How did the humans lose the war against the Votan?

I am just curous if anyone knows how humans could lose the war, or come close until the Defiance event. Humans had Biomen and the Hulkers, they had Syphon weapons how could they have come close to losing?

It was a glitch xD

Where does it say we lost? Looked more to me like we fought to a standstill and a small group from both sides ended it. Of course, since we fought on our turf and it was razed, I guess you could call that a loss.

The writers said so.

The dreaded out of memory error.

Just because the other side has bigger toys doesn't necessarily mean that side will win. There are many strategies to fighting an army like that. Hit and run tactics being one of them. Plus, I am sure they would be pissed at the alien invaders for screwing up Earth which makes people fight very hard and well.

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Originally Posted by Xtorma

The writers said so.

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If they did, I missed it, but the V don't really seem to be in charge of the anthill.

OTOH, the V had/have interstellar travel in a way we only have movies and TV shows about, so how could they not exterminate us?
Yeah, I understand everyone was trying to be all friendly, but when the shtako hit the air circulation device the V had the upper hand.

I still think that all that debris impacting Terra would be enough to irradiate everything, dust-cloud the atmosphere, and pretty well moot the global warming/cooling point.

The impression I got from the lore was that the whole thing had 'settled' into a bloody stalemate until someone/something set off the Arkfall and in so doing kicked over the proverbial chessboard.

Smallpox blankets

If I'm not mistaken, nobody won... The Humans and Votans at the Battle of Defiance just stopped fighting due to the risk of innocent lives. That's what the whole Armistice thing was, no?

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Originally Posted by Punisher Illinois Blue

I am just curous if anyone knows how humans could lose the war, or come close until the Defiance event. Humans had Biomen and the Hulkers, they had Syphon weapons how could they have come close to losing?

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Trion nerf their weapons,that's the only thing I can think of

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Originally Posted by Dandrielas

Just because the other side has bigger toys doesn't necessarily mean that side will win. There are many strategies to fighting an army like that. Hit and run tactics being one of them. Plus, I am sure they would be pissed at the alien invaders for screwing up Earth which makes people fight very hard and well.

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It not hit and run tactics..... it's called guerrilla warfare 1st battalion 3rd marines kanoehe bay Hawaii ooh rah

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Originally Posted by jarmin kell

It not hit and run tactics..... it's called guerrilla warfare 1st battalion 3rd marines kanoehe bay Hawaii ooh rah

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http://looter.livelyblog.com/files/2012/07/Gwarfare.jpg

lol oo oo oo rah rah rah

All of those blue, purple, and orange Volge rifles never dropped for the humans... that's how. ;)

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Originally Posted by Punisher Illinois Blue

I am just curous if anyone knows how humans could lose the war, or come close until the Defiance event. Humans had Biomen and the Hulkers, they had Syphon weapons how could they have come close to losing?

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We're not told. Part of me wants to see this as a war game or board game scenario: 9 billion humans with po-tech weaponry versus several million Votans with vo-tech weaponry and unambiguous air superiority. My gut instinct is that having thousands of orbital weapons platforms in near-Earth orbit is a pretty overwhelming advantage. We'd have been reduced to slowing their advance by engaging in guerilla tactics, forcing them to leave more and more of their army behind, after they conquered each town or region, to try to weed out human hit-and-run squads. So they could shell any city or town into rubble, like the Allies did against Germany and occupied France, but then had the rough and time consuming fight to force the Axis out of the rubble.

Probably the best historical precedent, though, for how we would be losing so badly would have been the Ploesti raid, where the US sacrificed huge numbers of bombers (and crews) to take out the Axis' most important fuel refineries and fuel storage facilities. When the Normandy invasion happened, Axis forces had terrain advantage and numerical superiority, but their tanks and aircraft were out of gas which gave the Allies the mobility and artillery advantages. Given the Votans' ability to use orbital bombardment to take out food supplies, fuel supplies, weapons manufacturing, military training bases, etc., our numerical superiority and terrain advantage might not have counted for much.

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Originally Posted by InfamousBrad

We're not told. Part of me wants to see this as a war game or board game scenario: 9 billion humans with po-tech weaponry versus several million Votans with vo-tech weaponry and unambiguous air superiority. My gut instinct is that having thousands of orbital weapons platforms in near-Earth orbit is a pretty overwhelming advantage. We'd have been reduced to slowing their advance by engaging in guerilla tactics, forcing them to leave more and more of their army behind, after they conquered each town or region, to try to weed out human hit-and-run squads. So they could shell any city or town into rubble, like the Allies did against Germany and occupied France, but then had the rough and time consuming fight to force the Axis out of the rubble.

Probably the best historical precedent, though, for how we would be losing so badly would have been the Ploesti raid, where the US sacrificed huge numbers of bombers (and crews) to take out the Axis' most important fuel refineries and fuel storage facilities. When the Normandy invasion happened, Axis forces had terrain advantage and numerical superiority, but their tanks and aircraft were out of gas which gave the Allies the mobility and artillery advantages. Given the Votans' ability to use orbital bombardment to take out food supplies, fuel supplies, weapons manufacturing, military training bases, etc., our numerical superiority and terrain advantage might not have counted for much.

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We could just have sent a bunch of NUKES! To go up and say hello c:

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Originally Posted by Vox Animus

We could just have sent a bunch of NUKES! To go up and say hello c:

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Nukes in space cannot create the pressure wave nor the superheated gases of a fireball as it can in an Atmosphere so unless the nukes can impact and penetrate the arks they would not do much damage, just FYI

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Originally Posted by Punisher Illinois Blue

I am just curous if anyone knows how humans could lose the war, or come close until the Defiance event. Humans had Biomen and the Hulkers, they had Syphon weapons how could they have come close to losing?

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Humans lost most of their soldiers due to the accidental handing out of 0.0 det. grenades that exploded in their faces once released.

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Originally Posted by jarmin kell

It not hit and run tactics..... it's called guerrilla warfare 1st battalion 3rd marines kanoehe bay Hawaii ooh rah

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I am aware tactics are more important than weapons however how are they going to one hit kill a Hulker? To make quick strike viable agianst Defiance Earth humans they would need something powerful enough to kill a Hulker fast. I havent seen anything that can do that job, the Monalith is questinable at best if it could kill a Hulker in one strike. I have a feeling though outside game mechanics a Hulker is probably good at killing Monoliths, all they have to do is grab on to it and rip it apart it would be to close to fire it weapons.

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Originally Posted by Punisher Illinois Blue

I am aware tactics are more important than weapons however how are they going to one hit kill a Hulker? To make quick strike viable agianst Defiance Earth humans they would need something powerful enough to kill a Hulker fast. I havent seen anything that can do that job, the Monalith is questinable at best if it could kill a Hulker in one strike. I have a feeling though outside game mechanics a Hulker is probably good at killing Monoliths, all they have to do is grab on to it and rip it apart it would be to close to fire it weapons.

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The only reason a Hulker is hard to kill in the game is because of game mechanics. If they were basing it on real life, a .50 cal would do the job just fine against almost any thing.

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Originally Posted by crasher

If they did, I missed it, but the V don't really seem to be in charge of the anthill.

OTOH, the V had/have interstellar travel in a way we only have movies and TV shows about, so how could they not exterminate us?
Yeah, I understand everyone was trying to be all friendly, but when the shtako hit the air circulation device the V had the upper hand.

I still think that all that debris impacting Terra would be enough to irradiate everything, dust-cloud the atmosphere, and pretty well moot the global warming/cooling point.

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I don't think it is a given that because they have FTLT that they would have better weapons. One thing that comes to mind is the Syphon weapons. I am sure humans made them based on what the EGO thing said to my character about those weapons. That they where out lawed because of their lethalness. It would be pointless to make a law to out law weapons your enemy is using on you when they dont even follow your laws.

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Originally Posted by Dandrielas

The only reason a Hulker is hard to kill in the game is because of game mechanics. If they were basing it on real life, a .50 cal would do the job just fine against almost any thing.

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We have to give it more credit than that. If hulkers where not very resistant to damage none of them would have survived the war because they are big targets.

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Originally Posted by Punisher Illinois Blue

We have to give it more credit than that. If hulkers where not very resistant to damage none of them would have survived the war because they are big targets.

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It has no armor equipped exposing it's flesh, it doesn't matter how hard you try to make flesh. At the end of the day, flesh is still pretty weak against almost anything. They probably survived it by going with other units. I am not saying they are not strong because one punch would break every bone, but a .50 cal can go through armor and concrete. It wouldn't stand a chance.

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Originally Posted by InfamousBrad

We're not told. Part of me wants to see this as a war game or board game scenario: 9 billion humans with po-tech weaponry versus several million Votans with vo-tech weaponry and unambiguous air superiority. My gut instinct is that having thousands of orbital weapons platforms in near-Earth orbit is a pretty overwhelming advantage. We'd have been reduced to slowing their advance by engaging in guerilla tactics, forcing them to leave more and more of their army behind, after they conquered each town or region, to try to weed out human hit-and-run squads. So they could shell any city or town into rubble, like the Allies did against Germany and occupied France, but then had the rough and time consuming fight to force the Axis out of the rubble.

Probably the best historical precedent, though, for how we would be losing so badly would have been the Ploesti raid, where the US sacrificed huge numbers of bombers (and crews) to take out the Axis' most important fuel refineries and fuel storage facilities. When the Normandy invasion happened, Axis forces had terrain advantage and numerical superiority, but their tanks and aircraft were out of gas which gave the Allies the mobility and artillery advantages. Given the Votans' ability to use orbital bombardment to take out food supplies, fuel supplies, weapons manufacturing, military training bases, etc., our numerical superiority and terrain advantage might not have counted for much.

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I believe the Votan would have followed part of what you said BUT their are a few reasons why it cant. One is motive they wanted to exterminate the human race during the war. That being the case they would have just polverised the planet from orbit and not bothred with any sea air or land battle. If pulverization didnt work they could then use special delivery weapons filled with bio or chemical weapons and drop it all over the planet, we know from the show they used those type of weapons on humans. All that damage would be ok because they would fix it with their terraforming equipment, or just use terraforming equipment from the start.

Ether the Votan suck at space warfare tactics OR they didnt have any ships with weapons on them.

I dont know what you mean by PO tech but from what I heard in game Syphon weapons are pretty lethal to the point they are out lawed. Fire power wise I think humans had better weapons. If they made syphon weapons for tanks ships and fighters they would be a forced not to be messed with.

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Originally Posted by Dandrielas

It has no armor equipped exposing it's flesh, it doesn't matter how hard you try to make flesh. At the end of the day, flesh is still pretty weak against almost anything. They probably survived it by going with other units. I am not saying they are not strong because one punch would break every bone, but a .50 cal can go through armor and concrete. It wouldn't stand a chance.

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I think that is a missconception to think flesh equals weakness. Now I am not saying a Hulker is as tough as a Crusher Xenomorph, at least I hope it isnt, but it can take twinlinked 20 mm gattling cannons to the head and 20 Mega Electron Volt Partacle Beam cannons to the head. Just one Mega Electron Volt is equal to 2.6 tons of tnt to the power of -26.

I cant figure the force of impact because I dont know Velocity of the Partcle beam but energy it self is pretty high. If someone gave me a 50 to fight the Crusher Xenomorph, and I lived long enough, I would use it on the guy who gave it to me.

Here is the kicker this will make you laugh or freek out. Here goes, your prob thinking "well thats fine and dandy but Xenomorphs are not real." In theo quantom phys they teach you that the galaxy is so big that what ever we make up actully has a high chance of being real.

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Originally Posted by Punisher Illinois Blue

I think that is a missconception to think flesh equals weakness. Now I am not saying a Hulker is as tough as a Crusher Xenomorph, at least I hope it isnt, but it can take twinlinked 20 mm gattling cannons to the head and 20 Mega Electron Volt Partacle Beam cannons to the head. Just one Mega Electron Volt is equal to 2.6 tons of tnt to the power of -26.

I cant figure the force of impact because I dont know Velocity of the Partcle beam but energy it self is pretty high. If someone gave me a 50 to fight the Crusher Xenomorph, and I lived long enough, I would use it on the guy who gave it to me.

Here is the kicker this will make you laugh or freek out. Here goes, your prob thinking "well thats fine and dandy but Xenomorphs are not real." In theo quantom phys they teach you that the galaxy is so big that what ever we make up actully has a high chance of being real.

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Hmm. That is interesting indeed. I am might start fearing zombies now...

The world server crashed and when it came back the votans ran around one-shotting everyone.

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Originally Posted by Dandrielas

Hmm. That is interesting indeed. I am might start fearing zombies now...

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Which type the new World War Z super hero like type zombies or the Dylon Dog Zombies?

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Originally Posted by carpesangrea

The world server crashed and when it came back the votans ran around one-shotting everyone.

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bug swithchers a.

It could be me, but somebody somewhere on one of the orbital ships makes a mistake (or not) and the whole planet below them turns into dogshtako.

Im suprised there even was a war going on between us and the Votan, probably were as suprised as us to see some intelligent life around the corner.

Still, if I look at the damage taken by the planet, I kinda feel it's like natives fighting the settlers. Only in this case the settlers were a bit too soft.

If it were me and I was Votan, I wouldve nuked/eradicated the planet, started terra-forming, problem solved. Who cares about intelligent life?

You spend 5.000 years in hypersleep to get killed by a bunch of monkeys?

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Originally Posted by Punisher Illinois Blue

... I dont know what you mean by PO tech ...

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It's in-universe slang, from the World of 2046 website. Vo-tech is short for "Votan technology;" presumably human technology got the nickname "po-tech" from reverse formation, that is to say, "poor technology." So, never mind the fact that in-game the VBI SMG does exactly equal damage to the VOT Pulser, in-universe, people are more afraid of the VOT Pulser than of a VBI SMG; it's why, when Defiance city lost its defense grid, they tried covertly buying Vo-tech weapons from Sulos colony rather than just legally putting in an order with Von Bach Industries.

Simple, really those alien "Monument Destroying Lasers", they destroyed our monuments and important buildings (see ID4 film). Mix with the "force shield" your nukes wont even overload it, alien tricks (see nearly every Sci-fi Alien invasion film)

Alternatively the human race took to long arguing on who should be in charge of our defence, (not everyone voting for the USA).

I just assumed at some point during the conflict the Votan started complaining how unbalanced Earth weapons were in PVP and we got nerfed.

That fits the Defiance lore, right? :D

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Originally Posted by InfamousBrad

It's in-universe slang, from the World of 2046 website. Vo-tech is short for "Votan technology;" presumably human technology got the nickname "po-tech" from reverse formation, that is to say, "poor technology." So, never mind the fact that in-game the VBI SMG does exactly equal damage to the VOT Pulser, in-universe, people are more afraid of the VOT Pulser than of a VBI SMG; it's why, when Defiance city lost its defense grid, they tried covertly buying Vo-tech weapons from Sulos colony rather than just legally putting in an order with Von Bach Industries.

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Thanks for the information I had a feeling PO tech meant poor or crap. Overall I agree human weapons prob where not as good but overall Syphon I think was the best I just dont know how it fits into the story. Like is it a special type of ammo or is the internals radically diffrent in a Syphon type weapon comparied to the regular equv.

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Originally Posted by Frozen

I just assumed at some point during the conflict the Votan started complaining how unbalanced Earth weapons were in PVP and we got nerfed.

That fits the Defiance lore, right? :D

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So that is why atvs dont explode from two direct misslies? =\ You can kill atvs with your fist faster in halo 3-4.

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Originally Posted by Punisher Illinois Blue

You can kill atvs with your fist faster in halo 3-4.

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Dude, comparing Defiance with the Halo franchise, don't even go there..

2 words: Steven Spielberg.. Nuff said.

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Originally Posted by Punisher Illinois Blue

I am just curous if anyone knows how humans could lose the war, or come close until the Defiance event. Humans had Biomen and the Hulkers, they had Syphon weapons how could they have come close to losing?

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because art imitates life, and we are destroying ourselves ...

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Originally Posted by Rumeyes

Dude, comparing Defiance with the Halo franchise, don't even go there..

2 words: Steven Spielberg.. Nuff said.

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Since George Lucas is super good friends with Steven Spielberg I wonder if he will give him ideas for what to do in the tv show.

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Originally Posted by Punisher Illinois Blue

Since George Lucas is super good friends with Steven Spielberg I wonder if he will give him ideas for what to do in the tv show.

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I really don't hope so. Halo still has its identity and hasn't become a watered down version of itself just to generate more money like Star Wars has.. I was so geeking out on the Halo 5 trailer. Tbh sometimes I imagine that EGO girl being Cortana. Makes Defiance play so much better :)

"Die? Didn't you know? Spartans never die!"