people that do not buy the dlc's...

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Originally Posted by Shadow Andreas

The only way that I can see for them to make it "fair" for the people that place the batteries is to make everyone that did not place the batteries pay scrip to enter the ship. That way everyone has to pay in some form to get to the WM.....I'm sure that most will hate this....but it's just me throwing out ideas (good and bad).

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Actually a good idea, those who don't have the dlc have to pay 10ķ to enter.

Sorted. :)

There's already an incentive to own the DLC if you do a Arkbreak and you don't own it then you can't equip any weapons you earn. Some do Arkbreakers just for the keys/xp so maybe a further step would be that if they don't have the DLC they can participate in the fight but can't earn script/xp/weapons etc.. until they do.

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Originally Posted by Shadow Andreas

The only way that I can see for them to make it "fair" for the people that place the batteries is to make everyone that did not place the batteries pay scrip to enter the ship. That way everyone has to pay in some form to get to the WM.....I'm sure that most will hate this....but it's just me throwing out ideas (good and bad).

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i totally disagree with this because if you buy the dlc you have already paid for the right to enter the interiors, if you did not buy the dlc you never paid for the right to enter them so you should not be allowed to. as i have said a few times already why should people that did not pay for the dlc be allowed to do the same stuff the people that did pay for it? the only thing they are not doing as i have said before is the 45min missions that you have to do to be able to call down the arkfalls.

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Originally Posted by Shadow Andreas

Not sure where you are playing but there is always a ton of ArkFalls and ArkBreaks on my map. I constantly see a Major of each and at least 4 minors of each (with maybe a minute or two delay once one ends to when another pops up).

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Yes, generally speaking, the [b]total[/bold] number of Arkfalls and the new "Arkbreak"(?) spawn points combined are about the same as pre-DLC. But if they lock out non-payers from the new Arkbreaks, they would in essense be reducing the amount of content available to to said non-payers because there would be a reduced number of Arkfalls available.

To explain it in more simple terms:

Lets say pre-DLC we had 20 Arkfalls going in the nothern area above S.F.

Now, post-DLC, we still have 20, but 7 of those might be the new minor/major spawn points for the new DLC Arkbreaks.

Thus a reduction in available pre-DLC Arkfalls. If they are going to lock out non-payers from the new DLC Arkbreaks (which I have no issue with), then they would need to bring up the number of pre-DLC Arkfalls to pre-DLC levels or it would be a reduction in content for the non-payers. If they didn't, they probably risk losing more players than they currrently are.

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Originally Posted by Shadow Andreas

The only way that I can see for them to make it "fair" for the people that place the batteries is to make everyone that did not place the batteries pay scrip to enter the ship. That way everyone has to pay in some form to get to the WM.....I'm sure that most will hate this....but it's just me throwing out ideas (good and bad).

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I can 100% agree and support this.

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Originally Posted by Littleweasel

getting free batteries hardly justifies the price of the dlc and non dlc buyer are not suppose to be able to buy the batteries or call down the arkfalls so basically they just leach off the people that can and do call them down.

as i have said before i don't care that they can battle outside the called down arkfall i just do not think they should be allowed to enter the interior of the arkfall since basically that's what the people that bought the dlc were suppose to be paying for, the ability to call down arkfalls and to go into the interior of the arkfalls that were called down.

this dlc is not worth the price you pay for it if you can get most of the benifits of it without paying for it.

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Dear lord, what do you expect for $10? A personalized song? Dance? What then? You have to remember that the playing-field must remain level and everyone be given the same opportunities as everyone else for success. Else the PVP in this game will quickly die which is a very large fraction of the population.

Secondly, free batteries for an unlimited amount of time, is indeed well worth the $10.00 -- perhaps not right this second, but a few months down the road when you're still getting the free batteries, you'll see the value in it.

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Originally Posted by TalynOne

There's already an incentive to own the DLC if you do a Arkbreak and you don't own it then you can't equip any weapons you earn. Some do Arkbreakers just for the keys/xp so maybe a further step would be that if they don't have the DLC they can participate in the fight but can't earn script/xp/weapons etc.. until they do.

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big deal they can't equipe the weapons they get from them, they can still sell them.
i do agree with the one point you had:
"if they don't have the DLC they can participate in the fight but can't earn script/xp/weapons etc.. until they do."
at least it would either stop them from going to them taking a spot from a person that does own it, or maybe even get them to buy it?

im a strong believer in if you didn't pay for it you shouldn't be able to play it. take call of duty for example when they bring out a new map pack/dlc the only people that can play on the maps are the people that bought the dlc

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Originally Posted by Littleweasel

i totally disagree with this because if you buy the dlc you have already paid for the right to enter the interiors, if you did not buy the dlc you never paid for the right to enter them so you should not be allowed to. as i have said a few times already why should people that did not pay for the dlc be allowed to do the same stuff the people that did pay for it? the only thing they are not doing as i have said before is the 45min missions that you have to do to be able to call down the arkfalls.

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I totally understand weasel....the problem will then be having enough people to actually beat the WM. I have the DLC and I place batteries whenever there is a need for one....but as I said before, I'm sure there are DLC owners that hold their batteries for as long as they can so they don't have to buy them. A few times I have placed more than one battery with a group of people standing around....and I'm sure some of them were DLC owners (I don't know this for sure to be honest....but I would bet on it).

I believe that you should get what you pay for.
No dlc, should equal No dlc.
And if anyone has a problem with that, then how's
about you trade me your orange weapon for nothing.
Do you see the similarities.

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Originally Posted by Littleweasel

as i have said a few times already why should people that did not pay for the dlc be allowed to do the same stuff the people that did pay for it? the only thing they are not doing as i have said before is the 45min missions that you have to do to be able to call down the arkfalls.

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They cant. Non DLC owners cant use the new weapon rewards you get from arkbreaks.

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Originally Posted by Rincewind

I believe that you should get what you pay for.
No dlc, should equal No dlc.
And if anyone has a problem with that, then how's
about you trade me your orange weapon for nothing.
Do you see the similarities.

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Should a 5 dollar arkhunter get less content than a daredevil?

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Originally Posted by Shadow Andreas

I totally understand weasel....the problem will then be having enough people to actually beat the WM. I have the DLC and I place batteries whenever there is a need for one....but as I said before, I'm sure there are DLC owners that hold their batteries for as long as they can so they don't have to buy them. A few times I have placed more than one battery with a group of people standing around....and I'm sure some of them were DLC owners (I don't know this for sure to be honest....but I would bet on it).

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i actually really liked this part of TalynOne's comment:

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Originally Posted by TalynOne

if they don't have the DLC they can participate in the fight but can't earn script/xp/weapons etc.. until they do.

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then at least it would be fair to all the people that did buy the dlc

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Originally Posted by TalynOne

There's already an incentive to own the DLC if you do a Arkbreak and you don't own it then you can't equip any weapons you earn.

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You can't buy the batteries either because they aren't available on the vendors. Nor do you get them in the daily/weekly gift box, as far as I can tell from personal experience.

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Some do Arkbreakers just for the keys/xp so maybe a further step would be that if they don't have the DLC they can participate in the fight but can't earn script/xp/weapons etc.. until they do.

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And if this were so, why would they go inside at all?

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Originally Posted by Littleweasel

i totally disagree with this because if you buy the dlc you have already paid for the right to enter the interiors, if you did not buy the dlc you never paid for the right to enter them so you should not be allowed to. as i have said a few times already why should people that did not pay for the dlc be allowed to do the same stuff the people that did pay for it? the only thing they are not doing as i have said before is the 45min missions that you have to do to be able to call down the arkfalls.

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What he is saying is that non dlc owners should have to pay a fee to enter the ark. 10ķ scrip should be about right.

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Originally Posted by Rincewind

I believe that you should get what you pay for.
No dlc, should equal No dlc.
And if anyone has a problem with that, then how's
about you trade me your orange weapon for nothing.
Do you see the similarities.

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i agree with you

I can c something like that being good. I've put down a number of batteries and couldn't get in, or got inside and it's all but over.I don't think that the loot farmers should have a free ride, I paid, and don't even get to open my own loot boxes if I don't get bumped before the end.I wish there was a way to choose who can come into the break that I paid for[it would b all pass holders].And I hate to say this since I do love my surge bolter, but I can't get a good score because I play like one should, now u have what is becoming a great number of people useing them in the breaks and no one can get a good score but them and I think it makes the break go faster.I was told that the non pass people can't get or use the new weapons, I wonder if this is true, don't seem like it.

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Originally Posted by vizibledog

They cant. Non DLC owners cant use the new weapon rewards you get from arkbreaks.

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big deal they can't use the weapons but they still get them and can sell them.

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Some do Arkbreakers just for the keys/xp so maybe a further step would be that if they don't have the DLC they can participate in the fight but can't earn script/xp/weapons etc.. until they do.
And if this were so, why would they go inside at all?

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they would go in to Cause MORE Grief. that's what griefers do. which is why
non paid folk should NOT be able to enter. they could help with the fight outside though.
I'm fine with that.

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Originally Posted by Skullsuku

I can c something like that being good. I've put down a number of batteries and couldn't get in, or got inside and it's all but over.I don't think that the loot farmers should have a free ride, I paid, and don't even get to open my own loot boxes if I don't get bumped before the end.I wish there was a way to choose who can come into the break that I paid for[it would b all pass holders].And I hate to say this since I do love my surge bolter, but I can't get a good score because I play like one should, now u have what is becoming a great number of people useing them in the breaks and no one can get a good score but them and I think it makes the break go faster.I was told that the non pass people can't get or use the new weapons, I wonder if this is true, don't seem like it.

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they can get the weapons, just can not use them unless they buy the dlc. but they can still sell them.

Well it all comes down to the same thing loot farmers get more that a free ride.

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Originally Posted by SSlarg

they would go in to Cause MORE Grief. that's what griefers do. which is why
non paid folk should NOT be able to enter. they could help with the fight outside though.
I'm fine with that.

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Please explain as to how you arrive at the conclusion that only non-DLC holders are griefers?

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Originally Posted by Littleweasel

big deal they can't use the weapons but they still get them and can sell them.

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So they cant do the same stuff as people who paid for it as you claimed.

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Originally Posted by Deunan

What makes you assume that the people don't have the DLC? The demographic that are completely clueless or don't care about protocol for taking the Warmaster down is not exclusively composed of non-DLC holders and the demographic that can competently participate and contribute in taking him down aren't exclusively composed of DLC holders either. You're only shooting yourself in the foot by advocating this kind of short sighted change.

The game suffers from lack of popularity and a constantly waning player population. While the population cyclically upticks around DLC releases and occasional special events, returning players are already jaded and easily lose interest leaving the game soon after. Some were so upset with the grenade changes they are already gone again. When the player population wanes again and you can't get a decent sized team together that's capable of taking the Warmaster down because there aren't enough DLC2 owners around you're going to end up regretting the change (assuming you don't become one of the players that leaves the game as well).

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^^^Agreed^^^

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Originally Posted by Calysia

Please explain as to how you arrive at the conclusion that only non-DLC holders are griefers?

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well if I paid for the content (which I did) I am there to complete it and get the Loot

folks that Cannot get the loot and if they removed the exp, keys, etc. they would have naught to do

except griefing. trust me I worked for an MMO for 14 years and saw more griefers in a year then most ever meet.

I am in no way saying "Paid dlc folks don't grief" because that would be false

But I am sure the Majority of the griefers bought the digital version for 5 bucks

and are 8-13 years old and again have naught to do but cause trouble.

I'll be up front about this:
I do NOT have the DLC (yet).
I HAVE done a Major Ark Break already.
And I do have to say just being able to participate for Exp/Scrip/Scrap is worthwhile. HOWEVER, as a Non-DLC player, I did learn something: ALL WEAPONS found, picked up, rewarded, ect, in the Ark Break will be RED (as you cannot equip) UNTIL you buy the DLC. I learned this the hard way, earning a Volge Thunderer pistol in my first Ark Break and (painfully) discovering I can't use it, nor the TACC rifle, nor the double-barrel shotgun I earned after failing the Warmaster fight. Got EGO, but also a bunch of weapons I can't use. This is, in my opinion, a bit of a low-blow method of getting me to buy the DLC. Was gonna get it anyways, but now I have to in order to use weapons earned from the Warmaster.

Just goes to show that Non-DLC players in the Ark Breaks are basically there as free labor till they shell out. Enjoy the noobs that are trying to help while ya can guys. lol

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Originally Posted by SSlarg

and are 8-13 years old and again have naught to do but cause trouble.

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I think that pretty much sums it up.

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Originally Posted by Calysia

I think that pretty much sums it up.

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The only way to get away from the people grieving....is to not play an open sandbox MMO.....they will ALWAYS be around otherwise. (Unfortunately)

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Originally Posted by omikias

This is, in my opinion, a bit of a low-blow method of getting me to buy the DLC. Was gonna get it anyways, but now I have to in order to use weapons earned from the Warmaster.

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No one is forcing you to use the weapons. I don't own DLC2 and I'm not sure I'll bother. The guns are better in some ways than the core game and DLC1 weapons but worse in others. Ultimately it doesn't matter to me because the content of the game, other than the Warmaster, is so easy now that the differences are trivial and meaningless from a practical point of view. I just use them for salvage or sell them to vendors.

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Originally Posted by Shadow Andreas

The only way to get away from the people grieving....is to not play an open sandbox MMO.....they will ALWAYS be around otherwise. (Unfortunately)

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They're in every MMO regardless of the format. There will always be the 8 to 12 year olds and the so called adults acting like 12 year olds.

Completely disagree.
The last thing you want to do is gate off the player base in sections.

In fact, Trion should go back to DLC1 and open the Arenas up for everyone when they make it co-op (or is it co-op now? lol). With the restriction being that they can't use the weapons from the Thorn rep.

Never ever split the player base up. It just kills an MMO.
That's why I hate MMOs with factions. It just cuts the player base in two, effecting cutting social aspects, grouping options and just the fun of the game by the same amount.

That's why I also hate it when servers are a restriction to players. It just cuts down the players even more.
Sure a game could have 5 million players, but if it's split between two factions and 30 servers, it doesn't sound as big a number now does it?

The more I think the more I wonder why we all bother pouring out effort into our opinions, if the biggest player base concerns are often put to the side.

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Originally Posted by hardy83

Completely disagree.
The last thing you want to do is gate off the player base in sections.

In fact, Trion should go back to DLC1 and open the Arenas up for everyone when they make it co-op (or is it co-op now? lol). With the restriction being that they can't use the weapons from the Thorn rep.

Never ever split the player base up. It just kills an MMO.
That's why I hate MMOs with factions. It just cuts the player base in two, effecting cutting social aspects, grouping options and just the fun of the game by the same amount.

That's why I also hate it when servers are a restriction to players. It just cuts down the players even more.
Sure a game could have 5 million players, but if it's split between two factions and 30 servers, it doesn't sound as big a number now does it?

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well in order for trion to be able to keep the game running they need money, they make the money by selling the dlc, toon skins, vehicle skins, and bits. if a person is on the free ride and not buying any of those things why should they get the same things as people that are buying those thing to help keep the game running?
as i have said in a previous post people should get what they pay for, meaning if they don't pay for the dlc they should not be able to play any part of the dlc.

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Originally Posted by jackdaws_1999

Im afraid I disagree with this idea as well, but for differing reasons. Both me and my fiancee have the season pass, before anyone complains lol

I believe that the arkbreaks should have reserved places for dlc owners, if there are not enough people in that instance (24 max) the spare places should be meeted out to the non-dlc people. I also think anyone in a group with dlc owners should be treated as though they had the dlc for as long as they are in the group.

I also feel that people who invest an ark battery should be guaranteed a place in the first instance of the arkbreak, followed by dlcers, followed by those who turned up first etc.

Since they spawn multiple instances if there are more than 24 at the arkbreak, they should also allow non dlcers to make up the numbers there as well. However I feel that instead of a long waiting screen for those waiting to enter, it should be like all other co-op and shadow war waiting lists, you apply, go about your business, and when an instance has been filled, they are told to ready up and join.

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Of all the ideas I have seen I like this best. I would just add that Season Pass holders go in before the regular DLCers. Then you ONLY get non-DLC people if it is necessary to make up the numbers. That is maximum value for those who pay.

You can stand on principle and say no-pay-no-play but sometimes the numbers just aren't there and so it is the DLC people who do not get to play the content they paid for.

This is by far the most elegant solution. Kudos to you, jackdaws. Trion, take note!

FYI, I do not yet have DLC2 because I am on PS3. When I can buy it I will. I did not get the Season Pass because I could not see any advantage over buying the DLCs one at a time. Make it worth something -- like preferred entrance to arkbreaker -- and I still might buy it in spite of having DLC1.

Oh, and for groups, there should be an "All or none" setting. If "on" it says take our whole group or none. Then the whole group only goes if everyone makes the cut. Otherwise you could still have non-DLC people beating out DLC people for slots. But maybe also give those grouped with DLCers preference over non-DLCers NOT grouped with a DLCer.

Ok, that was confusing but it's not really that complex. Just a preference hierarchy for entrance based on simple conditions.

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Originally Posted by GridSufer

The more I think the more I wonder why we all bother pouring out effort into our opinions, if the biggest player base concerns are often put to the side.

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After the first shotgun nerf, the thundershock and firestorm nerf, the red scope take away, and lets not forget the 1.05 shotgun mag buff, It was very clear to me that we can indeed say pretty much whatever we want within the forum guidelines but this is more a place for us to vent or talk among ourselves rather than have any real impact or affect on the game in any way.
I have learned from them that this is their game and they (whoever "they" are) are not interested in any large way about the opinions of such a small percentage of their player base.
We do not represent in any way most of the people who buy or play this game. We are the few nerdy enough to want to talk about it ad nauseum.
the vast (I'm talkin VAST here) majority of players will never score over one million points with the warmaster yet we have a lot on these forums who do on a regular basis.
The biggest part of the bell curve that is the real player base is what Trion is attempting to cater to. We do not represent them. They do not take the game as seriously as much of us do. 95% ( yes I did just pull that number out of my arse but I think it's close enough) of them will never see these forums much less comment on the game.
However Trion keeps tabs on the great unwashed group that is it's real player base, this ain't it.

I think before the instance is locked, if a DLC owner shows up and tries to enter they should be able to replace a non-DLC owner. I don't at all mind that people who have not purchased the DLC can participate in the instances, but I don't think it's fair that they can take a paid player's spot.

Obviously this should only be allowed before the instance is locked because it would be even more unfair if a non-DLC player who had participated in the fight and contributed heavily was suddenly pulled during the fight. That would be a complete crock.

I also agree that if a player was part of a group led by a player who owns the DLC they should be exempt from the replacement rule because if groups start getting broken up then what's the point?

@Bonehead: Good points well made

... who is writing this code? a herd of wild hamsters (lol)

Actually its a pack of wild Corgis.

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Originally Posted by Bonehead

After the first shotgun nerf, the thundershock and firestorm nerf, the red scope take away, and lets not forget the 1.05 shotgun mag buff, It was very clear to me that we can indeed say pretty much whatever we want within the forum guidelines but this is more a place for us to vent or talk among ourselves rather than have any real impact or affect on the game in any way.
I have learned from them that this is their game and they (whoever "they" are) are not interested in any large way about the opinions of such a small percentage of their player base.
We do not represent in any way most of the people who buy or play this game. We are the few nerdy enough to want to talk about it ad nauseum.
the vast (I'm talkin VAST here) majority of players will never score over one million points with the warmaster yet we have a lot on these forums who do on a regular basis.
The biggest part of the bell curve that is the real player base is what Trion is attempting to cater to. We do not represent them. They do not take the game as seriously as much of us do. 95% ( yes I did just pull that number out of my arse but I think it's close enough) of them will never see these forums much less comment on the game.
However Trion keeps tabs on the great unwashed group that is it's real player base, this ain't it.

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I never thought about this before but I suppose you're quite right. I have the feeling that somewhere in a room is a group of people with spreadsheets that say how much money is made off of each player on average and what behaviors/mechanics drive that revenue. Then they yank the dev team's leash and say, "Keep the wheel spinning, the ones who care enough to articulate their complaints are the ones who are already invested enough that they aren't going anywhere."

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Originally Posted by Mudturtle Jones

... who is writing this code? a herd of wild hamsters (lol)

Actually its a pack of wild Corgis.

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Hey! I get it!