Reloads under 1 do make a difference

I made a video to show the difference that reloads under 1 do indeed make a noticeable difference.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthrea...=1#post1626099


Here are 2 couriers I have one with a .2 reload and the other with a .7 I chose them since they do not have a 0 reload

http://i.imgur.com/xfgtYCe.jpg

You can see the difference in this video. I fired 2 shots with the .2 and then switched weapons and fired 2 shots with the .7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvwVa...ature=youtu.be
http://youtu.be/bvwVav63q6M

This. The devs stated multiple times that the reload animation takes one second unless its higher than 1 in which case the reload is slowed and the additional time is added. They say that this "fact" makes all the extra reload rolls redundant. They said the unbreakable "speed of light" law is already in the game, but only when you get to 0.0 does it break. So, how do they explain this?

I cant make heads or tails of anything they say. The later posts by rashere say existing guns wont be effected. WTF? Does he mean my zagger will still have no animation? Or my zagger will still keep its rolls, but have a one sec animation? Or,.... jesus idk.

Also, what is happening with pump reloads? I have a slugger with .3 reload per shell. I can put two shells in it in .6 sec and fire. Now with the 1 sec min it looks like I'll put 3 in per sec, nerfing my reload to 3.33333 but I wouldn't be surprised if thats wrong.

I have other issues too but I'm tired of typing.

We just have to wait and see. Last time they messed with reload mechanics for something, my bonfire went to zero reload for a couple of days. That was some fun for a while. Full auto bonfire. There will be unintended consequences. I just hope they are entertaining and not too troublesome.

Isn't it that the reloads of less than 1 second were a bug affecting a number of weapons including but not limited to the Zagger and that it was going to be fixed in the next patch which is yet to be deployed but in the PTS enviroment?

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Originally Posted by BlackTalons

Isn't it that the reloadas of less than 1 second were a bug affecting a number of weapons including but not limited to the Zagger and that it was going to be fixed in the next patch which is yet to be deployed but in the PTS enviroment?

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I'm pretty sure that they said that the 1 second minimum had been in place for everything except guns that managed to reach 0.0 Reload. That it was only guns that reached 0.0 that were actually bugged. The other change was to make the weapon cards not show reload values below 1.0, because the weapons were already (at least supposedly) held to a 1 second minimum.

Though what ironcladtrash says below may be the truth, that the displayed weapon card times were supposed to be in addition to the 1 second minimum.

EDIT:
In the Game Mechanics Update announcement, Trick said: "There’s a long-standing bug that allowed guns to be reloaded instantly if you modded it to be exactly a 0 second reload time. Anything else would properly respect the 1 second minimum reload time, though the UI could incorrectly display less than 1 second."

In a reply in the Weapon Rarity Rolls thread, Rashere posted: "The 1 second min isn't new."

What he said was any rolls that make your weapon under 1 is useless. I proved in my video that this not true as there is a clear difference between the .2 and .7 When the change goes to PTS both these guns would have a reload of 1 making all the bonuses on my legendary courier useless.

I am hoping he actually means something different. I suspect that my reload on my Couriers are actually 1.2 and 1.7 and not .2 and .7. If that is the case the change to reinforce the 1 second should only just show that on the card now making the card say 1.2 and 1.7 and also fix the 0 reloads that skip the animation like the Zagger. Hopefully then it really doesn't change anything. Otherwise this is a giant nerf across the board on anything with reload bonuses and not just the Zagger.

Nice thread Ironclad. This is a perfect example of why it is so important to us to have things on PTS with ample time to test and discuss.

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Originally Posted by ironcladtrash

What he said was any rolls that make your weapon under 1 is useless. I proved in my video that this not true as there is a clear difference between the .2 and .7 When the change goes to PTS both these guns would have a reload of 1 making all the bonuses on my legendary courier useless.

I am hoping he actually means something different. I suspect that my reload on my Couriers are actually 1.2 and 1.7 and not .2 and .7. If that is the case the change to reinforce the 1 second should only just show that on the card now making the card say 1.2 and 1.7 and also fix the 0 reloads that skip the animation like the Zagger. Hopefully then it really doesn't change anything. Otherwise this is a giant nerf across the board on anything with reload bonuses and not just the Zagger.

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Both reloads in that video are at least 1 second. It's not the time it takes to load the rounds that matters, but the time it takes from when you hit reload to the weapon being ready. If you were to hit 0 reload, it would skip the entire animation and reload instantly.

Single shot reload weapons, like that Courier, were treated differently since the reload time was "per shot" rather than the whole mag. I want to take a keen look at them once we get PTS updated since special behaviors are usually the ones where problems come up. I'd be curious to copy your character over and try the same loadout with the updates there to see those difference in practice.

Rashere

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Originally Posted by jay ellis

I cant make heads or tails of anything they say. The later posts by rashere say existing guns wont be effected.

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Jay, probably best to just ignore that. Those comments had nothing to do with these changes. I was referring to future changes I'm working on to update the bonus rolls with a particular eye at removing ones that don't have any effect, usually due to compounding rolls hitting some cap.

Rashere

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Originally Posted by Rashere

Both reloads in that video are at least 1 second. It's not the time it takes to load the rounds that matters, but the time it takes from when you hit reload to the weapon being ready. If you were to hit 0 reload, it would skip the entire animation and reload instantly.

Single shot reload weapons, like that Courier, were treated differently since the reload time was "per shot" rather than the whole mag. I want to take a keen look at them once we get PTS updated since special behaviors are usually the ones where problems come up. I'd be curious to copy your character over and try the same loadout with the updates there to see those difference in practice.

Rashere

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What about guns with clips? On say a vbi smg, the animation speeds up when its under 1 sec. This is particularly noticeable when using overload or single minded. Will these reloads change too?

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Originally Posted by jay ellis

What about guns with clips? On say a vbi smg, the animation speeds up when its under 1 sec. This is particularly noticeable when using overload or single minded. Will these reloads change too?

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I grabbed a couple, one with a 0.3 reload and 1 with a 1 second reload. I don't see any noticeable difference. They're both reloading in about 1 second. If you've got ones where you are seeing a difference, and its reloading faster than 1 second from the time you hit reload to the time you can fire again, send me the details. A video like Ironclad did is amazingly helpful.

Rashere

Thanks for the due diligence Rashere, it is appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Amack

Thanks for the due diligence Rashere, it is appreciated.

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Of course. :) The goal is an improved experience. Once a game gets to a certain size, there's all sorts of oddities hiding away in the corners of the code. I wouldn't be horribly surprised to find there are times when things don't work like we expect. If that's the case, I want to find them before they go live so we can adjust accordingly and not accidentally cause harm to existing guns. It's totally worth the time to investigate reports of oddities to ensure that happens.

Rashere

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Originally Posted by Rashere

I grabbed a couple, one with a 0.3 reload and 1 with a 1 second reload. I don't see any noticeable difference. They're both reloading in about 1 second. If you've got ones where you are seeing a difference, and its reloading faster than 1 second from the time you hit reload to the time you can fire again, send me the details. A video like Ironclad did is amazingly helpful.

Rashere

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Alright man, I'm logging on in a little I'll check it out. I'm on ps3 so no way to make vids, but I'll let you know. Thanks for responding.

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Originally Posted by Amack

Thanks for the due diligence Rashere, it is appreciated.

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2nded. I think i can probably show some more vids too. I think I have rockets that show a similar difference.

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Originally Posted by jay ellis

Alright man, I'm logging on in a little I'll check it out. I'm on ps3 so no way to make vids, but I'll let you know. Thanks for responding.

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No problem. If you find a case, just PM me with the weapon details and I'll see if I can recreate it.

Rashere

Hi Jay

Remember, you can log into PTS (as soon as its up) as well which is PC based and easier to videos from.
If you want your PS3 character copied to PTS (with all your weapons) PM me your PSN name, character name, and the email address you used to login into PTS (whcih you must have done once for me to copy).

More details on that process here: http://forums.defiance.com/showthrea...Character-Copy

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Originally Posted by ironcladtrash

2nded. I think i can probably show some more vids too. I think I have rockets that show a similar difference.

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Rockets are single-shot reload weapons as well, so should do the same thing you see with those couriers. The total reload time should be at least one second in both cases, though the one with the lower reload will reload faster overall.

Rashere

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Originally Posted by Rashere

Both reloads in that video are at least 1 second. It's not the time it takes to load the rounds that matters, but the time it takes from when you hit reload to the weapon being ready. If you were to hit 0 reload, it would skip the entire animation and reload instantly.

Single shot reload weapons, like that Courier, were treated differently since the reload time was "per shot" rather than the whole mag. I want to take a keen look at them once we get PTS updated since special behaviors are usually the ones where problems come up. I'd be curious to copy your character over and try the same loadout with the updates there to see those difference in practice.

Rashere

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I also have a 0 reload courier that doesn't skip the animation but it really isn't much different then my .2 . Please copy my character over to the PTS. I want to try it too. My current character on PTS is only like 5100 something and is missing a lot of the inventory I could test with. If you could delete that one and copy my current character I would be glad to test it again.

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Originally Posted by ironcladtrash

I also have a 0 reload courier that doesn't skip the animation but it really isn't much different then my .2 . Please copy my character over to the PTS. I want to try it too. My current character on PTS is only like 5100 something and is missing a lot of the inventory I could test with. If you could delete that one and copy my current character I would be glad to test it again.

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Yep. Check Phantasie's post, PM him the info he needs, and we'll get you copied over.

Rashere

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Originally Posted by Rashere

I grabbed a couple, one with a 0.3 reload and 1 with a 1 second reload. I don't see any noticeable difference. They're both reloading in about 1 second. If you've got ones where you are seeing a difference, and its reloading faster than 1 second from the time you hit reload to the time you can fire again, send me the details. A video like Ironclad did is amazingly helpful.

Rashere

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Is that right? Shouldn't a .3 be faster than a 1.0? Reload is a 1 second animation with the value then added correct? If it is not then guns with reload under 1.0 rolls have wasted useless rolls. Will a reroll happen if that is the case?

I hope someone on PTS has a 0 reload Nano Fragger to test..

EDIT: Or any 0 reload that used to skip animation so we can can a video.

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Originally Posted by Chump Norris

I hope someone on PTS has a 0 reload Nano Fragger to test..

EDIT: Or any 0 reload that used to skip animation so we can can a video.

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PTS is not even fully up at the moment only a few have been able to sneek on and get to play around with the new stuff. but sadly we all have to wait till the weekend to get testing on it

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Originally Posted by Chump Norris

I hope someone on PTS has a 0 reload Nano Fragger to test..

EDIT: Or any 0 reload that used to skip animation so we can can a video.

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They tricked me out of 500 plus 15 re masters to get the reload master. I won't mind as much as long as the reload below 1 second matters and is not wasted.

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Originally Posted by Chump Norris

I hope someone on PTS has a 0 reload Nano Fragger to test..

EDIT: Or any 0 reload that used to skip animation so we can can a video.

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I have a QM Nano Fragger with Zagger rolls. Speedy feet of course.

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Originally Posted by konstantinov

I have a QM Nano Fragger with Zagger rolls. Speedy feet of course.

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You shouldn't even log in after next patch then..You probably didn't want to anyway :)

heres some non zagger reload comparisons

How's it affect the pump actions since most have a 0.7 reload or smaller? Sorry I am ok with the changes, but can't quite make sense of how it affects all the weapons which is why I am asking for a more clear answer.

Hi, I made a comparison video as well. I used 2 different types of needlers for mine and used the last frame of muzzle flash as the sync point for the side by side. The left side is from the live server (pre-aftermath changes) and the right side is from PTS (post aftermath changes).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qODEX026BY

Weapon 1: Needler with 0.8 reload speed
Weapon 2: Needler with 0.4 reload speed
NA PC Server: opium2k
PTS: opium2k PTS

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Originally Posted by PhantasieTrion

Hi Jay

Remember, you can log into PTS (as soon as its up) as well which is PC based and easier to videos from.
If you want your PS3 character copied to PTS (with all your weapons) PM me your PSN name, character name, and the email address you used to login into PTS (whcih you must have done once for me to copy).

More details on that process here: http://forums.defiance.com/showthrea...Character-Copy

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i was wondering the reload nerf is for npcs too right?

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Originally Posted by Atticus Batman

How's it affect the pump actions since most have a 0.7 reload or smaller? Sorry I am ok with the changes, but can't quite make sense of how it affects all the weapons which is why I am asking for a more clear answer.

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If I don't mistake basically each shell is multiplied to make a full reload time, in stoodakiss' case it's 3.6 full reload time with 14 mag and 0.4 shell reload... It should be 0.4 * 14 = 5.2 but it says 3.6...

Check out stoodakiss video for clarity at 0:30 and 2:19... I think pump shotguns did get a reload buff after all.

I'm going to chime in on this after a little thought.

I have a zero reload Zagger that is legendary. It does not fire instantly, after first firing. If it did, every time I spam my fire button it would fire. There is some reload timer function that does occur. Maybe if I had to time it, it would around 1 second or a little less, but not by much.

Rashere or Phantasie maybe you can look at mine and tell me if there is something different about mine, versus these reports? (Character Name is the same on PTS and Live)

I am a little confused about these issues, as to why they are so game breaking. I can understand a BMG that never stops, or a gun that you can press fire and never have a pause until you empty your ammo reserves. I just haven't seen these in most players.

Oh and btw in regards to pump action reloads, in real life there are speed reload techniques and helper devices. Just have to watch some competition shows on TV to know that. Most of those guys on the competition shows can have their full tube reloaded in a second or two.