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No, we are one of the few Armies in this world that not only are you not supposed to follow an order to kill civilians, it is unlawful to do so. Most other countries, if given the order to kill an innocent, the act of defiance to that order is insubordination and punishable under their military's code (like our Uniform Code of Military Justice). However, the US remains one of the very few military forces where the act of following a "BAD" order is illegal.Quote:
Originally Posted by play
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit501
I have one solution for morons like you... We should give you a free air-dump with a parachute over somewhere like Kandahar with 1 gun of your choice, with a return airline ticket only usable after 14 days and see how long you make it, then be the judge of your record and see if it was possible for you to return home in anything but a pine box without having to engage any civilians. Unless you've been there, you may want to zip it, because you have no idea and can have no idea. Wikileaks? Yes, that was the culturing of one video that demonstrates how soldiers deal with the fact they may have to take innocent life either by necessity or mistake. At any rate, when this is done, you have two choices -- Go flipping crazy and cost your country a medical bill for the rest of your life, or dehumanize the life you've taken. So congratulations on support WikiLeaks, you have likely just prevented your country from allowing the dehumanization options and cost your country another 10-20 billion in medical costs. Great job. It would seem the only way to make folks like you productive, is to ship you off to country's we really hate, and let you sit and fester in their society for a while and deconstruct their civilization for us. But then I realize, you likely wouldn't make it past customs.
This is called an assumption. My relating my clan to being vets is just that. We are vets, combat vets, and yes, we're damn glad we're not serving any more. There is a problem with your logic. Somehow it would seem that you believe that combat is in any way like this game. It is not -- else I wouldn't be playing. You see, in combat, there is no respawn which means once a formation is run on you, and we do rush and wipe your team out, there is no regrouping, there is no second try, there is no SCORE BOARD. Either you live, or you die, and living being the only variable. But assuming that we believe that somehow someone will read the topic and believe for a moment this GAME is anywhere like COMBAT is the epitome of lunacy and ignorance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit501
So you're saying that in real combat there are no respawns? Thanks for clearing that up! I did not know that. I'm not saying you're a jerk, but I've know enough vets that thought they could do and say whatever they wanted to someone because of that fact. Hell just last month my neighbor who runs a bar down the street from me was telling me about a guy he had to throw out because he was groping women and yelling at people for no reason, and when he told the guy to settle down the guy responded by telling him to "go **** yourself I'm a vet." Long story short the cops had to get called because the guy wouldn't leave and when he went to court for it the judge dismissed it because he was a vet. Don't tell me that's not BS! Go watch the collateral murder video and get off your high horse by thinking your special.
Also, I don't ever remember reading anywhere in this post where anyone was comparing real combat to this game. I was just commenting on how one of the first things in your post was "we're army vets so we do what we do best." Hey my man, because of wiki leaks we all know what you guys do best!
Tis the season to be jolly!
Falalalala lalalLala
Deck the halls with bails of holly!
By far, this is the most intelligent thing that I've read in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanteYoda
It's the internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by N3gativeCr33p
edit. misquoted that sorry.
Let me school you on a little fact.......
The only difference between a Soldier and an average American like me is pretty simple.
I have never been involved in military action, I have no military training whatsoever and i have no desire to.
But this does not make me inferior to you in any way. I simply see no need in being involved in a government military group that loves sticking their noses in affairs that pertain nothing to us. I do not blame the Armed Services for this however, as you simply do what you are told.
However, if my Nation, is ever under direct attack, and we have a foreign Army marching down our streets, then I, my brothers, family members and friends, will load up our Hunting Rifles and meet the threat. No special weapons, no special training. We will simply fight till the death.
So, in no way does the whole "I'm in the Military" thing impress me.
To all you Vets out there, I do respect you, just stop with all the "I'm Special" crap.
I'd honor a Civilian laying down his life just as much, if not more, then a Military Man.
My goodness, this is the best piece of positive reinforcement I've read on this forum. It makes me feel like I can turn anything around to my advantage. I applaud YOU, Sir :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdaws_1999
Thank you! A civilian laying down his life for his country carries a lot more weight to me than a soldier that does the same thing. When it comes down to it, a soldier is doing it because he is getting paid to do it. I've know enough idiots that have joined the army because they had lose standards and they wanted a legal reason to do dumb s*** in someone else's country.
Sure it could have been a vet that was drunk and out of control (that's why there is something called the MP's while on active duty), I would still like to think that we vets are human after-all and still need an eraser. But, yes, I can pick straws to stereo-type too. I can also show you civilians that fake being vets just to give vets a bad name. However, I don't accuse you of honor thieving or even compare you to it. You can play the low ball all you want. I will continue to be the better person in this stalemate, so you go on with your accusations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit501
I've quoted it directly and the reply I made that you tried to take out of context. Keep playing these games and you will be playing with yourself. Now, read carefully:
Astonishingly, it has now been quoted THREE times. In my reply that you replied to chastising me for comparing the game to real battle. Again after defending myself for replying to that ridiculous comment, and once again with you declaring that no such comment has ever existed. Get it together or start typing to yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by play
If you were in the military, if any kind you would know perfectly well where that comes from. Movement. It is a well known fact that American football formations and tactics was fathered by the US Armed Forces. Of course, no guns allowed on the field. Power I, Echelon, Pincers, flanks, pincer flanks, iron wedge -- these are all military movement tactics that make it into many play books in American Football. The US Army Football team is known for "Take and hold". A few units are known for "Take and holds" when talking about battle of course (101st Hooah!)
So, you can type wikileaks and now you're a damned expert in the subject you think? Hardly. If you've never been there in a situation where you don't know if they have a RPG or a camera and make a choice to take that person out after proper evaluation, you can't watch some half-baked video and say, "HOW AWFUL!". This is sensationalism -- also known as MIND CONTROL. The reason that video was classified was to protect the soldier's identities that would have to live with that choice for the rest of their lives and to prevent any "hate" from their own country from befalling them from making a perfectly LOGICAL judgment call.
But do tell me, where is the outrage of cops shooting people when they are holding things in their hands (like cell phones) when they say "FREEZE!"? Of course, if you can say with 100% certainty, while never being in that situation, that you would have gone against all training, all advice, all logic in a hostile war zone for a bleeding heart while compromising the safety of other soldiers whose lives depend on your every decision, then you should be the ones we put on the front lines to weed out that moron gene from the gene pool.
Going on the premise that the only time I've ever hinted for a moment that I was above someone in any way was in context to real combat and having to make life or death decisions in that combat in defense of being called a baby killer, I'm going to infer that either you believe you are a combat expert while self-admittedly never seen it, or you are just speaking to see yourself type. So before I go a hair further, tell me; which is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaricane
Funny thing that is, fighting to the death. Once foreign militia is marching down your street, you really have no other choice in the matter because this pretty much means all the so-called professionals you seem to detest so, would have been exhausted and you are left with one reality -- die fighting or die groveling for your life. I can't imagine any sane person wanting to die groveling, so you really have no choice in the matter where those whom have volunteered -- they had a choice, and choose service to the defense of their country to make damn certain YOU NEVER have to experience that reality. What's so funny about that is, they don't even know your name and yet they have signed a piece of paper stating they will bleed for your rights -- including your right to openly mock them. While it sounds self-absorbed, I can't imagine a more selfless calling. But, what ever, more power to you.
If it is any consolation, when the stuff hits the fan, and enemy troops are waltzing down our streets, I'll trust a veteran (hell, even an Air Force Vet with zero weapon's training armed with a Swiss Army pocket knife) covering my six long before some country guy with a 308 thinking his box of 40 rounds of ammo can take out an entire platoon because he did it once playing Call of Duty. You know why? I've seen what happens in battle, as soon as brain matter or the smell of vaporized blood is entered into any battlefield equation, you get someone that is ready to bail out.
With any veteran with honorable discharges, I know I have a great chance of having that guy at my back to our dying breaths, and I also know, that while we drown on our own bodily fluids from being out-gunned, we can smile at each other moments away from meeting our makers and think, "we gave'em hell". With a civilian, being one whose had to train them in foreign countries and fight beside them -- I've had them bail out so many times my head still spins today at the cowardice displayed.
But don't get me wrong, while the only thing I believe vets are special at is being efficient at killing and maybe even working well under the most stressful environments known to man, this specialty doesn't demand any respect at all, except maybe in the way you respect a live power transmission cable or an electrical storm.
What does, in my opinion demand respect, is the fact that person served your country at less than minimum wage obligated, if necessary, to make the ultimate sacrifice, voluntarily. When a soldier dies, he gets boxed up, sent home, and a modest funeral service is held. Hell most soldiers that are buried today don't even make the news. They're "grouped" in some dumb *** statistic on a news brief with "... and three more soldiers die today ..." without even a reason as to why. A cop, politician, agent, martial, or judge (civilian) dies in the line of duty, there comes everything but the shin-dig: Marches, memorial services, vigils, rallies, and the list goes on.
You see, its not a big deal when a soldier dies, because that was part of the deal -- it is expected of him. While I find this sentiment abhorrent, it is nevertheless the consensus of the American populace. Until you can make a commitment as dire as this, I can't imagine you could ever understand how serious it could be taken.
Crucially, the oath we take never expires, as we are honor-bound for life to live by that oath. For the rest of our lives we are sworn to uphold and defend the constitution of this country from all enemies, foreign and domestic -- the rest doesn't apply, naturally, we don't have officers appointed over us any longer ;)
But allow me to get this off my chest. If anyone thinks they are better than someone else, it is that one ****** that makes 10x more than a solider and thinks that he is too fking important to shed blood or life for his country until forced upon him.
One more thing...
There has never been a civilian, to-date that has laid down his life for his country. If you can name one... Keep reading.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaricane
But I do see what you're saying, those enlisting are expendable and of no value to you. This is good to know. If you live in the US, I just hope you keep this in mind when our politicians figure out a way to sale the idea of "Homeland Security" in a palatable manner to the military that allows them to betray their oath's to fire on US Citizens. Perhaps then, you will know exactly what it is like to be seen as no, or little value. I'm also about to make a point to the next quote. It would be wise to pay attention.
I'm sorry, I'm laughing and trying to stop, truly, I shouldn't be laughing, but ... uncontrollable... The more I read what you typed the sillier it looked. It seems that somehow you believe that someone's life can be bought by a measly $900 per month. What could you possibly do with your money when you die? Have it buried with you? How can you be so naive to think for a fractional second that people sign up to die for money? Do you truely believe everyone or even most people signing up for military service is so stupid and short-sighted that they would say, "here take my life, now I want a paycheck for the next 4 years"? You can't be serious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit501
The money a soldier is paid is a mere stipend to keep up his health and well-being in preparation for the main event, much like you keep your livestock healthy and happy up until the slaughter. If we sent soldiers to the front lines malnourished, ill-trained, and low morale, the world would be speaking German or Japanese right now.
But out of sheer curiosity, I wonder, when was the last time a civilian soldier gave his life for his country? I can't think of any names, but if you can name one, I'm all ears. I'll be honest, I imagine I'll get that answer as soon as someone discovers how to catch a sky hook, flight-line tape, or smoke shifters.