So is there going to be an Official Explanation of the Grenade Changes?

I personally would like an official explanation of the grenade changes, as it sounds as if we're going to lose grenades if we have multiple orange fragnovas, as an example.

So I think, from what I've read, it goes like this:

After DLC drops the EGO on the grenades won't matter and all Orange grenades of each type will be identical.

(i.e. All Orange Fragnovas will now have 0 det time, 4000 Max DMG, 2000 min DMG, 3 second refresh - there will be no more STD, PRO etc. nor will there be 55Z, 25W, etc.)

Our current grenades will be replaced with "stacks" -- we will keep the "best" of each type that we have - so if we have multiple orange frags - bye bye to all but 1 - this includes purple, blue, or below as well as multiple orange frags, clusters, bios, flashes, or pyros.

So the "best" thing anyone will be able to have in their inventory post-DLC will be 1 Orange Frag stack, 1 Orange Cluster stack, 1 Orange Pyro stack, 1 Orange Bio stack, and 1 Orange Flash Stack -- oh and we can try to get an orange Infector "Hatchling" stack after DLC drops.

And after DLC we also will not be able to trade, salvage or buy grenades from other players.

That about cover the relevant info?

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Originally Posted by Overtkill21

I personally would like an official explanation of the grenade changes, as it sounds as if we're going to lose grenades if we have multiple orange fragnovas, as an example.

So I think, from what I've read, it goes like this:

<b>

After DLC drops the EGO on the grenades won't matter and all Orange grenades of each type will be identical.

(i.e. All Orange Fragnovas will now have 0 det time, 4000 Max DMG, 2000 min DMG, 3 second refresh - there will be no more STD, PRO etc. nor will there be 55Z, 25W, etc.)

Our current grenades will be replaced with "stacks" -- we will keep the "best" of each type that we have - so if we have multiple orange frags - bye bye to all but 1 - this includes purple, blue, or below as well as multiple orange frags, clusters, bios, flashes, or pyros.

So the "best" thing anyone will be able to have in their inventory post-DLC will be 1 Orange Frag stack, 1 Orange Cluster stack, 1 Orange Pyro stack, 1 Orange Bio stack, and 1 Orange Flash Stack -- oh and we can try to get an orange Infector "Hatchling" stack after DLC drops.

And after DLC we also will not be able to trade, salvage or buy grenades from other players.

</b>That about cover the relevant info?

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You mis-speeled 'Apology'.

It isn't speeled : explanation.

Just trying to help. :)




[For you who want to correct me, the word 'speel' IS the joke.]
Please, Carry on.

Really just asking to help Trion avoid the wall of threads about "My Missing Legendary Grenades" after they "fix" what didn't need any fixing.

Seems to me they don't need any help with avoiding threads of any kind.
They can ignore with the best of them.

They must not want people to use grenades. That is the only thing that makes sense to me after playing on the test server for a while. You only have five grenades of any type max and when they are gone it's a long dry spell till you buy more. You walk past 3/4 of grenade drops that you can't pick up because you are full of that type but not the ones in your loadout. No easy way to switch between types either.
It would have worked fine if they had just included nades in the same ammo drops that happen all the time. The way they did it is a clumsy, cumbersome, wretched trainwreck of a combat system.

(okay the last sentence is a bit over the top but I REALLY wanted to use wretched in a sentence. Haven't done it in soooo long).

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Originally Posted by Bonehead

(okay the last sentence is a bit over the top but I REALLY wanted to use wretched in a sentence. Haven't done it in soooo long).

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Actually thats pretty accurate. Even though ive only spent about an hour on the test server, I can say that the new grenade system is terrible. Even before grenades were kinda underpowered and were mostly useful in only a handful of situations, but now they are just not even there when you need them.

If they really insist on sticking to the current system they need to let us regenerate them with the normal ammo drops instead of special ones. Or they can just keep the old system but give players 3 nades on separate cooldowns instead of 1 and increase the cooldowns(which would honestly be the better idea in my opinion).

They could go a long way to fixing the whole stinking mess by making the regular ammo boxes replenish your grenades. If they're worried about the new grenades being overpowered and thus overused, make the boxes only give one grenade of each type and only when that grenade stack is at zero.

Good grief, good game mechanics and balance isn't rocket science, there's dozens of games that have gotten it right, or at least close to right, that they could learn from.

So i take it my entire pro 55z collection will just disappear from my inventory!!! if this is true im fuccing done with this game..i swear all trion ever does is devalue my inventory and im so sick of it


and another thing...my high ego frag with a max dmg of around 4400 will get nerfed ??(thats if i do get to keep it)

From what I understand (and from what Trick said) those ojs aren't going anywhere. You'll be able to salvage them. Or sell I assume. Trade? Nope.

If they're smart about it, the old stuff can't be overwritten. But, well, their history and all that...

I still want to know an official explanation of this.

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Originally Posted by 3rdpig

Good grief, good game mechanics and balance isn't rocket science, there's dozens of games that have gotten it right, or at least close to right, that they could learn from.

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And we would all be good in the 'hood if they actually paid attention to other games out there... besides Rift or Trove, that is.

I haven't seen much about old grenades besides the "antique" thing (don't know what that means). A new Purple Frag I saw had 4500/1300 DMG though so I imagine a new OJ would be pushing 5000/2000.

you cant TRADE grenades when DLC hits??

are you joking?

WHO the HELL thought of this idiotic idea???

and who gave it the go ahead?

Was there a mass amount of requests to change grenades? why not work on the things THAT NEEDED fixing??

wtf??

Oh, also


WTF????????

I believe this is the relevant information from http://forums.defiance.com/showthrea...82#post1248382

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Originally Posted by TrickDempsey

Hi folks!
When we changed the grenades to being consumable, we did so to address a variety of issues.

(...)

Risk-reward

Grenades had a serious risk-reward imbalance in a variety of common situations. With a fast-fire grenade thrown from a third-person perspective, misses were common and the long cooldown on grenades made this incredibly punishing. (...)

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They're difficult to hit with, so most of the time, they're wasted; therefore, they've neatly solved the aim problem by giving you a limited supply so that you run out and stop missing with them. Aside from pointing out the obvious contradiction in calling them fast-firing and long-cooldown in the same sentence, which would just be unkind, does that about sum it up?

(It's worth going back and reading the original. In the deleted text, indicated by ellipses in parentheses, he addressed the lack of identity for grenades, which they seem to have addressed by making them all the same, and an amusingly ironic sentence that said the old system robbed players of choice.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shogo_Yahagi

I believe this is the relevant information from http://forums.defiance.com/showthrea...82#post1248382



They're difficult to hit with, so most of the time, they're wasted; therefore, they've neatly solved the aim problem by giving you a limited supply so that you run out and stop missing with them. Aside from pointing out the obvious contradiction in calling them fast-firing and long-cooldown in the same sentence, which would just be unkind, does that about sum it up?

(It's worth going back and reading the original. In the deleted text, indicated by ellipses in parentheses, he addressed the lack of identity for grenades, which they seem to have addressed by making them all the same, and an amusingly ironic sentence that said the old system robbed players of choice.)

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Lol, oh yea that post was a real doozy, my first thought after reading it was "Joke, has to be a joke"
and then "what a load of ... very insightful ideas" :rolleyes:

You know....it's honestly not that bad.

The only real drawback is being "out of grenades" when you have 4 other types filled.

If Trion could switch this to a preference based system.....(where you mark which order you like them).....and change the current loadout to the available grenade automatically the discussion would be over, for the most part.

The main issue I have with this is that it deactivates your grenade slot after you shoot your load. There isn't enough time to go into loadouts to switch grenades mid-battle. So fix that one part Trion. Give us a ranking system for the grenade types we would prefer and have them auto load when they are available. Done. Happy customers.

Again, if you have multiple orange grenades of the same type I'm willing to buy one. Looking for pyro, frag, and flash.

Umfafa Umfafason in game, or oneinchgroup

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Originally Posted by Shogo_Yahagi

They're difficult to hit with, so most of the time, they're wasted

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Grenades? Difficult to hit with?

In PVE they're gold. Rarely miss with a nade. Trajectory, much?

;)

http://forums.defiance.com/showthrea...ooked-at-again.

Direct your discussions there, since it's in the alpha section. I have Trick's replies in regards to grenades originally with my own responses to them, with other people chiming in or adding their thoughts. Trick has been pm'd the thread and I'm sure dahanese has looked at it, maybe we'll get some responses tomorrow. I think I used up my allotted Trion responses for the day from Trick and Dahanese, or maybe for the week, who knows. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Umfafa

Grenades? Difficult to hit with?

In PVE they're gold. Rarely miss with a nade. Trajectory, much?

;)

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Well, I can't unerringly Tomahawk them across the map like a Raider, but I usually hit with them too. According to Trion, though, the problem is that they're hard to hit with, and they attempted to solve that problem by giving you a limited number, which is, to put it as gently as possible, somewhat counterintuitive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bonehead

Seems to me they don't need any help with avoiding threads of any kind.
They can ignore with the best of them.

They must not want people to use grenades. That is the only thing that makes sense to me after playing on the test server for a while. You only have five grenades of any type max and when they are gone it's a long dry spell till you buy more. You walk past 3/4 of grenade drops that you can't pick up because you are full of that type but not the ones in your loadout. No easy way to switch between types either.
It would have worked fine if they had just included nades in the same ammo drops that happen all the time. The way they did it is a clumsy, cumbersome, wretched trainwreck of a combat system.

(okay the last sentence is a bit over the top but I REALLY wanted to use wretched in a sentence. Haven't done it in soooo long).

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I can't disagree with that statement however. I do not mind the change in making grenades consumables. To me, it didn't make much sense to have an unlimited supply to begin with - I always thought they should be treated like ammunition in that you will expend it at some point. However, saying that, the replenishment system should have been set up the same as ammunition. I think that would solve a lot of problems, including how to replenish in Co-ops and PvP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shogo_Yahagi

Well, I can't unerringly Tomahawk them across the map like a Raider, but I usually hit with them too. According to Trion, though, the problem is that they're hard to hit with, and they attempted to solve that problem by giving you a limited number, which is, to put it as gently as possible, somewhat counterintuitive.

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Would have been more satisfying if at least SOME of our 'nades had homing capability like the raider Molotov Cocktails do. And the range and un-erring accuracy of a 99er's underhand lob is a wonderment to behold as well, until you remember that it's YOU that it's going to hit EVERY time.

I use Bio, key my RMB to 'aim' and frequently see the 'nade sail 30* left/right of the intended impact point [the intended victim's feet], and often about 20 meters passed, too. And this is while standing still. Damned if I can get them to work in any satisfying way with consistency while trying to slow Forges down at scrappers.

With the realization of only having 5 'nades, I'll just stop bothering to use them at all.

Thanks for the help, TRION. I feel my game play experience satisfaction hitting new limits soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bonehead

[snip]

They must not want people to use grenades. That is the only thing that makes sense to me after playing on the test server for a while.

[snip]

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And BJW above me, as well. Consumables that replenish at a cache. 3 to 5 at a time is fine if people learn to use them tactically instead of carpetbombing as they tend to with launchers now.

The problem is that they either make them available at a cache, or let us gather them up and sell the excess for scrip/A-S. One or the other, not 'neither'.

From crasher;

"The problem is that they either make them available at a cache, or let us gather them up and sell the excess for scrip/A-S. One or the other, not 'neither'."

Yes yes yes!