So You've Wiped Out Shield Progression...Wow, Why? Because Grenades?

Ok so now you've gone and wiped out Shield progression entirely?

You've made it so all Orange shields of a type share a common Cap, Delay, and Recharge Percentage.

In doing this you have removed ALL elements of choice in shields.

You have undone what was actually a simple, elegant system.

Here let me explain, since you all obviously do not understand what your predecessors programmed:

Let me use Resparks as an Example...

A Respark typically has 40% Recharge and a 3 second delay.

A benefit of HP Regen, Reload, Melee, etc. can be added to this as can a nano resistance - but not a zero cost - we'll get to that.

The Capacity of the Shield would go up based on EGO.

So HP Regen Resparks (assuming identical EGO) worked like this:

A 0% HP Regen Shield* would have a 2.4 Second Delay + No Nano Resistance
A 25% HP Regen Shield would have a 2.7 Second delay + Nano Resistance
A 50% HP Regen Shield would have a 3 Second delay + Nano Resistance
A 100% HP Regen Shield would have a 3 Second delay + No Nano Resistance

*(Using the V as an example in this progression)

So there's a solid choice - CHOOSE your shield and with it comes benefits and detriments to performance.

So now you've made it so that:

ALL Orange Resparks have a 2.4 Delay

What does this do to progression?

Well now the choice between HP Regen Resparks becomes:

A 0% HP Regen Shield would have a 2.4 Second delay + No Nano Resistance
A 25% HP Regen Shield would have a 2.4 Second delay + Nano Resistance
A 50% HP Regen Shield would have a 2.4 Second delay + Nano Resistance
A 100% HP Regen Shield would have a 2.4 Second delay + No Nano Resistance

Making the choice Much, Much, easier and making the "lesser" Regen shields into garbage.

But it gets better...by choosing the LOWEST delay for ALL Orange Resparks you have also made the Respark V completely 100% Useless as it gets no benefit over other ANY Orange Resparks in its EGO.

Oh and if you think only Resparks got this treatment...LOL....nope - ALL shields have had this happen - ALL Orange Rebels now have 2.4 Second Delay, ALL Orange Hurricanes now have a 90% recharge - they've chosen one stat from each class of shield and made it into the Orange Stat...without regard for the way the game was designed. This is just too much.

So Bravo once again Trion, for 100% Not Understanding this game.

Two threads are not better than one.

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Originally Posted by thejx4

Two threads are not better than one.

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this one is better.

I assume what happens is that when "glitch" happened with the shields this was their fix.

Reading these threads just makes me want to not play defiance at all

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Originally Posted by thejx4

Two threads are not better than one.

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One thread was about a specific shield - since this affects ALL shields - this thread is appropriate.

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Originally Posted by Elastik Spastik

Reading these threads just makes me want to not play defiance at all

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ditto. at least not for a couple weeks.

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Originally Posted by Elastik Spastik

Reading these threads just makes me want to not play defiance at all

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I was just thinking the same thing myself... and I know this much for sure, playing today is totally out of the question.

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Originally Posted by N3gativeCr33p

I was just thinking the same thing myself... and I know this much for sure, playing today is totally out of the question.

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To be honest im done with this game unless they change it to how it used to be but they make these changes to try and maximize profit when in reality they have killed it and will make hardly anything. They would have made more if they had listened to the players because we would still be here and still be playing. The player base are the ultimate game testers but seems the big wigs know better. Im completely frustrated with what could have been a game in a league of its own, but instead is just another washed money making scheme with no regard to its customers and its failed. I may check back in a few months if the servers havent died by then but yeah im pretty much ran out of patience. Plus i now have new bigger and better games to use my game money on. I wish defiance could have been part of it but alas it is not to be. In my opinion I think they just want this to die a painful death and be done with it.

It really wouldnt surprise me if they dont do a season 2 pass. How many people are actuially going to buy it now.

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Originally Posted by Elastik Spastik

To be honest im done with this game unless they change it to how it used to be but they make these changes to try and maximize profit when in reality they have killed it and will make hardly anything. They would have made more if they had listened to the players because we would still be here and still be playing. The player base are the ultimate game testers but seems the big wigs know better. Im completely frustrated with what could have been a game in a league of its own, but instead is just another washed money making scheme with no regard to its customers and its failed. I may check back in a few months if the servers havent died by then but yeah im pretty much ran out of patience. Plus i now have new bigger and better games to use my game money on. I wish defiance could have been part of it but alas it is not to be. In my opinion I think they just want this to die a painful death and be done with it.

It really wouldnt surprise me if they dont do a season 2 pass. How many people are actuially going to buy it now.

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Well, hey... if you ever get into console gaming, look me up. I could always use an Elastik Spastik on my friends list... :)

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Originally Posted by N3gativeCr33p

Well, hey... if you ever get into console gaming, look me up. :)

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i was until mid last year, then converted to pc and always will be. I even bought this game twice, once for xbox when it came out then for pc when i converted. I obviously didnt realise what a shambles it would turn into. I'll be back from time to time whenever i can be bothered to play defiance, and thats a big if.

TBH they seem to hate "simple and elegant" with a passion.

As always, good to see you Spazz.

LOL you'll never guess what I pulled from a Dark Matter Arkfall

A Respark V!

OMG - being trolled by the devs isn't funny.

Ok it kinda is.

Does anyone from Trion see the problem yet? Is this an ignore it and maybe it will go away deal?

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Originally Posted by Chump Norris

Does anyone from Trion see the problem yet? Is this an ignore it and maybe it will go away deal?

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they actually pretty much said that this is intended, it was a fix for shields that were not properly scaling and some legendary ones were worse than epic, so this was their"fix"

So this is still a problem - any word on any kind of fix?

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Originally Posted by Overtkill21

So this is still a problem - any word on any kind of fix?

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I'll bet it'll have something to do with "cutting" and "pasting".

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Originally Posted by Overtkill21

So this is still a problem - any word on any kind of fix?

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Totally on point here Overt, why use my respark V at all? I've only ever gotten two orange shields and now it appears I should use the Respark Blockade (so I don't have to dodge all those vehicles anymore).

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Originally Posted by Z0mb1E

Totally on point here Overt, why use my respark V at all? I've only ever gotten two orange shields and now it appears I should use the Respark Blockade (so I don't have to dodge all those vehicles anymore).

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If you buy the line Trion is shoveling then your Respark V and ALL V shields were "typos" that existed in the game since last year.

However, I don't believe this is the case, in fact I know this is NOT the case.

The true fact would be that shield progression, not unlike grenade mechanics, are beyond the ability of the current developers to comprehend and as such, we are, once again, the beneficiaries of an amateur's attempts to improve a system built by professionals.

Another perfect example of why everyone is pissed off and everything is "toxic" around here. Instead of admitting a mistake and add it to the list to get fixed they completely lie about it.

So you can't even min/max in a game that now forces you to min/max. Wow ... that's just ...wow...

http://forums.watchuseek.com/attachm...1310644617.jpg

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Originally Posted by Overtkill21

The true fact would be that shield progression, not unlike grenade mechanics, are beyond the ability of the current developers to comprehend and as such, we are, once again, the beneficiaries of an amateur's attempts to improve a system built by professionals.

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Hate to say it but I think you hit the nail on the head there my friend.

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/...sdc004964.jpeg

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Originally Posted by Bonehead

Hate to say it but I think you hit the nail on the head there my friend.

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Yes and now we have this...

http://forums.defiance.com/attachmen...5&d=1398202418

On topic, yes, because grenades.

to be honest with ya im not too fussed about this atall.. i can see why some of you guys are though. ive always been a respark user so the change is welcome to me as i like to run about with my respark regen v ark at 2.4 delay lol.... did you consider they altered the system to help deal with the buff'd enemies? obviously its a lie that it was a 'fix' for an unintended bug but it could be they done it to give the players a chance. opinions? oh yeah btw ive also got a respark v ego 5000 that ill never use again because of this so dont think my opinion is biased =)

I think this change is best summed up:

Grenades were originally a very ingenious system - that utilized a timer to recharge our grenades - then our perks and weapon rolls could reduce this recharge time -however- you had to trade off certain other perks and weapon rolls in order to fulfill a role as a "Grenadier".

This was changed to a convoluted, amateur-hour system that we have in place today. Rolls were made obsolete. Perks were made obsolete. Only now, months later do they begin to see how failed the grenade system truly is and add "Grenade Ammo" (something they were so vehemently against when they implemented the horrid change, btw).


Now allow me to rework it a bit:

Shields were originally a very ingenious system - that utilized a tradeoff of key stats (Delay, Recharge Percentage, & Capacity) - then a subclass could be added to that shield -however- you had to trade off certain other key stats in order to gain that subclass and have your shield fulfill a role as a grenade recharger - "Grenadier", fire rate booster - "Berserker", hp regenerator "Regenerator", etc.

This was changed to a convoluted, amateur-hour system that we have in place today. Entire classes of shields were made obsolete. Others were made far too overpowered.

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Originally Posted by Overtkill21

I think this change is best summed up:

Grenades were originally a very ingenious system - that utilized a timer to recharge our grenades - then our perks and weapon rolls could reduce this recharge time -however- you had to trade off certain other perks and weapon rolls in order to fulfill a role as a "Grenadier".

This was changed to a convoluted, amateur-hour system that we have in place today. Rolls were made obsolete. Perks were made obsolete. Only now, months later do they begin to see how failed the grenade system truly is and add "Grenade Ammo" (something they were so vehemently against when they implemented the horrid change, btw).


Now allow me to rework it a bit:

Shields were originally a very ingenious system - that utilized a tradeoff of key stats (Delay, Recharge Percentage, & Capacity) - then a subclass could be added to that shield -however- you had to trade off certain other key stats in order to gain that subclass and have your shield fulfill a role as a grenade recharger - "Grenadier", fire rate booster - "Berserker", hp regenerator "Regenerator", etc.

This was changed to a convoluted, amateur-hour system that we have in place today. Entire classes of shields were made obsolete. Others were made far too overpowered.

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I miss my 55Z cluster 'nade and 55Z flash 'nade... And now shield varieties are screwed up? Trion, stop trying to even out everything that is meant to have variety!

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Originally Posted by B_Draco

I miss my 55Z cluster 'nade and 55Z flash 'nade... And now shield varieties are screwed up? Trion, stop trying to even out everything that is meant to have variety!

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Well you know their motto:

If It Ain't Broke - Just Give Us a Patch.

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Originally Posted by Bonehead

On topic, yes, because grenades.

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Because the Silly Rabbit loves Trixx



...;)


(sorry had to change it or I would have got another weeks ban)

Ok, this is off topic but i need to say it anyway, my shields are still glitching at WM , they don`t regen after the estimated time, they don`t regen when using heal stims or while cloaking.
The main reason i die against the big monkey is because when i`m hit with is bombs i have ZERO health and shields.

Sorry for the off topic.

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Originally Posted by drackiller

Ok, this is off topic but i need to say it anyway, my shields are still glitching at WM , they don`t regen after the estimated time, they don`t regen when using heal stims or while cloaking.
The main reason i die against the big monkey is because when i`m hit with is bombs i have ZERO health and shields.

Sorry for the off topic.

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+1 this is happening for me too.
I have also noticed sometimes the Respark Regenerator shields stop giving their bonus (it stops giving your HP regen) which can only be fix'd by unequiping and reequiping the regenerator shield. This happens everywhere/anywhere and I am unable to figure out a pattern as to what causes it to bug out.

What I'd like to see happen with shields is base the complete stat set off of rarity. This will piss off the shield hoarders, but it would make for a better balance imo.

example: Respark Regen
Common = All versions: Respark Regen II D
Uncommon = All versions: Respark Regen III D
Rare = All versions: Respark Regen IV DX
Epic = All versions: Respark Regen IV EX
Legendary = All versions: Respark Regen V Ark

The higher rarity should always have better stats across the board, not just the delay. The bonuses/cap/recharge should all be better based off of rarity. Trick has the right idea in his explanation in the other post. Now it just needs implemented correctly.

For all the vendors out there that want to get mad at the idea of Ark shields everywhere, get over it! We have plenty of weapon variations to use for making virtual money.

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Originally Posted by Critical Errors

What I'd like to see happen with shields is base the complete stat set off of rarity. This will piss off the shield hoarders, but it would make for a better balance imo.

example: Respark Regen
Common = All versions: Respark Regen II D
Uncommon = All versions: Respark Regen III D
Rare = All versions: Respark Regen IV DX
Epic = All versions: Respark Regen IV EX
Legendary = All versions: Respark Regen V Ark

The higher rarity should always have better stats across the board, not just the delay. The bonuses/cap/recharge should all be better based off of rarity. Trick has the right idea in his explanation in the other post. Now it just needs implemented correctly.

For all the vendors out there that want to get mad at the idea of Ark shields everywhere, get over it! We have plenty of weapon variations to use for making virtual money.

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I for one would not be happy if this was implemented, would just mean yet ANOTHER kick in the nuts for those of us who love collecting shields of the respark variety. Hey guys, lets turn your OJ Respark Collection into purples and blues.

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Originally Posted by Olaf

I for one would not be happy if this was implemented, would just mean yet ANOTHER kick in the nuts for those of us who love collecting shields of the respark variety. Hey guys, lets turn your OJ Respark Collection into purples and blues.

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You misunderstood my intent. I simply meant that all legendary shields would change into the top tier version. Your respark collection would be better off with the changes I proposed.

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Originally Posted by Critical Errors

You misunderstood my intent. I simply meant that all legendary shields would change into the top tier version. Your respark collection would be better off with the changes I proposed.

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Sorry Im abit slow today m8 lol. Just getting pee'd off with TrickDempsey changing things that dont need changing or that have been around and a part of the game since before he was here. All the other things they have done I have dealt with (grenades/whole inventory being made useless/saws being nerf which i can understand/my syphon collection being made into a costly bmg collection and many other things), but I think changing shields/weapon stats further especially after spending so much arkforge to get them to where they are now will be the final nail in the coffin 4 me.

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Originally Posted by Critical Errors

You misunderstood my intent. I simply meant that all legendary shields would change into the top tier version. Your respark collection would be better off with the changes I proposed.

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You mean sort of like grenades are now - just the overarching categories with the color rarity indicating overall power/effectiveness. I certainly wouldn't mind that. The change to grenades made it a simple matter to see what was better (i.e. blue flashbang > white flashbang). Truth be told, doing that with shields would make it a much better system and eliminate the supposed problem that Trick talked about in his post.

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Originally Posted by Olaf

Sorry Im abit slow today m8 lol. Just getting pee'd off with TrickDempsey changing things that dont need changing or that have been around and a part of the game since before he was here. All the other things they have done I have dealt with (grenades/whole inventory being made useless/saws being nerf which i can understand/my syphon collection being made into a costly bmg collection and many other things), but I think changing shields/weapon stats further especially after spending so much arkforge to get them to where they are now will be the final nail in the coffin 4 me.

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I too have hated most of the changes initially. I've actually come to accept grenades now that the loot function has been sorted out. Still a bug here or there, but overall, the grenade system is decent now.

I've always thought shields should be better balanced. It was always a downer getting a legendary shield with equal or lesser stats then an epic. Take for instance the Rearm or Bullseye shields. They had absolutely no difference in stats for an epic or legendary. Or how often do legendary shields pop up with III D suffixes? Those are actually worse than the epic version IV EX.
With my proposed change, the legendary would be legendary.

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Originally Posted by BJWyler

You mean sort of like grenades are now - just the overarching categories with the color rarity indicating overall power/effectiveness. I certainly wouldn't mind that. The change to grenades made it a simple matter to see what was better (i.e. blue flashbang > white flashbang). Truth be told, doing that with shields would make it a much better system and eliminate the supposed problem that Trick talked about in his post.

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Yep! That's exactly how I meant it!

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Originally Posted by Critical Errors

I too have hated most of the changes initially. I've actually come to accept grenades now that the loot function has been sorted out. Still a bug here or there, but overall, the grenade system is decent now.

I've always thought shields should be better balanced. It was always a downer getting a legendary shield with equal or lesser stats then an epic. Take for instance the Rearm or Bullseye shields. They had absolutely no difference in stats for an epic or legendary. Or how often do legendary shields pop up with III D suffixes? Those are actually worse than the epic version IV EX.
With my proposed change, the legendary would be legendary.

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grenades ive come to accept but it was a low blow as spent alot of time and effort into finding that unicorn fragnova std55z with highest min/max i ever saw. as for your proposal are you suggesting that anyone with a respark regenerator legendary e.g. 25/50/75% it would be converted into respark regenerator v ark's? i wouldnt be cool with that either and that would be again the final nail in the coffin for me and im sure alot of others who spent a year working towards a goal of acquiring that respark regenerator v ark.

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Originally Posted by Olaf

grenades ive come to accept but it was a low blow as spent alot of time and effort into finding that unicorn fragnova std55z with highest min/max i ever saw. as for your proposal are you suggesting that anyone with a respark regenerator legendary e.g. 25/50/75% it would be converted into respark regenerator v ark's? i wouldnt be cool with that either and that would be again the final nail in the coffin for me and im sure alot of others who spent a year working towards a goal of acquiring that respark regenerator v ark.

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Why wouldn't that be cool? It would still be the best Respark Regen shield out there. Now however, it would be much simpler for those who can't or don't want to min/max. They won't have to look at stats - they could just see a Purple Repark Regen and an Orange Repark Regen and know the orange gives them better stats across the board.

The only comparison and tactical thought that would need to be give would be comparing two shield of the same rarity (such as Basic Respark and Respark Regen) and decide which trade-offs in stats are more appealing. Obviously the Regen has the health bonus, the the basic would have a better state or different bonus (such as Nano resist). Otherwise, they would still be the best shields out there in their categories and still be a reward for the time spent getting them.

I have no issue with the way shields have been treated so far. The real underlying cause was that in the old system you rarely got to see a shield's effect put to use. Doing PvE content and my shield got broken? My first reaction was a heal stim or death happened. I started using an Ironclad V due to the fact that most shield effects are only marginally useful at best. The only thing that stands out about shields are capacity, regen rate and restart time. Now that health pools have been boosted, shield effects stand a chance to be more useful if the bonuses themselves are looked at and aren't so difficult to get hold of.


Regen only helps once your shield comes back.
Rearm is a whopping 1%. (That means with the highest ammo reserve weapon, you get 5 rounds. 5.)
Reloader has potential to be useful but messes with Pumped Up.
Bullseye is REALLY rare and I only use during WM.
Berserker's fire rate is nice but 5-10% of an already low number is still a low number.


At over 5400 EGO, there are still shield stats I've never personally come across. It would be nice to have a bonus shuffle of some sort with the effects that come on our shields, I'd guess the same way you can reroll weapon mastery. The base version of the shield (D, DX, EX, Ark) would be the determining factor as to which tier of the bonus is received.