Ask another forumite here what happens when someone blames the fans. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Escyos
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Ask another forumite here what happens when someone blames the fans. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Escyos
Why don't you just apply for mod'ship?Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDeath
Get that nice ban hammer in your hands and do it all proper!
The truth is that sometimes it's impossible to listen to the whims of fans. Constructive and detailed criticism is one thing, but random whims and wishes are another. If Fan A wants something nerfed and a bunch of people agree, and others just get all angry about it and say, "hell no" but offer no real reason for not wanting it nerfed, they may actually nerf the thing. Then what can happen is along comes Fan B with real reasons why nerfing failed--and maybe makes him want to quit the game. In this case, Fan B has no choice but to see that Fan A bears some blame for this, some responsibility, but he also can put some of that blame on people that just used anger instead of actually using reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Escyos
I saw this with discussions over the Immunizers. People would give a lot of reasons for wanting them nerfed and were pointing to PvP problems. The dissenting opinions ranged from "you just suck" to "I paid a lot for my orange Immunizer--hell, no don't nerf it". I don't recall there being any good reasons for not nerfing it beyond the idea that PvP and PvE should be separate events.
Unless all fans can agree on appropriate ways to have conversations about this stuff and state their arguments for or against some point and not point the finger at a specific person, rather than that person's statements, devs will often just make their best guesses. I do put the blame on people (myself included) as it relates to their comments-we are responsible for what we say. So, I would say that some of the changes we have not liked are due to fans and what they've asked for, sometimes.
The broader point is that devs act like parents sometimes-trying to corral the children. They can't give the kids everything they want and can't constantly explain why not. But parents aren't going to respond well to a child who's just sitting in the corner screaming, "I hate you!" with anything like bottomless respect. And we are supposed to not be children-should try and at least explain our problems, and have every right to coherently and constructively state why what they're doing is not in our or their best interest. They don't have to agree with it or even act upon it, but they should seriously consider it.
But even adults do sometimes get overly frustrated at being ignored-and persistent issues make them lose it. Anyone who wants you to buy what they're selling has to accept that and deal with it responsibly as well. Sometimes the loudest screamer actually is telling you something worth listening too and it's always a good idea to pay attention when someone has that much emotion invested in your product.
The only ones left here are movie bots. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Sanguinesun
And I know you mean me and totally tried to take that out of context and then felt it was completely warranted for you and others to insult me in posts and then others to send me extremely vulgar messages about certain anatomical things. Anonymity on the internet makes some feel it's ok to treat other real people like garbage over disagreements about a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguinesun
I stand behind what I said and that was that some changes to weapons and things in the game were due to fan requests, so those that wanted them were partly to blame. I included myself as one of those who was to be blamed because there were things I said needed to be fixed. So in blaming fans, I blamed myself too. But you in all maturity, failed to see that because you had an agenda. It was to discredit anything I said.
I don't care if you agree with me or not, but assigning blame sometimes is warranted if providing an explanation.
And since you say you were someone who has moderated forums, I find your attitude appalling. Apparently it is ok with you to treat people badly just because you can.
I would love to hear an official response to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Echo
That's been a complaint voiced all over these forums for the longest time-and it could even merely be addressed by using the same system they have for contracts and pursuits at a minimum.Quote:
Originally Posted by N3gativeCr33p
I know I've created and posted in several threads, also sent feedback in game about this and nothing, not a word about it ever.
Unfortunately that won't happen. If history, both worldwide and on this forum, is any indication the fans (although one might class many of them as haters) will never agree on anything. Pretty much everyone (in the world) is a selfish person who feels that their opinion makes them right or their money gives them the right to have as much say in something and that is how we always will be (At least here on Earth, things change for the humans that move to Mars in 2022, I have a time machine I know these things)Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Echo
What? I'm a movie bot?... damn, sorry guys, didn't mean to fall down on the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceberg
ok, so watch
Lifeforce http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089489/
The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086856/
The Thing (1982 remake not that crao from 2011) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084787/
The Lion in Winter http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063227/
Much Ado About Nothing (Sorry Josh, I liked yours but Kenneth's is better.) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107616/
I'll get more in as I can, are there rules for performance? Don't want to let down the team!
So many times, it is like we get burned.
I want this game to succeed.
Please help us out, Trion.
I'd prefer not to classify anyone that way-I don't generally like such things and have had it done to me. I'm not pointing a finger at you, but at everyone. I've been called a fanboi here and a hater elsewhere, and neither is accurate at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Escyos
A lot of people can dislike what's happening to something they like and be called names and others can like something and not ignore the flaws and be called fanboi (or other names in posts and in PMs). I don't play that way.
I won't hate real people over inanimate objects. I don't hate people for other harsher things so video games-no way. I will defend forever the right of anyone to complain over a product they bought, but I also believe everyone should have some foundation based in reality.
It's why I won't say Trion is the worst game company ever and Defiance the worst game-it's not true for me. I won't say they've never fixed anything because they have. And I won't claim they must give me anything-I take responsibility for mistakes I make. If buying a Season Pass ends up being one, it was my mistake. I bought vaporware. If they fail to deliver on it, I will do what I can at that time.
Right now, I'm unhappy with things that I am seeing and what's going on in my game. I've always seen that others have had issues and said it needed to be fixed. It now needs to be fixed for me as well-and they need to consider adding more fluff that creates more lag and that really is nothing new for the game. Their twitch video didn't encourage me since as it is DLC1 is unplayable far too often right now. DLC2 threatens to add even more that will stop the game dead in its tracks for many people at least on the xbox and from what I'm hearing on the PS3 as well.
I used to be able to honestly say the game was fun for me and mostly playable-it is tipping in the other direction and the fun is wearing out. I am not encouraged by the actual lack of sense that Trick made in his post about why they're adding on a layer of crap in order to give us grenades that we already have. It isn't so much about grenades but it is about the question of WHY? His reasons make no sense, respectfully. So, I'm not cynical. I'm rather disgusted and annoyed-that of all the things they could have done and then shown they chose grenades and arkfalls.
At this point, complaining seems to make the most sense.
eventually they'll realize that angry customers take their business elsewhere.
Smokey,
You would think that sound logic like that would apply, right?
"Angry customers take their business elsewhere"? Sure, angry customers do.
An angry GAMER who loves a game and wants it to be good, to live up to It's potential, or to live up to the initial investment that the gamer made in the game as a prospect (150$ for the ultimate edition or whatever and 60$ for the reserve copy at release) and that gamer can see and believe in the product's ability/potential to improve.
I would hazard to say that our presence here is evidence of that because We care about Defiance enough to voice our opinion here on the forum.
it has been said on a thread or two the the main idea with Defiance is to keep it "semi-working", kind of half-@$$ and limping along up to a certain point at which time Trion Worlds will come down and put a slug in It's head and send It on to the glue factory.
I suppose that thed customer/customers can be as angry as they wish but ........
It wouldn't make one whit of a difference.
Aren't You sad now? I was a too but It has passed.
Patience, young grasshopper. Game isnt even 6 month old.
I'm reasonably certain that in a product that's been through alpha and beta testing, and is for sale on the open market, and even has a shop to spend real money on in game junk, that excuse doesn't fly. Actually, I'm absolutely certain it doesn't fly. I didn't play $100+ for the displeasure of being a beta tester for Trion while they try to figure out how Blizzard did their MMO so very well for so very long. At this point I'd rather they put all the DLC2 stuff on hold and actually fix the problems that exist in the game now, and make sure those problems don't happen again every time they release a DLC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiancee
A well conditioned and institutionalized form complacency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiancee
The one thing that is not understood by a lot of business people but should at least be extremely obvious to game devs--is that over the top anger often stems from actually liking and being incredibly disappointed by a product.Quote:
Originally Posted by CRIXDA
The old saying is "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"--applying that here it means people who really liked the game are upset by the wasted potential. Anger stems from a kind of "love".
They do not give half a ****, you could literally offer to mail them a gold ingot of idea's, marketing strategies, development skill... All the things they lack, and they would go "Ehhh we better stick to what we're doing now."
Indra, You are absolutely correct and You and I and Valaska have had this conversation before (and probably will again)
The sad thing is, WE AREN'T LEARNING YET.
Sure, like Fiancee said "the Game isn't yet six months old" but honestly, that isn't the point at all.
With a six month old game, all of the bugs and errors that We have dealt with and endured since LAUNCH DAY SIX MONTHS AGO and have had zero resolution on have built up so much apathy, frustration and rage.