SCRIP MISSING: Taking to much?

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Originally Posted by Steel Fire

No one has reported any backlash who didn't absolutely exploit the vendor pricing, so it doesn't appear Trion is going after the people who may have simply sold a few pieces of old gear at inflated prices. Also, I don't see how a trifling 24 hr ban is unwarranted. Honestly, it was probably necessary. Without it, as soon as word of what was happening got out, you know exploiters would be trying to spread their ill-gotten scrip around among friends and alts to try and protect it.

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People have reported backlash, that did not exploit the shields. Anyone that made a great amount of scrip from the vender is liable to be banned and have their scrip taken away, because the vender bought items for far more than regular venders would, and apparently it's bad to take advantage of that. Just a 24 hour ban? That's understandable; my impression was that the people that exploited were getting permanent bans. Still, considering the numerous other exploits, this one alone getting so much attention is off.. I do believe it did some good though. PS3 chat was actually full of people trying to buy/trade after the EL exploit. Now, after people lose the scrip, we will see how well the economy on PS3 does. I hope it doesn't go back to the two or three people a day.

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Originally Posted by Bane_Of_Legends

Ok ok people, let's keep things peaceful.. So the EL vender had an exploit. People used the exploit to get big scrip. So just take the scrip that was exploited, away from the players. Don't do anything else, just that. To take more is unjust, especially to those that sold things to the vender without exploiting the glitch, and to ban players for it is a bit of a hypocritical move.....

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The problem is that people were spending scrip they didn't have.

Scenario:

Player has 500,000 scrip
Player spends 50,000 scrip to purchase 10 shields at EL vendor. (shields = 5000ea)
Player sells 10 shields back to vendor and makes 100,000 scrip.
Player now has 600,000 scrip

note:Player should have a total of 460,000 scrip at end of transaction.

Player now has 600,000 scrip
Player spends 50,000 scrip to purchase another 10 shields at EL vendor. (shields = 5000ea)
Player sells 10 shields back to vendor and makes 100,000 scrip.
Player now has 700,000 scrip

note:Player should have a total of 410,000 scrip at end of transaction.

Repeat this a few times and you will end up with 0 scrip, or a deficit.

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Originally Posted by bigguy

on ps3 there are a bunch of uneducated morons like mr dirtstar who did the expolit and bragged about going from 20k scrip to 5mil and then went in the game and started spreading rumors that scrip is now worthless because of what they did , i hope trion gets to these brainless people next

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In the world itself, there a bunch of morons who brag about exploiting others. Most of them work in an area called Wall Street. I will say that on the PS3, scrip was definitely not worthless after the EL exploit. The economy boomed, people actually wanted to buy and sell things. It was a nice to see after so long of not witnessing a working economy. I do agree though, that those that brag about exploiting something, deserve what they get. I mean, cmon.. Loose lips sink ships. (so do torpedoes and icebergs, but those are entirely different subjects)

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Originally Posted by Zugo

The problem is that people were spending scrip they didn't have.

Scenario:

Player has 500,000 scrip
Player spends 50,000 scrip to purchase 10 shields at EL vendor. (shields = 5000ea)
Player sells 10 shields back to vendor and makes 100,000 scrip.
Player now has 600,000 scrip

note:Player should have a total of 460,000 scrip at end of transaction.

Player now has 600,000 scrip
Player spends 50,000 scrip to purchase another 10 shields at EL vendor. (shields = 5000ea)
Player sells 10 shields back to vendor and makes 100,000 scrip.
Player now has 700,000 scrip

note:Player should have a total of 410,000 scrip at end of transaction.

Repeat this a few times and you will end up with 0 scrip, or a deficit.

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The maths hurt. x.x Would it be so difficult to see who bought the shields and sold them back, see how much they made from it, and then subtract that from whatever amount they have now? Like, if you started at 500k, made 1 mil from the shields, and ended with 1.5 mil. Do the venders not keep track of how much players earn from them, and how they earn it?

I'm not really complaining about anything, I'm actually trying to figure out how this works. If what I said above works, and if my suggestion about the other exploits was implemented, then it's seem like a very fair, very effective way of eliminating exploits and the gains from them, to me.

Edit: I understand that if you made the 1.5 mil from the exploit, and bought something for a million, then that scrip is gone and you should not have any scrip, because the million scrip still has to be taken away from the 500k you have left. I totally get that part. My scenario was, as mentioned above, you went from 500k to 1.5 mil and didn't buy anything with it, just kept it. Would you lose just the 1 mil, or all your scrip? Because the way people are complaining, seems to me like they're losing a lot more scrip than they got from the exploit, because the vender might not be able to keep track of how much they actually got from the shield alone, and not from selling other items to it.. I hope I'm making some kind of sense.

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Originally Posted by Bane_Of_Legends

People have reported backlash, that did not exploit the shields. Anyone that made a great amount of scrip from the vender is liable to be banned and have their scrip taken away, because the vender bought items for far more than regular venders would, and apparently it's bad to take advantage of that. Just a 24 hour ban? That's understandable; my impression was that the people that exploited were getting permanent bans. Still, considering the numerous other exploits, this one alone getting so much attention is off.. I do believe it did some good though. PS3 chat was actually full of people trying to buy/trade after the EL exploit. Now, after people lose the scrip, we will see how well the economy on PS3 does. I hope it doesn't go back to the two or three people a day.

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Taking advantage of the boosts we had to farm up a ton of drops specifically to sell them to the vendor that is giving obviously inflated prices is still abusing an exploit and was potentially a more profitable venture than buying and reselling shields.

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Originally Posted by Bane_Of_Legends

In the world itself, there a bunch of morons who brag about exploiting others. Most of them work in an area called Wall Street. I will say that on the PS3, scrip was definitely not worthless after the EL exploit. The economy boomed, people actually wanted to buy and sell things. It was a nice to see after so long of not witnessing a working economy. I do agree though, that those that brag about exploiting something, deserve what they get. I mean, cmon.. Loose lips sink ships. (so do torpedoes and icebergs, but those are entirely different subjects)

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Fortunately, this is a game, so the exploiters can be punished more easier than those Wall Street hacks. Of course the economy boomed - you had a bunch of people with scrip that they didn't have before (and rightly shouldn't have had to begin with). If 100 people go out and rob banks, then go to the same town and spend that money, the economy of that town would boom as well - but it would be done on the back of stolen money. That is not a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Bane_Of_Legends

The maths hurt. x.x Would it be so difficult to see who bought the shields and sold them back, see how much they made from it, and then subtract that from whatever amount they have now? Like, if you started at 500k, made 1 mil from the shields, and ended with 1.5 mil. Do the venders not keep track of how much players earn from them, and how they earn it?

I'm not really complaining about anything, I'm actually trying to figure out how this works. If what I said above works, and if my suggestion about the other exploits was implemented, then it's seem like a very fair, very effective way of eliminating exploits and the gains from them, to me.

Edit: I understand that if you made the 1.5 mil from the exploit, and bought something for a million, then that scrip is gone and you should not have any scrip, because the million scrip still has to be taken away from the 500k you have left. I totally get that part. My scenario was, as mentioned above, you went from 500k to 1.5 mil and didn't buy anything with it, just kept it. Would you lose just the 1 mil, or all your scrip? Because the way people are complaining, seems to me like they're losing a lot more scrip than they got from the exploit, because the vender might not be able to keep track of how much they actually got from the shield alone, and not from selling other items to it.. I hope I'm making some kind of sense.

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I think I get what you are saying, but I personally don't think that would be appropriate punishment. What is appropriate is exactly what Trion appears to be doing, and that's not only taking away the scrip that was pure profit from the resells, but also the difference in what the vendor should have paid for those items.

i.e. I buy a shield for 1000 scrip from a vendor. Normally, if I sell that shield back, I only get 600 scrip in return, therefore I loose 400 scrip from the transaction. With the EL vendor, I buy that shield, sell it to the vendor for 1500 scrip, which means I come out 900 scrip ahead. By all rights, Trion should take 900 scrip from my account and not just the 500 scrip extra the vendor gave me.

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Originally Posted by Steel Fire

Taking advantage of the boosts we had to farm up a ton of drops specifically to sell them to the vendor that is giving obviously inflated prices is still abusing an exploit and was potentially a more profitable venture than buying and reselling shields.

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True. But then, farming itself is an exploit. :/ I guess it's just the way you look at it. Different people have different opinions about the subject. I just don't want to see anyone banned anymore. PS3 is already hurting in the player base because so many quit when they found out there's a memory leak.

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Originally Posted by Steel Fire

Taking advantage of the boosts we had to farm up a ton of drops specifically to sell them to the vendor that is giving obviously inflated prices is still abusing an exploit and was potentially a more profitable venture than buying and reselling shields.

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I can clearly see how the purchasing the shield and re-selling it back was a clear exploit and those that did should be punished. But what you are describing is just how many people play the game. Myself, like a lot of others always take advantage of boosts to get gear to sell/scrap. I don't think its fair to punish those that did the usual thing of selling the gear they farmed, just because they discovered this vendor was paying more for it, especially, without any announcements by Trion that it was broke in that manner. I wasn't playing this weekend so I did not have access to the EL vendor.

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Originally Posted by Bane_Of_Legends

The maths hurt. x.x Would it be so difficult to see who bought the shields and sold them back, see how much they made from it, and then subtract that from whatever amount they have now? Like, if you started at 500k, made 1 mil from the shields, and ended with 1.5 mil. Do the venders not keep track of how much players earn from them, and how they earn it?

I'm not really complaining about anything, I'm actually trying to figure out how this works. If what I said above works, and if my suggestion about the other exploits was implemented, then it's seem like a very fair, very effective way of eliminating exploits and the gains from them, to me.

Edit: I understand that if you made the 1.5 mil from the exploit, and bought something for a million, then that scrip is gone and you should not have any scrip, because the million scrip still has to be taken away from the 500k you have left. I totally get that part. My scenario was, as mentioned above, you went from 500k to 1.5 mil and didn't buy anything with it, just kept it. Would you lose just the 1 mil, or all your scrip? Because the way people are complaining, seems to me like they're losing a lot more scrip than they got from the exploit, because the vender might not be able to keep track of how much they actually got from the shield alone, and not from selling other items to it.. I hope I'm making some kind of sense.

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If you started with 500,000 but ended with 1,500,000 you would be far into the red.

Scenario:

Player has 500,000 scrip
Player spends 500,000 scrip to purchase 100 shields at EL vendor. (shields = 5000ea)
Player sells 100 shields back to vendor and makes 600,000 scrip.
Player now has 600,000 scrip

note:Player should have a total of 100,000 scrip at end of transaction.

Player has 600,000 scrip
Player spends 500,000 scrip to purchase 100 shields at EL vendor. (shields = 5000ea)
Player sells 100 shields back to vendor and makes 600,000 scrip.
Player now has 700,000 scrip

note:Player should have a total of -400,000 scrip at end of transaction.

Repeat this a few more times and this player is millions of scrip in the red.

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Originally Posted by BJWyler

Fortunately, this is a game, so the exploiters can be punished more easier than those Wall Street hacks. Of course the economy boomed - you had a bunch of people with scrip that they didn't have before (and rightly shouldn't have had to begin with). If 100 people go out and rob banks, then go to the same town and spend that money, the economy of that town would boom as well - but it would be done on the back of stolen money. That is not a good thing.



I think I get what you are saying, but I personally don't think that would be appropriate punishment. What is appropriate is exactly what Trion appears to be doing, and that's not only taking away the scrip that was pure profit from the resells, but also the difference in what the vendor should have paid for those items.

i.e. I buy a shield for 1000 scrip from a vendor. Normally, if I sell that shield back, I only get 600 scrip in return, therefore I loose 400 scrip from the transaction. With the EL vendor, I buy that shield, sell it to the vendor for 1500 scrip, which means I come out 900 scrip ahead. By all rights, Trion should take 900 scrip from my account and not just the 500 scrip extra the vendor gave me.

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The stolen money thing is true, and I see how that would be bad in the real world. But this IS a game. And one that was seriously lacking in economy before the exploit. I personally think there should have been a stimulus package of scrip long before this. Maybe the PS3 economy could've been saved then. :c

And I understand what your'e saying about people losing more scrip than what they got as profit. I just think that it's going to hurt the economy even more. I don't think it could get much worse than 2-3 people a day looking to buy/trade, but I could be wrong. I very much so hope that I'm right that it can't get much worse.