To the people who say, 'Oh it's just day 4, give them time to iron the bugs out'

1) A lot of the people complaining on this forum are experiencing issues like me. ZERO NPCs are spawning, Randomly being killed by enemies that are spawning but not appearing anywhere on the screen (Such as in Ark Falls, btw, the Ark fall appears on the map, but not spatially. Enemies will still kill you. Over. And over.) Stuck on a story quest WAAAAY early on because you can't beat a quest with nothing spawning. Asking us to 'enjoy the game while they iron out the bugs' is literally like telling us, 'Look at the awesome map design burn into your plasma screen as you jerk it because that's about all your going to be able to do until there is a fix.'
...On day FOOOOOOOUUUUUUURRRRR

2) I get that it's an MMO. I've been playing MMOs for the better part of 10 years now. I've beta tested for a few even. Never have I seen an MMO go gold with such horrific bugs still in the game. Beta tests exist for a reason. It's for quality assurance. It's to cover issues like server capacity and functionality and to find bugs like NPCs not spawning. It's not suppose to be a month long process. It's suppose to take as long as it needs to ensure everything is covered. They should have done a open beta if only for a week to test server capacity and even at that point, there should have been enough time from closed betas to reach the final product code. A in house quality assurance team should pre test sample product registration codes and log on and play for about an hour to make sure there won't be issues with that, including obtaining preorder content and other things. The final product code should have been ready a week before it's release. Xbox was playing old product code a week ago. Like all it was was a tease for xbox players since they complained so much about not being able to play after it was beta released for PS3. There was no point in calling it a beta test or even making it closed.

3) After all is said and done, yes, the game is still there. The possibility is still solid. However, the frustrations of several people are understandable. I bought the UC because I truly enjoyed the beta and expected a lot of this stuff to be covered when I got it. I couldn't even play due to patching issues until day 3. I can play now but only in an empty world where my quests won't proceed. So why am I to be expected to 'Simmer down' and 'Enjoy the game' when the game feels like it's still being alpha tested for movement bugs when I'm logged in?

These are the big issues that we are currently faced with, and it comes down to either vent on the forum and apply pressure to the company to fix these changes or demand refunds for a product that isn't delivering what we were promised.

You got these "White Knights" on every game forum sadly.

First day(s) impression is what matters. If they are bad, the game won't end up well and will start losing players rapidly and dissapearing into the void of silence.

- No working chat system
- 3 days after launch still no loot from Arkfalls
- Server crash (ok can happen no problem) with severe rollback! (and not even admitting nor communicating it.... NOT OK!)

These are just some of the issues that can litterly kill this game early on. /sigh

Agreed mate! also Ofc but you will always get these people who tell you "****" and you don't have any reason to vent on here...when you do because Trion will read what you have said right there and add you to the list of people wanting the game to be fixed....which is good pressure and works. If everyone didn't complain the fixes would likely take longer, or other issues wouldn't not come across there knowledge. Forums are an essential feedback tool.

Yup, the White-Knight'ing is strong in these parts.
There is always a crowd for any game no matter how good or bad it is.
I'm neutral towards Defiance, it's not a good game but it's not bad.
Thing is, you know when a game doesn't have mass appeal.
I played APB and said already in alpha that it was ****... nothing changed, beta was on and and the game actually released the same way it was during development.
Anyone that was not a fanboy could have predicted APB was gonna do badly.
I simply had and have the same feeling again, this game isn't going to attract that many people and will not be able to hook them.
I might be wrong but if I was the boss and they showed me this game I'd facepalm.

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Originally Posted by Jeronan

You got these "White Knights" on every game forum sadly.

First day(s) impression is what matters. If they are bad, the game won't end up well and will start losing players rapidly and dissapearing into the void of silence.

- No working chat system
- 3 days after launch still no loot from Arkfalls
- Server crash (ok can happen no problem) with severe rollback! (and not even admitting nor communicating it.... NOT OK!)

These are just some of the issues that can litterly kill this game early on. /sigh

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I can't tell if you are arguing with me or siding with me... The first sentence throws me off because I'm not siding with Trion. I think they should have done a little more testing to ensure all is good.

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Originally Posted by Zyrlux

I can't tell if you are arguing with me or siding with me... The first sentence throws me off because I'm not siding with Trion. I think they should have done a little more testing to ensure all is good.

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?? Are you serious ?? never heard of the Expression "White Knights" ? Ofcourse I am siding with you. /shrug

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Originally Posted by Zyrlux

1) A lot of the people complaining on this forum are experiencing issues like me. ZERO NPCs are spawning, Randomly being killed by enemies that are spawning but not appearing anywhere on the screen (Such as in Ark Falls, btw, the Ark fall appears on the map, but not spatially. Enemies will still kill you. Over. And over.) Stuck on a story quest WAAAAY early on because you can't beat a quest with nothing spawning. Asking us to 'enjoy the game while they iron out the bugs' is literally like telling us, 'Look at the awesome map design burn into your plasma screen as you jerk it because that's about all your going to be able to do until there is a fix.'
...On day FOOOOOOOUUUUUUURRRRR

2) I get that it's an MMO. I've been playing MMOs for the better part of 10 years now. I've beta tested for a few even. Never have I seen an MMO go gold with such horrific bugs still in the game. Beta tests exist for a reason. It's for quality assurance. It's to cover issues like server capacity and functionality and to find bugs like NPCs not spawning. It's not suppose to be a month long process. It's suppose to take as long as it needs to ensure everything is covered. They should have done a open beta if only for a week to test server capacity and even at that point, there should have been enough time from closed betas to reach the final product code. A in house quality assurance team should pre test sample product registration codes and log on and play for about an hour to make sure there won't be issues with that, including obtaining preorder content and other things. The final product code should have been ready a week before it's release. Xbox was playing old product code a week ago. Like all it was was a tease for xbox players since they complained so much about not being able to play after it was beta released for PS3. There was no point in calling it a beta test or even making it closed.

3) After all is said and done, yes, the game is still there. The possibility is still solid. However, the frustrations of several people are understandable. I bought the UC because I truly enjoyed the beta and expected a lot of this stuff to be covered when I got it. I couldn't even play due to patching issues until day 3. I can play now but only in an empty world where my quests won't proceed. So why am I to be expected to 'Simmer down' and 'Enjoy the game' when the game feels like it's still being alpha tested for movement bugs when I'm logged in?

These are the big issues that we are currently faced with, and it comes down to either vent on the forum and apply pressure to the company to fix these changes or demand refunds for a product that isn't delivering what we were promised.

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I feel your pain. I to have been understanding and I am trying to remain so, but come on Trion this is getting old real fast. I supported this game, I pre ordered it and even talked a few friends into pre-ordering it (which I am currently receiving no small amount of grief over from said friends) I don't believe it is too much to ask to be able to play a game which was bought and paid for on the release day. Wtf happened to QA in the development of this game. The ten min that I have been able to play with others on the server in the past few days have been fun. Unfortunately I spent the majority of my time in game I the limbo described above.

Rather than let them iron them out, give them time to actually roll out the fixes. Some(not all) of the things that people are having issues with have already been patched out during the alpha, but I'm sure it still has to go through QA and etc before it can hit the live environment.

You can help the process along with new bugs by going into settings(Esc -> Space -> Settings -> Keys tab -> Submit Feedback -> click on feedback in the box and select bug report). This sends them a bunch of information including whatever it is you type in the box. TRION is great at squashing bugs underfoot(anyone who played RIFT at launch should understand).

Also, I love when people say that they've been playing MMOs for X number of years, and then saying something that should be a given for new MMOs to experience. I have not been through one launch in that same period of time where a game didn't have server issues on day one, regardless of how much testing they did before hand. If the servers aren't imploding on launch day, then I'm concerned because, typically, it means that not that many people are playing.

inb4 I'm called a white knight because angry people are angry and will lash out at anyone who doesn't share their opinion on the matter.

Why not stop being a cry baby and give people some time to work things out. People want something new and non generic, yet they can't give the company trying something new a few days to work things out? Grow up.

The sooner these trolls move on... The better.

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Originally Posted by Darkane

Why not stop being a cry baby and give people some time to work things out. People want something new and non generic, yet they can't give the company trying something new a few days to work things out? Grow up.

The sooner these trolls move on... The better.

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The trolls won't move for some time as they paid the game same as you. Why? Because trolls like to see that they get their money's worth of gaming, which apparently they think is not the case. And in some cases it truly isn't.
Which also means that each thread such as this is more appropriate to this game and it's future than your (or mine for that matter:)) nonconstructive and utterly personal response.

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Originally Posted by cfStatic

Rather than let them iron them out, give them time to actually roll out the fixes. Some(not all) of the things that people are having issues with have already been patched out during the alpha, but I'm sure it still has to go through QA and etc before it can hit the live environment.

You can help the process along with new bugs by going into settings(Esc -> Space -> Settings -> Keys tab -> Submit Feedback -> click on feedback in the box and select bug report). This sends them a bunch of information including whatever it is you type in the box. TRION is great at squashing bugs underfoot(anyone who played RIFT at launch should understand).

Also, I love when people say that they've been playing MMOs for X number of years, and then saying something that should be a given for new MMOs to experience. I have not been through one launch in that same period of time where a game didn't have server issues on day one, regardless of how much testing they did before hand. If the servers aren't imploding on launch day, then I'm concerned because, typically, it means that not that many people are playing.

inb4 I'm called a white knight because angry people are angry and will lash out at anyone who doesn't share their opinion on the matter.

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Yes. Bugs occur. Servers implode. These happen to small degrees and USE to be fixed within a night or two. This is day four. The same **** is happening. I've seen launches go over smoothly. Dofus for example, was released just under a decade ago, in 2006 if I'm not mistaken. Wanna know what happened on that launch? One day worth of laggy server issues. A few visual glitches. Some things that they thought would go over better but didn't. Wanna know why? Because it was in open beta for over 2 months. It wasn't even made by that good of a company AND it was their first game. With Wakfu's release, there weren't a whole lot of issues either. They gauged the estimated server capacity by holding an event. Anyone who logged in within hour x and hour x on day x got item x. They get a feel of their peak server capacity. It's about proper planning and execution and while Trion DID do well with Rift, it was mostly because almost all of Rift was damn near cloned from WoW. Down to numerical values and process. I have only played it once again since launch and that was only to see if they ever changed anything to separate the massive WoW similarity and from what I saw, no. Still looks like they were like hey, you know what would be cool? Then added those ideas and for the stuff they were like, well what about this? Well wow did pretty well with this, lets just do something like that. With Defiance being a seemingly made from scratch game, it takes a bit of work but they didn't give themselves much practice with Rift. Now, I never played secret wars because my comp couldn't handle it, but I heard good things about their launch. Old republic as well. I started to play for launch by my gfx card wasn't able to handle it. There are so many examples of the GOOD releases that you choose to ignore...for what end? "Oh, it's okay, it's just day four, bugs are to be expected." Well, so is action. So are patches. So is quality. So is, 'If they want their money, they will earn it.' And so far, they yet to seem to have earned it.

So, instead of the General Discussion forums being flooded with "THIS GAME IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD" threads, can we just start a single thread that anyone having issues can post in? I want to talk the the other people who AREN'T having problems. I want to discuss Arkfalls and things like that.

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Originally Posted by Zyrlux

Yes. Bugs occur. Servers implode. These happen to small degrees and USE to be fixed within a night or two. This is day four. The same **** is happening. I've seen launches go over smoothly. Dofus for example, was released just under a decade ago, in 2006 if I'm not mistaken. Wanna know what happened on that launch? One day worth of laggy server issues. A few visual glitches. Some things that they thought would go over better but didn't. Wanna know why? Because it was in open beta for over 2 months. It wasn't even made by that good of a company AND it was their first game. With Wakfu's release, there weren't a whole lot of issues either. They gauged the estimated server capacity by holding an event. Anyone who logged in within hour x and hour x on day x got item x. They get a feel of their peak server capacity. It's about proper planning and execution and while Trion DID do well with Rift, it was mostly because almost all of Rift was damn near cloned from WoW. Down to numerical values and process. I have only played it once again since launch and that was only to see if they ever changed anything to separate the massive WoW similarity and from what I saw, no. Still looks like they were like hey, you know what would be cool? Then added those ideas and for the stuff they were like, well what about this? Well wow did pretty well with this, lets just do something like that. With Defiance being a seemingly made from scratch game, it takes a bit of work but they didn't give themselves much practice with Rift. Now, I never played secret wars because my comp couldn't handle it, but I heard good things about their launch. Old republic as well. I started to play for launch by my gfx card wasn't able to handle it. There are so many examples of the GOOD releases that you choose to ignore...for what end? "Oh, it's okay, it's just day four, bugs are to be expected." Well, so is action. So are patches. So is quality. So is, 'If they want their money, they will earn it.' And so far, they yet to seem to have earned it.

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They are having to fix issues across three platforms not just one.
Your whining is invalid.

Wow, really just wow. Gamers are by far some of the most impatient and entitled people sometimes. Of course it's frustrating to not be able to play, but do you honestly think Trion isn't also frustrated. They want people to enjoy and play the project they have worked so long and hard on too. You think they are just squatting on your hard earned cash laughing at your misfortune? Grow up. Learn some patience.

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Originally Posted by Zyrlux

Yes. Bugs occur. Servers implode. These happen to small degrees and USE to be fixed within a night or two. This is day four. The same **** is happening. I've seen launches go over smoothly. Dofus for example, was released just under a decade ago, in 2006 if I'm not mistaken. Wanna know what happened on that launch? One day worth of laggy server issues. A few visual glitches. Some things that they thought would go over better but didn't. Wanna know why? Because it was in open beta for over 2 months. It wasn't even made by that good of a company AND it was their first game. With Wakfu's release, there weren't a whole lot of issues either. They gauged the estimated server capacity by holding an event. Anyone who logged in within hour x and hour x on day x got item x. They get a feel of their peak server capacity. It's about proper planning and execution and while Trion DID do well with Rift, it was mostly because almost all of Rift was damn near cloned from WoW. Down to numerical values and process. I have only played it once again since launch and that was only to see if they ever changed anything to separate the massive WoW similarity and from what I saw, no. Still looks like they were like hey, you know what would be cool? Then added those ideas and for the stuff they were like, well what about this? Well wow did pretty well with this, lets just do something like that. With Defiance being a seemingly made from scratch game, it takes a bit of work but they didn't give themselves much practice with Rift. Now, I never played secret wars because my comp couldn't handle it, but I heard good things about their launch. Old republic as well. I started to play for launch by my gfx card wasn't able to handle it. There are so many examples of the GOOD releases that you choose to ignore...for what end? "Oh, it's okay, it's just day four, bugs are to be expected." Well, so is action. So are patches. So is quality. So is, 'If they want their money, they will earn it.' And so far, they yet to seem to have earned it.

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Speculation, conjecture, etc, etc. If you wanted to voice your opinion the best way to do it is in a constructive manner with a realization that not everyone is going to side with or see your point of view. I think it stinks that you are having issues, but out of how many players how many are having issues? I'd like to note that 'white knights' are far fewer on a forum than those that wish to complain meaning if there are a lot of people singing the games praises then Trion has got something right, and they are working on the rest of the issues as quickly as they can.

I mean they didn't just launch an MMO they launched three MMOs two of them on console and another for PC, that is a pretty major feat in any genre. I hope they get the issues resolved that are keeping you from enjoying the game and have faith they will, but trashing them does not speed up the process nor garner you many friends in the community who are enjoying the game.

Oh and to leave a oil stain on your little runon paragraph of a *****fest.

Rift copied Wow and wow copied Everquest/Ultima. Whats your point?

Keep in mind this is an MMOTPSRPG, not some box n ship title. MMOs work differently. They require constant updates and new content, and Defiance will be getting this on a weekly basis as the show comes out. This means Trion has several full-time employees working on the game after its release. I'm guessing most of you guys are counsel players. Now I game on PC and XBOX and at first I was super pissed at Trion too. After some reading I realized that this launch is actually running fairly smoothly as far as MMOs go.
Now I've played plenty of MMOs in my day but I have never been around for launch so this is going off of what other posters who have are saying.

A MMO is a totally different animal than a typical game with multiplayer functionality. Have you ever wondered why there has only been 1 MMO on the 360? (FFXIII back in 2006) These projects usually get canned because there isn't a market for it on counsel, but as we are seeing with Defiance, there is... Most gamers complaining on the forums are probably new to MMOs so you have to learn to take the good with the bad... There is going to be server downtime, but there will also be constant updates. Yes launch week is going to be rough, but it could apparently be much much worse.

Here is something to consider: Most MMOs have a subscription fee on top of a box purchase, where Defiance is FREE beyond the initial box purchase. This is not bad considering all of the money it costs just to keep the game running.

I was furious that the game wasn't working right away but after giving it some thought, I had to step back and realize that we just need to be patient. Think long term...We won't have to buy another gameon this generation of counsels, there will be so much to do in defiance. That sounds like a lot of entertainment for $60.

And its only day 3 ;)

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Originally Posted by Zyrlux

Yes. Bugs occur. Servers implode. These happen to small degrees and USE to be fixed within a night or two. This is day four.

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Not to argue semantics, but how is it day 4? As I recall, the servers went up around 6pm EDT on Monday, it hasn't even been live for 72 hours yet, and several major issues have been resolved.

Am I the only person who hasn't experienced these cataclysmic gameplay issues?

man if they only had a place to put those concerns.....oh wait they do! there are feedback areas all over. in game and on the forums. and while i realize you have issues im not seeing how this thread is supposed to make them better or get fixed faster considering you arent even using the places designed for the feedback WE ALL feel is necessary. its like having a multi page inventory, you would complain about how hard it is to access all of your gear easily. same goes with feedback. put it where it belongs or dont complain it takes longer to address when they have to hunt down your feedback amidst the sea of whiner threads.(not saying this thread feels like a normal whiner thread). im sure you are intelligent enought to understand my post judging by your thread. i hope all gets resolved for you and cant wait to see you in game.

i will give you credit, while i can see your frustration in your post at least you arent nerd ragin like a psycho.

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Originally Posted by Kaeleron

Am I the only person who hasn't experienced these cataclysmic gameplay issues?

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nope, definitely not. it's a case of the screaming minority. Not saying they don't matter, quite the opposite actually.

They all copied off of the first Massively Multiplayer game. Pong. 2 was massive back then and you used your bundle of pixels to send a smaller bundle of pixels towards an enemy bundle of pizels for glory and victory.

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Originally Posted by Ae86

They are having to fix issues across three platforms not just one.
Your whining is invalid.

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Trion really ought to have taken this into account and seen how well they could cope. Not expect customers who paid premium prioces thinking they would get service within that bracket to make allowances.

Still, I figure the game will recover. Not buying the doomsayers melodrama. But it is how Trion recovers that will make the difference. The OP had a point, some people appear to be at standstill and unable to play at all, or very little. Not a lot of fun.

Me, I entered a quest instance on I think day 2. And found my equiped weapons vanished. And with still no response to my ticket compounding a wariness to return to that mission with my main character, my fun is at a bit of a standstill too.

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Originally Posted by Lodestar

Trion really ought to have taken this into account and seen how well they could cope. Not expect customers who paid premium prioces thinking they would get service within that bracket to make allowances.

Still, I figure the game will recover. Not buying the doomsayers melodrama. But it is how Trion recovers that will make the difference. The OP had a point, some people appear to be at standstill and unable to play at all, or very little. Not a lot of fun.

Me, I entered a quest instance on I think day 2. And found my equiped weapons vanished. And with still no response to my ticket compounding a wariness to return to that mission with my main character, my fun is at a bit of a standstill too.

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Do as I do. When the servers are down or you're having issues.
Play a different game for awhile.

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Originally Posted by Zyrlux

snip

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First of all, can you do me and everyone else a favor and format your posts in such a way that it's not a giant block of text? It doesn't make me want to read what you say at all when it looks like that.

Second, what I was getting at with RIFT was while it did have problems at launch, there were daily patches that ironed them out rather quickly, it doesn't matter how the game was modeled. The bugs that were there got stamped out over the course of two weeks or so and the patching became less frequent. I didn't play TSW at launch, so I can't speak for that, but SWTOR was the same way as Rift(the bug fix patches were much less frequent though) and many triple A MMOs. They didn't have enough servers at launch ever while doing early access that was rolled out over the course of several days. There were login issues and even worse still, much of the dungeon content was still riddled with bugs months after release.

Can we not bring f2p games into this? Lots of them have successful launches, 95% of them though don't put up with a million plus people hammering their servers at one time though, so it's not really fair to say "well X had a great launch and didn't have server issues" when they're very clearly not experiencing the same amount of traffic that something like Defiance/RIFT/SWTOR/WoW did at launch.

There are a lot of things that need work, everyone knows that, Trion especially, since they've been told about it time and time again by alpha and beta testers alike. I have my gripes with the game, and I've experienced my fair share of bugs in launch, but I don't sit on the forums making threads about how awful the game is, I submit my feedback and move on and enjoy what I can from the game for now.

What a bunch of crybabies...

A lot of people are just going to say "Give it time, the servers will get fixed eventually". And you know what? That's true. Right now the problem is there's a TON of people who want to love the game trying to play and the game can't handle it. So what's going to happen is with all the lag and bugs and everything else, people are going to quit, which drops the server population til it's a number it can handle. Now, you'll get the dummies who say "Well good, we don't want those people anyway." Maybe you don't, but I bet you Trion does. For every 1 person who quits, he probably tells 3 friends the game is laggy/bugged/whatever and they don't buy it. Then those 3 friends tell 2 other friends the game is bad. So now that 1 person who bought the game and quit just cost Trion 9 additional sales, plus DLC sales and cash shop sales. And it's not just 1 person quitting, it's several hundred if not thousand. This is what kills games. They see 200,000 people playing on week 1, then 70,000 playing week 3 and decide to skip out on making extra content since fewer and fewer people are playing. So since there's no new content fewer and fewer people play which leads to even less content.

Also, why is it only video games get this "It'll be better later" mentality? What if you buy a car but can't drive it cause they didn't include the spark plugs or steering wheel but they say they'll mail it to you later? Then when they finally do you only get 3 spark plugs when you need 4 and the steering wheel has a big crack in it. Any other product you buy, you expect it to work 100% from day one. So why is it video games are okay to wait a week or more to work?

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Originally Posted by Karazykid

A lot of people are just going to say "Give it time, the servers will get fixed eventually". And you know what? That's true. Right now the problem is there's a TON of people who want to love the game trying to play and the game can't handle it. So what's going to happen is with all the lag and bugs and everything else, people are going to quit, which drops the server population til it's a number it can handle. Now, you'll get the dummies who say "Well good, we don't want those people anyway." Maybe you don't, but I bet you Trion does. For every 1 person who quits, he probably tells 3 friends the game is laggy/bugged/whatever and they don't buy it. Then those 3 friends tell 2 other friends the game is bad. So now that 1 person who bought the game and quit just cost Trion 9 additional sales, plus DLC sales and cash shop sales. And it's not just 1 person quitting, it's several hundred if not thousand. This is what kills games. They see 200,000 people playing on week 1, then 70,000 playing week 3 and decide to skip out on making extra content since fewer and fewer people are playing. So since there's no new content fewer and fewer people play which leads to even less content.

Also, why is it only video games get this "It'll be better later" mentality? What if you buy a car but can't drive it cause they didn't include the spark plugs or steering wheel but they say they'll mail it to you later? Then when they finally do you only get 3 spark plugs when you need 4 and the steering wheel has a big crack in it. Any other product you buy, you expect it to work 100% from day one. So why is it video games are okay to wait a week or more to work?

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Yea, because a car and a console MMOTPS are perfect comparable examples lol

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Originally Posted by scrawnypaleman

So, instead of the General Discussion forums being flooded with "THIS GAME IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD" threads, can we just start a single thread that anyone having issues can post in? I want to talk the the other people who AREN'T having problems. I want to discuss Arkfalls and things like that.

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It happens for EVERY MMO! Hell, Rift was one of the most smooth launches of recent history and people *****ed then. People complain on every MMO forum. It is like clockwork. So get used to these post.

People always find something to complain about....

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Originally Posted by Zyrlux

Yes. Bugs occur. Servers implode. These happen to small degrees and USE to be fixed within a night or two. This is day four. The same **** is happening. I've seen launches go over smoothly. Dofus for example, was released just under a decade ago, in 2006 if I'm not mistaken. Wanna know what happened on that launch? One day worth of laggy server issues. A few visual glitches. Some things that they thought would go over better but didn't. Wanna know why? Because it was in open beta for over 2 months. It wasn't even made by that good of a company AND it was their first game. With Wakfu's release, there weren't a whole lot of issues either. They gauged the estimated server capacity by holding an event. Anyone who logged in within hour x and hour x on day x got item x. They get a feel of their peak server capacity. It's about proper planning and execution and while Trion DID do well with Rift, it was mostly because almost all of Rift was damn near cloned from WoW. Down to numerical values and process. I have only played it once again since launch and that was only to see if they ever changed anything to separate the massive WoW similarity and from what I saw, no. Still looks like they were like hey, you know what would be cool? Then added those ideas and for the stuff they were like, well what about this? Well wow did pretty well with this, lets just do something like that. With Defiance being a seemingly made from scratch game, it takes a bit of work but they didn't give themselves much practice with Rift. Now, I never played secret wars because my comp couldn't handle it, but I heard good things about their launch. Old republic as well. I started to play for launch by my gfx card wasn't able to handle it. There are so many examples of the GOOD releases that you choose to ignore...for what end? "Oh, it's okay, it's just day four, bugs are to be expected." Well, so is action. So are patches. So is quality. So is, 'If they want their money, they will earn it.' And so far, they yet to seem to have earned it.

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If you think thats something, WoW had servers completely down for hours some nearly a day at launch. Copying the in game content of something doesnt mean you will have the same exact server lag issues and crashes, or lack there of. Also everyone is on one server which means the mass influx of players at launch and possible problems from diverse scenarios and comp set ups is going to take more than a day or two to get "ironed" out.

Did the game release earlier than they said it would? Cause if not it hasnt even been 72 hours(3 days) and everyones saying day 4 o_o

For the most part i enjoy the game as ive been looking for a mmo shooter type since way back in the days of Tabula Rasa if anyone remembers that.

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Originally Posted by CaLaMaSaBy 360

Yea, because a car and a console MMOTPS are perfect comparable examples lol

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No, of course not. :)
But your attitude towards money you spent should be the same. You see, to many of us 50 Eur is a lot of money to spend for a bad buy.
Is defiance a bad product? No, but many are not sure it's good either and many of us can't get their money back, but would like to see this game becoming better instead. Hence a criticism since it's the most important feature for improvement.

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Originally Posted by Lodestar

Trion really ought to have taken this into account and seen how well they could cope. Not expect customers who paid premium prioces thinking they would get service within that bracket to make allowances.

Still, I figure the game will recover. Not buying the doomsayers melodrama. But it is how Trion recovers that will make the difference. The OP had a point, some people appear to be at standstill and unable to play at all, or very little. Not a lot of fun.

Me, I entered a quest instance on I think day 2. And found my equiped weapons vanished. And with still no response to my ticket compounding a wariness to return to that mission with my main character, my fun is at a bit of a standstill too.

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Exactly, the recovery is the most important part. Just look at SWTOR, people were disappointed with that at launch, then there was the Ilum fiasco, and all that would have been fine if Bioware had handled it properly, it took them 12 months to recover from launch, and the game still has quite a few "quality of life" issues people have wanted fixed since launch.

OP consider yourself lucky, i can't even DL the client.

I have tried over 12 times to DL this game, but because there is no working resume function i have to restart the entire DL. This is preposterous and should have been remedied after the beta and before the release.

I played Rift and have to say that customer support from Trion and bug fixing was second to none. I really cant understand the wall of silence that is going on from them regarding Defiance. I have sat trying to finish a couple of the quests without success and these are major storyline quests! I have fallen through textures, not to mention what other posters have experienced. It really isn't good enough Trion.

The whole thing smacks of trying to hit the TV series deadline or some other internal politics because they have proved they know how to deal with their customers and software issues with their other games. Perhaps they have over stretched themselves and don't have the resources? Whatever it is someone needs to come out and tell us something before Defiance nose dives even before the TV series starts.

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Originally Posted by Hawty

If you think thats something, WoW had servers completely down for hours some nearly a day at launch. Copying the in game content of something doesnt mean you will have the same exact server lag issues and crashes, or lack there of. Also everyone is on one server which means the mass influx of players at launch and possible problems from diverse scenarios and comp set ups is going to take more than a day or two to get "ironed" out.

Did the game release earlier than they said it would? Cause if not it hasnt even been 72 hours(3 days) and everyones saying day 4 o_o

For the most part i enjoy the game as ive been looking for a mmo shooter type since way back in the days of Tabula Rasa if anyone remembers that.

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The game was live sometime just prior to ~6:00PM central daylight(in the US) on April 1. So yeah, we're coming up on 4 days here in about 8 hours or so.

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Originally Posted by CaLaMaSaBy 360

Yea, because a car and a console MMOTPS are perfect comparable examples lol

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You do realize that whenever someone uses another MMO comparison they are griefed by saying that Defiance is not like [insert other MMO here]. Regardless of your opinion, the launch was certainly not a model of success for any product.

I have alot of doubt about you that you played 10 years in mmo because I beta tested from meridian59 to all mmo currently in alpha/beta/gold release and defiance might have issues but nothing like WoW/FF14/DCUO/STO/CO had.I can name even worse games if you want but it looks like you are very experience but surely not in mmorpg sorry bud.

And yes patching bugs takes time and trion does it faster than anyone go look at rift they do hotfixes pretty quickly well even more than SoE and Blizzard

The recent cyber attacks against a major spam reporter that are causing slow down across the whole net arent helping matters either. Seen the report just this morning. Started Early tuesday.

Why is there a norm with allowing an mmo game to fail there launch, why do we accept this and let it slide. I haven't seen a change in online game launches for a while, it seems to be getting worse, the latest fiasco would be simcity, horrible.

I love post like these people who complain about the game and try to sound like they know what they are talking about. They always have a tendency to post thing like I have been playing these games for so and so years blah blah blah.

Ok let's look at it. At launch we had crippling lag and system crashes. They applied a couple of hotfixes. Those hotfixes caused the issues we see today. Because the issues I see on day 3 were not present at launch and only appeared after the hotfixes.

Trion is working hard. I bet they are all running on minimal sleep working there ***** off to fix these issues. That's all you can really expect from a game company.

At least they are trying to fix the issue and not giving you the famous "we are looking into it" like wow. Anyone remember vanish on rogues in wow not working for what almost a year after I think it was the 1.3 patch the weapon normalization where they broke vanish. Then told everyone we are looking into it over a year later the we are looking into it became "sorry working as intended"

I've been through several mmo launches not one went smooth. There is always a process of launch, patch bugs, patch what the last patch broke. Takes about a week or two for the servers kinks to be ironed out. Every single mmo has been this way. Wow was lag filled for months where you could not loot quest items. You know what we did reported it and moved on.
DCUO launch was a mess. Lag, crashes, rollbacks and nonworking instances go into an instance loads forever and bam your at start screen.
Dungeons and dragons online non of the instances worked. And crippling lag.
Age of Conan again lag broken quests and people abusing glitch and instant killing in pvp for weeks.

There is always a breaking in process in mmos, at least they are working there ***** off to fix these and not just sitting back. There are a few dev posts to keep you informed. Yes they are not going to update you all day long as they are busy fixing. But at least there is some communication from Trion. And not one of those "we are looking into it" wow crap responses.

It took about a week for any of the above games to be playable. If these issues are happening a week from launch go complain on the forums then.

There have been a few moment of being able to play Defiance and when it is the game is amazing. If its not you wouldn't be here whining about not being able to play it. Give them the time they need to fix these issues.