Printable View
This is a great thread Puddy thanks for making it and getting us some answers.
Have you even compared an orange Respark IV and Respark V? What a fun fulfilling chase to upgrade to a V from a IV...Please compare the two shields and let us know what you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickDempsey
LOL - I wrote that whole big thing and this makes the point pretty darn good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chump Norris
They still won't get it though - 100% guaranteed.
Yep we practically screamed ourselves horse on alpha trying to warn everybody. Let me enjoy the Colbert gif some more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deunan
Non no no you got it all wrong....Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonehead
Buy One for the price of three and get the second completely free!
I miss eteaw, batman atticus, and that other useful guy, forgot his name. Did all the vets quit? Or do they all like the patch? Only vets i still see around are overkill and bonehead. This is a call to arms. Let trion hear our voices roar!
Dude I'm surprised you are so surprised. They effectively did the same thing to grenades on what they did to shields. I've lost count on how many times in the last year they have De-valued our inventories...Quote:
Originally Posted by Overtkill21
*sarcasm* But no its the traders and the chase driving characters away... *pfft* right.
Yo dude, whadda about me - I'm a veteran and after finally turning the burn down over the last few days of hope, just got the rage burning all over again today!:pQuote:
Originally Posted by r2nddan
And I am not a trader. I am (or was) just a casual everyday player who just liked shooting things in the face and pretty much vendored every item he got in the last 6 months (except OJs, all of which are pretty much useless to me anyway because they don't have the stats I want to use) because all of my favorite weapons were white or blue Ark code or early/episode mission rewards, and they are now rendered pretty much useless because of this patch - even if I wanted to grind out the next year to continually upgrade them to at least keep them in line with my character EGO.
At the very least, we should be able to not only upgrade the EGO level of our weapons but upgrade their rarity and add specific bonus rolls to them. That would actually start to make this crap progression system worth half the effort.
Meh, don't let it get to you. Batman and Etaew are more widely known because of his name, and his website.*edit due to autocorrect*Quote:
Originally Posted by BJWyler
Very interesting thread. Very good points made for the players' side. Still not so sure on the game development side.
Don't get much time to play lately so not sure how new patch fairs, but Sunday I got to play and 2 of us took 30 minutes to do Bolenas. (Ain't nobody got time for that.) 3310 EGO other was about 2800. Threat level too high, extracted quite a bit. Most definitely needs tweaking.
Not sure I understand the need for more currency. I know I'll never see any of those core things. Casual player for sure. Would prefer doing things like Deunan suggested, using Ark Salvage, instead of Arkforge.
What I got out of DLC5, season pass on PS3 and PC, was the ability to pick up grenade, stim, and spike charges, that should have been released along with DLC2.
About Arkforge:
The problem with this statement, Kiwi, is not the Bit Store's ArkForge caches. The problem with this statement is ArkForge becomes of LESS value to the endgame player. Cores the same way. First off, once you get to max EGO, you then only need X ArkForge to upgrade weapons to you current EGO. This variable GETS SMALLER over time as you finish upgrading your inventory. Once all the weapons you are going to upgrade are at your current EGO, then you have the smaller pool of weapons you want a better Mastery bonus for. So, you start doing this. Eventually, all your favorite guns are at your EGO and with the best Mastery Bonus for your play style. Now, you have no reason for new Arkforge, except on the VERY rare chance of getting a better weapon than the one you have.Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Kiwibird
For it to be endgame currency, it has to have MORE value to the endgame player, than the one leveling up to the endgame. As of right now, Arkforge has equal value to the new player than the endgamer. In a short time (a month maybe two), it has an IMMENSELY higher value to the new player.
Now about Cores. They have very limited value as well to anyone, much less the endgamer. The endgamer has figured out which Synergies works for their play style. If none of those synergies are backpack synergies, they are unlikely to buy T5 mods from the vendor for those weapons they are going to keep. They may buy one or two, if their favorite Mod Synergy has bonuses pass the first two which they don't want. Additionally, as there is no randomization of the rolls other than the Mastery Roll, there is no point of purchasing more than one of each of the weapons, at most. (For example, I will never buy a shotgun, detonator, or rocket lancher, for example. I might buy the AR, but that's a low chance.)
Endgame currency is about getting something of value for playing the end game, for a long time and for continuing. This endgame reward is very limited in value.
I agree it would be nice to have that extra kick for owning the DLC, who doesn't like free stuff. On the other side, I accept that Trion is a corporation in business to turn a profit. They have to offer things that people will buy in order to keep the lights on. Since we're not being forced to buy it in order to stay competitive, I can't personally fault them for this. In other words, it doesn't cross the line for my definition either. I have outscored people twice my EGO rating using less than average to average gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by BJWyler
I don't see how the items being offered in the store will give a solid, unquestioning advantage to one player over another. I don't have a single weapon on my current character that is modded with anything purple. I have very low EGO gear, about half of my current EGO. With this character, I've outscored other players just as I said above. Just because a person has top EGO gear, modded with OJ mods, doesn't mean they *will* do better than another player without it. While it can give an advantage, it does not guarantee that it will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsort
That said, I do see that mathematically speaking, it does offer higher tier mods with the purchase of the DLC. By that definition, I can see the position you and others share about it being "pay to win". Since a person has to actually hit something with that modded weapon, in my opinion it doesn't fit that description.
It would be like Trion adding a Bits/DLC-only car that was faster than any other in the game. A person could buy it with cash and have a speed advantage over any other player that does not own said car. The owner of the car still has to be able to drive it. If the car flew (literally) over obstacles and could take a straight line to events, then I'd see it differently.
Still just my opinions, I want to be totally clear on this... lol
Wait, we did what??!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Bahamut3
http://blog.thecheaproute.com/img/ho...ng-400x599.jpg
I think this thread clearly shows the devs lack of understanding or caring or perhaps both. I can't imagine anyone reading this thread and the dev responses within and still having any faith that things will improve.
Agreed.i think i need to find a new game witch sucks because i was really starting to like this game time to uninstallQuote:
Originally Posted by DIS
And I have no problem with that either - in games that make the experience pleasant. In the original Guild Wars I spent a ton of money for stuff in their cash shop - for all four of my accounts, because the actual gameplay experience was worth the cost. Nothing in the store, however was crucial to remaining competitive and relevant in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Market
In all reality, offering a token amount of Arkforge per week is no different than the keys that are currently in the Daily/Weekly boxes and the ability to buy Lockboxes with Scrip and Salvage.
I am more than happy to continue to purchase outfits I like in the bit store (when I finally have money back in the wallet again), and wish they offered unique skins that could be applied to weapons as well. That is where they should be focusing their efforts on in the shop.
With this thread and "The Silly Rabbit from Trixx" inability to understand, and the greed.... wow I think "The Company" just might have shot themselves in both feet and in the head.
Well if the player is interested in beating the time trials high score, a faster car (even in the slightest) will grant him a potentially undefeatable advantage. Agreed, he still has to perform, but at the very least it's "pay to win more easily".Quote:
Originally Posted by Market
I do agree also that in Defiance the different mods/rolls etc make for a small difference (and yet... a little more mag + a little more dmg + a little more firerate really does add up). But since the last patch we've seen that Trion is making the diffrence bigger and bigger. A small dmg % increase on EGO5500+ weapons, for example, really does add up too.
Not so humorous. Jump to 1:29 for further insight and understanding in what's going on here and in B2P and F2P gaming industry in general:Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Bahamut3
http://youtu.be/oVSqhTCASHw
Now they now what it feels like to be a low EGO player in a TL10 environment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhide
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJWyler
Yup, and I hope they find it amusing cause I was the guy hiding outa range, but just inside the zone enough jacking the difficulty up on them.
LOL :p
Yeah I am aware... Downward spiral and all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deunan
*sigh*....
*sigh* multipost pain...
Mr TrickDempsey,
Would you kindly care to explain why EU players have to pay over $12 more for 500 bits less than NA players?
1:36:30 sounded so familiar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deunan
Ok, I'm just going to ignore all the stuff about traders cause it assumes they are all jerks who are looking to trick people.:oQuote:
Originally Posted by TrickDempsey
Actually on topic, you do realize you've had the unintended effect of causing the thing you say you were fixing. Now all Orange shields are just better, except Vs. You understand this makes no sense right? Now if you get an orange shield it rules, unless its the best kind, then its the worst possible orange.
I gotta believe that this is because you never compared IV and V shields before fixing the "typo". Listen to everyone responding. That was NOT a typo but obvious from experience intended. I never felt more like the original team that made the game left then watching people trying to explain this to you guys.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deunan
A video that should be watched at the next Trion/ Defiance Meeting for sure! Make sure to hit 1 hour 29 minutes in it cause It tells exactly what most people think about trying to Moniterize Teens, and "Whales".
When you put money before your artistic integrity and principles, then its time for you to close your doors.
After watching that video, it appears as though some people missed that "How to Minimize Backlash" seminar that they mentioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3gativeCr33p
Or they caught it, but it was too much work to care that much.
I thought that was rather poignant. I can't say I agreed with everything they were saying to the letter (the gaming industry is (and needs to be) a business first and foremost), but having a lot of customer service in my background, a lot of these companies certainly need to learn how to treat their playerbase better.Quote:
Originally Posted by N3gativeCr33p
You're missing the point. They aren't saying game developers shouldn't discuss or think about how to monetize their player base. They're talking about how it's reached a point where monetizing them becomes the overriding purpose to the point that it subverts game design and development so that objectively bad game design elements are introduced solely to further monetize big consumers of microtransactions. Those game design elements by nature are ones that treat the rest of the player base negatively and as irrelevant. That's part of John Bain's point when he talks about what has to happen to game design to make that business model work. They're saying that if you can't figure out how to monetize your players without doing that, you don't deserve their support and IMO they are absolutely correct in that regard.Quote:
Originally Posted by BJWyler
I'm going to largely ignore the fact that you stated several things that are flat-out wrong (the shield change exacerbates the scalping problem by making a very small subset of shields strictly better than the rest instead of all shields having pros and cons as it was previously), and instead focus on this statement:
For reference, I am one of those players still working on the story/pursuits, and am a very middle-of-the-road EGO of 2350-ish.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickDempsey
I really, really, really hate to use this word, but when considering the mechanics that you've implemented, I can't think of anything else to call it: hypocrisy. When an orange weapon or shield drops for me, it's almost always an eyerolling experience. I'd love to use them, but I'm never, ever going to have enough Arkforge under the current implementation to keep it near my level without dropping serious cash or avoiding the story/pursuits and mindlessly grinding. Not to mention most Oranges have some combination of a bad/nonexistent nano, bad rolls, or simply not being a good weapon/shield type.
So unless the Orange Tax gets removed once and for all, I'd be significantly happier to have a Blue drop than a comparable Orange.
I've come to a realization over the last couple weeks and, after a little studying, understand what is going on.
Grenades.
Shields.
Arkforge.
Oj.
Whatever....
The games design is to make aspects of the inventories OBSOLETE every few months or so. That way the chase can be started all over again. This has been the design since I started playing the game. I understand this was done with shotties shortly before I started playing.
SAWs were the go to gun. I saw them sell in game, on PS3, for over 1m scrip. Suddenly, we have SAWnerfgate. It surprised everyone, and The Company claim it was because of too many complaints of it being OP. So, now SAWs are worthless, or rather, not worth what they once were....
Seeing that that didn't do enough, they roll out new rolled weapons. Virtually making nearly every weapon before it obsolete. Sure, some were still bad ***, but lacked all the rolls. But, in essence, with a large portion of the player base, these new weapons were far superior. Take a look at the trade forums towards the end of the last year..."So and so trading "post-patch" weapons. No "pre-patch" need apply".
Once ppl were comfortable with the new weapon dynamic, they pissed off a slew of ppl with Grenadegate. Amazing though, how quickly ppl adapted to it. Sure, some quit. But, more stayed and learned the "new game". The major complaint was detonate times and the fact that we were leaving "nade mushrooms" all over the battlefield. Ppl adapted.
Arkforge isn't the "End Game" currency. Trick, himself is quoted as saying, "Arkforge will continue to provide additional benefits as we continue adding features to the game." This one quote alone defies any chance of it being "End Game". It will also NOT be obtained in great quantity unless purchased outright.
I can't say that I agree with the changes. The scaling is a joke, and doesn't "work as intended" in most situations. They continue to claim working on it. We'll see it fixed "soon". The fact that I dread seeing a barney at a daily contract tells me that the scaling is out of whack. The fact that I am scoring 5-10% my normal scores at sieges, tells me the game is askew.
I know that I will "learn to deal" with each change, as it comes down the pipe, because I can still find things in game I like to do. When those options are depleted, I'll turn the game off for a long while.
These changes, or ones similar, will happen. The Company has proven time and again that it has an agenda and it will follow it. Our opinions only matter when the game is unplayable for a large number. And, only minute fixes will be applied to address them, as shown with 1.501, 1.502, and 1.503.
Ultimately, there are only 2 choices.
How will you decide?
defiance end game = going from wide eyed when a legendary pops up to slant eyed wondering how crappy the rolls are on it.
I have to say I agree with you on alot of what you have said.Quote:
Originally Posted by rebtattoo
Now, myself I have spent almost 2000 arkforge on upgrading/rerolling my very favourite items (being a shield and a couple of guns). I can say right now TrickDempsey, if you decide that nerf's and certain weapon stats require changing from this point onwards then I will be quitting this game without a second thought as its completely out of order to provide this functionality (spend real money on tailoring your favourite items to your needs) and then a week later nerf the sh!t out of them.
I have been here since launch day and have had this happen to me a fair few times... grenades (spent ALOT of time and work to get my old Fragnova Std-55z, only for you to decide to change the games core mechanics rendering all that time and effort into a POS), all my weapons that i spent along time collecting/modding getting made into crap because you decide you want to change the roll/rarity/whatever system, my favourite saw i loved and played with daily getting nerfd into oblivion, my syphon collection being turned into a glorified bmg collection, i can go on...
Anyway thought I would stress to YOU TrickDempsey how I feel about this. BTW I do love the new DLC, yes things need to be adjusted properly (difficulty wise - not my god damn favourite items which I have spent time and money upgrading).
Trick, the best thing you could do, after showing that you are so out of touch, is implement an exit strategy for yourself and anyone else that doesn't believe in the game and the player base. The changes being implemented will not drive people to the bit store, they drive people away.
I was going to log in and play, but after reading this thread and your responses I can't be bothered to.
So many words, yet you have failed to address the problem that has been pointed out many times now: a legendary shield with a V suffix is strictly inferior to any other legendary shield of that same type, since it has the same stats, no nano resistance and no mod (and the same thing applies to epic V, uncommon III and common II).Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickDempsey
I find your assumption that in the old system some shields were overpowered and that the new system has fixed that is very questionable. Before, there was a balance between major stat, nano resistance, and mod level. Now the balance is only between nano resist and mod level. Nano resistance may be extremely useful in the right circumstance, but 1) it is too situational to be relied upon outside of PvP (except maybe in some expert coops, but I don't think anyone really bothers to optimize that) and 2) only a few people understand how resistances work, because the system is completely opaque. How is the average player supposed to know that an orange Respark IV has 80% resist, whereas a Respark Regen EX only has 20%? Especially when the system has never been officially explained, nor even announced in patch notes.
If you took a poll asking people to choose between an orange Respark Regenerator Ark and an orange Respark IV, I'm pretty sure that while the Regen one would get the majority of votes both before and after DLC5, even more people would go for it post-DLC 5. In effect, you have made some already powerful shields even more powerful, which seems contrary to your stated intent.
As a side note, I hope that this Typogate shows the benefits of being open about game mechanics, and telling the community how things are supposed to work. I understand that you have limited resources to work on the game, so having more eyes to look at whether things are working as intended can only help you. So please give us the EGO scaling formula, so you don't realize in a year that a typo made damage go up much more between 5000 and 5500 than between 4500 and 5000...
Which would explain why arkfall boss pinatas explode after 10 seconds of fire, and the Dark Matter monolith keels over in phase 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekrunner
That could be part of it, but I believe the biggest factor is simply that they do not scale properly right now. The tier 2 adds that spawn around them even at TL10 make me think that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrkul
Ok Kiwi tell me how Arkforge is a "endgame currency" when people fresh in the game can get it and it can be bought with money? That does not sound like "endgame currency" to me...it sounds like an excuse to make money off of players as Trion knows no one would buy it if it was made more available in game. Endgame currencies are supposed to be earned not bought with cash to get ahead. We are not asking for unreasonable amounts here...just enough to make it so we can get some of our favorite items leveled up in a reasonable time. Would not hurt Trion to out 25 in a daily and 50 in a weekly box...would not hurt to make it so if we broke down a legendary it gave us 50. The remaining players have gone through a lot and Trion owes us this much at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Kiwibird
peeps the inventory has always sorted items by nano
doesn't that tell you anything cause it should