Future plans for retention?

I originally was going to post this tomorrow when I had the time to develop a well thought out and constructive post. However, seeing how Defiance is down for me, as well as a few others, I figured now would be as good of a time as any.

So, way back when they first lowered the ego level to unlock perk slots they made mention (well, it was more like a promise---but we know how those go) that they were working on something for retention, especially for high ego players. It has been a while now, and not once has anyone from Trion mentioned anything else about this.

You would think now is a good time to address this, as the current situation and outlook for the game is bleak. I'm losing more friends in the game than I am making.... and that shouldn't be the case for an online game. They all had different reasons which I don't need to list, but I assume they can all be guessed by the forum goers on here. Seriously though, at this rate I will be doing DLC 3 solo (granted I can even log in by the time that DLC rolls out).

Unfortunately, Trion has great moments that are quickly overshadowed by less-than-favorable ones. Case in point, the new arkfalls for DLC2 look amazing, but it is being overshadowed by "grenade-gate" right now. So how about we finally hear some of these plans you guys have been talking about to try to retain your player base that is slowly trickling away like a frat boys bladder and a 2 night kegger? I know it has definitely been a month or two since this was originally brought up so I know you guys MUST have something up your sleeve. I don't think an answer such as "info coming soon" or "we can't make any statements on the matter" are any answers that will suffice at the current time and state of the game.

I was once a pro-Trion player who had to reevaluate my stance some time ago and decided that even though I love this game, I must make a neutral stance because of the direction it was going to me seemed less than favorable. However, it seems more and more each day that I am once again reevaluating that stance and becoming more negative towards something that I used to love.

So, does Trion have something up their sleeve for retention (especially for higher-ego players)? Is there something coming down the pipe that we can be excited for that will not be overshadowed by something that no one sees as needed or wants (such as core foundation changing "fixes")? Or is it time for us to pack our bags, wipe our hands clean, and head out of the once great land of Paradise that had so much potential for fellow ark hunters?

Sorry, not as thought out as I wanted it to be, but seeing that I haven't been able to log in for quite some time now I really don't have much else to do but go ahead and get this off my chest. It's just depressing to see more and more people leave each day from a game that had so much potential.

PS: Please start testing new things out on the consoles before implementing them as well! While some of your ideas may be great in your eyes, it will just lead to more instability for the console servers (assuming they don't crash and burn anyway).

Thank you for your time reading this.

well said, good sir or madam!

Agree fully. That's pretty much my stance as well.. even had one friend get mad at me last week after buying the DLC on my suggestion before I knew just how broken it was.

Sign me up for your newsletter.

Made some new friends in the game, Had a lot of fun with them.

If I want to see them again there are other games I have to log on to.

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Originally Posted by Bonehead

well said, good sir or madam!

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i was serious until i saw this, and thought about the new rules thread. well played. well playedddddd. /10char

Never going to happen. It's a very light game with a "pick up n' play" mentality. Those of us who came in expecting considerable initial content and a steady flow of additional content beyond that basically jumped before we looked. Everything after this point will be more of the same. They don't have the staff, the resources or the ability to grant our very basic wishes.

I mean, movie games suck. Anyone who's been playing games for a while knows that.

But TV show games... c'mon. We all should have known better.

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Originally Posted by Pyth

Never going to happen. It's a very light game with a "pick up n' play" mentality. Those of us who came in expecting considerable initial content and a steady flow of additional content beyond that basically jumped before we looked. Everything after this point will be more of the same. They don't have the staff, the resources or the ability to grant our very basic wishes.

I mean, movie games suck. Anyone who's been playing games for a while knows that.

But TV show games... c'mon. We all should have known better.

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Sadly, I have to agree with that post in its entirety. From my consumer perspective, this whole situation is appearing as though it's completely spiraled into nothing more than damage control. Unfortunately, that doesn't trigger my consumer purchasing impulses as far as DLCs or the Cash Shop. It actually manages to trigger the opposite.

This has grown, for me, beyond just Defiance. The wife and I have now cancelled our subscriptions to Rift, which has now stopped our recurring payment to Trion Worlds as well as our cash shop purchases for special mounts and other digital items.

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Originally Posted by Rasczak

Sadly, I have to agree with that post in its entirety. From my consumer perspective, this whole situation is appearing as though it's completely spiraled into nothing more than damage control. Unfortunately, that doesn't trigger my consumer purchasing impulses as far as DLCs or the Cash Shop. It actually manages to trigger the opposite.

This has grown, for me, beyond just Defiance. The wife and I have now cancelled our subscriptions to Rift, which has now stopped our recurring payment to Trion Worlds as well as our cash shop purchases for special mounts and other digital items.

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I'm sorry to hear that you allowed Defiance to damage your support for Rift. I think Rift is still a very good game, although the extra value received for being a subscriber (patron) isn't much.

Back on topic... IMO, Trion NEEDS to get an Executive Producer assigned to Defiance who will communicate with the player base. I would expect monthly 'Producer's Letters' which would. among other things talk about the state of the game and plans for player retention.

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Originally Posted by MacDeath

I'm sorry to hear that you allowed Defiance to damage your support for Rift. I think Rift is still a very good game, although the extra value received for being a subscriber (patron) isn't much.

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It wasn't a decision we made easily, but it ultimately came down to what image was being projected to the communities (including over at Rift) as of late-- an image we can only assume is endorsed by Trion Worlds at the upper levels. Unfortunately, it's an image that seems to indicate a severe shift, and one we are not comfortable with, nor confident in, as consumers.

Rift is a very good game; but it wasn't the game that caused the decision.

Scott is a great guy with a real passion for what he does. I've had a direct line to him for a little while now. The wife and I did at least have the decency to provide him with feedback as to what things caused our decision.

Even something as simple as a "day in the defiance dev hq" documentary or something would be great to see. especially if Trickbro was involved.

Did D3 kill the PS3 pop or I was just really unlucky getting in to populated shards tonight? I did 3 Arkfalls (way less than I normally get to do) all of these had less than 10 people....They took way to long to complete and I cant level with XP so its all about keys for me. I now have 15 keys and no desire to try for more...hell if I did go for more I would be rewarded with green weapons.

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Originally Posted by Pyth

Never going to happen. It's a very light game with a "pick up n' play" mentality. Those of us who came in expecting considerable initial content and a steady flow of additional content beyond that basically jumped before we looked. Everything after this point will be more of the same. They don't have the staff, the resources or the ability to grant our very basic wishes.

I mean, movie games suck. Anyone who's been playing games for a while knows that.

But TV show games... c'mon. We all should have known better.

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I never thought of it that way but I think you might be right. It might turn around in time but if it does it's not gonna be soon.
There just are not enough hands on deck anymore for any quick action.

I can't help but to also place part of the blame for the steep drop in the player base on the TV show itself. By that I am specifically referring to the shows off seasons. I myself have felt less and less desire to log in since the season ended due to the fact that I don't have TV episodes hyping me up to get more of the Defiance world. I would get so pumped watching it that I would just have to log in and play. Without the shows "assistance" I've found myself revisiting older games in my collection and sampling new ones. Right now I'm checking out D3 (yeah...I know) on the PS3. Even if/when I do decide to jump back into the Defiance world I have firmly decided that I can no longer in good conscience purchase anything from the store. Too much has changed already and it simply isn't heading in the direction I thought it would. I think this will inevitably be the destiny of Defiance. It will become one of those games that players might want to revisit every now and then, but not one they are willing to spend money on. That's just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Pyth

Never going to happen. It's a very light game with a "pick up n' play" mentality. Those of us who came in expecting considerable initial content and a steady flow of additional content beyond that basically jumped before we looked. Everything after this point will be more of the same. They don't have the staff, the resources or the ability to grant our very basic wishes.

I mean, movie games suck. Anyone who's been playing games for a while knows that.

But TV show games... c'mon. We all should have known better.

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I agree with you here 100% But the concept looked SO cool! MMO Type shooter, Mad Guns, The promise in video and interviews was borderlands to the infinite power...And I got sucked in.

Breakdown of the history of the game for me.
Wow this show looks awesome. It has Battlestar Galactica staff. Oh wait there's a game?
Watch hour long preview of defiance on IGN. WOW the game looks better than the show.
Pre order ultimate edition.

Beta: Meh it's a beta it's supposed to have problems and they address them at launch.
Launch: It's an MMO they'll get through it, they always do
First cross content. Lanterns and data recorder hunts
Early Patches: It's okay breath, they'll get it sorted out. Twitter says soooooon!
Rynn Cross Over: Look More Data recorder hunts and a forced single player mission.
Mid Patches: Please please trion get this one right....FAIL
Infected Volge: WIN! They're doing something right....oh wait where did they go...WTF...that was fun
Recruit a friend introduced: Uh oh the writings on the wall.
Later Patches:Upon announcement the fear of downtime and more bugs sets in. They haven't gotten one right yet...Why did I spend $150 on this again?
Price Change: WTF! Seriously..man what a waste of money!!!
DLC: What did I pay for? Loves me some new vehic....what is this shtako the quad is better than this...Look more Data recorders...is this what passes off as content?

Contemplate Simo Hayha's in game life and giving away orange shtako to random newbies but will give DLC 2 a chance first.

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Originally Posted by MacDeath

I'm sorry to hear that you allowed Defiance to damage your support for Rift. I think Rift is still a very good game, although the extra value received for being a subscriber (patron) isn't much.

Back on topic... IMO, Trion NEEDS to get an Executive Producer assigned to Defiance who will communicate with the player base. I would expect monthly 'Producer's Letters' which would. among other things talk about the state of the game and plans for player retention.

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They haven't posted anything in the community blog since the 26th...:/
So much for his huge intro and further empty promises.

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Originally Posted by MagellanD

They haven't posted anything in the community blog since the 26th...:/
So much for his huge intro and further empty promises.

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I don't care if the Producer uses the Blog or some other means but I do think it would be good if he/she communicated with players on a regular basis, such as monthly 'state of the game' letters.

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Originally Posted by MacDeath

I don't care if the Producer uses the Blog or some other means but I do think it would be good if he/she communicated with players on a regular basis, such as monthly 'state of the game' letters.

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Yup!
I am basically agreeing with you.
Final Fantasy is a fiasco right now but the Producer is putting blame on himself and they're being very communicative on their actions and next steps.

Good post. I suggested some time back that it was a mistake to merely test all things on the PC and not do live testing on consoles. I play mostly on xbox. The lag can be crippling at times. I've suggested ways to help minimize it that can make it better for some, but Trion seems hell bent on inserting new things without ever really assessing how they will add to already staggering lag.

I've done far too many Sieges and arkfalls where I'm doing really well and then everything turns to slow motion-it can take a full 20 minutes or more for a Siege at the 2 minute mark to finish for me. That's 20 minutes beyond when it actually finished.


This is now reaching critical mass. The introduction of the EGO boosts at DM arkfalls as well as the rest of the effects at them, began a truly downward spiral. There was exactly zero consideration given as to the effect this would have on players.

The reduced loot at Volge emergencies (lowering of loot tables for all Volge so sieges wouldn't have high lag due to drops) indicates they had some awareness. Or that someone did, because some of them think the loot tables weren't lowered and emergencies still get the loot they always did. I can appreciate that it truly was an attempt to mitigate lag, but it was not a fix.

And from all I've seen they aren't really considering it going forward. It will be lag that kills this game because they are not listening to us about it.

I've even asked that they at least consider an easier way for people that have been lagged out to get back to their lost phase or some other way they will get rewards for whatever event they were timed out of--a workaround at best. I doubt they understand not just of rage, but the frustration that exists when someone finishes 3 minor parts of a major arkfall and gets partway through the boss area only to be lagged out and get nothing for it. Or the frustration of getting past stage 10 at a Siege with a good score maybe even leading to first place and then being lagged out.

Games might make you rage-some excel at this, but the rage should not be from frustration over something that is being ignored by the devs.

And things that need to be fixed should be fixed-new things should be added when they are fixed. And console testing under real world conditions should be done before expecting people to pay for content on consoles, or before releasing it to them.

Anything they tell us would be so wrapped in vague mystery that we would have a Retention-Gate start up.

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Originally Posted by Zugo

Anything they tell us would be so wrapped in vague mystery that we would have a Retention-Gate start up.

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Their Answer....Soon.

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Originally Posted by Pyth

I mean, movie games suck. Anyone who's been playing games for a while knows that.

But TV show games... c'mon. We all should have known better.

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Wait, what!!??!!?? What about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles for NES and Super NES? Those were phenomenal games based off of a TV show! :D

In my own defense, no other TV show or movie game has ever hyped me up as much Defiance...

I actually haven't played Defiance in a couple of weeks... Last time I played, there was nobody at I.D.R., 8 people at a siege, and less than 20 at a DM arkfall... As much fun as that was (because it was much more difficult than stand and shoot), it showed a sign of things. Then I started thinking, "Why? Why play anymore?"

Good question, right? I mean, besides each person's actually desire to do this, get that, or whatever else, I mean really, what is there to do in the game now that is dynamic and fresh?

Going to use a CoD example here. People will play CoD version after version, hour after hour, day after day and it ALL boils down to shoot this (possibly guard that), rinse, repeat on a small number of maps. So what keeps people coming back to that? Prestige, constant weapon unlocks, mod unlocks, patterns, etc. and at the base of it all? PvP.

Yeah, most of us dislike PvP here in Defiance, but PvP is what makes CoD so dynamic. Sure, same mission game after game, but a changing enemy (not AI) keeps it more fresh than stale "enemies drop at this location, every time, and do exactly 'this' every time." Know what I mean?

So, as well as a plethora of content (as I'm sure most will agree), there needs to be constant unlocks of things to keep people striving for (not the "RNG I'm LUCKY!" orange weapons crap) but legit things. I think the synergy mods being able to be bought helps a tad with that. Give something for people to legitimately strive for.

Also, add in some dynamic content. All arkfalls spawn in the same 5 areas. All enemies spawn in the same 4 areas and do the same thing. Mix it up! Give us something that is guaranteed to be different each time. There are soooo many ways you could go with "actual" dynamic content, not the crap that the game stated it came with.

Meh, okay, done here.

Don`t really know what`s been happening since tuesday.
Still love this game but i was expecting a game like Diablo III for the PS3, since...forever.
I`ve been playing D3 these last two days. One thing i can tell, it will not be D3 the game that will make me stop playing Defiance.
I still have some faith in Defiance , but i did not married with Defiance...

The game's design and implementation isnt organized in a manner that reflects a significant desire for heavy retention of players. It is a casual lobby game's level of retention consideration imposed on a persistent world game design. The end result is a revolving door model that requires mining potential customers with various gimmicks, sales, and other promotions. The newer ones come in wide eyed with expectations and "potential" thinking strive to invest in the game then fade when they see things as they really are.

Its a race to mine vs word of mouth to avoid/brunt of jokes.

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Originally Posted by drackiller

I still have some faith in Defiance , but i did not married with Defiance...

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The makings of the lyrics for country music's next big hit. :P

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Originally Posted by JxSiN

I was once a pro-Trion player who had to reevaluate my stance some time ago and decided that even though I love this game, I must make a neutral stance because of the direction it was going to me seemed less than favorable. However, it seems more and more each day that I am once again reevaluating that stance and becoming more negative towards something that I used to love.

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Well said, good sir or madam! Couldn't have said it better myself.

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Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

The game's design and implementation isnt organized in a manner that reflects a significant desire for heavy retention of players. It is a casual lobby game's level of retention consideration imposed on a persistent world game design. The end result is a revolving door model that requires mining potential customers with various gimmicks, sales, and other promotions. The newer ones come in wide eyed with expectations and "potential" thinking strive to invest in the game then fade when they see things as they really are.

Its a race to mine vs word of mouth to avoid/brunt of jokes.

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I hate to say that i agree with you in this assessment of the state of things .

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Originally Posted by drackiller

Don`t really know what`s been happening since tuesday.
Still love this game but i was expecting a game like Diablo III for the PS3, since...forever.
I`ve been playing D3 these last two days. One thing i can tell, it will not be D3 the game that will make me stop playing Defiance.
I still have some faith in Defiance , but i did not married with Defiance...

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You have the patience of a saint my friend.
As I've said before DLC2 will be the make or break for me and I can move on to my PS4 & XBONE Destiny and the other AAA developers that are working on the similar concepts as this. First to the punch doesn't mean best. Defiance proved that unfortunately.

oh. P.S Release date for Stick of Truth! Nov 19th!!!

Late to this party, but JxSin... very well put and thought out my friend. +1

This game is dead on the day of DLC2 release...... here is why.

They are going to F it up again. Every previous release tells me this. The DLC will be a flawed, weak, rehash of existing resources and mechanics. It will be cobbed together because the actual Dev staff numbers working on the project are how many? 5 tops? The server will have issues, there will be issues with implementation, yada yada yada.

Every day veteran hard core fans of this game are leaving - and not just putting the game down.... that happens all the time. They are leaving and handing out their inventory. That is a perma-leave. Other, better games are drawing people away, never to return. New players are coming in, but they quickly get the picture and bail on their $5-$7 investment.

Since Tuesday it's become a lot more barren in the landscape of Paradise.... 5 people at a Siege in the evening?

Could Trion pull this game back from the coffin? Hell Yes.

Will they? Hell No.

They are spending time re-writing the forum rules instead of actual communication with us.

If this were my mess, I would be in here talking with fans directly and trying to win some of them back, but Trion just doesn't seem to give a crap. The ship has sunk, the captain who sunk it has paddled off in a dingie, and the new captain is standing on the sinking ship pissing himself with a handful of dolts who are setting the remains of the ship on fire.

I really want to see things turn around...... but I am not holding my breath.

the way all of you are talking, the exodus is most likely to begin prior to dlc2.

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Originally Posted by Billy Guile

the way all of you are talking, the exodus is most likely to begin prior to dlc2.

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All I have to do is remember how my clan of 100+ went to 70+ weeks later from start then of those remaining 70, less than 5 have logged in in the last 2 months or longer. To me, the exodus already happened long ago. We're just the ones with the lame donkey's and broken wheels on the carts scavenging the roadside discarded provisions :P

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Originally Posted by Billy Guile

the way all of you are talking, the exodus is most likely to begin prior to dlc2.

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Perhaps there is some truth to this but if you've been here since launch this talk has been the norm.
DLC2 is most likely going to be the straw that breaks the camels back.

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Originally Posted by JimmyRustler

...the new captain is standing on the sinking ship pissing himself with a handful of dolts who are setting the remains of the ship on fire.

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Awesome visual! Yup, makes sense to me! :D

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Originally Posted by MagellanD

Perhaps there is some truth to this but if you've been here since launch this talk has been the norm.
DLC2 is most likely going to be the straw that breaks the camels back.

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which is why i was apprehensive to say it. I think the major difference between the status quo of "I give up" between all these past months and now, is as what was pointed out before, even the most mild and supportive have now coughed up their doubts.

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Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

All I have to do is remember how my clan of 100+ went to 70+ weeks later from start then of those remaining 70, less than 5 have logged in in the last 2 months or longer. To me, the exodus already happened long ago. We're just the ones with the lame donkey's and broken wheels on the carts scavenging the roadside discarded provisions :P

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Yep,
Our Clan has higher retention for Defi because it was born in Defi and there are a number of hardcore players who will be there to see DLC5...... but we have lost people to Splinter Cell, Diablo 3, and when GTAV Hits...... more. I was at a siege last night, did a call out for it on clan, and only one person showed up......

Don't get me wrong, I am still a Defi player..... but it's not getting all of my gaming time anymore, and I am not buying bits anymore (HEAR THAT TRION!) I will ride out the rest of the content I have bought already and see where it goes as long as I have one friend or clanmate to play it with.

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Originally Posted by JimmyRustler

Yep,
Our Clan has higher retention for Defi because it was born in Defi and there are a number of hardcore players who will be there to see DLC5...... but we have lost people to Splinter Cell, Diablo 3, and when GTAV Hits...... more. I was at a siege last night, did a call out for it on clan, and only one person showed up......

Don't get me wrong, I am still a Defi player..... but it's not getting all of my gaming time anymore, and I am not buying bits anymore (HEAR THAT TRION!) I will ride out the rest of the content I have bought already and see where it goes as long as I have one friend or clanmate to play it with.

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by the time DLC5 comes out, I hope to be playing Titanfall.

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Originally Posted by Billy Guile

by the time DLC5 comes out, I hope to be playing Titanfall.

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We will never see DLC5..... Trion will be bankrupt and closed by then. The clock is ticking

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Originally Posted by Billy Guile

by the time DLC5 comes out, I hope to be playing Titanfall.

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TitanFall 2

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Originally Posted by MagellanD

You have the patience of a saint my friend.
As I've said before DLC2 will be the make or break for me and I can move on to my PS4 & XBONE Destiny and the other AAA developers that are working on the similar concepts as this. First to the punch doesn't mean best. Defiance proved that unfortunately.

oh. P.S Release date for Stick of Truth! Nov 19th!!!

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I have more patience then i should but like i said in the final part of my post i have no obligations to this game.
The game is fun, but fun isn`t enough anymore.

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Originally Posted by drackiller

I have more patience then i should but like i said in the final part of my post i have no obligations to this game.
The game is fun, but fun isn`t enough anymore.

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It is fun to be honest. Until you realize every "activity" is go here shoot and go here press X.
You had goals to reach and objectives to hit...They're now hit.

They promise new content and give us data recorders.
Even the DLC the first recorder is RIGHT BESIDE ANOTHER ONE.

Then Logic sets in...Hey there are other games out there.
I just thoroughly enjoyed kicking the snot out of Saints Row IV. Now Im patiently awaiting Sept 17th and Oct 1st respectively.

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Originally Posted by MagellanD

TitanFall 2

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LOL. or Assassin's Creed 23: USS Enterprise