This needs to be addressed since pms aren't being acknowledged.

As a parent, this conversation seems ever so familiar.

"Did you break this vase?"

"The vase isn't broken."

"It is broken. Did you break it?"

"I didn't break it!"

"Come on now, did you break the vase?"

"It was broken when I got here."

"It wasn't. Did you break the vase?"

"No!"

"Did you?"

"Oh! That vase. Yeah, I broke that."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bonehead

and BTW the troopers NEVER dropped good loot.
It was the elites that stopped dropping good gear.
****-oh-dear I could go for one of those doubles myself.

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Yeah I didn't want to correct them, I'm not sure I would say never, but the Viscera dropped blues almost every time. At this point it is clear that they really have no clue what was going on here, except the fact that they "aren't changing it back - whatever it was" (lol).

Honestly I think there's a big problem here, and it's not exactly what people think. The voices of defiance (Trick, Greg, and Elizabeth) play a different defiance than we do. Even though it's pretty obvious that they don't play it that often, except maybe trick, they work in the future Defiance world. It has to be really hard to keep the two worlds separate (the live world, and the Dev world). I highly suspect that this is a large part of the problem.

Consider the V. Emergency problem, for them this change had probably been in place for months, so by the time it hit live they were use to it. Add that to the fact that the emergencies were probably changing all the time in the Dev world, and it makes sense that they might not notice. But, that brings us to the other problem: they don't talk to us, and they surely don't listen to us - until we scream... for months.

In an earlier post I pointed out that they rarely, if ever, actually participate in the conversations on the forums. Sure they swing in on occasion to tell us something, but actually engage in the conversations... that rarely happens. If they had actually taken the time to discuss this a lot of thing may have been different - including this latest misstep of theirs. But, I'm not one to speculate about what could have been, so instead let's look to the future.

Moving forward they need to start listening to us. I know that the community can have some misconceptions about things, but that's why it's important to engage in the conversation; actually listen and respond to what is said - search for the heart of the issue, find the whole truth. Like Nefarious noted, they are only human. Which is exactly why they need to realize that fact and use the community's knowledge of the live game as a tool in their toolbox. And, through real conversation with us, solicit valuable feedback - listen to us and engage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nilxain

Y
Honestly I think there's a big problem here, and it's not exactly what people think. The voices of defiance (Trick, Greg, and Elizabeth) play a different defiance than we do.

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This is a poor attempt to excuse away the lack of doing their job(especially Dahanese). The last almost 8 months have had such a large volume of bad decisions, false statements, and much much more that it really is time to put away the excuse generator for the veritable incompetence that is being exhibited almost weekly. There is a core, fundamental, flaw in the management and implementation of things that wont change any time soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

This is a poor attempt to excuse away the lack of doing their job(especially Dahanese). The last almost 8 months have had such a large volume of bad decisions, false statements, and much much more that it really is time to put away the excuse generator for the veritable incompetence that is being exhibited almost weekly. There is a core, fundamental, flaw in the management and implementation of things that wont change any time soon.

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I'm not trying to excuse anything, but I'm also not interested in half truths - I prefer the whole truth, and what I said is part of this issue. What I'm trying to communicate to them, in a way that they will actually hear, is that they are only hurting themselves by not listening to the people who actually play the live game, and only the live game.

Don't confuse my acknowledgement of the whole issue as dismissal of their blatant negligence of their community. Instead I'm trying to effect change with sincere communication - starting with the acknowledgement of the whole problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nilxain

I'm not trying to excuse anything, but I'm also not interested in half truths - I prefer the whole truth, and what I said is part of this issue. What I'm trying to communicate to them, in a way that they will actually hear, is that they are only hurting themselves by not listening to the people who actually play the live game, and only the live game.

Don't confuse my acknowledgement of the whole issue as dismissal of their blatant negligence of their community. Instead I'm trying to effect change with sincere communication - starting with the acknowledgement of the whole problem.

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This is the core problem, I think. Our track record of knowing what is really going on in the game is so much better than their track record that I can't even fathom why they would still think that they're the ones that know better than we do when there is repeated, consistent feedback from the community. I don't know whether they're just not reading it or are ignoring us because they're suffering from some kind of misplaced hubris, but they need to get on board. The next time anyone at Trion finds themselves typing "I know we've answered this before in the past," they need to just delete their post and go back to figure out where they went wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nilxain

Moving forward they need to start listening to us. I know that the community can have some misconceptions about things, but that's why it's important to engage in the conversation; actually listen and respond to what is said - search for the heart of the issue, find the whole truth. Like Nefarious noted, they are only human. Which is exactly why they need to realize that fact and use the community's knowledge of the live game as a tool in their toolbox. And, through real conversation with us, solicit valuable feedback - listen to us and engage.

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I don't think the problem is that they're not listening to us, or that they're incompetent. I feel like they've been doing their best to listen to us, but they don't really understand what we're saying or asking. I mean, they understand the words and the arguments, but they don't have the game knowledge that is necessary to 1) filter and prioritise what gets actually transmitted to the dev team and 2) summarize the issues and questions in ways that the devs can understand and address. When Trick gets direct questions, his answers are usually pretty clear, accurate and argumented. But my feeling is that too much information is lost between us and the devs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tekrunner

...they don't really understand what we're saying or asking. I mean, they understand the words and the arguments, but they don't have the game knowledge that is necessary to 1) filter and prioritise what gets actually transmitted to the dev team and 2) summarize the issues and questions in ways that the devs can understand and address. When Trick gets direct questions, his answers are usually pretty clear, accurate and argumented. But my feeling is that too much information is lost between us and the devs.

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Yes, exactly what I'm trying to relay. "What we have here, is a failure, to communicate."

Just take one of the most resent live stream responses from Trick about synergy mods with no guns. His response was correct, but it completely missed the point of the question - which was that there are synergy mods for guns that don't have that synergy available, or actually aren't even in the game (Example: scavenger sniper rifles). In short, he didn't understand the question - or maybe the gravity of its implication.

This kind of communication failure is FAR too common here, and largely due to Trion's failure to hear what were are saying (I believe this is Elizabeth's responsibility atm), and misinterpretation of what we've said; which all could be remedied if they would actually participate on the forums - not just swing in to update us.

They need to take the time to understand, and the solution (in my mind) is solicitation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tekrunner

they don't have the game knowledge that is necessary

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On this point specifically: I don't think Elizabeth has the knowledge of the game needed to bridge the gap between us and the devs. Since it's not the Devs job to probe, understand, and engage these forums, she needs to step up her interaction with us while simultaneously increasing her knowledge of the game - her activity on these forums is far too superficial as is her knowledge of the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tekrunner

I don't think the problem is that they're not listening to us, or that they're incompetent. I feel like they've been doing their best to listen to us, but they don't really understand what we're saying or asking. .

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yes....its really difficult to understand

"VOLGE EMERGENCIES WERE NERFED"

"VOLGE NO longer drop anything"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shogo_Yahagi

As a parent, this conversation seems ever so familiar.

"Did you break this vase?"

"The vase isn't broken."

"It is broken. Did you break it?"

"I didn't break it!"

"Come on now, did you break the vase?"

"It was broken when I got here."

"It wasn't. Did you break the vase?"

"No!"

"Did you?"

"Oh! That vase. Yeah, I broke that."

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Thank GOD someone else sees it like it is...all these people making excuses for them is really, really sad to see....God grow some backbone people, stand up for yourself.

Your their CUSTOMER. If you ordered a meal at a restaurant, ordered a steak, and found a maggot in it. Would you complain? What if the manager, told you, that you were WRONG, and there was no maggot. You see the maggot, in front of you, anytime you try to eat the steak, but no, the manager tells you, there is not.


Would you just sit there and eat the maggot steak? Christ im sure some of you would by the sounds of you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nefarious

We are in contact with 3 devs? Dahanese, Overload, and Trick. You expect 3 ppl to know ever little minuscule thing about the game like Volge drop rates and white bungee cords? They are more busy with bringing new features or balancing/fixing existing ones.

Nothing stings. I just have enough common sense to know that ppl are imperfect and don't freak out about it when they don't know stuff. Especially common sense stuff we the players can piece together or already know the answers to.

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Perfect example.

Dude, read your post....Do we expect the devs to know whats going on with the game?? OF COURSE MAN!!! WTF ARE U THINKING????

God, have you ever stood up for yourself?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nilxain

Yeah I didn't want to correct them, I'm not sure I would say never, but the Viscera dropped blues almost every time. At this point it is clear that they really have no clue what was going on here, except the fact that they "aren't changing it back - whatever it was" (lol).

Honestly I think there's a big problem here, and it's not exactly what people think. The voices of defiance (Trick, Greg, and Elizabeth) play a different defiance than we do. Even though it's pretty obvious that they don't play it that often, except maybe trick, they work in the future Defiance world. It has to be really hard to keep the two worlds separate (the live world, and the Dev world). I highly suspect that this is a large part of the problem.

Consider the V. Emergency problem, for them this change had probably been in place for months, so by the time it hit live they were use to it. Add that to the fact that the emergencies were probably changing all the time in the Dev world, and it makes sense that they might not notice. But, that brings us to the other problem: they don't talk to us, and they surely don't listen to us - until we scream... for months.

In an earlier post I pointed out that they rarely, if ever, actually participate in the conversations on the forums. Sure they swing in on occasion to tell us something, but actually engage in the conversations... that rarely happens. If they had actually taken the time to discuss this a lot of thing may have been different - including this latest misstep of theirs. But, I'm not one to speculate about what could have been, so instead let's look to the future.

Moving forward they need to start listening to us. I know that the community can have some misconceptions about things, but that's why it's important to engage in the conversation; actually listen and respond to what is said - search for the heart of the issue, find the whole truth. Like Nefarious noted, they are only human. Which is exactly why they need to realize that fact and use the community's knowledge of the live game as a tool in their toolbox. And, through real conversation with us, solicit valuable feedback - listen to us and engage.

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I think this is a very poignant point. As matter of fact, Trick has tripped himself up a few times on the livestreams when talking about future things for the game because he is so used to seeing the Dev version of the game as opposed to the live version - he's even mentioned it as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Red Mephisto

Thank GOD someone else sees it like it is...all these people making excuses for them is really, really sad to see....God grow some backbone people, stand up for yourself.

Your their CUSTOMER. If you ordered a meal at a restaurant, ordered a steak, and found a maggot in it. Would you complain? What if the manager, told you, that you were WRONG, and there was no maggot. You see the maggot, in front of you, anytime you try to eat the steak, but no, the manager tells you, there is not.


Would you just sit there and eat the maggot steak? Christ im sure some of you would by the sounds of you.

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The problem is that this analogy doesn't fit the circumstances of some of the complaints. Take the white bungie cord thing for example. I can't believe that this is even an issue on the forums, other than a submitted bug report. Hell, I didn't even notice the white bungie cord thing until it was mentioned on the forums - and I drive a Challenger regularly.

The problem is that there are many issues in this game which are not only minor, but so far from gamebreaking, that it is sheer rediculousness that they even get the traction that they do. A maggot is one thing, but many of the complaints here amount to nothing but a single strand of hair that was discovered on the table.