PSA to BMG users during Sieges

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Originally Posted by PseudoCool

Put on sunglasses, end of problem. Sheesh!

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This isn't happening to you, so is not an issue for you. I wear my sunglasses at night. It does happen to me, but to the OP, just accept that it is what it is. You can't change the behavior of others. Do what you can to get away from it. If it lags you out and you are on xbox, I can offer some suggestions to help you get back in and get rewards from the siege, or to even get back to it before it ends and not lose anything.

On the PS3, you need to have a friend at least in that phase. On the xbox, just make note of a few people at the siege and do find player when you're back in. Then view gamertag 2-3 times until join session in progress comes up and select that. If it doesn't work, use another name and try. Sometimes, the phase is too full so you can't get back in but it works most of the time.

And if you can't see things, try running away from the BMGer or even asking specific people (nicely) to stop spamming as it's causing too much lag. They probably won't stop, but it's worth a try.

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Originally Posted by Vorela

So pulling out my BMG on occasion to help keep everyone up around me when things get a little hairy is now the wrong thing to do? Got it. Trying to be helpful is bad.

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No, not at all. This is about spamming the BMG, people are using it constantly even on those at full health.

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Originally Posted by herrbishop x

I play on Xbox 360 but I play on a 40 inch tv and my couch is like 10
Feet away from it I also have my settings to 3/4 brightness

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That may help and individual setting might help minimize this as well but make other things harder to see. I think Trion could help with this by lowering the glowy nature of BMGs somewhat. It's the visual effects of things that cause a lot of the lag.

I know that the TV show Jeopardy used to have this nasty red glowy background on it that would cause a horrible buzzing noise when it was in view. So, it could help if some of this stuff was toned down at least a little.

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Originally Posted by Yrkul

3) Killing blow rewards promote killstealing. Solution: Remove or tone down the killing blow bonus, or make it dependent on how much damage you've dealt. Furthermore, make the assist points dependent on damage dealt as well. (Isn't that how it's done anyway?)

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Something has to be done with the killshot/assist points. I seem to quite often end up trying to defend one point on my own. I take downa couple Vs and splash damage will have seriously hurt some - then I go down. Before I manage to self revive, a couple of people finally show up and one gets that final shot on the Volge that killed me. I get 66 points for assisting. I feel like such an idiot at times like that.

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Originally Posted by Indra Echo

That may help and individual setting might help minimize this as well but make other things harder to see. I think Trion could help with this by lowering the glowy nature of BMGs somewhat. It's the visual effects of things that cause a lot of the lag.

I know that the TV show Jeopardy used to have this nasty red glowy background on it that would cause a horrible buzzing noise when it was in view. So, it could help if some of this stuff was toned down at least a little.

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I find the 3/4 brightness (on tv not in game brightness) curbs bright things from being too blinding while also keeping
Dark objects still clearly visible. The only problem I had was arenas where 99ers blended in with backgrounds

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Originally Posted by Indra Echo

I wear my sunglasses at night.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2LTL8KgKv8

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Originally Posted by Dracian

I guess you never see me doing a /dance in a middle of a Siege. Because that's what I do now if people insist on healing me after I got 20k. After all, those people desperatly need XP points for their BMG mastery, so why not give 'em some ?

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No worries, mate. I still haven't used my medic loadout during sieges. Once I get bored of just DPSing I might, though.:p

And it's a sir inside that superdeformed GUGES-D.

well, I will not be using mine much longer
about to max out my level finally. as such,
I will be moving on to the next weapon to max out.
;)


EDIT: got to remember unless you grind the levels
BMG's take 800 years to max out (feels like it anyway)
I've been using mine since about the 5th day
and just now about to max out.

Well you cant stop people using the BMG, i actually haent ocured much bmg users on sieges and you dont need to use a bmg to get a high score on sieges..

Anytime im at a siege when near start to end im always no1 with a score between 32-35k per siege and thats only using an AR with 250 dmg and 74 clip so whoever said using the bmg is the quickiest way to reach 20k is not right. also easiest way to lvl up the bmg in my opinion is using it on scrapper emergancies

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Originally Posted by SSlarg

well, I will not be using mine much longer
about to max out my level finally. as such,
I will be moving on to the next weapon to max out.
;)


EDIT: got to remember unless you grind the levels
BMG's take 800 years to max out (feels like it anyway)
I've been using mine since about the 5th day
and just now about to max out.

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Yes, I am guilty of using a BMG during Seiges. There...I said it. Why?

Well, I can top sieges/arkfalls often with my SAW, AR, or Wolfhound load-outs, but the game encourages using all the weapons. Great thing about the weapon system. I started using BMGs and actually liked them.

Problem is BMG damage blows chunks, so most BMG users start playing with healing too. Then I discovered that showing up late to an arkfall with my AR often means I get NO KEYCODES. But showing up and healing means I get my full allotment. Now I carry a BMG as a secondary weapon- just in case the arkfall is about over when I get there.

But this all doesn't hurt/hinder any other players. And I LIKE using the BMG, for both the damage and healing. I realize that the heal amounts won't save anyone under focused fire, but I do like to think I am helping other people out. I'm the guy that ALWAYS stops to rev a downed player- even with my Overcharge arms glowing red.

I have no control over the visuals in the game. They designed it, I play it. If the BMG streams lag you out or blind you, I'm sorry, talk to Trion.

Other than that, I pull out BMGs at sieges every now and then for a change of pace. You can hit 20k without too much trouble just healing, and yes, some people get a shield recharge from the BMG that keeps them up. So I think having one or two BMGers at the siege does help.

I don't spam it on full health players.

I play the Healer (or Tank/Healer hybrid when possible) in dang near every MMO/Coop game I touch, and this is quite possibly the first time I've been relegated to the Naughty Corner for it.. :confused:

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Originally Posted by Ominuse

I play the Healer (or Tank/Healer hybrid when possible) in dang near every MMO/Coop game I touch, and this is quite possibly the first time I've been relegated to the Naughty Corner for it.. :confused:

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In this case BMG users are being told by the people they profess to 'help' that they're doing more harm than good.

Use the BMG for your own reasons, nobody said you couldn't.

Users were told it didn't 'help'.
Users were asked to cut back.
Nobody said you had to stop, and nobody claimed the authority to try to make you stop.

You want to be a healer and do good, fine.
In this case you're doing harm.
Claiming to be a healer under these circumstances isn't quite true.

As always, play the game your way, but dont claim to be healing when you're harming the people you claim to be helping. Just admit you know you're not helping, and continue to use the BMG.
I didn't tell you to stop.

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Originally Posted by crasher

In this case BMG users are being told by the people they profess to 'help' that they're doing more harm than good.

Use the BMG for your own reasons, nobody said you couldn't.

Users were told it didn't 'help'.
Users were asked to cut back.
Nobody said you had to stop, and nobody claimed the authority to try to make you stop.

You want to be a healer and do good, fine.
In this case you're doing harm.
Claiming to be a healer under these circumstances isn't quite true.

As always, play the game your way, but dont claim to be healing when you're harming the people you claim to be helping. Just admit you know you're not helping, and continue to use the BMG.
I didn't tell you to stop.

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Explain to me again...because I'm slow... how someone using a BMG is a detriment or harmful to you or anyone else? I'm not talking about lag or the visual effects here, as I can see those being annoying, but not harmful.

Seriously, I really want to know what I am missing here.

i level up weapons in the sieges. if some dude gets injured yeah ill bust out the bmg and go back to leveling weapons
you know how it should be done

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Originally Posted by janzig

Explain to me again...because I'm slow... how someone using a BMG is a detriment or harmful to you or anyone else? I'm not talking about lag or the visual effects here, as I can see those being annoying, but not harmful.

Seriously, I really want to know what I am missing here.

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Your not missing anything lol just another person crying about something else it seems to me. Before you know it NERF the BMG lol. Either way no one has the right to tell anyone how to play there game so do what you want and if someone wants to complain pass them a box of tissues and move along lol

Its funny how BMG's were never a problem till Volge Sieges came along and started showing the points you get for healing. Now all of a sudden BMG's are blinding people and causing massive lag. ;)

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Originally Posted by janzig

Explain to me again...because I'm slow... how someone using a BMG is a detriment or harmful to you or anyone else? I'm not talking about lag or the visual effects here, as I can see those being annoying, but not harmful.

Seriously, I really want to know what I am missing here.

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Because of the lag and the visual effects. You want someone to point out how they're being harmful by not pointing out the harmful effects.

If I can't see what I'm trying to shoot at and it's a Bomber, your healing touch may not stop him from killing me or I won't be able to see it coming and get out of the way. Or I might get run over by a Viscera and still fall down from it.

And it isn't helping you to spam fully healthy people and lag them out. That does harm to people because they uh lag out and can miss out on getting their 20k or end rewards if they cannot get back into the correct phase. It's not physical harm to the character but harm in other ways.

People spamming BMGs is going to happen but it would be nice if they'd consider looking for people that need healing and not fully healthy people that they can stalk.

Some BMGers are doing it to heal people-as someone said because that's the way they like to play. No one is criticizing anyone (I hope not) for using them like this. But using them on people at full HP isn't healing. Most of the time I can't even see drops for ammo that I need on the ground.

And as I've said, a lot of BMGers know that they get all the same drops as the players they've healed so this is a way to max out their drops. It isn't about healing for all of them. I'm not even saying it should be. It's just that a lot of them tend to try to empty the BMG into everyone, reload and just keep spamming, whether they need it or not.

But people are gonna do what they're gonna do.

What generally happens at Sieges when someone is BMG stalking you, is it lags before you know it. All of a sudden, you can't change weapons, and when you start to get away from the BMG-a long trail of blue follows you. The game goes into slow motion. I've had this happen 3 times now. Friends have been with me so I know when the Siege ends, but for me it's not over when it is for them. I have Viscera floating blue in mid-air. And things very slowly advance forward. It can take as long as 20 minutes after the siege has ended for it to end for me and for me to get the scoreboard and rewards. But my gun won't work and I can't do anything in the phantom siege that is going on.

And at times when the siege advances forward, I can have multiple BMG streams on me from different players, all hitting me at full HP.

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Originally Posted by vizibledog

Its funny how BMG's were never a problem till Volge Sieges came along and started showing the points you get for healing. Now all of a sudden BMG's are blinding people and causing massive lag. ;)

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Actually, they've been a "problem" ever since people figured out they could use them in events (arkfalls and sieges) and get all those loot drops and a lot of BMG xp. BMGs were the one weapon type that could always get some weapon xp at arkfalls even when other weapons could not.

What took awhile was for a lot of players to decide to use them. I have friends and acquaintances that would never use them (one guy scrapped 2 orange ones) until they learned about tagging arkfalls. What happened was more people than "normal" decided they had a use. Prior to that even people that now use them all the time would never touch them. I know that I had noticed early on it was even possible to get keycodes at minor arkfalls by using a BMG (and I told others about this), when it wasn't possible to get them using other weapons.

Using a BMG has certain real advantages but there is a smarter and more helpful way to use them and still get what you want from them.

Never lagged with the use or someone using bmg. Im on like a 4mb bb atm and unless my ps3 is a super duper extraordinary machine I really dont know where ppl see this "lag".

Also the effects in no way stop or hinder what you could or couldn't do if there was no effect. Maybe annoying for some but doesn't effect killing things.

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Originally Posted by SlimShady78

Never lagged with the use or someone using bmg. Im on like a 4mb bb atm and unless my ps3 is a super duper extraordinary machine I really dont know where ppl see this "lag".

Also the effects in no way stop or hinder what you could or couldn't do if there was no effect. Maybe annoying for some but doesn't effect killing things.

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Same here. I've never seen BMG's cause lag.

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Originally Posted by vizibledog

Same here. I've never seen BMG's cause lag.

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Then the two of you are the luckiest people in the game. Or you have not been aware of what caused the lag. I'd say you could try some tests. Get into a large group of people and start walking in the game. Have one person continually spam with a BMG and then watch as person after person starts to go offline in the chat window.

Also, if you are the one using the BMG, you are less likely to be the one lagged out by it. The people getting lagged out are often those you are "healing"-they're the people you want to keep alive and in the game so the siege progresses quickly and so you can get their loot drops when they kill foes.

You may not lag yourself out, sometimes you will. But you will often lag a lot of other people out of the game. Try doing Sieges with an SMG and have a few friends BMG you constantly and see what happens.

I'm not saying posting complaints will change anything but just because you personally haven't had a problem with this doesn't mean you haven't been the reason some people are pissing mad about all the lag in the game and about getting lagged out at arkfalls and sieges.

You can do what you want-it's your game. But how people play can often help decide the lifespan of every game. Camping in CoD has made some MP maps unplayable and made a lot of people rage quit. Lag in this game (some of it from vehicles, some from explosive weapons, some from BMGs, from bad connections or connection speed drops, from console limitations, and from perhaps lack of game optimization) is causing people to leave or at least to rage and maybe then quit.

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Originally Posted by Indra Echo

Actually, they've been a "problem" ever since people figured out they could use them in events (arkfalls and sieges) and get all those loot drops and a lot of BMG xp. BMGs were the one weapon type that could always get some weapon xp at arkfalls even when other weapons could not.

What took awhile was for a lot of players to decide to use them. I have friends and acquaintances that would never use them (one guy scrapped 2 orange ones) until they learned about tagging arkfalls. What happened was more people than "normal" decided they had a use. Prior to that even people that now use them all the time would never touch them. I know that I had noticed early on it was even possible to get keycodes at minor arkfalls by using a BMG (and I told others about this), when it wasn't possible to get them using other weapons.

Using a BMG has certain real advantages but there is a smarter and more helpful way to use them and still get what you want from them.

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Ah so it is about the points and the drops rather than the blinding blue light and phantom lag. ;)

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Originally Posted by vizibledog

Ah so it is about the points and the drops rather than the blinding blue light and phantom lag. ;)

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Ah no. It's about everything altogether. Ha ha. Everyone wants the siege to go on as long as possible and to get the most from them that's possible. It's fun for you if you aren't being lagged out by BMG spammers. But it's counter-productive for everyone.

BMGs do blind players-I said this repeatedly. I've been spammed by as many as 5 players at once when I was at full HP. How is that helpful? I couldn't see anything-including my drops for my ammo to reload and I couldn't shoot at more Volge in order for myself or the spammers to get more loot. It also wasn't adding to their totals at all. You get exactly zero points for healing a person at full HP. And you don't get loot drops from them either nor do you get weapon xp from doing that. You only get those from people you actually heal from those foes they go on to kill.

I'm saying right now that a lot of BMG users are being well stupid because they aren't using their weapons effectively. They could actually use the BMG far less often and get the same results by using them on people that need healing. And by not spamming and lagging out their cash cows. It would make everyone happier at sieges because more of them would go on longer. More people including BMG users might get that 20k mark, especially if some of them used the BMG for damage sometimes.


But again, by all means play it however you want to and live with sieges that get to stage 5 if that and watch as players stop playing because sieges are effed up with all the lag. It's not my concern and it is your game.

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Originally Posted by Indra Echo

BMGs do blind players-I said this repeatedly. I've been spammed by as many as 5 players at once when I was at full HP. How is that helpful? I couldn't see anything-including my drops for my ammo to reload and I couldn't shoot at more Volge in order for myself or the spammers to get more loot.

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How did you manage to count there were 5 people BMGing you, when you say "I couldn't see anything-including my drops for my ammo"?

I love these kinds of threads, they all remind me of an NPC in another game who yelled "Mommy, make the bad man stop!".

But some of the graphical effects really do need to be turned down from 10 to about 4. And I've got no problem scoring over 20k at any siege I reach by stage 4 with almost any decent weapon. I keep a Spanner in slot 2 and I use the Preparedness perk. So when I run my main gun dry I switch to the Spanner for 3-5 seconds, heal myself and those around me, then switch back to my now loaded main weapon.

If you don't like it then simply move away.

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Originally Posted by vizibledog

How did you manage to count there were 5 people BMGing you, when you say "I couldn't see anything-including my drops for my ammo"?

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As I said I have lagged partly so the game slows way down-when that has happened I can clearly see the BMG streams on me but everything moves very slowly. And at other times it's possible to see who is after you trying to BMG you and maybe is an exaggeration that means more than a couple are pointing their blue streams at me and they do reload sometimes. You're just being argumentative at this point-clearly it is an identifiable problem because most everyone knows it's happening. If you don't care which your posts indicate is so because you want to pick out statements and try to say that means it isn't happening (phantom lag, really?) then it means you just like to cause problems and don't care to see past your own nose. Fine, but own up to it as others have.

BMGs cause a lot of lag. If they don't for you, then that's all that matters right? I was trying to tell you and others that you are actually working against yourselves by not trying to use them more effectively. If you don't care then fine play as mediocre as you want to.

Except in other threads you're complaining about server stability and want to ignore that spamming BMGs causes lag.

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Originally Posted by 3rdpig

I love these kinds of threads, they all remind me of an NPC in another game who yelled "Mommy, make the bad man stop!".

But some of the graphical effects really do need to be turned down from 10 to about 4. And I've got no problem scoring over 20k at any siege I reach by stage 4 with almost any decent weapon. I keep a Spanner in slot 2 and I use the Preparedness perk. So when I run my main gun dry I switch to the Spanner for 3-5 seconds, heal myself and those around me, then switch back to my now loaded main weapon.

If you don't like it then simply move away.

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Exactly. It's fine using whatever you have to use and even to say "I'll use it however I darn well please" but people need to admit that and that they don't care what it does to others or even if they lag themselves out and then stop complaining about lag, vacant servers, or that they can't get past stage 10 or any great Volge caches at sieges.

I can live with it but others are having real problems with it and getting angry about being lagged out. I sincerely doubt people will be happy if the devs see this is happening and then decide to nerf the heal abilities of the BMGs but that's generally what seems to happen. We alter our behavior or it becomes so bad it's done for us. They're looking at the causes of lag and trying to alleviate such things-I'd hate to see BMGs nerfed. I mean that.

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Originally Posted by Indra Echo

And you are free to, but you are self-defeating. The spamming of a BMG causes lag that can affect you or the person(s) you're aiming it at. If your goal is to get as many drops as you can then you want to keep those people in the game and not inhibit their ability to get kills. Spamming it may lag them out-so they can't get kills and you don't get drops. Also, it makes it hard for them to see so Sieges don't last as long as they could and they can't kill as many foes as they might be able to.

If you burst fire it at people and especially at those that need healing, you extend the length of the siege by keeping more people fighting in it, and you don't blind them so they can kill more foes-more drops for all. And, you are less likely to lag yourself out of the game as well.

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What kind of piece of crap system are you using where a BMG causes 'lag'? Is this on a console or you running it on a 486? BMG don't cause me no lag, not even with 20+ players using them. If you are on PC and getting lag from em, I suggest upgrading past a typewriter. And if this in on console, well EXPECT terrible performance from those outdated things.

W/e. Soooo much anger in this thread, time to do nothing but heal now at arkfalls and sieges just to annoy some you. Cu soon!

Only problem I have at sieges is when I'm first there, waiting for more people to show, and some bum comes along by himself and starts it. Then he barely gets 14k while I do everything basically alone to scramble for 25k because he couldn't wait 5-10 minutes for more players.

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Originally Posted by four

Only problem I have at sieges is when I'm first there, waiting for more people to show, and some bum comes along by himself and starts it. Then he barely gets 14k while I do everything basically alone to scramble for 25k because he couldn't wait 5-10 minutes for more players.

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Yea, this THIS THIS.

Seiges failing to get higher than 10 aint all to do with BMG users like the haters are telling us they do. No, main reason is; first guy get's there and sets it off instead of waiting for at least 10 ppl to be there. But no, onwards with the crusade of BMG hate.

TEY TOOK MAI JERB!

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Originally Posted by ten4

Yea, this THIS THIS.

Seiges failing to get higher than 10 aint all to do with BMG users like the haters are telling us they do. No, main reason is, first guy get's there and sets it off instead of waiting for at least 10 ppl to be there. But, no, onwards with the crusade of BMG hate.

TEY TOOK MAI JERB!

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lmao south park ftw!! Dey took err jerbs! Haha

but yeah, EVERY time I put it out in chat too not to start but no they feel like Rambo and wanna do it alone... Lol really? Are you that dumb? You know there's like 20 volge in round 4 right? Ok BYEHAVEAGOODTIME

Has nothing to do with Rambo and everything to do with personal score. More Volge you solo or kill with limited numbers around = more personal points. If there is zerg there, getting points is damn hard hence people get there first and start it immedietly for a leg up in points. Again, the scoring system is whacked and is NOT the players fault period. But let's just blame BMG users instead of Trion.

Yeah except he barely got 14k lol. Honestly the more players there, the more points you can get because you're able to shoot more than 4 rounds of volge. (although maybe a really good player can do it alone, but I died 3 times in round 4 against about 10 troopers and a couple bombers) my score aft the end was only 21 or 22k making it to round 5 because nobody else showed up in time to help

I am sorry you had to play with a baddy, truly I am. And 6-10 players can get to round 9, done it before a few times now.

I don't have a problem with the bmg visuals, maybe because I have bloom turned off.
I used bmg on sieges when I was leveling it for the pursuit, didn't know people get so mad about it, I thought the official troll weapon was the rebounder cannon. It's sad to see that the support role is being disencouraged because of design flaws, maybe if they make an Uber Charge mechanic like the one in team fortress 2 people will want to have a bmg user sticking around :p.

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Originally Posted by Dracian

I guess you never see me doing a /dance in a middle of a Siege. Because that's what I do now if people insist on healing me after I got 20k. After all, those people desperatly need XP points for their BMG mastery, so why not give 'em some ?

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That is an awesome idea!!

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Originally Posted by four

Only problem I have at sieges is when I'm first there, waiting for more people to show, and some bum comes along by himself and starts it. Then he barely gets 14k while I do everything basically alone to scramble for 25k because he couldn't wait 5-10 minutes for more players.

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The reason sieges fail is because everyone zergs to every point, not realizing the volges split pretty well through the several nodes. Hell, if i was the only one there I'd probably get farther than if i had a ragtag group of 5 or 6. My last siege, I more than doubled the second place score - I had 35K. The next best? 14.5K. It was in Kinship - while everyone was holding the parking garage, I, by myself, was holding the single building just south of the garage. The center node opened up, where the hostages would be, nobody flinched let alone move.

Hehe. I was alone at the parking garage last time round :) But around round 8 I couldn't hold it anymore on my own.

I usually wait to see where the zerg is gathering and drive to one of the other points. What the zerg hive mind does not understand is that we are all losing score when we don't hold all locations. Instead of clearing one location then recapturing the others for the measly 100 capture points, they should try to keep that 10% bonus every point gives.

There is a right and wrong beyond how the game is made.

Dracian, and a few others have complained about an action you are performing in the game that negatively impacts his game experience. Saying it's okay because the game design allows or even encourages it is just being selfish.

There's nothing in the game that disallows ********** in PvP but it's a universally offensivve behaviour.
So I guess that's perfectly fine too since the game design allows it.

Lets extrapolate the game design arguement...

Defiance was orginally designed with weapon damage stats kept on client machines - allowing anyone with a hex editor to 'massage' the damage values for their weapons. They designed that vulnerability right there - it's like asking anyone with low morals to tamper with the values.

So don't use game design as a crutch.
You just lack personal responsibility for your actions.

Or just admit you acknowledge that it's harming other players and you don't care.

if you cant beat um...