The ongoing Warmaster battle: Back VS Arm

This thread is for NA PC users.Sorry Console, EU people, you must leave now. :p

So until about a month ago PC/NA Warmaster runs were all arm runs. Nilxain developed the method and that was the template for the PC. Win or lose there was little discussion on strategy. PS3 users on the other hand developed the back method.About a month ago there was a push to start using the PS3 method on PC/NA. Ever since this time, Warmaster runs have been a total clusterF***. Split DPS is killing the runs.People refusing to switch to the majority vote is killing WM runs left and right. Even when people have the best intentions and are willing to switch over when they see a split group the time lost is usually fatal.

I'm not sure if we could discuss the problem here and decide a winner but something needs to change.People yelling at each other in /zone after a loss doesn't seem to be helping. Anyone have thoughts on a solution to the war between monkey body parts?

This thread will just bring the argument here instead of zone chat etc. Either method works. It's comes down to teamwork... either you have it or you don't. There is no winning or losing side. Calling it a battle is just a bad idea.

On the bright side though, I just pulled a charge blade out of a tier 4... they do exist!

Targeting the WM's Back, imo, is the better way to go. You don't have to run completely around him to get to the correct side either unless he's facing you and if thats the case you're better off running away since he's likely targeting you.

I've been using Sucker Punch with my Overcharge build and it definitely helps me catch up to everyone's damage count as I lag all the time. That being said, the only complete WM runs I've been on with a PUG has always targeted the WM's Back.

You guys should change it up again and start going for the left arm.

I don't care WTF we shoot, as long as we all work together... it's a sad situation, very sad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by QipQip

This thread is for NA PC users.Sorry Console, EU people, you must leave now. :p

So until about a month ago PC/NA Warmaster runs were all arm runs. Nilxain developed the method and that was the template for the PC. Win or lose there was little discussion on strategy. PS3 users on the other hand developed the back method.About a month ago there was a push to start using the PS3 method on PC/NA. Ever since this time, Warmaster runs have been a total clusterF***. Split DPS is killing the runs.People refusing to switch to the majority vote is killing WM runs left and right. Even when people have the best intentions and are willing to switch over when they see a split group the time lost is usually fatal.

I'm not sure if we could discuss the problem here and decide a winner but something needs to change.People yelling at each other in /zone after a loss doesn't seem to be helping. Anyone have thoughts on a solution to the war between monkey body parts?

---

I think we've been in a few PUG kill groups together. Often there are still enough people targeting the same target (usually the back) to kill the Warmaster but it has been ridiculously close to the end of the timer in many of them.

I don't think you're going to find consensus among the player community. Some players are convinced that the back is the way to go. I go with what the majority decides, but the right arm is really the most egalitarian way to go in terms of what players need in their loadout. It's infinitely more forgiving about perk loadout because the advantage gained is largely based simply on the exponentially greater critical damage any player with any perk loadout can inflict on the arm when he is knocked off the wall and goes into his laser phase afterwards. You can barely do any damage to the back during the laser phase.

The back advantage is highly reliant on perk loadout. You have to have Sucker Punch which many lower EGO rating players won't have, and you have to have a fair amount of damage mitigation perks for the burn phase which again many lower EGO rating players aren't going to have. Even with a protection spike up a lot of them will get downed if they're in the blast radius of a second bomb.

I know some players will talk about how it is possible to have the perks at a low EGO rating but that completely ignores the reality that players are going to invest perk points based on the way they want to play the majority of the game not just one event. It's completely unrealistic to think a player who is not vested in that build outside the Warmaster Chamber is going to pay for two perk resets every time they do a Major Arbreak. There is no advantage to shooting the back for those players and lost opportunity to do damage for them if the group is not targeting the right arm.

Ultimately the only consensus we can hope for is that the group must target the same piece of armor and that to go against the majority is harmful and shouldn't be done regardless of what the player's personal preference is. If I can do it, and more often than not I am doing it, then so can everyone else. To do otherwise is just selfish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deunan

egalitarian

---

Someone else is bound to need this besides me.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/egalitarian

Pretty much what the others have said. It does no good to argue which is better as they both have certain advantages, what needs to happen is for players to swallow their pride and essentially give into what the majority is doing (yeah your mom always said not to give into peer pressure but we won't tell ;)). If people refuse to work together, you will almost never beat him.

As the saying goes, we need to fight together or die alone (well no one is dying but you get the idea).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deunan

I think we've been in a few PUG kill groups together. Often there are still enough people targeting the same target (usually the back) to kill the Warmaster but it has been ridiculously close to the end of the timer in many of them.

I don't think you're going to find consensus among the player community. Some players are convinced that the back is the way to go. I go with what the majority decides, but the right arm is really the most egalitarian way to go in terms of what players need in their loadout. It's infinitely more forgiving about perk loadout because the advantage gained is largely based simply on the exponentially greater critical damage any player with any perk loadout can inflict on the arm when he is knocked off the wall and goes into his laser phase afterwards. You can barely do any damage to the back during the laser phase.

The back advantage is highly reliant on perk loadout. You have to have Sucker Punch which many lower EGO rating players won't have, and you have to have a fair amount of damage mitigation perks for the burn phase which again many lower EGO rating players aren't going to have. Even with a protection spike up a lot of them will get downed if they're in the blast radius of a second bomb.

I know some players will talk about how it is possible to have the perks at a low EGO rating but that completely ignores the reality that players are going to invest perk points based on the way they want to play the majority of the game not just one event. It's completely unrealistic to think a player who is not vested in that build outside the Warmaster Chamber is going to pay for two perk resets every time they do a Major Arbreak. There is no advantage to shooting the back for those players and lost opportunity to do damage for them if the group is not targeting the right arm.

Ultimately the only consensus we can hope for is that the group must target the same piece of armor and that to go against the majority is harmful and shouldn't be done regardless of what the player's personal preference is. If I can do it, and more often than not I am doing it, then so can everyone else. To do otherwise is just selfish.

---

People using effective perks against the warmaster is not at unrealistic like you claim most people already do use effective perks. Both the arm and back benefit from effective perks thought the back does more which is better its not the only reason. The other huge reason why the back is more efficient is because of DPS increase of more people benefiting from the spikes. This means no one is running to get ammo less people dying and more DPS. Their are other benefits to shooting the back also like it being a bigger target and its only one piece of armor vs two in the arms.

Regarding Volge weapons if people were shooting the back it would lead to three posobilities which are all beneficial.
1 People will stop using them and use something more effective.
2 They wil help break the armor faster which will increase the groups DPS.
3 They will continue shooting the right arm to get a crit while he hangs and will not blind the rest of the players and less people miss.

About the perks again, its realistic that people can respec their points and want to use effective perks. The difference between perks in shooting the back over the arm is 2 that's not infinetly more forgiving especially when those two perks can also benefit from shooting the arm and actually a lot people including myself have them equiped while shooting the right arm. The only difference you benefit from substantially more while shooting the back because your always getting the bonus damage from sucker punch shooting the back vs the arm which you only benefit from it if you have the right angle. If a new player is not using effective perks it its true there's no advatantage for that person but only that specific person not the group as a whole. It is still better to shoot the back because of the people who are using effective perks. If someone does not use effective perks it does not mean more damage to the arm or back based on that alone, but it does mean more damage for the rest of the group who is using effective perk and shooting the back. I don't see how people not using effective perks that are really easy to obtain is an argument against the back since their are effective perks for the arm as well.

I'll explain again how a low ego player can unlock both cloak and over charge which will give you access to the most usefull perks for anything in this game. First you have to enter the codes in the defiance website which will unlock the scavenger perk. Then just put a point into cloak the accept.then put a cloak into thick sinned then overcharge.

However it is better to just go with what the majority of people are shooting. Though I beleive shooting the back is better I don't think trying to switch is not worth the problem that is causing people to shoot different parts. The arm works fine enough that we don't need to switch. Getting people to try to switch is going to cause problems and more warmaster fails.

blah blah blah..shoot heavy assault rifles at the good part of the crystal. not the upper crit spot while he is hanging. its just a distraction. have one of your buddies dedicate to shooting a particle ultimag with toxic. the whole time. doesnt matter where he shoots the monkey. left arm, right arm, back. as long as you get numbers. it will multiply the damage in 3 stages. have 2 ppl use ultimags for maximum "green" effect. when crystal pops pull out wolf or high crit weapon. NO TYPOONS. NO TYPHOONS. a blue wolf with or without crit and a heavy can put up 2 mil+ damage. if you dont have a good heavy. top notch vendor has one of the best weapons in the game. frontier battle rifle. its nasty. trust me. its what i used until i bought a heavy better than that. if everyone used a heavy (except for the ultimaggers) and a wolf (even a blue one...heck even a green or white..lol.. seriously) WARMASTER WOULD DIE EVERY TIME..EVERY TIME..without fail..thats how you kill a monkey...we can go in 6 or 7 deep using that method even with all the dummies using typhoons and still kill him.. thats how its done.. doesnt need anymore discussion..