And the winner of the cross over to the show is....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rumeyes

Where we clearly disagree is your belief that a player who tops nr.1 should be chosen, even though rules clearly state it can be any of the top 5. Maybe the nr.1 was ugly as hell (although Irathien makeup solves a lot), maybe the nr.1 did not fit the demography of what they are looking for as a person, maybe the nr.1 did not fit the character profile they prepared in advance.

I can think of so many reasons to pick or not pick a nr. 1, but I find your argument "Community clearly picked nr.1, so it has to be nr.1" far from sound. I feel we might have to agree to disagree on that point.

---

My point is not that the most votes should have won, first and second were about 300 votes separate, 3rd was another 200 ish votes. This is a contest that is giving the implication that the community gets to make the majority of the choices, to interact with the show, but when the back stories are not random or player written all the community involvement is marginalized. It gives the impression that the contest was fixed to some degree. Was it? We will never know. But with how Trion and Syfy have been handling things so far I would say it is more likely to be a fix and it is not unreasonable to think that. Which by its self is a really bad thing to say, that people can reasonably agree that this could have been fixed.

Am I accusing anyone of a fix? No, I am just saying how this is being handled it has a smell.

No one has yet to see a post by the winner anywhere. No mention on the Friday live stream or anything about it. You would think with something like this you would make it big, an event, a celebration that the community gets a direct tie in to the TV show.

Just sayin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Escyos

If information in those interviews does not appear to add anything to the canon of Defiance. That is the consequence I was talking about.

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A lot of the stuff with Tony Vhalen, and Matt Mower the lore designer, and a writer respectively is very relevant to the lore. Depending on your perspective. Trick also has gone into lore being as he is the creative lead. I have stated i will let the listener decide the relevance. If there is nothing of consequence available for you that's fine, maybe our next interview will be of more interest to you.

Redo the math hindsight shoulda been on the show because he's like = that much better. Yeah I said it...

Congratulations Alethia.
I hope there are going to be more game to show players i have been real busy trying to loosing weight for the show. I would love to be on there and I love the game and the show. I have lost 75 pounds already and will keep walking 3miles a day till I get to my ideal weight or till I do good anough to be picked. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gidian

Congratulations Alethia.
I hope there are going to be more game to show players i have been real busy trying to loosing weight for the show. I would love to be on there and I love the game and the show. I have lost 75 pounds already and will keep walking 3miles a day till I get to my ideal weight or till I do good anough to be picked. :)

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....the person's character is going to be on the show, not them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dracian

And not only to US residents, too... I'm pretty sure some people even in Canada would have been glad to participate.

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I have to wander about this popularity contest these people are talking about. If they could make it so you could actually talk to other people on your headset, I might actually know what is going on half the time. I'm thinking these people don't want you to talk to the Canadians. I am Canadian and yes I would like to be more involved. I've been playing from the beginning, Moya and I have never been able to talk to each other or anyone else. What can I say I'm pretty good at killing but it doesn't make me popular. ....is it because I'm Canadian.....mmmm, Or just because I'm forced to fight alone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Escyos

...Defiance Wiki is ... not affiliated with Trion or Syfy and so ... the same rules... may include...them.

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No offense but um, irony is a *****.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TigrisMorte

No offense but um, irony is a *****.

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Nice, Shakespeare, indeed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arsenic_Touch

....the person's character is going to be on the show, not them.

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Oh wait, I was mistaken then. So only a character name gets chosen with a specific backstory that gets written into the show? Well that shouldn't be too hard for the writers to implement, no matter what direction you pitch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beck

This is a contest that is giving the implication that the community gets to make the majority of the choices, to interact with the show, but when the back stories are not random or player written all the community involvement is marginalized.

---

I understand your point now. If the backstory already was fixed the only addendum this contest makes is the reference of a player nametag in the show. I stand corrected, this change should greatly diminish the value of the contest indeed.

Even if the backstory would not have been fixed by the writers of the show and this together with a player nametag would have been introduced, I would not find this very impressive. In a main storyarc you can build actions of a side-plot with whatever backstory that sideline character has.

I see cross content as decisions happening in the show that effect the game and vice versa. Everything I've seen up untill now did not strike me with awe. This contest included. You build a show, you make a game, you gather $$$. They are more standalone then you'd hope them to be.

I haven't seen story influence capabilities built in the game which effects the show. But if you don't even have the possibility to let player actions influence the storyline of the game (because there just isn't that in Defiance), how will you make that work from game to show? Easy answer: You don't. Let us see what is promised:

"Experience dynamic missions, massive co-op battles, and endless exploration across a gigantic game environment. Plus, brought to you by Syfy, the Defiance TV series is a revolutionary weekly drama that impacts the game, and gives you the chance to change the show."

1. Dynamic missions = Episode quests - check.
2. Drama impacts game = Plague event - check.
3. Change the show = this contest - check.

If you expect more then above mentioned, looking at the trackrecord you are just being incredibly silly (although I do hope that Trion/Syfy actually do this and then it will ROCK!). Looks like they are too busy keeping Defiance rolling, on the different platforms and on-screen.

I wouldn't expect anything innovative on the cross content. Every box is checked. If they give us a 3rd DLC with a quest including 2 min of cutscenes and 5 datarecorders they are well covered.

The contest's details and stages were for the most part simply an illusion. The audience was given the impression that x was random, y was the audiences choice etc etc. But really all there were was false shuffles, a switch or two, and the results were as expected and intended by magician.

Penn and Teller could do it better at least with false reveals and some fake dismemberment or injury to boot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gidian

Congratulations Alethia.
I hope there are going to be more game to show players i have been real busy trying to loosing weight for the show. I would love to be on there and I love the game and the show. I have lost 75 pounds already and will keep walking 3miles a day till I get to my ideal weight or till I do good anough to be picked. :)

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arsenic_Touch

....the person's character is going to be on the show, not them.

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The best thing I have read on this forum today. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spiltmilk

The best thing I have read on this forum today. :D

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Makes me wonder why they put a limit on for only NA players if it was only a character name and bio..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rumeyes

Makes me wonder why they put a limit on for only NA players if it was only a character name and bio..

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Because while the marketing value of advertising it around the world exists, the compliance and liability issues with the laws of various countries etc makes it cost prohibitive due to the legal folks they'd have to put on retainer to handle them all. At least that's what one of their folks said once. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

Because while the marketing value of advertising it around the world exists, the compliance and liability issues with the laws of various countries etc makes it cost prohibitive due to the legal folks they'd have to put on retainer to handle them all. At least that's what one of their folks said once. :rolleyes:

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Don't they wave something along the lines of "you participate and your concept/idea becomes ours"?

There are MMO's out there that do contests for ingame art, I don't see any restrictions there..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rumeyes

Don't they wave something along the lines of "you participate and your concept/idea becomes ours"?

There are MMO's out there that do contests for ingame art, I don't see any restrictions there..

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Because you are assuming from an ethnocentric stand point that all countries have the same restrictions etc. They dont and even something that can seem innocuous as what you've stated above can be contentious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rumeyes

Makes me wonder why they put a limit on for only NA players if it was only a character name and bio..

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It's a legal thing. Simple as that.

Were we supposed to get an email about voting, or were we supposed to look for the poll in the same manner as an arkfall code?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Halloween

Were we supposed to get an email about voting, or were we supposed to look for the poll in the same manner as an arkfall code?

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The voting phase was done via facebook. It really didnt matter though.

Yeah.. this whole thing is a non-issue.

My character.. My name (that I've used for a LONG TIME).. My story line

No way in Grabthars Hammer would I let someone else.. ANYONE ELSE.. have any access to modify it in any way. Besides, I'm looking at Trade Marking my name for games (since some goober on Xbox Live US has it and thinks he's hot shtako!), so no way would I screw that up for some in-show wanted poster!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arsenic_Touch

....the person's character is going to be on the show, not them.

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If Nefarious got picked and someone else were to play him then I would refuse. I would delete my Character.

The only person that could do justice to play Nefarious would be me. Because Im the only one that knows what goes on in his head. On how he perceives things and how he goes about doing stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Escyos

It's a legal thing. Simple as that.

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Well no, not really that simple. Their are nuances. In some places you can own your character name, you an even own all the items you carry too. The ToS/EULA does not supersede the laws of any given country, state or province. The U.S. was just a few years ago looking at taxing the in game value of peoples accounts because Gold Selling is a Billion ($1,000,000,000) industry and that value is for virtual goods. The big issue was how to keep track of it all (audit) and then tax players accordingly. It was suggested a flat $2/month per subscription/account would be fair to cover the bases. However the gaming companies would sooner shut down their servers than let YOU or I own our oranges and purples and then sell them for real world money.

To say it is a legal thing and not try and understand the nuances is like trying to run a Defiance Wiki and say it is the most comprehensive resource but leaves out the community entirely that actually makes the game go... oh.. wait.

Playful jabs.

Build a fan site section. You are missing out on the biggest part of the game world. The people who play it and keep it alive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beck

Well no, not really that simple. Their are nuances. In some places you can own your character name, you an even own all the items you carry too. The ToS/EULA does not supersede the laws of any given country, state or province. The U.S. was just a few years ago looking at taxing the in game value of peoples accounts because Gold Selling is a Billion ($1,000,000,000) industry and that value is for virtual goods. The big issue was how to keep track of it all (audit) and then tax players accordingly. It was suggested a flat $2/month per subscription/account would be fair to cover the bases. However the gaming companies would sooner shut down their servers than let YOU or I own our oranges and purples and then sell them for real world money.

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Its still a legal thing, I didn't mean a simple legal thing, just that the concept that the contest was ruled by law was simple.

Quote:

---

To say it is a legal thing and not try and understand the nuances is like trying to run a Defiance Wiki and say it is the most comprehensive resource but leaves out the community entirely that actually makes the game go... oh.. wait.

Playful jabs.

Build a fan site section. You are missing out on the biggest part of the game world. The people who play it and keep it alive.

---

It still adds nothing to the story of Defiance, saying that it plays a part in the community does nothing to the story itself. It won't be included, for the same reason that fan characters won't be included.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Escyos

It still adds nothing to the story of Defiance, saying that it plays a part in the community does nothing to the story itself. It won't be included, for the same reason that fan characters won't be included.

---

Wait, you're saying that you dont include fan sites to the wiki?

Congratulations. That takes some special kind of silly(Dahanese's meaning of the word) since, you know, almost every other one out there for games very much does include community projects, fansites and more.

For example:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Portal:Main
http://dcuniverseonline.wikia.com/wi...se_Online_Wiki
http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

And before you go off on saying its not a Trion related thing with those examples:

http://rift.wikia.com/wiki/RIFT_Wiki
http://telarapedia.gamepedia.com/Rift_Wiki

Honestly, though the wiki's relevance is small considering the dwindling relevance of the game for many anyways but to alienate community aspects of the game out of some strange personal reasons in the matter I think helps to further hasten the lack your wiki's relevancy overall.

At least on one hand though, your actions are consistent with the manner by which the community as a whole continues to be regarded even officially. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

Wait, you're saying that you dont include fan sites to the wiki?

Congratulations. That takes some special kind of silly(Dahanese's meaning of the word) since, you know, almost every other one out there for games very much does include community projects, fansites and more.

For example:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Portal:Main
http://dcuniverseonline.wikia.com/wi...se_Online_Wiki
http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

And before you go off on saying its not a Trion related thing with those examples:

http://rift.wikia.com/wiki/RIFT_Wiki
http://telarapedia.gamepedia.com/Rift_Wiki

Honestly, though the wiki's relevance is small considering the dwindling relevance of the game for many anyways but to alienate community aspects of the game out of some strange personal reasons in the matter I think helps to further hasten the lack your wiki's relevancy overall.

At least on one hand though, your actions are consistent with the manner by which the community as a whole continues to be regarded even officially. :rolleyes:

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Did you read what I wrote? It adds NOTHING to the story of Defiance. Defiance Wiki is an encyclopedia on the Defiance universe written (mostly) as if it is occurring in the real world.

I am more than happy to exchange links with other sites (that is I post links to them and they do the same) but articles about the site itself does not fit in. Some official sites do but not fan sites.

BTW Linking to Wikia sites seriously makes your comment look like a joke. Wikia is a joke of a site and should be completely disregarded.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

Honestly, though the wiki's relevance is small considering the dwindling relevance of the game for many anyways but to alienate community aspects of the game out of some strange personal reasons in the matter I think helps to further hasten the lack your wiki's relevancy overall.

---

Also considering that I need to pay for high quality hosting and the traffic is still very high, your point is moot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Escyos

Did you read what I wrote? It adds NOTHING to the story of Defiance. Defiance Wiki is an encyclopedia on the Defiance universe written (mostly) as if it is occurring in the real world.

---

Right. But about a third of your site seemingly isnt. A couple of examples:

A production section devoted to discussing the actors and actresses?
http://en.defiance-wiki.com/wiki/Category:Production

Or a media section on the soundtrack, hellbug figurine, seasons pass and collectors edition stuff?
http://en.defiance-wiki.com/wiki/Category:Media

I guess two thirds can qualify for mostly, sure. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Escyos

I am more than happy to exchange links with other sites (that is I post links to them and they do the same) but articles about the site itself does not fit in. Some official sites do but not fan sites.

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Showed the contradictions above... (mostly).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Escyos

BTW Linking to Wikia sites seriously makes your comment look like a joke.

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Well that is understandable since one such exists for Defiance that I didnt mention that of course conflicts with your agenda for your site.

Look, we all get it, you're less interested in inclusivity with any remnants of the community of players and prefer more your exclusivity in feeling that you are maintaining the purity and "integrity" of your site.

At least various wikia sites include and welcome the community of players and all to contribute to them. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Escyos

Wikia is a joke of a site and should be completely disregarded.

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Perhaps, but I can think of one site off the top of my head which both exemplifies and justifies those considerations more appropriately.:rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

Right. But about a third of your site seemingly isnt. A couple of examples:

A production section devoted to discussing the actors and actresses?
http://en.defiance-wiki.com/wiki/Category:Production

Or a media section on the soundtrack, hellbug figurine, seasons pass and collectors edition stuff?
http://en.defiance-wiki.com/wiki/Category:Media

I guess two thirds can qualify for mostly, sure. :rolleyes:

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Yes because most of that stuff adds to Defiance as it IS/WAS PART OF IT! A site which is neither owned nor endorsed by Trion/Syfy does not qualify, simple as that.

Quote:

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Well that is understandable since one such exists for Defiance that I didnt mention that of course conflicts with your agenda for your site.

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I have NO fear of that joke of a wiki they have, the people who run it couldn't tell a Sensoth from a Volge.

Quote:

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Look, we all get it, you're less interested in inclusivity with any remnants of the community of players and prefer more your exclusivity in feeling that you are maintaining the purity and "integrity" of your site.

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I'm all for being a part of the community, what I am not for it creating articles that have no substance to them, that have nothing to do with the Defiance universe etc.

Quote:

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At least various wikia sites include and welcome the community of players and all to contribute to them. :rolleyes:

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99% of people that use wikia are idiots. They assume they are doing something good when all they are doing is contributing to the bank accounts of wikia and the staff know this so they force changes on the community who barely fight them on that and spam each page with ads.

Quote:

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Perhaps, but I can think of one site off the top of my head which both exemplifies and justifies those considerations more appropriately.:rolleyes:

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The fact of the matter is that I own Defiance Wiki and I get to choose what belongs on it. I don't care what other wikis are doing, I don't care that some persons site feels they should be on there. My site does VERY well on its own without links from partner sites, these forums themselves provided a MASSIVE amount of my traffic with individual sites only putting one or two links in a week.

You guys know this Defiance K-TAM vs. Defiance Wiki fighting is totally off-topic right?

- K-tam, good initiative for this game, but no support from the game like say, the Secret World.
- Wiki, good initiative for this game, it's a wiki page like so many others on the interwebs.

The wiki guy doesn't want to add links to your radiostation, thats fine. I compare it with TSW's wiki, you don't see any links to playersites there either. You go however to the most used guidesite for TSW unfair.co, then there most playermedia are listed. I feel wiki sites usually appear to be a bit more static then organic anyway when it comes to information.

Get off your high horse, I am already glad we got things like this. You are rolling in the mud for nothing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rumeyes

You guys know this Defiance K-TAM vs. Defiance Wiki fighting is totally off-topic right?

- K-tam, good initiative for this game, but no support from the game like say, the Secret World. [Multiple interviews with Defiance Staff is definitely a show of support from the game.]
- Wiki, good initiative for this game, it's a wiki page like so many others on the interwebs. [no support from the game]

The wiki guy doesn't want to add links to your radiostation, thats fine. I compare it with TSW's wiki, you don't see any links to playersites there either. You go however to the most used guidesite for TSW unfair.co, then there most playermedia are listed. I feel wiki sites usually appear to be a bit more static then organic anyway when it comes to information.

Get off your high horse, I am already glad we got things like this. You are rolling in the mud for nothing.

---

K-TAM is not part of the argument between Sanguinesun and Escyos

That being said Escyos is wrong about this "I'm all for being a part of the community, what I am not for it creating articles that have no substance to them, that have nothing to do with the Defiance universe etc."

The immersive nature of K-TAM has been credited many times over with keeping people in the universe of Defiance. We have created content and used lore/cannon to create fictional products that could or do exist in the game. Sure some stuff is meant to be funny and juvenile but we also put serious effort into the actual story lines, and we have access to the two people who created it all, which I think trumps any argument made that K-TAM does not have anything to do with the Defiance Universe. Had you bothered to be listening or even talk with us you would know a heck of a lot more about the universe and where it was intended to go pre-syfy take over of writing the story line. You would know who the big bad baddie is already since you seem to think you can read between the lines so well. I drop hints like 9 pound hammers. I have an entire glossary section from Defiance to work off of and let me tell you, you have some info that is definitely wrong.

I think the debate here is that Escyos thinks he has all the facts, which I think Sanguinesun is trying to tell him he doesn't. They both have good points, but the point that I think was made was Sanguinesun pointing out Escoyos own inconsistencies in what he is saying and what is actually on his site.

I have nothing to do with that debate and Sanguinesun does not represent K-TAM. But his points are valid. Even to the point that "...fan characters won't be included." Yet he did so with this contest. Does he have the permission of the winner to use their name? We still have no proof this person even exists and isn't a complete plant.

The point I have been making is he is dismissing Fan sites out of hand and not actually talking with anyone to see who/where their sources are for their information. This is arrogance and it is plain to see in this conversation there is a lot of it. K-TAM works with other fan sites and clans, we appreciate what they bring to the Defiance Universe, are grateful they want to be involved with us. If there was no community there would be no fan sites and no fan sites means less people know about the game and less people who know about the game the less people who know about any Wiki and "doing quite well" would be doing nothing at all.

This all being said Escyos is right in saying it is his site, he can do what he wants which is why I have not pursued the matter further. I will even defend his right to operate his site the way he feels it should be run, even if I do not agree with him because I see things from a different perspective.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Escyos

A site which is neither owned nor endorsed by Trion/Syfy does not qualify, simple as that.

---

How do you ratonalize the Defiance Central links on the bottom of your main page's wiki?

As much as I hate taking threads off topic (I really do) I am no longer going to talk about this here. You people seem unable to understand my point but instead try to control what I do. I will now only talk about this matter to those who run KTAM. The only way a KTAM Radio site article will show up on the wiki is if I am dead and someone inherits the site from me.

Both can be arranged... Now, to find a champion and wait for Arena's to go PvP and challenge in ritualistic combat. I vote for Roshambo... to the death.

Kick-it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beck

The immersive nature of K-TAM has been credited many times over with keeping people in the universe of Defiance. We have created content and used lore/cannon to create fictional products that could or do exist in the game. Sure some stuff is meant to be funny and juvenile but we also put serious effort into the actual story lines, and we have access to the two people who created it all, which I think trumps any argument made that K-TAM does not have anything to do with the Defiance Universe. Had you bothered to be listening or even talk with us you would know a heck of a lot more about the universe and where it was intended to go pre-syfy take over of writing the story line. You would know who the big bad baddie is already since you seem to think you can read between the lines so well. I drop hints like 9 pound hammers. I have an entire glossary section from Defiance to work off of and let me tell you, you have some info that is definitely wrong.

---

Was some of that info meant for me? You are missing my point. Take the argument to another thread.

The fact you might know more about the Defiance universe doesn't mean you have to inflate your EGO (pun intended) onto the forum. The Wiki guy doesnt wanna, the other guy is whining. Furthermore, I never dissed about K-TAM, but if you want to talk about what support of a game to a radiostation can do I can name the following examples:

- contests with prizes (handed out by Trion for you to give away),
- parties ingame where occasionally GM's or CM's show up for fun,
- PVP-tournaments that are held periodically with Trion prizes where you are present to promote,
- events that occur get promoted by you and vice versa on the forum by Trion that you guys are there live,
- etc. etc. (now I must say usually the events are standard events like an anniversary but you get the idea)

Don't get me wrong, this game is still new, you guys are volunteers, and again, you are doing a great job, but don't think Trion is working extremely hard to get the community ingame. I meant support in a tad broader context.

With an agenda on the site which shows interesting topics or planned shows, I might be able to tune in to get more info on Defiance, because I do like to know more about backstory, contests or other developments, but right now, yeah I don't.

The guy is contributing in his own way. Who are you to act like a complete @ss to belittle him like that?

So only the person's character name and likeness will be on the show, not the actual person or anything they themselves made up for their character.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Lady

So only the person's character name and likeness will be on the show, not the actual person or anything they themselves made up for their character.

---

Nope just the name, race and background everything else will be done by syfy. I think they heired an actress already to play the character

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J_matt

Nope just the name, race and background everything else will be done by syfy. I think they heired an actress already to play the character

---

Actually just the name and race. The background was done by Syfy in phase 2 of the contest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Escyos

As much as I hate taking threads off topic (I really do) I am no longer going to talk about this here. You people seem unable to understand my point but instead try to control what I do. I will now only talk about this matter to those who run KTAM. The only way a KTAM Radio site article will show up on the wiki is if I am dead and someone inherits the site from me.

---

The Chantry teaches us that it was the hurbis of men which brought the darkspawn into our world. :rolleyes:

So basically they are going to have an arkhunter character on an episode of season two. So they can promote the awesome game / show tie in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Lady

So basically they are going to have an arkhunter character on an episode of season two. So they can promote the awesome game / show tie in.

---

To be honest at this point, I'd be surprised if they actually played it off as an arkhunter and not something else.

Since SyFy wrote the back story, they pretty much already know how they're going to make the character; because to be honest, that's what they're doing. Only "tie in" is that the contestant named the character they're going to use to fit SyFy's plans. Everything else from the get go has been SyFy's control. Its just a basic magician's use of misdirection to make the participants in the contest feel they had any significant influence to start with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

To be honest at this point, I'd be surprised if they actually played it off as an arkhunter and not something else.

---

Yeah, I would also be surprised. But I'm guessing the winner's character will be written as one of the TV show character's love interest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Escyos

Yes because most of that stuff adds to Defiance as it IS/WAS PART OF IT! A site which is neither owned nor endorsed by Trion/Syfy does not qualify, simple as that.



I have NO fear of that joke of a wiki they have, the people who run it couldn't tell a Sensoth from a Volge.



I'm all for being a part of the community, what I am not for it creating articles that have no substance to them, that have nothing to do with the Defiance universe etc.



99% of people that use wikia are idiots. They assume they are doing something good when all they are doing is contributing to the bank accounts of wikia and the staff know this so they force changes on the community who barely fight them on that and spam each page with ads.



The fact of the matter is that I own Defiance Wiki and I get to choose what belongs on it. I don't care what other wikis are doing, I don't care that some persons site feels they should be on there. My site does VERY well on its own without links from partner sites, these forums themselves provided a MASSIVE amount of my traffic with individual sites only putting one or two links in a week.

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Ive never even HEARD of your stupid wiki lol, sorry

KTAM has been here since day ONE, interviewing devs and staff, and providing a TON.

Don't be jealous because their site actually adds to the community, what a jealous sore person, wow.