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My reply was more general. Since ages, PvE players accuse PvP players to be the cause of every single nerf in the game. While I agree that some occured thanks to PvP, others only occured because of PvE. Best example : the SAW nerf. Same for the Wolfhound : if it is nerfed someday, it'll be also PvE's fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenic_Touch
BTW, anything that can give invulnerability in a game should be corrected/removed/adjusted. PvE or PvP are on the same level, here.
How about instead of trying to chant some positive mantras folks employ more critical approaches to the rhetoric.Quote:
Originally Posted by hygh
So again, you're placing the blame for the 5+ months of consistent issues and mismanagement of the game because its a "1st gen" with regards to their transmedia efforts with the show. You can't truly believe that and truly feel that it warrants explaining away virtually everything wrong with the game, how decisions by a company with another MMO under its belt are poorly made, and more and still keep a straight face, can you?
The reality is that your focus on giving it a label of "1st-gen, new, prime, or what ever you desire to call it" to excuse away the 5+ months of issues that plague the game is just, again, an illusionist's tool misdirection.
The issues with the game have little to nothing to do with their paltry transmedia attempts thus far. The issues with the game, as I stated before, lie primarily with the poor implementation of things and decisions by management on approach and design thus far.
Well given the above guy was trying to blame it on "1st gen" and another forumite the other month was trying to blame it on the fans, its no surprise. Anything to spin and deflect the issues away from poor design, implementation and community management.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenic_Touch
Can't wait to see what kind of reactions people have once these changes actually go live...
#justsaying
First of all, in a vain attempt to balance PvP and PvE, they have effectively screwed both areas. Separate servers and limited loadouts with no perks or EGO powers are needed in PvP, so that skill, and not a growing number of exploits and glitches, will be the determining factor in those contests. I don't play PvP in this game because it is so remarkably frustrating. If I desire PvP I will go into Black Ops II, where even with a few problems, there is a more balanced experience.
The single greatest issue with Defiance is the really thoughtless EGO and perk system. It might have sounded really cool in developers' meetings and on a spreadsheet, but in practice it is just horribly complicated, with a slew of unanticipated outcomes and exploits. The whole system of perks and EGO powers needs to be reconstructed with a much simpler premise. Those systems are at the crux of the majority of player issues in this game.
Trion is like a doctor that has a patient with multiple abrasions and contusions, but with a 9mm gunshot wound to the chest. This doctor rushes around applying band aids and salves to the abrasions, but applies no pressure to the sucking chest wound, so the patient expires. Nerf the weapons, change the grenades, cap the perk stacking...while all the time the real issue is the extremely poor EGO and perk system.
I played the beta and bought the game at full retail [$60.00]. I like the experience, and I do have fun, but the 'fun' factor is gradually diminishing. I'm on the cusp of just giving up. The new generation of consoles is fast approaching, and there are some really amazing games in the pipeline for them.
Finally a note to those players who are blessed with amazing twitch speed, excellent reflexes, and outstanding visual acuity...I am not you guys. This game is not too easy for me, and it's not too easy for the vast majority of players either. A player can make this game as challenging as they want it to be by simply removing EGOs and perks and just using melee on every enemy...so if the game is no challenge, then change up your character attributes to make it challenging for you, but don't make it so difficult for the average player [me] that those ordinary players just leave. You can set your own difficulty level, so do so. Frankly, I find real life to be about as challenging as I can handle, so I simply don't look for pain and frustration in a game, which I play for relaxation and fun.
Like I have stated before, if you want a real challenge, go play Dark Souls while closing one eye and using only your left hand...[ that game handed me my butt on a gilded platter ].
Forum posters are a vocal minority that care. Most players probably either.Quote:
Originally Posted by N3gativeCr33p
A: Won't even notice the change
B: Won't care
C: Get fed up and quit without ever telling anyone about it
Only if said doctor got their degree from a diploma mill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old97
I'm talking about people playing in-game. Of course forum posters are a vocal minority. This isn't my first time at the forum rodeo.Quote:
Originally Posted by hardy83
Just great don't tell me I joined a dying game. I love this game I kicked swtor to the curb for this, but all this talk about DR adjustments, I hope they don't change too much I like being "tankish". I work on building my survivability to a science, just as much as others build for their DPS output. I just started learning the curve of perks (thanks to the lack of tooltip info) such as how long does powers take to recharge (default) only cloak seems to address this what about Blur, etc.. If only one DR can be active at one time then there no need for Thick skin and C armor .
Bummer because that's my aim TS + CA + Detach + RG + more health + HD + FS + Hp Regen, even though most only active in certain situations I still want all of them. But I wont get my boxers in a bunch yet, I want to see those patch notes.
I'm going to chime in here.. and amazingly, I'm not going to throw out 2 of my more infamous gripes: I'm not blaming PvPers, and I'm not blaming console players.
This one is ALL DEV, and it's ALL FUBAR. This is NOT the fix that anyone on either side of the fence asked for. And what about those of us who DO NOT use those exploits and hacks huh? I've got a defensive build without one, and I've got an offensive build as well.. and being a CASUAL SHOOTER, I tend to eat dirt from time to time, normally when I'm not paying attention or when I go all overcharge-Rambo on Dark Matter. But I know why it happens.
This change however.. this is too much. You are now removing the ability for players who've spent a lot of time working on a good defensive build, without exploiting, in PvE to be at least nominal casual players. I frankly don't give a rats patootie that people want to claim how easy this game is; sure it is easy in some spots; but there are people who find the game hard, and their the ones who are still pumping money into this game while the "competitive gamers" are providing nothing more than hot air and twisted pixels on the forums. The reality is, PvE ONCE AGAIN gets to suffer for the ******s in PvP.
And yes.. I mean the ******s ONLY. There are some exceptional players here that do mainly PvP, and I've chatted with many of you, so your not lumped into this catetgory. Yes, you know who you are :) However.. since you've got PvP players cheating, and not only in PvP, but in PvE.. we all get nerfed now, yet again, instead of the Dev's providing a proper game mechanic fix to the issue.
I think that the nerf bat has swung it's final toll for me.
I wish everyone would stop blaming PVP players for the problems. I have been non stop complaining about this problem and never once suggested to nerf anything. The damage reduction problem was clearly a glitch/exploit/hack and not special circumstances that are provided by stacking perks. The damage reduction was constant. I wanted the problem fixed and addressed and for some reason this is the route Trion took. I also play PVE a lot and use a lot of defensive perks, but I will wait till next to see how this actually effects game play before judging.
The reason a lot of us like PVP is because of all the Perks, Ego abilities and weapons. If they all of a sudden separated the two and made standard loadouts this would just be another poor COD imitation. A lot of us have worked hard to grind and trade in PVE for very specific PVP gear and then it would all of sudden be completely worthless. I highly doubt many of the people advocating a PVP separation would then suddenly start to play PVP either. Changing PVP like that would be a complete nerf. PVE only players complain about nerfs to PVE a lot so why make the same argument in reverse?
I think this one might push me over the edge.
I've spent countless hours creating perfect loadouts and testing them to make sure they worked in the PvE world since that is the only place that really matters since the only reason people play PvP is to work on pursuits.
My favorite solo survivol set of:
Rear guard *
Thick Skin *
Detachment *
Failsafe *
Cell armor *
Hunker down *
Fortitude
Regeneration
Prepardness
is now worthless
I guess cell armor is now the go to reduction perk since it is always up and working.
Great news!!
Next will be Ego refresh abilities. I have a set of Cluster shots that I can keep my overcharge going forever and refresh my ego in about 9 seconds in arenas and arkfalls.
All for PvP fairness. Just scrap PvP alltogether. Then balance changes wouldn't be needed at all since I doubt you get to many complaints from the hell bug community
All these major changes makes me feel like I have been playing a 6 month Beta test that I paid $100 to help test.
Complete overhaul of:
Grenades
Perks
Lockboxes
Vendors
Mods
What the heck is going on over there? Who in the community was begging for these changes?
I've loved this game and defended it against all kinds of verbal attacks but I'm getting a little upset with all the functionality changes.
Whoever said to add a reduction cap to 75 - 85% was a genius. That is the best idea I have seen as a compromise.
Didn't see your post when I was typing mine. I agree with a lot of what you said in the whole post and appreciate a PVE player that can see the issue clearly.Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoCool
PvP "Players" or PvP "Cheaters"... I personally blame the cheaters.. I mean c'mon.. is cheating in a video game all someone can do to improve their epeen here? If you have to cheat or run exploits in a video game.. really.. c'mon.. what's that saying about someone's inbred lameness?Quote:
Originally Posted by ironcladtrash
And for the record on this one.. I am NOT blaming PvP players here.. this nerf is all the Dev's doing. From the feel of it, it's because they don't know what else to do to fix the issue. Now.. everyone get's to feel the pinch by something that started being exploited in PvP, and flowed over to PvE.. so yay.. another nerf instead of an honest fix.
Thanks.. this whole issue of nerfing things instead of fixing them.. it's getting old. I can't even cheer anymore for the possibility of a fix in the game when all they've become is nerfs. Some based in PvP.. some base in PvE after coming from PvP (like the invulnerability bug being used at Arkfalls.. I mean C"MON MAN! you have to WANT to get killed at an arkfall!).. it's just frustrating after all this time. I'm literally at the end of my rope.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironcladtrash
Well.. let's see. The community as a whole has been begging for the changes to Tier 4 drop rates for AGES. So that being bumped up is a good thing IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnyrides
The community has been asking for a FIX to the invulnerability bug that some are exploiting in both PvP and PvE.. unfortunately a nerf is not a fix. And I agree with you, the 75 - 86% hard cap on damage reduction is a genius idea.
The other changes.. I haven't seen anyone ever mention or ask for at all. They just don't need to be mucked with, but that's what we're getting.
Fix not Nerf should be their motto.Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoCool
I am really happy they are finally addressing the issue, although looks like poorly, because I was so livid after last Friday. I was ready to quit and looking for something else to play. There is still one issue that is being completely ignored though. They just let the blatant cheaters get away with it. They said they wouldn't take action against anyone using exploits and I'll just repost what I did earlier.
"I am not talking about people occasionally glitched. Sometimes that happens like the permanent invisibility problem. Any legitimate player if you tell them that will say "Thanks" and kill themselves to get rid of it. All the players I have seen been reported were nonstop abusing exploits and throwing it everyones face. "
The terms of service link is now fixed (it was broken for a bit) and exploits are supposed to be considered a major violation
https://support.trionworlds.com/app/...detail/a_id/97
This is crap! Sorry, I love this game and have ignored the haters so far, but c'mon! What iv'e seen in PVP is NOT clever perk builds. What's next? No modifiers stack? Lets make all rolls and perks obsolete. We can run around and pistol whip each other til they nerf that too.
It always amazes me how frequently developers decide to try and fix a problem in the worst, most destructive way possible.
They couldn't do diminishing returns - which would just lower the effectiveness of pure defensive builds but still allow them to be an option.
They couldn't put a cap - which would effectively have everything work how it does now, only make pure defensive builds not really possible
They pick the 'solution' that quite literally means that several perks will never be equipped in anyone's load-out ever again, and messes with some commonly used economical defensive schemes which may potentially make pve harder for some people.
I only equip a couple defensive perks so these changes wont effect me, but it basically makes it so i would never even consider using some of the weaker defensive perks in some sort of tank build now.
This of course could be fixed if they went in and now rebalanced the %s of the defensive perks to make the ones that were really only worth taking for stacking purposes more attractive as stand alones.
K, calmer.
If this happens it's bound to carry over to offensive perks to be "fair" , so double rolled gear won't matter anymore.
Also, in my experience this issue isn't "damage reduction". Last pvp I played, this guy... I saw the 141 dmg flying off the top of his head, and when his bugs killed me he was TOTALLY full health and shields. I'm used to getting killed in pvp but normally my efforts have some impact.
it is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by duction
again shut up I have proof it's a first gen game.
What do you mean by first gen?Quote:
Originally Posted by hygh
This game is a Magnavox Odyssey game?
If it is, MAN this game has some impressive graphics. lol
and as I can see another thread taken by bad aguements. there not even on topic
first time attempted.Quote:
Originally Posted by hardy83
defiance is a tv show and game that work in synthesis.
so Im a noob that has been playing since day one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguinesun
troll
No, you're just a noob that insists on making double and triple posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by hygh
Somebody needs a hug!
I am totally against this, but no one listens to the population. Keep reducing everything and there will be no one to play the game. They will, and have started, to leave.
So because we PvPers complained about a game bug where a legendary shield could be glitched to make the operator invulnerable this entire perk fiasco is our fault?
Sure :rolleyes:
AFAIC blame for nerfs is 1:1 at this point; PvPers got shotties nerfed and PvEers got SAWs nerfed. This perk stacking bull **** is from out of nowhere and NO ONE in the PvP community was asking for it. We just wanted the glitched shield fixed.
What you deign to designate yourself as has no relevance other than to have you continue to misdirect your fallacies that all the issues of the game should erroneously be blamed on it being "1st gen" . :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by hygh
oh god yes please !!!! Tired of this happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhide
"Here’s an example: If a player has both the Detachment perk (12% damage resist after kill) and Juggernaut perk (15% damage resistance after melee kill). Players will only have 15% damage resistance after a melee kill, not 27% due to stacking Detachment and Juggernaut. Mind, if you have the legendary weapon mastery for 12% damage reduction while reloading, and you reload after that melee kill, you’d still have a brief resistance of 27%. This could be magnified even higher by adding a shield bonus."
IMO, this is very unintuitive. New players already need a Rosetta Stone to figure out how some things work in the game (weapon exp vs. skill exp relationship is one example). A much simpler and easier to explain/understand solution would be to implement a total damage reduction cap (i.e. - 50% maximum regardless of sources).
Players with less HP & damage reduction buff means more tactical gameplay because player will be more vulnerable in which will make them THINK about approaching situations.
Wont be a good out look anymore for players to drive their quad right on top of a capture point, jump off, start unloading a grind fragger, and gain some kills in the positive ratio from doing so. How crazy is that? That happens. Players put themselves in the middle on purpose and it works.
Or chasing someone around the corner and ending up with a AR barrel in your face but still killing the guy because you are in full on tank mode. How crazy is that? That happens. So instead of utilizing tools you have you can just bum rush everyone because of all these buffs and reductions.
Now hopefully the AR and other mid to long range weapons will be able to shine now since they wont be doing insignificant pellet DMG at a distance on all these PvP tank Players which everyone rolls as.
As far as PvE goes, I don't think anyone is using a loadout with nothing but HP/dmg reduction buffs just to try and stay alive. And if that's the case then change your approach towards things. Its not hard to survey the area, snipe, then move in or whatever. Maybe launch a Decoy. So many things and tools not being used to survive. Everyone just expects to have a 400+ dmg SAW and run through everything while standing straight up like a bean stalk taking a 1000 rounds worth of DMG and not going down. However Trion decides to go about doing it, it will be good to see Ark Hunters being more human and less Terminator like.
Or they'll just glitch their shield so it never goes down and fight you with the exact same tactics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nefarious
Removing stacking abilities takes the fun of making combinations. Just scrap the entire EGO/Perk tree altogether then since everybody is going to simply switch out tank perks to being glass cannons.
This game would have been so much better without PvP. PvE requires NO balance changes because the CPU doesn't complain about humans beating on it.
Overstated a bit, but all of the wacky exploits and invulnerability glitches are the direct result of a broken EGO/Perk system. It's way too complex, and provides for a lot of unintended consequences, many of them making for a lot of frustrating game play.
A question I have is this: does anyone at Trion Worlds play Defiance, except for demos? If there were even a few experienced, skilled players with the company, I believe that those players would quickly see what all of the fuss is about. I cannot accept that there are any experienced players at Trion playing Defiance on any regular basis. Just look at the out-of-touch fixes, nerfs, and weird content that the developers put into this game. They cannot be playing it, or they would know better.
I guess they are all on their successful game, Rift. Can't blame them, really.
I played the beta on broken box, er, I mean Xbox 360, and then bought the game because it had potential, and it was fun. I couldn't care less about the tie-in to the TV show. Said TV show not being great...
More than likely, Trion is now attempting to operate with a skeleton crew. The people are multi-tasking like crazy and can't get into the game because they are hard pressed for time and overworked. Been there and done that. Really don't like it. Companies pushing folks up to and then beyond their limits is sad.
Even the people on this forum that I usually disagree with are here because they have a passion for this game. They all care enough to register and take the time to comment, even if it's a wall of crazy text that is virtually impossible to read. It's a sad day when the game community shows more concern, knowledge, and passion for a game than the company that produced that game.
Just kill Defiance, and be done. Because watching it die a slow and painful death is rather sad at this point.
/popcorn
I'm just going to sit here and wait until someone realizes there will have to be changes to damage multipliers as well, once TTK takes a nose dive in PvP.
We either adapt or move on. I'm sticking around and adapting to the gameplay. Remember, this isn't the last patch they are going to do. Things can change again. Lets try to roll with the punches and make the best of it
damage reduction? why. Its hard enough as it is.
dying once in a while is cool but if you shoot at something too long its like wtf when u gonna die then on top of that since takes longer to kill more likely im goin down faster which means ill need to be saved every 5 min so how is that fun??
I'd just already assumed this was to be an eventuality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaearth