Dev Update: Changing damage reduction - update!

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Originally Posted by Dmack

....if you shoot at something too long its like wtf when u gonna die...

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Try moving, rolling, using cover, using grenades, using your ego power etc. and aiming for the sweet spot.

You might be new to the game if you're forum join date is indicative of your time in the game. Give it time and explore all the game combat mechanics if that's the case. Combat will become far more manageable (and hopefully fun) for you once you've grown comfortable with a more in depth combat strategy against enemies.

The damage reduction rework is a poorly thought out psuedo solution by the development team but it's hardly game breaking.

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Originally Posted by Nefarious

However Trion decides to go about doing it, it will be good to see Ark Hunters being more human and less Terminator like.

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Except for the jumping off of buildings and taking no damage part of course.

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Originally Posted by Deunan

Try moving, rolling, using cover, using grenades, using your ego power etc. and aiming for the sweet spot.

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".. left of the spine, fourth lumbar down; the abdominal aorta; it’s a metallic taste, human blood."

Anyway, I'll just wait and see how this all plays out. If it doesn't break and I still manage to run around solo killing stuff, it's all good..

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Originally Posted by Notturno

...only considering this from a PvP perspective. PvE is so incredibly easy I find perks and weapons generally irrelevant...

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I get where you are coming from. I really do. But when the majority of the community is after the cooperative PVE environment and you intentionally slight them are you really doing your desire, "PVP balance should be properly addressed.", any service? I mean aren't you just going to increase the "we don't give a rat's *** about PVP and their whining yet Trion continuously adjusts to suit them and damage our game!"?

I think it is very unfortunate that Trion chose to make it a PVP vs PVE by not separating the mechanics.

But since you chose to go there,
Virtually no one gives a rat's *** about PVP.
A tiny, tiny sub-sect of the game is PVP.
Yet their whining repeatedly affects the majority's game as Trion adjusts to the incessant whine.
It damages the real game and their whine shall not cease.
Just change to a different, "that player killed me with this combo! NERF IT! NAOHW!".
If you really want to fix the problem, do so!, but kindly leave the actual game and its players the hell out of your fix. Thanks,

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Originally Posted by TigrisMorte

I get where you are coming from. I really do. But when the majority of the community is after the cooperative PVE environment and you intentionally slight them are you really doing your desire, "PVP balance should be properly addressed.", any service? I mean aren't you just going to increase the "we don't give a rat's *** about PVP and their whining yet Trion continuously adjusts to suit them and damage our game!"?

I think it is very unfortunate that Trion chose to make it a PVP vs PVE by not separating the mechanics.

But since you chose to go there,
Virtually no one gives a rat's *** about PVP.
A tiny, tiny sub-sect of the game is PVP.
Yet their whining repeatedly affects the majority's game as Trion adjusts to the incessant whine.
It damages the real game and their whine shall not cease.
Just change to a different, "that player killed me with this combo! NERF IT! NAOHW!".
If you really want to fix the problem, do so!, but kindly leave the actual game and its players the hell out of your fix. Thanks,

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I just want to expand slightly in a different direction some of this.

I think it is extremely important to consider that this pvp vs pve debate is the product of the poor management and design of Defiance's game play.

If we are being reduced to saying one is causing issues with the other, it is because the game wasnt designed properly to make that a non issue. Such is a short comming of Trion's that players would better focus on than to allow Trion to snicker while they misdirect players otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

I just want to expand slightly in a different direction some of this.

I think it is extremely important to consider that this pvp vs pve debate is the product of the poor management and design of Defiance's game play.

If we are being reduced to saying one is causing issues with the other, it is because the game wasnt designed properly to make that a non issue. Such is a short comming of Trion's that players would better focus on than to allow Trion to snicker while they misdirect players otherwise.

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Agreed. For PvE and PvP to be balanced together they need to be designed from the very start together. This was obviously not the case with Defiance. With only 3 instanced maps (only 2 at launch, and a 4th buggy mess added recently), the PvP team was/is very small indeed.

Shadow War was probably the best competitive mode in Defiance and it lacked any type of clan or multiple group matchmaking (not to mention that it didn't even require making any maps!). Certianly PvP was not the primary focus of Defiance, and if it was, then that team lacked any real experience.

We only need to review the issues with Freight Yard and more recently with Military Academy to validate such criticism. For Trion to balance the game for PvP only highlights how mismanaged their efforts have been up to this point. It's not like PvP is balanced in the slightest at this point anyway (the only balance that exists is from players adapting to a broken system).

EDIT: And let's not forget that Trion wants to break the system further by changing how grenades work, along with ruining additional synergies and bonuses that actually work.

U know y we can't get a good game of PvP going, it's because of the God mode people that can't die b it a cheat code or what ever. Who wants to play when u die time and time again. I'm not taking anything away from the good players and trust me there r some really good ones, it's the players w/t unlimited cloak, or blur. I came up on someone and from 10 feet away I shot them w/t my surge charger charged and then shot the other 16 rounds point blank and all his shield did was move down 20% and right back up w/t no delay. This kind of makes me think that something isn't right, since most times it would b a 1 shot kill. He didn't even know I was there, so I thought that I'll use my blade and that's when he finally seen me and made short work of me, this is what needs to b fixed.If it is maybe we wouldn't have to wait for poeple to play a good fun PvP. I also wonder y people even play like this got to get boring w/t out a chance of death.No wonder no one wants to play PvP any more. Perhaps there should b a cap on PvP and not the whole game, something where it is skill and not a cheat.I'm not crying since I do get my share of kills, but maybe other people would like to win a little.

Can someone explain why there even is a PvP vs PvE argument in the first place? Based on the reasons that Trick said they were making this change, PvE is probably the greater contributing factor to the change (i.e. crouched backing up into fights to increase damage reduction to the invulnerability level). The only way you could apply a change like this to the issues plaguing PvP is if you entirely misunderstood the issues plaguing PvP.

The only people I've ever fought who have gotten close to the levels of damage reduction that border on invulnerability, that PvPers have been complaining about, are ones who have glitched or exploited guns that somehow give them huge damage reduction after a shield break for a long period of time. That is a kind of glitch that will not be resolved with the change they are implementing in the next patch. Also, Trion has announced that exploiting that glitch is legitimate. So, giving Trion the benefit of the doubt, that would mean the damage reduction issues in PvP are not the main focus of this "fix".

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Originally Posted by Vikingkid3

Can someone explain why there even is a PvP vs PvE argument in the first place? Based on the reasons that Trick said they were making this change, PvE is probably the greater contributing factor to the change (i.e. crouched backing up into fights to increase damage reduction to the invulnerability level). The only way you could apply a change like this to the issues plaguing PvP is if you entirely misunderstood the issues plaguing PvP.

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Pay attention to what they posted.

"We also want to extend out thanks to folks in the community who worked with us to point out these exploits and were integral in our efforts of fixing this problem. Thank you for your time and your patience."

Where did any players make any reports about things like this in pve? you won't find any. Where were the complaints centered? pvp. When did this fix get mentioned? literally right after they made a stupid statement on the live stream and then got called out for it and made themselves look bad on both the forum and the live stream.

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The only people I've ever fought who have gotten close to the levels of damage reduction that border on invulnerability, that PvPers have been complaining about, are ones who have glitched or exploited guns that somehow give them huge damage reduction after a shield break for a long period of time. That is a kind of glitch that will not be resolved with the change they are implementing in the next patch. Also, Trion has announced that exploiting that glitch is legitimate. So, giving Trion the benefit of the doubt, that would mean the damage reduction issues in PvP are not the main focus of this "fix".

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Glitched guns have nothing to do with this, so why are you bringing it up? Trion says a lot of things, flip flops on their statements at the drop of a hat, makes terrible design choices and their track record with balancing has been terrible. Giving them the benefit of the doubt is extremely naive. This announcement was literally on the eve of the live stream discussion of the perm-invulnerability in pvp, to think this doesn't have anything to do with pvp with how they've continued to handle things in this game is astonishing.

So I've been gone for awhile hoping they would pull their heads out of their *****es and fix the game. Looks like they are still up to their same old bs fix whats not broken ignore what they have no idea how to fix.

I see not much has changed in the Defiance front here. Oh well much better games have come out and have been purchased.

Lets hope they hire someone who actualy knows what they are doing. The ones in charge now I wouldnt trust with a lemonade stand let alone a video game company.

Is it the lack of content, lack of the dangling carrot or lack of community (broken chat) nope its the combo of perks making some people invulnerable...way to go dev team way to waste time on something trivial instead of focusing or the core issues of your broken game.

See you in another few months to see if you have pulled your head out of your *****es... but then again.....probably not. Better things to spend my time and money on then your waste of talent company.

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Originally Posted by Arsenic_Touch

Pay attention to what they posted.

"We also want to extend out thanks to folks in the community who worked with us to point out these exploits and were integral in our efforts of fixing this problem. Thank you for your time and your patience."

Where did any players make any reports about things like this in pve? you won't find any. Where were the complaints centered? pvp. When did this fix get mentioned? literally right after they made a stupid statement on the live stream and then got called out for it and made themselves look bad on both the forum and the live stream.




Glitched guns have nothing to do with this, so why are you bringing it up? Trion says a lot of things, flip flops on their statements at the drop of a hat, makes terrible design choices and their track record with balancing has been terrible. Giving them the benefit of the doubt is extremely naive. This announcement was literally on the eve of the live stream discussion of the perm-invulnerability in pvp, to think this doesn't have anything to do with pvp with how they've continued to handle things in this game is astonishing.

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I would be surprised if there was a complaint or report about the invulnerability in PvE, I have never checked. I just assumed as much if they noticed that it was possible and that people were doing it (probably youtube videos, but searching for those seems to be an extra effort on their part). And I wouldn't say, in that regard alone, they had a bad idea. It was just an over correction. There shouldn't be any circumstance where a player is invulnerable unless it is specifically implemented as a game mechanic. In a game like this, where level progression doesn't necessarily make the gameplay any easier, allowing people to manipulate gameplay mechanics to become invulnerable doesn't add to the experience. Nor does it promote a variety of play styles and loadouts which this game has great potential for.

As far as giving them the benefit of the doubt, I should have included some sort of /sarcasm note. I do not believe they understand the issues in PvP, so this "fix" did intend to resolve the PvP issues. However, if you do understand the PvP problems, unless they are very lucky and unintentionally fix them, this "fix" will not resolve the PvP issues. I brought up glitched guns, because from all the testing I've seen people do, and from my own observations and testing, there is a certain bonus on VOT Pulsars, that when combined with either perks or shields or something else, on shield break the damage reduction skyrockets beyond normally attainable levels and lasts for 3x as long as it should (Thick Skin lasts 3 seconds, they have the same Thick Skin+ damage reduction for 9 seconds). I say VOT Pulsars because every single person I've seen with the bug uses a VOT Pulsar (I would guess with the same bonus), and their perk/shield loadouts vary.

This thread discusses that connection in length:
http://forums.defiance.com/showthrea...istance-Really

My whole point was that, based on Trion's viewpoints, this fix is wholly intended to fix all damage reduction problems in both PvE and PvP, neither is more favored. The reality may be very different. But, blaming one group's complaints over another's is pointless and serves no purpose. Either way, the change in itself is a horrible idea.

If the game never had PvP in it, why would anybody care about players finding ways to use the tools on hand to make themselves invulnerable to attack for a short period of time? Do the Scrappers, Volge, Hellbugs, etc.. have their own forum and post complaints that they can't kill the humans playing the game?

This is all coming down because of complaints from the PvP side. I know Trion makes numerous fumbles, but they would never be crazy enough to come out and say "This is because of PvP"

either way, this game had it's day in the sun and now that has past. I kick myself for getting the season pass. I feel like I'm tied to this game now until I play all of the DLC.

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Originally Posted by Arsenic_Touch

Once again Trion has screwed something up in pve because of pvp.

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Originally Posted by Ironhide

The fact that the whiners from pvp get heard while everyone else who has valid points get ignored is just plain stupid.

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Originally Posted by Ironhide

I have seen too many things ruined for PVE because of PVP. [...] I am so sick and tired of perfectly good game mechanics getting nerfed because 1.) PVP whiners

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Originally Posted by Chump Norris

Trion just remove PvP from the game and undo all past nerfs made to weapons.

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Originally Posted by Arsenic_Touch

Are you actually going to sit here and try to claim that this isn't because of pvp? HAHAHA.

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Originally Posted by TigrisMorte

Virtually no one gives a rat's *** about PVP.
A tiny, tiny sub-sect of the game is PVP.
Yet their whining repeatedly affects the majority's game as Trion adjusts to the incessant whine.
It damages the real game and their whine shall not cease.

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Originally Posted by Arsenic_Touch

Where did any players make any reports about things like this in pve? you won't find any. Where were the complaints centered? pvp. When did this fix get mentioned? literally right after they made a stupid statement on the live stream and then got called out for it and made themselves look bad on both the forum and the live stream.

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I think some people here really need to take a deep breath and calm down a little bit.



First, and I'll write it in BBB (Big Black Bold) letters to be sure :

PVP players never asked DR sources to be non-cumulative

We have reported that, when a particular weapon with a particular bonus and a particular perks were used together, players could become completely invulnerable. One weapon. One bonus. One Perk. Nothing to do with any kind of cumulative bonus.



Second : people complain that PvE is ruined because of PvP. More precisely because PvE and PvP are not separated modes with specific rules to PvE and other for PvP. In other words, if something affects PvP, it also affects PvE. But, since both modes are following the same rules, it is also true that something affecting PvE will also affect PvP. Thus, PvE is ruined because of PvP and PvP is ruined because of PvE. Ergo PvE is ruined by PvE and PvP is ruined by PvP.

Point is : you think only PvE players are pissed off by that change ? Well, Breaking News, PvP players are too. PvE players are not the only one who play highly defensive builds. In PvP, this is almost required if you want to survive long enough to have a positive K/D ratio.



Third, PvP has ruined nothing. Trion did. I'm ready to bet a thousand bucks that they have laughed hard when they have read the comments of that thread... Ever heard of the saying : 'Divide and rule' or 'Divide and conquer' ? Well that's it. As long as the PvE majority brags and whines agains the PvP minority, Trion is safe and nobody even think of criticizing what will stay in Defiance's annals as one of the worst handled problem in the game. Ever.



Now, all you PvE guys can keep on bragging and whining on PvPers, that we are the cause of all the disasters that happened in the game, that we are the only ones to be heard and that the only thing we do well is whining. Yes you can.

Or you can open your eyes, stop being dumb and throw all your hate at the true responsible's face.

It's your choice.

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Originally Posted by Dracian

I think some people here really need to take a deep breath and calm down a little bit.



First, and I'll write it in BBB (Big Black Bold) letters to be sure :

PVP players never asked DR sources to be non-cumulative

We have reported that, when a particular weapon with a particular bonus and a particular perks were used together, players could become completely invulnerable. One weapon. One bonus. One Perk. Nothing to do with any kind of cumulative bonus.



Second : people complain that PvE is ruined because of PvP. More precisely because PvE and PvP are not separated modes with specific rules to PvE and other for PvP. In other words, if something affects PvP, it also affects PvE. But, since both modes are following the same rules, it is also true that something affecting PvE will also affect PvP. Thus, PvE is ruined because of PvP and PvP is ruined because of PvE. Ergo PvE is ruined by PvE and PvP is ruined by PvP.

Point is : you think only PvE players are pissed off by that change ? Well, Breaking News, PvP players are too. PvE players are not the only one who play highly defensive builds. In PvP, this is almost required if you want to survive long enough to have a positive K/D ratio.



Third, PvP has ruined nothing. Trion did. I'm ready to bet a thousand bucks that they have laughed hard when they have read the comments of that thread... Ever heard of the saying : 'Divide and rule' or 'Divide and conquer' ? Well that's it. As long as the PvE majority brags and whines agains the PvP minority, Trion is safe and nobody even think of criticizing what will stay in Defiance's annals as one of the worst handled problem in the game. Ever.



Now, all you PvE guys can keep on bragging and whining on PvPers, that we are the cause of all the disasters that happened in the game, that we are the only ones to be heard and that the only thing we do well is whining. Yes you can.

Or you can open your eyes, stop being dumb and throw all your hate at the true responsible's face.

It's your choice.

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+10000000000² to this!

Thanks for pointing that out, Dracian. PvEers are quick to blame PvPers but all we ever asked for was that the one particular combo with the glitched shield be fixed. We never asked for anything else; just a bug fix.

And the precise example Trick gave about abuse of said exploit was using the exploit during the Motherlode boss. Before people QQ about us PvPers I urge you to actually go to the PvP forum and read the stuff we post. We very rarely complain about anything and when we do it's usually a pretty big deal (i.e. complete and total invulnerability derived from a bugged shield/weapon/perk combo).

All in all I'd say we PvPers have very little to complain about other than a general lack of more interesting PvP stuff. I'm happy enough with the balance of things as it sits right now.

It's very disconcerting to read so much negativity about the PvP crowd from the PvEers when they know virtually nothing about what we want, like, talk about, et cetera. I suggest people inform themselves before crying about PvPers. Go to the PvP forum and read some of our threads.

I really don't see the big deal on the DR being changed, because its just changing them from stacking all at once and go with the highest (what is does already pretty much). Take Thick Skin for example: "Takes half damage when shield breaks" for 3 sec (lets assume half damage is 50%) but on a 15 sec cooldown. Detachment kicks in for a kill that's made. Cellular Armor active all times.

Kill a enemy/shields up: Detachment overrides Cellular Armor (TS only work if shields break)
Not killing/shields up: Cellular Armor is working (Detach only work if you kill something)
Shields down/kill a enemy: Thick Skin kicks in for 3 sec (then goes on a 15 sec CD)
Shields down/kill a enemy/TS on cooldown: Detachment kicks in

With all that said I don't really see the problem because TS cooldown anyway and is situational only if your shields break, again assuming TS means 50% + CA which is active all times, just means TS and CA will not stack and just take the 50% until the 3 sec then CA comes back in. Kill a enemy with shields down we'd be arguing over 3 sec and a few percent, and further more if you're killing, stacked DR is not missed.

Can someone correct me plz

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Originally Posted by DhogonX

I really don't see the big deal on the DR being changed, because its just changing them from stacking all at once and go with the highest (what is does already pretty much). Take Thick Skin for example: "Takes half damage when shield breaks" for 3 sec (lets assume half damage is 50%) but on a 15 sec cooldown. Detachment kicks in for a kill that's made. Cellular Armor active all times.

Kill a enemy/shields up: Detachment overrides Cellular Armor (TS only work if shields break)
Not killing/shields up: Cellular Armor is working (Detach only work if you kill something)
Shields down/kill a enemy: Thick Skin kicks in for 3 sec (then goes on a 15 sec CD)
Shields down/kill a enemy/TS on cooldown: Detachment kicks in

With all that said I don't really see the problem because TS cooldown anyway and is situational only if your shields break, again assuming TS means 50% + CA which is active all times, just means TS and CA will not stack and just take the 50% until the 3 sec then CA comes back in. Kill a enemy with shields down we'd be arguing over 3 sec and a few percent, and further more if you're killing, stacked DR is not missed.

Can someone correct me plz

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In PvP, the current setup with additive damage reduction, tends to favor more skilled players. If you are protecting a point, alone, and it is assaulted by multiple people, the more people you kill and the longer you stay alive the greater your chances of survival. If you are running Cellular Armor, Detachment, Kill or Be Killed, Rear Guard and Thick Skin, your damage reduction adds up to a significant amount. If you are a skilled player that can be just what you need to survive the onslaught and protect the point (if you are not skilled you will likely die much quicker).

In PvE, I'm guessing (as I've never ran with a defensive perk in my PvE builds) that those who rely on defense in order to survive confrontations with adds will no longer have their defenses, to the point that they need, and are more likely to die.

Either way, on it's face, I also do not think the change is that bad. In PvP, all the seasoned players use, basically, the same perk loadout, this might switch things up and allow for more unique builds. It will take time to get used to however, and it may raise the skill ceiling a little bit. As for PvE it'll just make it a little harder for those that rely on defensive perks.

However, I believe the controversy comes because PvPers complained about a problem with Glitches caused by a weapon and possibly a shield/perk. Never has anyone in the PvP community complained about damage reduction when it is functioning, on our end there was nothing wrong with it (the glitched players were the only ones capable of receiving anything near invulnerability). There were simply a few bugs that gave people unfair advantages when exploited. The PvE community then cries out that this change is entirely a result of the PvP community's gripes and will hurt PvE. According to what Trick said, neither is the sole cause. Yet this change doesn't address one group's issues (PvP) and over corrects the other group's issues (PvE).

From a PvPers perspective this change is a horrible idea because the players that have been causing all the problems will be put into a better position than they are now. They still have a glitched gun, couple that gun with thick skin and cellular armor and they have been able to reach levels of damage reduction, 95%+, that are unattainable through legitimate means (invulnerability would come if they were being shot in the back and have rear guard). This change will simply mean that they have 89%+ damage reduction when their glitch activates and cannot become invulnerable. Meanwhile, everyone else cannot achieve greater than 50%, and that only lasts 3 seconds. Thus this change benefits the players that exploit bugs and hurts legitimate players.

Surprise surprise, looks like Trion is back peddling.

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Update about this change’s timing: In the interest of improving the quality of the damage reduction update, we are going to need to delay it until our next code patch. Without a code update, the damage numbers displayed when fighting another player would be inaccurate to the damage done. This would cause players to see damage done to opponents then see it quickly restore as the damage difference was transmitted from the server. By waiting until we can update the reported damage functionality, we are preventing confusion once the damage reduction update goes live. Thanks – and we will let you know when that patch is coming!

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Originally Posted by Arsenic_Touch

Surprise surprise, looks like Trion is back peddling.

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Just another week of the soap opera. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Vikingkid3

This change will simply mean that they have 89%+ damage reduction when their glitch activates and cannot become invulnerable. Meanwhile, everyone else cannot achieve greater than 50%, and that only lasts 3 seconds. Thus this change benefits the players that exploit bugs and hurts legitimate players.

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Ok I understand now, thanks for clearing that up for me. I never knew they worked simultaneous, because most games stats are non-cumulative.

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Originally Posted by Arsenic_Touch

Surprise surprise, looks like Trion is back peddling.

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Update about this change’s timing: In the interest of improving the quality of the damage reduction update, we are going to need to delay it until our next code patch. Without a code update, the damage numbers displayed when fighting another player would be inaccurate to the damage done. This would cause players to see damage done to opponents then see it quickly restore as the damage difference was transmitted from the server. By waiting until we can update the reported damage functionality, we are preventing confusion once the damage reduction update goes live. Thanks – and we will let you know when that patch is coming!

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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...CARE%20GUY.png

Why am I not even surprised ?

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Originally Posted by Arsenic_Touch

Surprise surprise, looks like Trion is back peddling.

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Ok, for crying out loud, first you complain that they are nerfing this stuff, now you complain that they aren't. You should be happy that they are not implementing it the way they had it and are instead taking another look at it. They saw what we were saying and chose to give it another go.

I am pretty sure that no matter what Trion does, you will complain about it. It makes it hard to take you seriously.

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Originally Posted by Valdrane78

Ok, for crying out loud, first you complain that they are nerfing this stuff, now you complain that they aren't. You should be happy that they are not implementing it the way they had it and are instead taking another look at it. They saw what we were saying and chose to give it another go.

I am pretty sure that no matter what Trion does, you will complain about it. It makes it hard to take you seriously.

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Oh no, what ever shall I do? Valdrane78 won't take me seriously. I am simply abashed.. please oh great one, what shall I do to gain your favour? on second thought, bugger off.

Moving on.. I was actually pointing out that they're back peddling, like they did the first time with this nerf after what they said on the live stream. You know how they magically found this issue after people complained about perma invulnerability in pvp and they replied with a slap to the face to the entire pvp community(it's a clever use of mechanics and they condone it), and then a little while later after they were called out for it, their answer was to jek up the perks that are already lack luster as it is and now they're going to wait on implementing it and give a half arsed excuse for it right after the forums erupted in opposition, pointing out how stupid the idea was? I complain when there's merit and I point out their inconsistencies and back peddling when it happens because the more light brought to these issues, the better chance people will stop letting them get away with this shtako.

I was however not complaining about them not nerfing it, I was making an observation and also informing the rest of the forum about what's going down. Now you can kindly run along.

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Originally Posted by Valdrane78

I am pretty sure that no matter what Trion does, you will complain about it.

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It would be more accurate to say that Trion has a knack/skill/consistent pattern of compounding issues and thus draws criticism, rightfully, on a very frequent basis.

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Originally Posted by Valdrane78

Ok, for crying out loud, first you complain that they are nerfing this stuff, now you complain that they aren't. You should be happy that they are not implementing it the way they had it and are instead taking another look at it. They saw what we were saying and chose to give it another go.

I am pretty sure that no matter what Trion does, you will complain about it. It makes it hard to take you seriously.

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Whoa, someone read my mind, and across the interwebz no less!
Defiance is just a game, Trion is just a company. If either one causes you to lose sleep... then for the love of everything holy, STOP PLAYING, STOP POSTING NEGATIVITY, GO OUTSIDE!

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Originally Posted by Valdrane78

Ok, for crying out loud, first you complain that they are nerfing this stuff, now you complain that they aren't. You should be happy that they are not implementing it the way they had it and are instead taking another look at it. They saw what we were saying and chose to give it another go.

I am pretty sure that no matter what Trion does, you will complain about it. It makes it hard to take you seriously.

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lol, and you are who?


Arsenic is a LONG time member, tester and go to guy for all things defiance.

Please don't even talk to him NooB

Hey guys:

Just to clarify with the update - the damage changes are still happening, we just need to patch in a different way and that's going to take more time.

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Originally Posted by Crystal Kitty

lol, and you are who?


Arsenic is a LONG time member, tester and go to guy for all things defiance.

Please don't even talk to him NooB

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nobody here on the forums is a "somebody". You're all just as worthless as everyone else is. So it doesn't matter who he is, just like it doesn't matter who you are or who the complainer is.

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Originally Posted by four

nobody here on the forums is a "somebody". You're all just as worthless as everyone else is. So it doesn't matter who he is, just like it doesn't matter who you are or who the complainer is.

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I 'believe' he was speaking to credibility having been established.

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Originally Posted by dahanese

Hey guys:

Just to clarify with the update - the damage changes are still happening, we just need to patch in a different way and that's going to take more time.

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Can we get any word on whether or not this change will affect and fix the weapon bug that has been causing the PvP damage reduction issues, or if there is any sort of investigation going on to find and fix that bug? Thank you.

Ppl got to realize that those Spikes which can Regenerate life are going to be added.

So it makes sense to reduced DMG resistance perks to opt for a tool used for more team work.

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Originally Posted by Vikingkid3

Can we get any word on whether or not this change will affect and fix the weapon bug that has been causing the PvP damage reduction issues, or if there is any sort of investigation going on to find and fix that bug? Thank you.

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Unless they had a revelation over the weekend, last Friday's Live-Stream seemed to indicate they weren't going to address bugs and exploits. They were going to step on stacking defensive perks instead.

Bugs require fixing code, and being ABLE to fix code. Nerfing only requires changing values in a column of multiplier indexes.

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Originally Posted by Nefarious

Ppl got to realize that those Spikes which can Regenerate life are going to be added.

So it makes sense to reduced DMG resistance perks to opt for a tool used for more team work.

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While I agree, that's not going to happen till the next DLC, and we're not even certain as to when 'that' is going to come out. So, it would make more sense to reduce the DMG resistance perks, closer to the launch of the next DLC.

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Originally Posted by Cicuta Lupus

While I agree, that's not going to happen till the next DLC, and we're not even certain as to when 'that' is going to come out. So, it would make more sense to reduce the DMG resistance perks, closer to the launch of the next DLC.

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Actually it makes sense to do it way before the Dlc comes out, because then they have time to see if there are bugs in the recoded perks and can just slip the fix into the Dlc patch when it's released.

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Originally Posted by Nefarious

Ppl got to realize that those Spikes which can Regenerate life are going to be added.

So it makes sense to reduced DMG resistance perks to opt for a tool used for more team work.

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And for the sake of argument, what about all the times/places/instances where the perks would work, but there aren't any spikes to be had?

* I can theoretically run all over the map and my perks are in effect.

* How far can I run from a spike before the effect isn't felt?

* What happens when I get ambushed, and killed before I can deploy a spike?

* How long does the spike last?

* What do I have to do to get another?

* How long does it take me to get another? Do I have to start every day running missions to acquire spikes before I can expect to play the *rest* of the game? It's not like I want to have to run a new obstacle course every time I log in just so I'm somewhat equipped to take on part of the day, and maybe have to reacquire a new supply half way thru the day. I mean, I already have my perks, why do I want to give them up?

* Since I can't 'Take it with me', what happens when the AO moves but the spike doesn't?

That's just a short list comparable to un-equipping your perks for the duration. You want to do that? When the other guy has a spike to deploy, and you don't?

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Originally Posted by crasher

Unless they had a revelation over the weekend, last Friday's Live-Stream seemed to indicate they weren't going to address bugs and exploits. They were going to step on stacking defensive perks instead.

Bugs require fixing code, and being ABLE to fix code. Nerfing only requires changing values in a column of multiplier indexes.

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We'll always get the bugs when we are able. In regard to the damage reduction changes, we haven't identified any actual bugs. The videos we've been sent (after analyzing them with devs) don't show bugs we can fix but have highlighted issues with the game that can be remedied with the damage reduction change that will make things better for you guys in that regard (and stop the stuff we're seeing in those videos).

just so im clear on this they are just changein it to be kinda like ac in dnd. you cant stack from similar things. in this game its perks, shields, and weapon bonus but you cant stack them. its just like dnd you cant wear a ring of protection +1 and a +2 and expect a +3 only the +2 counts same with tryin to use two shields only get the strongest counted. dosent seem that hard to comprehend or too bad of a thing especially if its the easiest way to fix a problem

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Originally Posted by dahanese

We'll always get the bugs when we are able. In regard to the damage reduction changes, we haven't identified any actual bugs. The videos we've been sent (after analyzing them with devs) don't show bugs we can fix but have highlighted issues with the game that can be remedied with the damage reduction change that will make things better for you guys in that regard (and stop the stuff we're seeing in those videos).

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The bugs are in the shields and weapons that contribute to the afore mentioned exploits that are causing the problem in PVP with invulnerable players being unkillable.

Being able to fix bugs requires identifying the bugs and where they nest. There are bugs in Windows 7 code that have been in the code since Windows 3.1.

Video evidence in a bank or 7/11 is easy, you turn on the camera and let it run forever.
Video evidence in a game is tougher. You turn it on the recorder and spend the rest of your time running around either playing or trying to capture a shot of somebody who may or may not be identifiable in the vid, and only of your crosshairs manage to trigger a name, and only if the guy recording happens to be the one involved in being right place/time.

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Originally Posted by crasher

And for the sake of argument, what about all the times/places/instances where the perks would work, but there aren't any spikes to be had?

I can theoretically run all over the map and my perks are in effect.

*How far can I run from a spike before the effect isn't felt?

*How long does the spike last?

*What do I have to do to get another?

*How long does it take me to get another? Do I have to start every day running missions to acquire spikes before I can expect to play the *rest* of the game? It's not like I want to have to run a new obstacle course every time I log in just so I'm somewhat equipped to take on part of the day, and maybe have to reacquire a new supply half way thru the day. I mean, I already have my perks, why do I want to give them up?

*Since I can't 'Take it with me', what happens when the AO moves but the spike doesn't?

That's just a short list comparable to un-equipping your perks for the duration. You want to do that? When the other guy has a spike to deploy, and you don't?

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I rarely use more than 2 defensive perks at a time so I am not bothered much about the change. I also did NOT say the change was good. Read the quote you responded to. It says releasing the change in advance of the Dlc is a good thing because it gives us time to find bugs and then gives trion a chance to slip the fix into the Dlc patch. Making patches and detting certification for every patch costs money. slipping a fix into an upcoming patch is cheaper and takes less time for certification.

Therefore Trion doesn't have to spend as much money and we have time to test the change and report any bugs and glitches that it has caused.

As for dieing alot because you don't have almost infinite damage reduction, get friends. This is supposed to be a group game. They are finally trying to make it one, like they should have from the start. You can cope while pointing out flaws in a constructive and non-accussatory way, or you can join all the whiney trolls who keep getting banned and having to make constant new accounts to troll us with. I always felt you were in that first catagory with Arsenic, myself and several others, but the decent people have been turning into hateful trolls and joining the darkside of the net lately, so only time will tell, I suppose. Besides you will still have perks and damage reduction. They are just making the change a little more challanging. Are you really saying you CAN'T do a Volge emergency or cruise in San Fran without any damage reduction perks, using just your shield for the damage protection? Most of us can, and we are NOT all great players like some of you. We just know when to evade or run, when needed.

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Originally Posted by Atticus Batman

I rarely use more than 2 defensive perks at a time so I am not bothered much about the change. I also did NOT say the change was good. Read the quote you responded to. It says releasing the change in advance of the Dlc is a good thing because it gives us time to find bugs and then gives trion a chance to slip the fix into the Dlc patch. Making patches and detting certification for every patch costs money. slipping a fix into an upcoming patch is cheaper and takes less time for certification.

Therefore Trion doesn't have to spend as much money and we have time to test the change and report any bugs and glitches that it has caused.

As for dieing alot because you don't have almost infinite damage reduction, get friends. This is supposed to be a group game. They are finally trying to make it one, like they should have from the start. You can cope while pointing out flaws in a constructive and non-accussatory way, or you can join all the whiney trolls who keep getting banned and having to make constant new accounts to troll us with. I always felt you were in that first catagory with Arsenic, myself and several others, but the decent people have been turning into hateful trolls and joining the darkside of the net lately, so only time will tell, I suppose. Besides you will still have perks and damage reduction. They are just making the change a little more challanging. Are you really saying you CAN'T do a Volge emergency or cruise in San Fran without any damage reduction perks, using just your shield for the damage protection? Most of us can, and we are NOT all great players like some of you. We just know when to evade or run, when needed.

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With the utmost respect I have for you as a player of the game who has demonstrated wisdom on countless occasions - The red portion highlighted is akin to saying:

"I rarely take a drink so I am not bothered much about the prohibition. What could go wrong?"

Just sayin'... things aren't fair just because we aren't affected. They have to be fair to ppl who aren't us, too.


"Making patches and detting certification for every patch costs money. slipping a fix into an upcoming patch is cheaper and takes less time for certification.

Therefore Trion doesn't have to spend as much money and we have time to test the change and report any bugs and glitches that it has caused."
* It's always cheaper/easier to fix something if you dont have to do it right.....



And I 100% agree that small bites make it easier to distinguish just where the rancid peanut butter starts and the good stuff ends.

'Supposed to be a group game' got killed off by the bad social interaction-ability of the U.I. so by default it IS a solo game for the most part for many people. And I can take perks into a solo mission (Most of the game play involving storyline IS solo play) where spikes may not be useful. How many times can I replay Jackleg Joe or Nim on my equipped perk, Vs how many times can I die and replay the mission on the single spike I have?

You have my respects.