just wondering about some of the nano effect perks

Edit: Still no answers atm...

What I kow:
I know the Bio nano removes armor plates the fastest and that radiation ignores 2.5 plates.

Bio has the following perks:
-Increase damage to armor from bio(up to 30%)
-Increase armor penetration from bio (up to 15%)
-Reduce incoming bio damage

and

Radiation has the following perks
-Increase your armor penetration from radiation (up to 30%)
-Increase your damage from radiation (up to 15%)
-Reduce incoming radiation damage

My assumptions:
-The armor penetration from radiation adds to the 2.5 plates ignored
-The damage to armor from bio removes armor even faster
-The increased damage from radiation is a direct damage boost to radiation attacks (it may have crossed my mind that this adds to the secondary effect of radiation that makes the subject under effect of radiation take 25% more damage from anything that hits it, but that seems a bit far fetched)
-The reducing is just reducing (and no questions about this one)

My questions:
-Are any of my assumptions wrong?
-What does the armor penetration perk from bio actually do

Inquiring minds would like to know...

Further, how about an actual explanation about how armour plates work in the first place. Exactly how much damage does it take to break an armour plate? Is it a scaling system with the TL (ie. takes 1000 dmg times "x" TL to break a plate)? Can we see the formula?

Further, I've been thinking that maybe the BIO armour penetration perk is counter productive? If 15% of dmg "penetrates" (bypasses?) the armour, then is that reducing the total dmg applied AGAINST armour damage (ie. is the dmg that penetrates being subtracted from armour dmg?)? This would result in less dps overall inflicted with BOTH perks enabled.

Why is NOTHING in this game ever explained clearly by the dev team? You'd think maybe even they don't know? Comon, can we get some light on this stuff?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quebra Regra

Inquiring minds would like to know...

Why is NOTHING in this game ever explained clearly by the dev team? You'd think maybe even they don't know? Comon, can we get some light on this stuff?

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I'll take They Don't Know for $1000, Alex. My second choice is that they do know but can't figure out a way to explain it that doesn't make them look foolish. Think "Top Hat".

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Originally Posted by fluor

What I kow:
I know the Bio nano removes armor plates the fastest and that radiation ignores 2.5 plates.

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While that's what we were told, I tested over the weekend and Radiation does not work that way anymore. Instead, it makes Armor Plates cause a 5% reduction in damage instead of 10%.

Quote:

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My assumptions:
-The armor penetration from radiation adds to the 2.5 plates ignored

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My guess is that it makes you ignore either 80% or 65% of plates (depending on how they stack with the base Nano), but I haven't bought the DLC to test yet.

Quote:

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-The damage to armor from bio removes armor even faster

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Seems like a safe assumption.

Quote:

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-The increased damage from radiation is a direct damage boost to radiation attacks

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I believe this is correct, but again I cannot test (sadly)

Quote:

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-What does the armor penetration perk from bio actually do

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My guess is that it adds a slight Radiation-esque Armor Ignore effect.

This seems like as good a place as any to dump some test results:

Fire: 50% Shield, 150% HP, .9x Card Damage
Elec: 150% Shield, 50% HP, .9x Card Damage
Bio: 75% Shield, 100% HP, .9x Card Damage
Rad: 75% Shield, 100% HP, .95x Card Damage
Siph: 75% Shield, 100% HP, .75x Card Damage
None: 75% Shield, 100% HP, 1x Card Damage

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quebra Regra

Why is NOTHING in this game ever explained clearly by the dev team? You'd think maybe even they don't know? Comon, can we get some light on this stuff?

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Are you saying you didn't find the hat metaphor illuminating and enlightening?

To be fair, they do confirm things that we figure out on our own, and sometimes Trick does simply volunteer information if you run into him in game. He explained to us exactly what was going on with the Warmaster's armor plates when he drops off the wall when he was poking around on the PC NA server when DLC 5 went live, and he told us on the test server that the armor penetration for radiation weapons was ~2.5 plates.

because top hats, is the new because grenades? :(

So, rad natively ignores 2.5 plates worth o' dmg reduction? So the RAD perk fully specd, pushes this further?

Too many questions remain on the field unanswered... Can we get Mr. Trick sequestered to a cell in Gitmo to answer the remaining questions? Seriously, "tops hat"?!?!? You'd think there was a language barrier with the TRION team, no?

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Originally Posted by 3rdpig

I'll take They Don't Know for $1000, Alex. My second choice is that they do know but can't figure out a way to explain it that doesn't make them look foolish. Think "Top Hat".

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http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/...ps04b8bcf2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Bonehead

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/...ps04b8bcf2.jpg

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Lol good thing I quit drinking my soda once I realized you probably replied in this thread.

Anyway I didn't pay much attention when checking intel, but I did notice that they DID update the help menu in the intel section of the menus quite a bit. Check there and see what they actually put in there with a recent update.

Mechanism on armor damage and health damage is separate.


that's why you only use bio weapon hit 10 armor target still can break it's armor

"Increase damage to armor from bio" and "Increase armor penetration from bio" perks have no conflict.





Plz do test before you post these Data Information post, nub are easier get influenced.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fluor

-The increased damage from radiation is a direct damage boost to radiation attacks (it may have crossed my mind that this adds to the secondary effect of radiation that makes the subject under effect of radiation take 25% more damage from anything that hits it, but that seems a bit far fetched)

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To YOUR radiation damage (which is both each individual bullet and the proc DoT).

They've already said (since 1.5 dropped) when a Nano procs, anyone hitting the same enemy gains the extra effect of said nano.

For example: if you are shooting an Ark Viscera with 7 AP, and he's got the Bio "poopshoes" and he's glowing green, your Electric shots will 1st damage his Armor Plates, 2nd Bypass them (once they get to 2 AP) and do extra damage to his shields (ignoring the 20% reduction from the 2 AP).

So, if four people are hitting the same Viscera and Bio, Raditation, Electric, and Fire nano procced on him, everyone's damage is getting each layer of bonuses. (Not likely to happen, but there you go.)

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Originally Posted by cary2010haha

Mechanism on armor damage and health damage is separate.


that's why you only use bio weapon hit 10 armor target still can break it's armor

"Increase damage to armor from bio" and "Increase armor penetration from bio" perks have no conflict.





Plz do test before you post these Data Information post, nub are easier get influenced.

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So how do both perks work exactly?

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Originally Posted by Deirachel

To YOUR radiation damage (which is both each individual bullet and the proc DoT).

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Are you saying the perk that adds a % to both the damage from the gun and the bonus damage that can be done? Or did you assume I wasn't talking about the perks any more?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cary2010haha

Mechanism on armor damage and health damage is separate.


that's why you only use bio weapon hit 10 armor target still can break it's armor

"Increase damage to armor from bio" and "Increase armor penetration from bio" perks have no conflict.





Plz do test before you post these Data Information post, nub are easier get influenced.

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You have answered nothing, and with no facts or details to support whatever it is you're asserting. You are "nub".
http://www.thefrisky.com/wp-content/...13-400x300.jpg

no one who can answer this?

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Originally Posted by fluor

no one who can answer this?

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At least in theory, the TRION devs can. I'm less interested in the speculation of those who do not have definitive facts.

i laughed reading when i saw this topic i was wondering the same thing as even some say pretty much a lot of thing on this game have no explanation. I didn't find out about Spikes and Stim till mid way of the storyline. As for armor i thought that was a rank level icon LOL. You know like 1 Armor = Less then 500 ego, 2 Armor = More then 500.

I realized i was wrong when i saw hordes of people with 2 Armor that have like 3k+ Ego. I never pay attention to those though sometimes i think i should. Most the time i just look at the stats if it does more dmg and has high hit ratio then my other gun i swap it.

Other then the shield, i only understand the elemental resistance. And i have to say i love the fire resistance. My most cause of death is from fire and being fire resistant made my gameplay so much easier.

I am slowly learning lol. very slow.....

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Originally Posted by QuickStirr

i laughed reading when i saw this topic i was wondering the same thing as even some say pretty much a lot of thing on this game have no explanation. I didn't find out about Spikes and Stim till mid way of the storyline. As for armor i thought that was a rank level icon LOL. You know like 1 Armor = Less then 500 ego, 2 Armor = More then 500.

I realized i was wrong when i saw hordes of people with 2 Armor that have like 3k+ Ego. I never pay attention to those though sometimes i think i should. Most the time i just look at the stats if it does more dmg and has high hit ratio then my other gun i swap it.

Other then the shield, i only understand the elemental resistance. And i have to say i love the fire resistance. My most cause of death is from fire and being fire resistant made my gameplay so much easier.

I am slowly learning lol. very slow.....

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I've send you a pm that explains the basics of nano effects on weapons, it also includes a few links to guides.

But I'm still looking for some answers on my questions :)

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Originally Posted by Deirachel

For example: if you are shooting an Ark Viscera with 7 AP, and he's got the Bio "poopshoes" and he's glowing green, your Electric shots will 1st damage his Armor Plates, 2nd Bypass them (once they get to 2 AP) and do extra damage to his shields (ignoring the 20% reduction from the 2 AP).

So, if four people are hitting the same Viscera and Bio, Raditation, Electric, and Fire nano procced on him, everyone's damage is getting each layer of bonuses. (Not likely to happen, but there you go.)

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Nano processes overwrite one another.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quebra Regra

Inquiring minds would like to know...

Further, how about an actual explanation about how armour plates work in the first place. Exactly how much damage does it take to break an armour plate? Is it a scaling system with the TL (ie. takes 1000 dmg times "x" TL to break a plate)? Can we see the formula?

Further, I've been thinking that maybe the BIO armour penetration perk is counter productive? If 15% of dmg "penetrates" (bypasses?) the armour, then is that reducing the total dmg applied AGAINST armour damage (ie. is the dmg that penetrates being subtracted from armour dmg?)? This would result in less dps overall inflicted with BOTH perks enabled.

Why is NOTHING in this game ever explained clearly by the dev team? You'd think maybe even they don't know? Comon, can we get some light on this stuff?

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I don't think it's overall damage that removes armor plates, I believe it's amount of hits, my Bio VBI SMG will pull down 6/7/8 armor plates in no time at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deunan

Nano processes overwrite one another.

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Wasn't it said somewhere on this forum (in one of the warmaster threads) that the radiation procs stack?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Z0mb1E

I don't think it's overall damage that removes armor plates, I believe it's amount of hits, my Bio VBI SMG will pull down 6/7/8 armor plates in no time at all.

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Although I'm not sure about this, I also assumed what you said (tested it and early results said it was true). That's why I use my smg with bio nano to remove armor plates.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deunan

Nano processes overwrite one another.

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SERIOUSLY!?!?!? Oh now there's a not so fun fact!!!!! Holy MASS EFFECT 3 MP primer problem Batman!!!!

Why can't various nanos stack? R U sure? please tell me yer joking?

*kooks around at the 200+ people at the arkfall...wait, nobody use a different nano, I'm poop shooesing!!*

****

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Originally Posted by Z0mb1E

I don't think it's overall damage that removes armor plates, I believe it's amount of hits, my Bio VBI SMG will pull down 6/7/8 armor plates in no time at all.

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This seems sensible. Methinks a simple test of the same weapon at low and high levels will yield a confirmation of sorts. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fluor

Wasn't it said somewhere on this forum (in one of the warmaster threads) that the radiation procs stack?



Although I'm not sure about this, I also assumed what you said (tested it and early results said it was true). That's why I use my smg with bio nano to remove armor plates.

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Ahhh, no wonder my GRIND FRAGGER shreds armour like a beast (sorry but I swear the pellets proc more).

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Originally Posted by Quebra Regra

Ahhh, no wonder my GRIND FRAGGER shreds armour like a beast (sorry but I swear the pellets proc more).

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I didn't do allot of tests and none with a shotgun, so I wouldn't state it as absolutely true.

And still no answer on the original questions.

One last try to see if someone actually knows something...

Short answers (in red):

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fluor

My assumptions:
-The armor penetration from radiation adds to the 2.5 plates ignored Correct, at fully upgraded, it becomes 3.125 armor plates ignored
-The damage to armor from bio removes armor even faster Correct, although the rate is still not fully understood
-The increased damage from radiation is a direct damage boost to radiation attacks (it may have crossed my mind that this adds to the secondary effect of radiation that makes the subject under effect of radiation take 25% more damage from anything that hits it, but that seems a bit far fetched)Correct, see the Wall o' Text below for a more complete answer
-The reducing is just reducing (and no questions about this one)

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Incoming Wall of Text and Theorycraft:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fluor

Are you saying the perk that adds a % to both the damage from the gun and the bonus damage that can be done? Or did you assume I wasn't talking about the perks any more?

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With 1.5, each round of a nano gun does the nano's type of damage, in addition to the DoT effect procing. So, the perks, effectively, can add damage both to the gun and the DoT damage of a nano proc (with the appropriate conditions).

Example 1:

I have EGO 4996 Purple FRC Assualt Carbine Fire w/ a x1.05 DMG roll. Without the Fire perks from DLC5, it does 3677 DMG per bullet (+35 to Health, -50% to Shields). With the perk Conflagration, each bullet does 3677+1286.95(35% DMG to health, Fire Nano)+551.55(15% DMG to health, Perk)= 5515.5 DMG to health, 3677-1838.5 (-50% to Shields)=1838.5 DMG to shields. (Take off 10% for each armor plate on the enemy.)

Example 2:

I have a 5345 Orange VBI TACC Assault Rifle, w/o DMG roll or Power Bore. It does 5199 DMG per shot. With the perk Radiation Burns, each shot does 5199 + 15% dmg= 5978.85 DMG/shot. As this is Radiation nano, it ignores 2.5 Armor plates of the damage reduction (adding Gamma Rays increases that to 3.125 Armor Plates).

When the effect procs, it does damage over time. This DoT is effected by the appropriate perk in the same way as bullet damage is increased. Additionally, the effect adds the bonus of it's element (i.e. Bio breaking armor, Electric breaking shields, etc.) to ALL the bullets hitting the target from other sources. However, the perks on your loadout increasing the damage of your shots does not increase the effects of the other sources shots. Nor are your shots nano "converted" to the Nano effect currently proced on the enemy.

Example A:

You are shooting an Electric shotgun and the Fire effect procs on an enemy from another player hitting it, and you have Conflagration perk on your current load out, your shots are NOT increased by the perk as your shots are still Electric, not Fire, although they gain the added boost of more damage to health. In this case, your Electric Shots are doing more damage to shields AND health, instead of less damage to health, while the guy is on fire, but not doing extra damage to their armor plates.


Example B:

Same as above, except you are using a Nanoless gun. You are still doing extra damage to health (+15%), but no other increases to damage to armor or shield.

Example C:

You are using a Bio Gun, otherwise same as above. You do more damage to armor and health, but not shields.


Because of all of this, when working as a team, it appears to be more advantageous to use a faster firing weapon, with slightly lower damage (like an SMG over a AR, or a Mazu Blast over a TACC Assault). This is because the chance of the nano effect proccing on the enemy is based on the round, instead of time. Additionally, perks such as Insult to Injury (increases chance of nano effect procing on crit hit) become more valuable.

For a well coordinated, lower EGO fire team, having three guys each with a single fast nano weapon and a non-nano high damage weapon can be quite effective. To make the most of perks and nano proc effects, a good tactic would be for shooter 1 (bio) to hit the guy first to get the bio effect proced, and then the other join in with their non-nano weapons. Once the armor is down, shooter 2 (electric) switches to his nano weapon, and shooter 1 and 3 go nanoless. Finally, armor and shield are down, so shooter 3 (fire) switches to his nano, and 1 and 2 go nanoless. (The fourth is the medic.)

Make sense?