Defiance's Third DLC: The 7th Legion

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Originally Posted by Atticus Batman

Bacon isn't stupid! Anyway, more Dlc is good, but you actually think they'll update this thread even if we stayed on topic? They have said for quite awhile that when they have info they want us to see, they will ALWAYS create a new thread and NOT post in another thread created by them earlier on the same topic. But then I guess you weren't here for most of the important (in their eyes) stuff since you have only been around since November, so maybe you just didn't know that.

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No Bacon as a food is not stupid, chatting about it on a forum is kinda...silly?

And the rest i had no clue about seems pretty unproductive but its Trion i guess so up to them..

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Originally Posted by crasher

If they'd taken discussion of the game seriously, interacted, and participated with the player base in any demonstrable way in the beginning stages of several of the fiascoes that plank owners here as well as players who have been paying attention tried to point out, much of the following can have convincing cases easily made for them:

1.) If they had spent 20% the time working to fix the disconnects that they spent jekkin a grenade system that we kept asking them to stop jekking with or return to original:
2.) If they had spent 20% the time working to fix the bustedazz-chat system that they spent jekkin a grenade system that we kept asking them to stop jekking with or return to original:
3.) If they had spent 20% the time working to fix the bugs that they spent jekkin a grenade system that we kept asking them to stop jekking with or return to original:

They'd (possibly) have fixed much of what is driving people away from the game in numbers that caused the price to plummet, made us happy, and still had 39% of the time left over to create content that was asked for and/or recommended in dozens of threads by players here who know more about the game and have orders of magnitude more time and money invested in the game than The Devs do,

AND:

We (probably) wouldn't be living with stuff that is STILL driving people away,

AND:

We (probably) wouldn't be sitting here putting up with a lot of shtako that we're now told took so much time to jekk up in the first go-round and has too much time/money poured down the rat-hole to go back now.

And they'd still have 1% of the time left over to screw around with TROVE in their spare time.

:) :) :)

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I haven't been on the forum in weeks for the same reason I've stopped playing. I just don't care anymore. Tired of devs that seem completely, willfully tone-deaf to the community. Frustrated by stuff that should have been fixed months ago. Grenades and chevrons just kind of did me in, and like a couple of other players I know who feel the same way, I found myself just mindlessly grinding the game when I had the sudden realization that I was doing so out of numb habit, without an ounce of joy to no longer be had.

This isn't quite a 'this game sucks and I have quit but for some reason will keep posting' rambles. I popped on because a clan brother invited me into a party while I was playing Skyrim, and told me about the next DLC. Curious and absolutely convinced that it was a joke, I had to come and see for myself. It baffles me - I'm unsure how anyone up the chain can be so unaware as to how nonsensical and unwanted this can seem.

Thanks to years of martial arts, when I hear 'Bushido' in a video game context, I think of two things : well-crafted, center-focus sword mechanics, and a finely-tuned pvp system. Do both of those concepts make you think of Defiance? In a positive sense? Without those, it seems to me that anything with 'Bushido' thrown into the mix is simply a desperate clutch for tiresome DEWD SAMORIZE KEWL appeal. But what do I know. I'm just a casual who had hope but has now largely given up.

I see that it releases in February. Same time as Titanfall. Guess we'll see how that goes.

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Originally Posted by Lillith Valerian

I haven't been on the forum in weeks for the same reason I've stopped playing. I just don't care anymore. Tired of devs that seem completely, willfully tone-deaf to the community. Frustrated by stuff that should have been fixed months ago. Grenades and chevrons just kind of did me in, and like a couple of other players I know who feel the same way, I found myself just mindlessly grinding the game when I had the sudden realization that I was doing so out of numb habit, without an ounce of joy to no longer be had.

This isn't quite a 'this game sucks and I have quit but for some reason will keep posting' rambles. I popped on because a clan brother invited me into a party while I was playing Skyrim, and told me about the next DLC. Curious and absolutely convinced that it was a joke, I had to come and see for myself. It baffles me - I'm unsure how anyone up the chain can be so unaware as to how nonsensical and unwanted this can seem.

Thanks to years of martial arts, when I hear 'Bushido' in a video game context, I think of two things : well-crafted, center-focus sword mechanics, and a finely-tuned pvp system. Do both of those concepts make you think of Defiance? In a positive sense? Without those, it seems to me that anything with 'Bushido' thrown into the mix is simply a desperate clutch for tiresome DEWD SAMORIZE KEWL appeal. But what do I know. I'm just a casual who had hope but has now largely given up.

I see that it releases in February. Same time as Titanfall. Guess we'll see how that goes.

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Yeah very few of us daredevils left. I completely get how nonsensical and unwanted this DLC is. My voice has gone horse and my caring has vanished when it comes to pointing out the shortsightedness of the devs. It seems with each DLC more day one players leave and more new people replace a fraction of them. Sadly I'm stuck with it until I either get Xbox one or get all of my DLCs for that season pass I foolishly paid for back in May.

To the changing of the guard.

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Originally Posted by crasher

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...3d086db0_1.jpg

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I laughed hard at that!!

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Originally Posted by crasher

1.) Somebody pulled this storyline and combination of memes out of their butt, and they were probably sleep deprived or suffering from egg-nog overdose at the time.
2.) Canadian Bushido coincidentally lead by a guy who just happens to have a Japanese name but may/may-not actually be Japanese with/without Japanese military background in the absence of an actual 'Japan', since the fall of nations....
3.) Following a very intricate 'Bushido Code' which is a life-long philosophy very intricate in detail known to few in the general population....
4.) Which has been marginalized by society in general....
5.) Yet they found enough Bushido Masters to train a seriously non-select group of people who couldn't possibly automatically be Bushido-material from random crowds of vagrants and hangers-on in settlements on their way across Canada, while presumably losing few enough 'trained Bushido adherents' through combat on the journey while training new random followers while on that march to swell their ranks...
6.) In that same discipline that takes devout adherents a lifetime to master....
7.) And exhumed/followed by a completely different culture in a totally different culture...
8.) But something as simple as a Christmas wreath/Menorah/etc over a midwinter solstice time frame is too complicated to even hint at because what? It was too complicated? The tradition followed by Euro-centric civilization since just after the European based neanderthals started winter solstice/yule celebration was lost in 100 years, but we still drive cars and wear pants?

"Originally Posted by Defiance Blog When the world fell apart, one group kept their courage. Guided by the teachings of the Code of Bushido, the soldiers of the 7th Legion marched across Canada gathering survivors as they went. From one outpost to another they marched until finally they found a city which did not fall: Manhattan. There, they made their stand against the darkness, and Commander Yoshida Hiro called an end to their long journey. Now they have come to Paradise. What dread news could this herald?"

9.) If their journey ended on the East Coast in Manhattan, what are they doing in San Francisco?
9.a) Paradise was just a random destination? Because nobody from E-Rep/Manhattan has shown the slightest interest in looking for V.B. in all this time.
10.) How did they manage to settle business in Manhattan so quickly and hustle out to Paradise so quickly if they were in pursuit of Von Bach or his goals?
11.) If the E-Rep is already here, why are the Bushido Canadians here, too?
12.) If they're here in opposition to Von Bach's goals, how were they so comfortable in Manhattan with the E-REP there for the time they were there settled in (Commander Yoshida Hiro called an end to their long journey.)
13.) If they were a force to be reconned with in Manhattan, Then surely they were a part of E-REP or an opponent to E-Rep, and either of those two negates them from suddenly being a surprise discovery at this point to us as E-Rep affiliated Arkhunters.

And TRION still hasn't explained the Volge (as discussed by my friends at KTAM), or fixed the bugs in the log-in or staying on-line for our PS3/XboX brothers and sisters so they can play the game they paid good money in good faith for?

Should I go on, or would somebody like to pick up the thread for me?

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Yeah man I got you. You make some good points but regardless of what actually makes it to code, I don't think the brainstorming for this was a half-baked as the blog post makes it seem, here's why:

Arkfall happened after 7 years of the Pale Wars. That's 7 years of global military conflicts going off with what amounts to all of humanity banding together against all the Votans. If we keep that in mind, it is entirely plausible for a legion from the Japanese military to have shipped over to conduct or support operation on the North American continent. And for all we know, the Commander's family immigrated to Canada or America generations ago and simply maintained the use of Japanese first names.

But assuming the 7th was originally from Japan, after Arkfall their plans obviously changed and their ability to go home as it were was clearly compromised. The post states that the legion is guided by the principles of Bushido which isn't a very strange thing to say.

Bushidō, literally "the way of the warrior", is a Japanese word for the way of the samurai life, loosely analogous to the concept of chivalry. Bushido, a modern term rather than a historical one, originates from the samurai moral values, most commonly stressing some combination of frugality, loyalty, martial arts mastery, and honor unto death. Born from Neo-Confucianism during times of peace in Tokugawa Japan and following Confucian texts, Bushido was also influenced by Shinto and Zen Buddhism, allowing the violent existence of the samurai to be tempered by wisdom and serenity. - Yes this was from Wikipedia.

I don't know about you, but a group of soldiers abiding by such a code in a world torn apart by violence and war seems like a very human thing to do. Even more so in a world that has just been flooded with the combined cultures and influences of multiple alien races. Bushidō may have originated centuries ago but it is still practiced today. Not only that but often enough a strong enough leader imparts their own values upon those they lead. Before Arkfall, practicing Bushidō may have been something the Commander did by himself as a personal choice to help make him a better soldier and a better commander. After Arkfall, his code became the Legion's code because they had nothing to answer to otherwise.

I am actually really intrigued by the potential of the character of Commander Yoshida Hiro. I envision him being a man who realizes he is leading fighting men and women in a world where all the rules have changed or been abandoned. Instead of going rogue he lays down a hard set of rules that his people must abide by, to cling to heritage and be the example of law and order amidst the chaos. He leads them across Canada, fighting when it needs to be done, helping when they can. Along the way they lose some, and others pick up the banners of the fallen.

If you read the Canada section on the map there's a lot going on up there. The shielded Arkfall in Edmonton, the Canadian desert... a lot of things that I personally want to learn more about, perhaps the 7th Legion has seen them? I'm sure we won't get as much as we want, but at least tracing their path through Canada and pinning them in Manhattan gives us a narrative perspective to start exploring these other parts of the world.

People have read quite a bit into OverloadUT's response, and TBH I do expect some medieval Japanese-inspired power armor, perhaps some different looking charge blades. It wouldn't be the worst way to introduce weapon skills/perks for charge blades.

I care, but yes bikes would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Digital Cin

I agree, it will be interesting to see which way they take it.. Though I get the feeling too many people are reading too much into it being a Samurai and swords dlc.
After all, during WW2, the Japanese army followed aspects the Bushido code, and you didn't get many Fully armoured Samurai running about those battlefields. After all it was more of a code of morals very close to the code of chivalry found in Europe. And at its heart the code typified seven virtues of what a Samurai should strive for in his every day living as a person, along with the 4 tenets.
I have a feeling that its will be more towards modern Bushido, found in the Modern Japanese army and to some degree in the Army of WW2, with Commander Yoshida Hiro modelling himself as a Samurai or Shogun rather then medieval styled Samurai running around paradise.

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Japan doesnt have a modern army.(MacArthur being one of the influences to help make sure of that with regards to their constitution following WW2)

They have a Self Defense Force and they do not follow Bushido.

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Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

They have a Self Defense Force and they do not follow Bushido.

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You can't tell anyone to follow Bushido, that is a personal decision they have to make, accept & follow themselves. Kendo, Kenjutsu, Aikido, & Judo were some of the combat arts Samurai used. But that does not now make any of those practitioners Samurai. Same as Bushido, a follower of a Bushido does not mean Samurai, but unfortunately since Samurai upheld this code to it's highest honor it became more recognizably prominent with samurai and combat. When all Bushido is, is various teachings pulled from various schools/religions/philosophies.

INTRODUCTION

Bushido, literally translated "Way of the Warrior," developed in Japan between the Heian and Tokugawa Ages (9th-12th century). It was a code and way of life for Samurai, a class of warriors similar to the medieval knights of Europe. It was influenced by Zen and Confucianism, two different schools of thought of those periods. Bushido is not unlike the chivalry and codes of the European knights. "It puts emphasis on loyalty, self sacrifice, justice, sense of shame, refined manners, purity, modesty, frugality, martial spirit, honor and affection" (Nippon Steel Human Resources Development Co., Ltd. 329).

ORIGINS AND INFLUENCES

Bushido comes out of Buddhism, Zen, Confucianism, and Shintoism. The combination of these schools of thought and religions has formed the code of warrior values known as Bushido.

From Buddhism, Bushido gets its relationship to danger and death. The samurai do not fear death because they believe as Buddhism teaches, after death one will be reincarnated and may live another life here on earth. The samurai are warriors from the time they become samurai until their death; they have no fear of danger. Through Zen, a school of Buddhism one can reach the ultimate "Absolute." Zen meditation teaches one to focus and reach a level of thought words cannot describe. Zen teaches one to "know thyself" and do not to limit yourself. Samurai used this as a tool to drive out fear, unsteadiness and ultimately mistakes. These things could get him killed.


Shintoism, another Japanese doctrine, gives Bushido its loyalty and patriotism. Shintoism includes ancestor-worship which makes the Imperial family the fountain-head of the whole nation. It awards the emperor a god-like reverence. He is the embodiment of Heaven on earth. With such loyalty, the samurai pledge themselves to the emperor and their daimyo or feudal landlords, higher ranking samurai. Shintoism also provides the backbone for patriotism to their country, Japan. They believe the land is not merely there for their needs, "it is the sacred abode to the gods, the spirits of their forefathers . . ." (Nitobe, 14). The land is cared for, protected and nurtured through an intense patriotism.

Confucianism gives Bushido its beliefs in relationships with the human world, their environment and family. Confucianism's stress on the five moral relations between master and servant, father and son, husband and wife, older and younger brother, and friend and friend, are what the samurai follow. However, the samurai disagreed strongly with many of the writings of Confucius. They believed that man should not sit and read books all day, nor shall he write poems all day, for an intellectual specialist was considered to be a machine. Instead, Bushido believes man and the universe were made to be alike in both the spirit and ethics.


Along with these virtues, Bushido also holds justice, benevolence, love, sincerity, honesty, and self-control in utmost respect. Justice is one of the main factors in the code of the samurai. Crooked ways and unjust actions are thought to be lowly and inhumane. Love and benevolence were supreme virtues and princely acts. Samurai followed a specific etiquette in every day life as well as in war. Sincerity and honesty were as valued as their lives. Bushi no ichi-gon, or "the word of a samurai," transcends a pact of complete faithfulness and trust. With such pacts there was no need for a written pledge; it was thought beneath one's dignity. The samurai also needed self-control and stoicism to be fully honored. He showed no sign of pain or joy. He endured all within--no groans, no crying. He held a calmness of behavior and composure of the mind neither of which should be bothered by passion of any kind. He was a true and complete warrior.

These factors which make up Bushido were few and simple. Though simple, Bushido created a way of life that was to nourish a nation through its most troubling times, through civil wars, despair and uncertainty. "The wholesome unsophisticated nature of our warrior ancestors derived ample food for their spirit from a sheaf of commonplace and fragmentary teachings, gleaned as it were on the highways and byways of ancient thought, and, stimulated by the demands of the age formed from these gleanings a new and unique way of life" (Nitobe, 20).

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Originally Posted by VicousBlood

You can't tell anyone to follow Bushido, that is a personal decision that has to be made themselves. Kendo, Kenjutsu, Aikido, & Judo were some of the combat arts Samurai used. But that does not now make any of those practitioners Samurai. Same as Bushido, a follower of a Bushido does not mean Samurai, but unfortunately since Samurai upheld this code to it's highest honor it became more recognizably prominent with samurai and combat. When all Bushido is, is various teachings pulled from various schools/religions/philosophies.


(The non relevant, laughably semantic satiation worthy part snipped)

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:rolleyes:




Cin made this statement:

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Originally Posted by Digital Cin

I have a feeling that its will be more towards modern Bushido, found in the Modern Japanese army

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My response, directed to him, was in refute to that.

Word choices of practiced, found, adherently pervasive, followed by individual or group in consensus, used as ear wax removal, or otherwise wasting time to absurdly and erroneously pedantically refute such has nearly close to zero relevance.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Sanguinesun

:rolleyes:

Cin made this statement:

My response, directed to him, was in refute to that.

Word choices of practiced, found, adherently pervasive, followed by individual or group in consensus, used as ear wax removal, or otherwise wasting time to absurdly and erroneously pedantically refute has nearly close to zero relevance.:rolleyes:

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Yeah my last post wasn't pointed at anyone, but I got tired of of seeing all "Bushido = Samurai" posts along the whole thread. I just used your last quote to show why our "military" does not follow Bushido.