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A majority of any game's players do not even visit the forums, so you are talking to a minority here. It would be better to put it into chat in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dracian
Oh, wait . . . never mind. That won't help in this game.
Yeah, you're screwed.
oh I know trust me lol just joined a siege got there with 6 or 7 minutes and still climbed my way up to the top 5, prolly about 20-25 people so not bad. But you're right they all just stuck together like glue its ridiculous, I cleared a point and went over to find all the rest of them trying to take out 4-5 enemies still. Lol such fail...Quote:
Originally Posted by fang1192
I can hold one point on my own like you, but an entire siege? Forget it, was forced to try with two people and round 4 there is a drop of about 5-10 volge troopers at one point and a couple bombers. NOT a good time hahah
Ok, we managed to try this last night with 17 people and guess what? There was no lag. Nobody went offline. It must be your connection ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Echo
Find a forum to complain about them? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by SICK_VENDETTA
complain in the spam bot posts, you can get it off your chestQuote:
Originally Posted by melkathi
This forum seems to be a magnet for spam-bots :( They are out in force again today.Quote:
Originally Posted by A s0t
This thread makes me want to use double stingrays at all Arkfalls and Sieges. The game gives them a bonus if the person they heal kills an enemy (in sieges) so these BMG users are playing the game the right way.
Im not sure how it is on PC but on PS3 the SF sieges are pretty much empty try playing those.
Funny how people attacked me calling me a bmg user/kill leecher. I used them one time and barely even hit level 3. I would rather rather stick with my vbi smg and trsuty wolfhound. Cant see how my boyfriend even survived getting them to ten without the 25% skill boost.
Are the lag issues that everyone is complaining about on pc? I have 2 xboxs (my kids) one is the old model and I have game on ps3. I hqve plqhed alot on xbox both of them and ps3 and I hqbe never saw lag like normal where things move slow.
I do get somtimes where I goto places and nothing appears for a few min. Even been trapped in containers once it renders. So on both consoles 3 different ones there is a few tim3s where the game needs to "catch up" . But never saw the lag thats discussed where things move slow and never once stuttered ecause too much is happening on screen.
As I say atm I am on a crqppy 4mb bb max line speed. Even when im on 100mb connection there is the same problems but no slow jumpy lag.
BEWARE WORLD
Zugo is leveling the BMG skill for the achievement, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
I'm w/t you, y does it seem that they do it at night so u r blind and can't shoot at anything. I also think that it causes glitches since I have to reboot a lot when they r around. I play the game by skill, not by cheap tricks, where is the fun when u use super weapons. Like the people that buy 1 shot guns, in doing this u r not playing u r just there. Y play when u can't loose or die, I think that this is y the game gets more boring for these people.
Not even sure what the problem is. I do know that BMGs aren't really needed in the Sieges. They don't heal fast enough if you are getting pummeled and they don't do squat in the damage department. The only disappointment I have when someone is using BMGs is that we have someone not doing as well as they could to help advance the siege levels faster.
The highest scoring person I know for sieges got highest score around 75k points while I got around 30k. We both use Pulsers (SMGs) as the main weapon and then a long range weapon. He uses the Disruptor and I use a Semi-Auto Sniper. The Disruptor clearly works better, but I prefer the Semi-Auto.
Attachment 5555
You really can't blame people for faulty mechanics. If they change how scoring works, based on damage done and not kill shots and award less points for healing, then you'd see less BMG spam. But as it stands, when there are a lot of people around, without a BMG people are going to struggle to get the 20k score for the best reward.
Me too!Quote:
Originally Posted by vizibledog
SOmetimes I like healing :( so im gonna heal!!!
Another butthurt thread
If you cant take the heat, get out the kitchen, like a thread with you complaining is going to make hundreds of people change the way they play to satisfy you.
Cant handle it, dont play multiplayer. One of the perks is having TO DEAL WIH IT
It helps to know what I mean by spamming-I'm sure you know but just so we're on the same page. It's people just shooting them randomly at anyone and everyone and shooting until the thing is at 0%. They don't quit and use them blindly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenic_Touch
Actually BMGs don't help all that much to get to that 20k score. And, it isn't so much complaining about people using accepted, but faulty mechanics-it's about people using them rather well stupidly IMO.
Here's an example. I get to the outside of an arkfall, still on my ATV and someone is spamming me already with a BMG. I get off the ATV and run the other way, away from the arkfall and the person is still spamming me, chasing me with it. I was trying to get away, so I would not be lagged out with all the vehicles around and I didn't need healing. Not a siege, but same principle.
At a Siege, at the end of a stage where everyone is trying to find the last Volge standing and others are running around to pick up their loot and are at full health, people are chasing after them spamming BMGs. What sense is there in that?
The reason people are spamming them is not to heal people necessarily-so they are not getting heal points. If they're shooting the thing at people with full HP (duh, you can see they're at full health by the bars over their heads), they also are not getting any weapon XP. And they are actually helping to shorten the life of the Siege because they are lagging people out or making it hard for them to pick up the stuff on the ground which also helps to lag people out. And that means they won't get the drops those people would earn them from their kills. They're not using them effectively or smartly.
I'd have no problem with them if they were healing people, but half the time they're not even anywhere near where the Volge are. So, they aren't even working on getting damage points. The other thing that could happen is that with more and more people complaining about this, they'll make the devs change how BMGs work, so that again is not helping them and their BMG love.
They're doing it because they heard that it helps them to maximize drops for the most part.
There are some people using them effectively and that makes sense-healing or doing damage and all that, but it's this random spamming just because there's a group of people that is really ridiculous. And it's a very common thing right now.
It's not about that but this is another case where people are working against their own best interests. They're "healing" fully healthy players a lot of the time, so all they're doing is lagging people out, shortening sieges, and not even getting any points or helping anyone by doing it. It's actually pretty stupid use of the things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krazy Karen
As I've said this won't change their behavior-people will do what they'll do but they aren't winning at sieges by doing this. And they don't get drops from foes killed by people they shoot the BMG at that are at full health. They don't get healing points, don't get weapon xp, and just lag people out, or when too many are going off at once, they make it hard for people to see what they're trying to do. They won't change but some people really don't realize that BMGs cause any problems so it might help somewhat to point these things out.
Actually, they do. The mechanics are faulty because you get more points for a healing assist than you do for actually shooting the target until it dies if someone else gets the killing shot. And the way the BMG works, if you heal for a few seconds, you get about 2-5 seconds of when someone else gets a kill or assist, you'll get credit. There's a reason why people go around spamming on random people or following groups, because the mechanics are bad and they know it. You may not like it, but it's Trion's fault for designing sieges that way. As for the lag? that's the ups of playing on an inferior system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Echo
If you run, I must pursue you. Like a Cheetah chases a gazelle across the Serengeti plains of Africa.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Echo
Try slowly walking away so as not to awaken the inner predatory insticts. :p
How do you know which streams are incoming and which streams could be links?Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Echo
Also you keep moaning about BMG's targeting full health people. Maybe your being hit from a link from someone who has depleted shields in your vicinity?
The point is you have to be healing for that to work-I am always having people spam me at full health. I have a 75% HP regen shield, often use syphon but just generally am not being healed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenic_Touch
And you don't get credit for the stuff I do unless I'm actually still in the game or unless you are actually healing me. That's the point I'm making about spamming-people are not using them to actually heal others much of the time. They are randomly shooting them and hoping they'll hit someone who needs healing. But even if they hit me for healing by continuously shooting me with it they're being counter-productive. They are blinding me for the few seconds so I won't be able to get them their credit as well as my own. If they'd actually use them near where the Volge are instead of hoping someone they hit with one will do something, they'd get more from each blast.
I used to go around at arkfalls and use them exclusively even when other weapons were not getting xp-it's how I found out you could get keycodes at minors even when no one else could. And that you could get the loot drops but they're of no use on people that are not injured.
The same goes for tagging arkfalls. If you go and don't actually heal someone who needs it then forget about getting the rewards.
I'm not complaining about broken mechanics per se (except lag caused by extreme effects is a broken mechanic AND the misuse of certain items at times), I am stating that people are not using BMGs in the most effective way that would even maximize their rewards. Very few sieges last longer than stage 10--some are not making it past stage 5 and anything that ruins the chance of longer sieges ruins it for everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vizibledog
No. They just crossed the streams.
No you don't. Healing someone at full health will still award heal assists. I learned this the first day of the siege.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Echo
Lol whatever you do, don't cross the streams :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sanguinesun
Living up to your name. I want to see you complete a siege where EVERYONE is healing then, since you know, its the right way to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chump Norris
Oh, the BMG. It is such an odd bird.
So, there are a few distinct issues being discussed here:
ContributionThe invisible, insipid contribution system which governs rewards in arkfalls and other events drives players to use sub-optimal strategies with the BMG. We are changing that contribution system to make it both visible and more consistent with the playstyle of the game. Sadly, this contribution update will take some time to go public, as it requires a significant update to the UI. Current contribution is weighted towards healing, reviving, and crits which causes serious problems when coupled with our weapon balance. We are shifting the preponderance of rewards towards teamwork and defeating enemies. (Currently, this is greatly undervalued.)BMG balance/effects; Weapon balance in generalWe’re doing a major pass on weapon balance as we speak. Certain weapons, like the VBI Assault Rifles and the FRC SAW, perform really well and are the measure of effective weaponry. We are going to keep those the same, but bring the underperforming weapons up to meet them. (Rocket launchers, semi-auto sniper rifles, and magnums are the key weak weapons in this balancing.)Score balance in sieges
The BMG is also getting looked at, and reducing the size of its visual effects is certainly on the table. (Particularly the protector effect.) As a tool in the ark hunter arsenal, the BMG currently encourages some sub-optimal play. It’s a bad damage dealer, and its healing is difficult to use strategically. So, lots of people are using it to earn credit for heal assists rather than actually concentrating on protecting allies or debuffing enemies.
It’s going to be a little longer before BMGs really shine like they should, but you won’t be disappointed by the effect.Here’s a good way to visualize the primary scoring technique of sieges. Each enemy is a big bag of points. Every time you damage an enemy, a portion of that bag is marked as belonging to you. When the enemy dies, the points are dealt out to all the players which damaged it. Additionally, the player who got the killing blow gets a bonus of 10% of the enemy’s total value. We have an update in the pipe to make this “killing blow” bonus a little smarter, to compensate for timing differences across multiple clients.
We DO want you killing enemies. We DO NOT want people to feel cheated out of their killing blows.
Additionally, healers get a portion of the points the players they are healing get. However, these points are essentially duplicated from healed players rather than stolen. Healing is not a zero-sum game; healing always adds to the total points in an equation.
Wh00t, SASR love!
Please increase the ammo pool, Trick. I actually think everything else about SASRs is pretty good. Maybe increase the RoF a bit as well but that's all I can think of. They're my favorite weapons but they also turn me into a turret since I can never wander too far away from an ammo box.
This makes them difficult to use in a few sieges and arkfalls, most notably the Bath House siege in SF.
Thanks for the heads-up. Please consider making some of the BMG stats a little more transparent as well. Seeing the energy bank expressed as an amount of points instead of a percentage would help us get a better feel of what mods, type and bonus rolls do to the weapon's performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickDempsey
Glad to hear this, it is kinda sad that I have to lug a BMG to an AF and find someone to heal for about 10 seconds just to guarantee I will get max keycodes; but after coming in 1st at multiple AFs and not getting max keycodes I will continue to do so until you announce the aforementioned change has been placed into effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickDempsey
Somehow that doesn't seem to match the reality as I experience it. My experience is that for assist I ge the 10% bonus the killshot should have gotten, but the killshot gets the whole bag of points :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickDempsey
Ok then one of our games is bugged. I did some testing on this because I believe you know what you're talking about. I did Volge Sieges and a Dark Matter arkfall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenic_Touch
I apologize to anyone affected by this-but I did not spam the thing so I could fully control who I was hitting with the heal effect-I didn't want to hit anyone that actually needed healing. That's counter to my way of playing but I did do it so as not to cause problems.
I healed only people at full HP. At sieges I got zero healing assist points. The only time I got any drops or points was from two times when I used the BMG to do damage to Volges and someone killed them. Or when standing by a turret doing nothing-I got 360 points for a turret kill.
At the arkfall. It was a minor just to be sure. I got 98 points because I accidentally healed someone who needed it. I only got drops from him (once) and from the round change bonus drops that fall by the ark core. This was one of those ones where you get rid of wave after wave.
The BMG healing healthy people under-performed every weapon out there by a large margin. It did not get me a lot of drops, didn't get me any healing assist points, and didn't help me get a good score in any way. Perhaps what some are seeing is a misunderstanding.
I can test this some more but the key tends to be that you must heal injured people as well as do some damage to really get anything at these events. And just to be clear, I didn't get any keycodes doing this either. Oh and I got a very tiny amount of weapon xp as well-from the healing of the one injured guy and the damage to 2 Volge-about 586 points.
That is the greatest thing I have heard from your team EVER.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickDempsey
Thank you.
You made me smile. ;)
I have to agree with Indra Echo on this one. I have a few guildmates who love playing combat medic and they'll readily roll a BMG as their primary weapon at sieges.
I typically score substantially higher than they do using either the Frontier Semi-automatic Sniper Rifle or the EMC Service Rifle off of the VBI faction vendor.
They're not rolling in points just because they're spamming a BMG. It's a lot easier to get points with a high-DPS weapon and Overcharge. And aiming well.
Personal opinion here, but I think a lot of people don't level weapon skills, or take the weapon skill grind seriously, and never actually learn how to shoot well on the run, making snap shots, and holding on target.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavadus
It's a skill. The drudgery of repetition not only makes you better at hand/eye coordination, but the game engine considers it 'paying dues', and as you put in the time to get better, the game rewards you by making shots easier to hit at higher weapon skills than at lower. You make more kills with experience than you would have at lower experience. The grind has it's own reward in that way.
Yeah, my Frontier SASR does something like 864 damage per shot, 2.5x crit multi, and the RoF at SASR 20 is pretty good (I get 2-3 shots out per second, so averaged out that's 150 rounds per minute).Quote:
Originally Posted by crasher
With 25 rounds per mag I can chew up a regular Visecera's entire shields and almost half of it's health with Overcharge popped. That's 1,123.2 damage per shot. Crit on the head is 2,808. That's 70,200 damage from a single magazine assuming all shots land on the head which is really easy with Visceras.
If I setup shop next to an ammo point and have good fields of fire I can break 35k without a sweat.
This is how I am. Every co-op map I'm in, I'm the one sort of in the back with the BMG, making sure my teammates stay alive. It's a big part of how I play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavadus
I've been doing a mix of shooting/healing/reviving players at the sieges, and I love it because I'm finally rewarded for that, instead of just doing it to level my BMG.
And perfectly valid at any event. No problem at all with that. I used to use my BMG religiously for those reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by SydSynister
The main thing I'm pointing out here is that people are not using them like that, not being effective with them. They are running behind people at full health and using heal mode until the BMG runs out. My best example was the one where I was just arriving at an arkfall, still on my ATV. Someone runs over to heal me. Ok not smart. I had to drive away to get away from him/her.
The reason this becomes an issue is because it lags people out and spamming constantly does make it hard to see anything, especially if more than one person does it.
I tried this out earlier and I don't get any weapon xp, drops, or heal points or credit for healing a fully healthy person.
I do however get a lot from healing them effectively and doing damage. I did three arkfalls doing this and not spamming it. I got a lot of scrip, loot (had to keep breaking things down), salvage, points, full keycodes, weapon xp, and came in 4th at a major arkfall, 3rd at a minor, and further down at a major I got to late, still placed on the leaderboard (think it was 7th place) even though I actually died a few times. This from using my BMG and looking for people that needed to be healed-and doing damage to foes.
In healing healthy people at sieges and arkfalls, I accidentally hit healthy people a couple times and damaged a couple Volge-most weapon xp I got was about 590. At one arkfall I got zeroes across the board--with very few drops. I changed to a tele-spanner for one to make sure I was hitting only healthy people, spammed it as much as I dared (because I didn't want to lag people out), and I got nothing for doing that.
When I healed people, I ended up getting somewhere I think near 60k weapon xp.
If people would use them like you do, in a more effective way they will do a lot better at events with them and they will minimize the chances of lagging anyone out.
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/6355/a6vu.jpg
BMG + Green Ego Boost VS Exposed Motivator: 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 3, 3, 3...?!!
Can your team double-check/test that part of the code again, please? I routinely do sieges with my clan mates while on Teamspeak. We've encountered numerous times when a clan member gets the last couple of hits on a target (that they haven't been shooting at) and receives over 1000 points. It's a bit problematic as I tend to be on auto-pilot and snap-aim to any target nearby... but lately I have been making sure to pick targets that aren't being fired on by a team mate (I don't want to end up stealing the kill points and I want as many to get to 20K as possible). What would be great is if the whole "kill shot" bonus was removed entirely and the points upon a target's death get distributed based on % of damage done for each player that's damaged the target. This would also bring about a feeling of camaraderie to all those in the siege. Right now it feels like everyone's just DPS'ing for that kill shot (or "sniping" them with detonators...).Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickDempsey
I think there are lots of things not working as intended in this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by chilipino