And the winner of the cross over to the show is....

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09-23-2013, 11:34 PM
Beck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escyos

It's a legal thing. Simple as that.

Well no, not really that simple. Their are nuances. In some places you can own your character name, you an even own all the items you carry too. The ToS/EULA does not supersede the laws of any given country, state or province. The U.S. was just a few years ago looking at taxing the in game value of peoples accounts because Gold Selling is a Billion ($1,000,000,000) industry and that value is for virtual goods. The big issue was how to keep track of it all (audit) and then tax players accordingly. It was suggested a flat $2/month per subscription/account would be fair to cover the bases. However the gaming companies would sooner shut down their servers than let YOU or I own our oranges and purples and then sell them for real world money.

To say it is a legal thing and not try and understand the nuances is like trying to run a Defiance Wiki and say it is the most comprehensive resource but leaves out the community entirely that actually makes the game go... oh.. wait.

Playful jabs.

Build a fan site section. You are missing out on the biggest part of the game world. The people who play it and keep it alive.
09-24-2013, 12:42 AM
Escyos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beck

Well no, not really that simple. Their are nuances. In some places you can own your character name, you an even own all the items you carry too. The ToS/EULA does not supersede the laws of any given country, state or province. The U.S. was just a few years ago looking at taxing the in game value of peoples accounts because Gold Selling is a Billion ($1,000,000,000) industry and that value is for virtual goods. The big issue was how to keep track of it all (audit) and then tax players accordingly. It was suggested a flat $2/month per subscription/account would be fair to cover the bases. However the gaming companies would sooner shut down their servers than let YOU or I own our oranges and purples and then sell them for real world money.

Its still a legal thing, I didn't mean a simple legal thing, just that the concept that the contest was ruled by law was simple.

Quote:

To say it is a legal thing and not try and understand the nuances is like trying to run a Defiance Wiki and say it is the most comprehensive resource but leaves out the community entirely that actually makes the game go... oh.. wait.

Playful jabs.

Build a fan site section. You are missing out on the biggest part of the game world. The people who play it and keep it alive.

It still adds nothing to the story of Defiance, saying that it plays a part in the community does nothing to the story itself. It won't be included, for the same reason that fan characters won't be included.
09-24-2013, 02:44 AM
Sanguinesun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escyos

It still adds nothing to the story of Defiance, saying that it plays a part in the community does nothing to the story itself. It won't be included, for the same reason that fan characters won't be included.

Wait, you're saying that you dont include fan sites to the wiki?

Congratulations. That takes some special kind of silly(Dahanese's meaning of the word) since, you know, almost every other one out there for games very much does include community projects, fansites and more.

For example:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Portal:Main
http://dcuniverseonline.wikia.com/wi...se_Online_Wiki
http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

And before you go off on saying its not a Trion related thing with those examples:

http://rift.wikia.com/wiki/RIFT_Wiki
http://telarapedia.gamepedia.com/Rift_Wiki

Honestly, though the wiki's relevance is small considering the dwindling relevance of the game for many anyways but to alienate community aspects of the game out of some strange personal reasons in the matter I think helps to further hasten the lack your wiki's relevancy overall.

At least on one hand though, your actions are consistent with the manner by which the community as a whole continues to be regarded even officially. :rolleyes:
09-24-2013, 02:51 AM
Escyos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

Wait, you're saying that you dont include fan sites to the wiki?

Congratulations. That takes some special kind of silly(Dahanese's meaning of the word) since, you know, almost every other one out there for games very much does include community projects, fansites and more.

For example:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Portal:Main
http://dcuniverseonline.wikia.com/wi...se_Online_Wiki
http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

And before you go off on saying its not a Trion related thing with those examples:

http://rift.wikia.com/wiki/RIFT_Wiki
http://telarapedia.gamepedia.com/Rift_Wiki

Honestly, though the wiki's relevance is small considering the dwindling relevance of the game for many anyways but to alienate community aspects of the game out of some strange personal reasons in the matter I think helps to further hasten the lack your wiki's relevancy overall.

At least on one hand though, your actions are consistent with the manner by which the community as a whole continues to be regarded even officially. :rolleyes:

Did you read what I wrote? It adds NOTHING to the story of Defiance. Defiance Wiki is an encyclopedia on the Defiance universe written (mostly) as if it is occurring in the real world.

I am more than happy to exchange links with other sites (that is I post links to them and they do the same) but articles about the site itself does not fit in. Some official sites do but not fan sites.

BTW Linking to Wikia sites seriously makes your comment look like a joke. Wikia is a joke of a site and should be completely disregarded.
09-24-2013, 02:54 AM
Escyos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

Honestly, though the wiki's relevance is small considering the dwindling relevance of the game for many anyways but to alienate community aspects of the game out of some strange personal reasons in the matter I think helps to further hasten the lack your wiki's relevancy overall.

Also considering that I need to pay for high quality hosting and the traffic is still very high, your point is moot.
09-24-2013, 03:15 AM
Sanguinesun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escyos

Did you read what I wrote? It adds NOTHING to the story of Defiance. Defiance Wiki is an encyclopedia on the Defiance universe written (mostly) as if it is occurring in the real world.

Right. But about a third of your site seemingly isnt. A couple of examples:

A production section devoted to discussing the actors and actresses?
http://en.defiance-wiki.com/wiki/Category:Production

Or a media section on the soundtrack, hellbug figurine, seasons pass and collectors edition stuff?
http://en.defiance-wiki.com/wiki/Category:Media

I guess two thirds can qualify for mostly, sure. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escyos

I am more than happy to exchange links with other sites (that is I post links to them and they do the same) but articles about the site itself does not fit in. Some official sites do but not fan sites.

Showed the contradictions above... (mostly).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escyos

BTW Linking to Wikia sites seriously makes your comment look like a joke.

Well that is understandable since one such exists for Defiance that I didnt mention that of course conflicts with your agenda for your site.

Look, we all get it, you're less interested in inclusivity with any remnants of the community of players and prefer more your exclusivity in feeling that you are maintaining the purity and "integrity" of your site.

At least various wikia sites include and welcome the community of players and all to contribute to them. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escyos

Wikia is a joke of a site and should be completely disregarded.

Perhaps, but I can think of one site off the top of my head which both exemplifies and justifies those considerations more appropriately.:rolleyes:
09-24-2013, 04:44 AM
Escyos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

Right. But about a third of your site seemingly isnt. A couple of examples:

A production section devoted to discussing the actors and actresses?
http://en.defiance-wiki.com/wiki/Category:Production

Or a media section on the soundtrack, hellbug figurine, seasons pass and collectors edition stuff?
http://en.defiance-wiki.com/wiki/Category:Media

I guess two thirds can qualify for mostly, sure. :rolleyes:

Yes because most of that stuff adds to Defiance as it IS/WAS PART OF IT! A site which is neither owned nor endorsed by Trion/Syfy does not qualify, simple as that.

Quote:

Well that is understandable since one such exists for Defiance that I didnt mention that of course conflicts with your agenda for your site.

I have NO fear of that joke of a wiki they have, the people who run it couldn't tell a Sensoth from a Volge.

Quote:

Look, we all get it, you're less interested in inclusivity with any remnants of the community of players and prefer more your exclusivity in feeling that you are maintaining the purity and "integrity" of your site.

I'm all for being a part of the community, what I am not for it creating articles that have no substance to them, that have nothing to do with the Defiance universe etc.

Quote:

At least various wikia sites include and welcome the community of players and all to contribute to them. :rolleyes:

99% of people that use wikia are idiots. They assume they are doing something good when all they are doing is contributing to the bank accounts of wikia and the staff know this so they force changes on the community who barely fight them on that and spam each page with ads.

Quote:

Perhaps, but I can think of one site off the top of my head which both exemplifies and justifies those considerations more appropriately.:rolleyes:

The fact of the matter is that I own Defiance Wiki and I get to choose what belongs on it. I don't care what other wikis are doing, I don't care that some persons site feels they should be on there. My site does VERY well on its own without links from partner sites, these forums themselves provided a MASSIVE amount of my traffic with individual sites only putting one or two links in a week.
09-24-2013, 05:02 AM
Rumeyes

You guys know this Defiance K-TAM vs. Defiance Wiki fighting is totally off-topic right?

- K-tam, good initiative for this game, but no support from the game like say, the Secret World.
- Wiki, good initiative for this game, it's a wiki page like so many others on the interwebs.

The wiki guy doesn't want to add links to your radiostation, thats fine. I compare it with TSW's wiki, you don't see any links to playersites there either. You go however to the most used guidesite for TSW unfair.co, then there most playermedia are listed. I feel wiki sites usually appear to be a bit more static then organic anyway when it comes to information.

Get off your high horse, I am already glad we got things like this. You are rolling in the mud for nothing.
09-24-2013, 12:31 PM
Beck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rumeyes

You guys know this Defiance K-TAM vs. Defiance Wiki fighting is totally off-topic right?

- K-tam, good initiative for this game, but no support from the game like say, the Secret World. [Multiple interviews with Defiance Staff is definitely a show of support from the game.]
- Wiki, good initiative for this game, it's a wiki page like so many others on the interwebs. [no support from the game]

The wiki guy doesn't want to add links to your radiostation, thats fine. I compare it with TSW's wiki, you don't see any links to playersites there either. You go however to the most used guidesite for TSW unfair.co, then there most playermedia are listed. I feel wiki sites usually appear to be a bit more static then organic anyway when it comes to information.

Get off your high horse, I am already glad we got things like this. You are rolling in the mud for nothing.

K-TAM is not part of the argument between Sanguinesun and Escyos

That being said Escyos is wrong about this "I'm all for being a part of the community, what I am not for it creating articles that have no substance to them, that have nothing to do with the Defiance universe etc."

The immersive nature of K-TAM has been credited many times over with keeping people in the universe of Defiance. We have created content and used lore/cannon to create fictional products that could or do exist in the game. Sure some stuff is meant to be funny and juvenile but we also put serious effort into the actual story lines, and we have access to the two people who created it all, which I think trumps any argument made that K-TAM does not have anything to do with the Defiance Universe. Had you bothered to be listening or even talk with us you would know a heck of a lot more about the universe and where it was intended to go pre-syfy take over of writing the story line. You would know who the big bad baddie is already since you seem to think you can read between the lines so well. I drop hints like 9 pound hammers. I have an entire glossary section from Defiance to work off of and let me tell you, you have some info that is definitely wrong.

I think the debate here is that Escyos thinks he has all the facts, which I think Sanguinesun is trying to tell him he doesn't. They both have good points, but the point that I think was made was Sanguinesun pointing out Escoyos own inconsistencies in what he is saying and what is actually on his site.

I have nothing to do with that debate and Sanguinesun does not represent K-TAM. But his points are valid. Even to the point that "...fan characters won't be included." Yet he did so with this contest. Does he have the permission of the winner to use their name? We still have no proof this person even exists and isn't a complete plant.

The point I have been making is he is dismissing Fan sites out of hand and not actually talking with anyone to see who/where their sources are for their information. This is arrogance and it is plain to see in this conversation there is a lot of it. K-TAM works with other fan sites and clans, we appreciate what they bring to the Defiance Universe, are grateful they want to be involved with us. If there was no community there would be no fan sites and no fan sites means less people know about the game and less people who know about the game the less people who know about any Wiki and "doing quite well" would be doing nothing at all.

This all being said Escyos is right in saying it is his site, he can do what he wants which is why I have not pursued the matter further. I will even defend his right to operate his site the way he feels it should be run, even if I do not agree with him because I see things from a different perspective.
09-24-2013, 03:56 PM
Cavadus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escyos

A site which is neither owned nor endorsed by Trion/Syfy does not qualify, simple as that.

How do you ratonalize the Defiance Central links on the bottom of your main page's wiki?

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