want to fumble through their inventory to grab a new grenade during combat.

I am looking forward to Trick's response, but I do think there is something to be said about spending fifteen seconds on a game changer announcement in a fifteen minute video without having a follow up official post that included information covered in said video. Holiday weekend aside, this would be day five since that video posting, so it is pretty imperative that the community get a response other than "looking into it" or "busy".

These boards finally cooled down a bit since the DLC 1 release. No reason to fan the fire.

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Exactly--this was a suggestion as well that might mitigate but not remove all of the complaining--one but not the only complaint. The need to go to the loadout screen is really a dumb idea-and other games that have limited use or cooldown items (thinking biotics in Mass Effect or spells and potions in Dragon Age), have a way to switch to something else on the fly.

I frankly cannot envision doing any more arenas after this is implemented even with such a hotkey, but this would at least make it doable for other instances. I worked hard to find loadouts that work for me in arenas and my grenade is equipped just for that. I won't find them more interesting if I'm forced to go to a grenade I don't want to use.

And the other thing is perks are sometimes also geared to the loadout you use. By all means, let's force people to have to stop, change grenades and also rethink their perks right in the middle of an arena, arkfall, or siege. Cool idea.

I can think of no good reason for doing this and I'm searching for one. "Because other games do it" is not one.

The valid point here is don't change game mechanics mid-stream unless you already have some great compelling (to everyone) reasons for doing so and can explain this when announcing it.

The focus should be on fun new arkfall types but they'll be meaningless if a new mechanic breaks what was not broken.

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Originally Posted by Indra Echo

I'm concerned about losing that rarity sure, because I like Infector Grenades--I don't play too much PvP because it sucks, so I love them for PvE. I have no idea how this will affect them.

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Agreed, I don't see a place for the infector grenade in the mechanic I hinted at above, and that bothers me.

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Originally Posted by Indra Echo

But I am at least or more concerned that the devs simply do not understand what that game's lag means for us (even if it's only really bad on the xbox-this is the problem in not having test servers for the consoles). I can be having a very good instance at an arkfall for example and then run out of ammo--I decide to change weapon loadouts because maybe I want to get weapon xp for another type anyway. Instant lag out (not all the time but enough for me to know to not do this in the middle of an arkfall). Forced grenade loadout changes will cause this to happen more often and to more people for no good reason.

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I'm on NA-Xbox, and the amount of people at sieges, and major arkfalls is substantial. Any loadout change is a gamble as far as I'm concerned. I may be just fine and change my loadout, but there is a very good chance I've just pushed my poor little box over the edge.

If you factor in the "throw the last one and their gone" scenario, you've just forced me to be grenadeless for the duration of the siege or arkfall and I don't think that is the intent.