Defiant Few Weapons are Lazy , No Skill Weapons

sigh :: your wrong. about people being 3K by the time thy get them. iv seen players as low as ego 250 with them.

reason behind it. is theres nothing stoping them from crossing that bridge. also becuse thy have free raign of the whole map its not that hard to stalk higher ego players shoot a single enamy that a highe ego player is in an area that there not ment to be in yet. and get the kill contracts for the DF rep. also . with a hand full of bits. you can buy a bribe for any faction . so aginan another easy way to get the rep to get the gun.

i could care less about skill level for the weapons useage. but i will say out right. its END game content NOT noobie content.

it needs to stay as END game content. and to do that that means thy need to reinstate the monolith on the bridge. and thy need to ego lock them.

its the only way to pervent people that are not ready for the weapon from geting it. otherwise we will keep haveing the same issues we have now. unskilled players that know nothing about how to play the game let alone have skills at all in how to use the weapon the right ways.

it also adds in a sub par facter into the diffaculty of the game its self .

the CF is an easy button . low ego player gets hold of one. thy can sweep the game without ever realy haveing to work for it. all reasons above should be more then enough of an argument.

but as said before. CFs are geting a nurf stick slaped over them. along with the BMG so. the issues that the CF brings about . wont be a problum anymore.

Most times in a game when you give a new guy a powerful weapon it stunts their growth because they become completely reliant on that power which unfortunately I have noticed more and more often lately.

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Originally Posted by JadedSinn

sigh :: your wrong. about people being 3K by the time thy get them. iv seen players as low as ego 250 with them.

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You misinterpret what I said. I said getting the currency to buy a good quality one just using the “mark of the defiant” dailies they would not get it much before 3k. Of course that depends on how much they play, if only an hour or so a day they would take much longer to advance in EGO so they could build up the daily coinage before they got very far in experience though it would still take a long time.

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Originally Posted by JadedSinn

reason behind it. is theres nothing stoping them from crossing that bridge. also becuse thy have free raign of the whole map its not that hard to stalk higher ego players shoot a single enamy that a highe ego player is in an area that there not ment to be in yet. and get the kill contracts for the DF rep. also . with a hand full of bits. you can buy a bribe for any faction . so aginan another easy way to get the rep to get the gun.

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There is not supposed to be anything stopping people from crossing the bridge. The open map is supposed to be just that: open. This is not WoW, it is not supposed to have a million unlockable maps, just one common map for all (not counting co-ops of course).

It is true that the contracts do not require the kills to be solo affairs, Defiance is not an old single computer game like pre-network DOOM and is meant to have a lot of people contributing their firepower to events. Just being there in the fight proves one can handle being in the area fighting. As for the bits part, F2P people are not known to be big spenders. If you took a survey I am sure you will find that the majority did not get their DF guns with bribes.

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Originally Posted by JadedSinn

i could care less about skill level for the weapons useage. but i will say out right. its END game content NOT noobie content.

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Your not caring about player skill is obvious, you seem to be more concerned about 'unworthy noobs' poaching what a few players (and not the company) consider to be an exclusive privilege of longtimers. Trion obviously does not consider them “end game” weapons so why should anyone else? Especially since there is no endgame in a sandbox format game. Look the term up if you do not believe me.

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Originally Posted by JadedSinn

it needs to stay as END game content. and to do that that means thy need to reinstate the monolith on the bridge. and thy need to ego lock them.

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Do try to keep up with the times, Defiance is not an old linear game design. Once again there is not an endgame, there is only dynamic content that is designed to be replayable.

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Originally Posted by JadedSinn

its the only way to pervent people that are not ready for the weapon from geting it. otherwise we will keep haveing the same issues we have now. unskilled players that know nothing about how to play the game let alone have skills at all in how to use the weapon the right ways.

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Interesting how in one paragraph you say you do not care about player skill yet say in the same post say that “lowbies” should not be south of the bridge or equipped with DF weapons because they do not have the skill to do it right. Make up your mind.

Again, the company obviously has a different opinion or they would not have done things the way they have. Trion has shown that they know what a sandbox game is and produced a very good one. Yes, it does have its problems, but it is exploring relatively new territory as far as MMO gaming goes so a few snags have to be expected.

What exactly do you consider “unskilled”? Reasonable proficiency with any of the weapons does not take long to acquire, it all works on the same principle. All it really takes is observing the flight characteristics of the projectile while shooting and finding out about the quirks that may be different from other aiming shooters like the reload-to-detonate convention. Skill in fighting does not always equate to EGO level.

Perhaps instead of unskilled you mean uncultured? People usually take longer to learn the culture of a game than they do the combat system and stand out as different from the in-crowd for a while after they have the combat system mastered. It leads to demeaning stereotypes and prejudice against them, like the 'noob' stereotype.

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Originally Posted by JadedSinn

it also adds in a sub par facter into the diffaculty of the game its self .

the CF is an easy button . low ego player gets hold of one. thy can sweep the game without ever realy haveing to work for it. all reasons above should be more then enough of an argument.

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You must have vastly different DF weapons than the ones in the Defiant Few vendor if yours can do all that. Even if orange DF weapons with all orange mods could do that (which I doubt) the low to mid EGO players are unlikely to have them and use mostly blues or greens with only part of the mods slots full (and green or blue or the occasional purple mod in them). The weapons add some interesting twists to the mechanics and the Bloodhound can be used almost like a crude tab-target weapon in some circumstances but they are not superweapons, especially after all the nerfs they already got inflicted upon them.

A good pulsar will usually chew through most units much faster than the DF weapons for instance. For that matter I can take down mobs just as quickly and easily with my flare pistol most of the time (but I like the Crimefighter as a change of pace).

Bloodhound and Gang Buster are only “lazy weapons” if they are used in a lazy manner by people who are too lazy to explore their potential, and that has its own penalty built right in since they would not get the best performance that way. Used in an unimaginative knee-jerk way they are actually rather humdrum weapons and the user would be better off with something else.

Calling Crimefighter a “lazy weapon” is just laughable. It is not as easy to hit with as a flatter trajectory weapon with faster projectiles and its area of effect is not big enough to simply hit the general area of a target and get good results like a detonator can do.

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Originally Posted by JadedSinn

but as said before. CFs are geting a nurf stick slaped over them. along with the BMG so. the issues that the CF brings about . wont be a problum anymore.

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They already got the nurf stick, (and half the tree it came from as well) not long after they were introduced. They are not superweapons to begin with so there is not much more they could do to them without making them completely ineffective. Besides, from what the Devs have said in the forum they are looking into adjusting them to make it less likely to swamp the physics on the game box machines, not into nerfing them again. As for the BMG, from what I heard they are more likely to get a slight buff (and a toning down of the glow a bit) than a nerf. Only time will tell.

Actually there IS supposed to be a Monolith on the Bridge preventing people from getting to San Fran before they do the mission to blow it up. However since impatient people WHINED that it prevented them from playing anywhere in the game without jumping to a friend, the Monolith got removed. They SHOULD put it back!

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Originally Posted by Chris Robet

Most times in a game when you give a new guy a powerful weapon it stunts their growth because they become completely reliant on that power which unfortunately I have noticed more and more often lately.

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You are correct my friend new players nowadays just get a CF and run around the server asking high ego players to give them scrip. Very unfortunate they're missing out on a great gaming experiance.

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Originally Posted by Atticus Batman

Actually there IS supposed to be a Monolith on the Bridge preventing people from getting to San Fran before they do the mission to blow it up. However since impatient people WHINED that it prevented them from playing anywhere in the game without jumping to a friend, the Monolith got removed. They SHOULD put it back!

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It is there for the mission, there is no reason to have it there at other times. It would violate the best practices principle for a sandbox and endanger the game with player dropout from boredom. F2P is a different, much more volitile market than subscription.

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Originally Posted by Atticus Batman

Actually there IS supposed to be a Monolith on the Bridge preventing people from getting to San Fran before they do the mission to blow it up. However since impatient people WHINED that it prevented them from playing anywhere in the game without jumping to a friend, the Monolith got removed. They SHOULD put it back!

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its ok bats. i beleave hes a F2P player. he will never know the game as entamently as you i or many of the other vets will. he can preach sandbox all he wants.

its not going to change me veiw point or anyone elses. about the fact that it was there. and then removed becuse whiners demand it taken out becuse it was " stoping them from entering SF " witch was uptill the removel of the monolith . locked to only people that compleated the stroy missions in order up to the point where thy had to destroy it.

so i stand still saying

1: DF weapons need to be ego locked till players get to ego level 3000

2: the monolith needs to be put back on the bridge and people need to start doing the stroy missions LIKE the game is ment to be played befor thy start galavanting around the world going places there not ready for.

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Originally Posted by Yakalfurd

You are correct my friend new players nowadays just get a CF and run around the server asking high ego players to give them scrip. Very unfortunate they're missing out on a great gaming experiance.

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it dose stunt there growth in this game alot. anyone ego 100 and up can get there hand on a CF it does single shot instakill damage charged or not charged. you have a 1 in i beleave 4 chance if you save rep for it to get an oj one , and once a person gets hold of the oj one be it bio or rad thy carry that thing with them though the game untill thy reach ego 5k+ thy dont exspand out from that gun till eather there finaly boarded useing it to stomp though every enamy in there path. OR finaly notice. that theres better guns out there.

and with being able to nearly solo every mission in this game. take a CF with you and you can kill any boss in the game you want. farly easy

befor the CF ever came into this game . people would get stuck on joe. once the CF came into the game. iv never seen a noob/lowbi post here on the forums about needing help with any of the bosses.

that right there says alot. befor thes weapons came into the game people needed to work as a team or bring in a higher ego player to help them to beat the bosses in this game.

as soon as the weapons came out and F2P launched. this became a mute point. no one seeks help with in game bosses anymore becuse thy are steam rolling them with a weapon that shouldnt be in there hands yet. :: shrug ::

devs will fix this soon enough. to many people are agenst the CF now aday. due to the lag issues it makes. and also the fact that its turning this game into a cake walk for the lower ego players. it will be take care of in its own time. and when it is. theres going to be alot of hate on the forum for it being changed.

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Originally Posted by JadedSinn

it dose stunt there growth in this game alot. anyone ego 100 and up can get there hand on a CF it does single shot instakill damage charged or not charged. you have a 1 in i beleave 4 chance if you save rep for it to get an oj one , and once a person gets hold of the oj one be it bio or rad thy carry that thing with them though the game untill thy reach ego 5k+ thy dont exspand out from that gun till eather there finaly boarded useing it to stomp though every enamy in there path. OR finaly notice. that theres better guns out there.
{SNIP}
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Actually Sinny-bun-bun, you are slightly wrong. Let me point out something I see a lot, on Xbox. Newb A gets a decent CF at say ego 120. He never bothers ego upgrading it, because he is new and doesn't know better. At ego 400 he finally asks why his gun doesn't seem as powerful as it did when he was ego 120. After he is told, instead of spending the AF, he goes back to the vendor and gets another CF. He then turns around and gives it to a friend or new guy at ERC. Now player B is only ego 50, but happens to be lucky enough to have just enough AF to batch downgrade it to his level. Now thanks to Newb A, he and Newb B, BOTH have CFs. Then once newb B has enough Defiant Few rep, he buys a CF box, and gives or sells his old one for real cheap to Newb 3 who only has 10k scrip, but Newb B is fine with it, since other Newbs sell their gear for so cheap that none of them realize they can get more for it. So now thanks to Newb A doing a replace and pass to Newb B, who then does so to Newb C, 3 have CFs at a low ego, and it just continues.

One night I literally watched in zone chat as a CF passed down 5 times in my 2 hours of Game time. It was easy to know because I was in a real quiet chat shard. So all that was in chat was "hey I just got a new Crimefighter. Who wants my ego 105?" I saw that same thing 5 times, and a newer guy always bought or traded for it. So in those 2 hours that one Newer player's gun was replaced 5 times with a higher ego, and the lowest one put into the hands of Newb 6.

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Originally Posted by Atticus Batman

Actually Sinny-bun-bun, you are slightly wrong. Let me point out something I see a lot, on Xbox. Newb A gets a decent CF at say ego 120. He never bothers ego upgrading it, because he is new and doesn't know better. At ego 400 he finally asks why his gun doesn't seem as powerful as it did when he was ego 120. After he is told, instead of spending the AF, he goes back to the vendor and gets another CF. He then turns around and gives it to a friend or new guy at ERC. Now player B is only ego 50, but happens to be lucky enough to have just enough AF to batch downgrade it to his level. Now thanks to Newb A, he and Newb B, BOTH have CFs. Then once newb B has enough Defiant Few rep, he buys a CF box, and gives or sells his old one for real cheap to Newb 3 who only has 10k scrip, but Newb B is fine with it, since other Newbs sell their gear for so cheap that none of them realize they can get more for it. So now thanks to Newb A doing a replace and pass to Newb B, who then does so to Newb C, 3 have CFs at a low ego, and it just continues.

One night I literally watched in zone chat as a CF passed down 5 times in my 2 hours of Game time. It was easy to know because I was in a real quiet chat shard. So all that was in chat was "hey I just got a new Crimefighter. Who wants my ego 105?" I saw that same thing 5 times, and a newer guy always bought or traded for it. So in those 2 hours that one Newer player's gun was replaced 5 times with a higher ego, and the lowest one put into the hands of Newb 6.

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still :P it stunts there growth becuse thy can keep geting there hands on one . :P you made my point in a better veiw lol

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Originally Posted by JadedSinn

still :P it stunts there growth becuse thy can keep geting there hands on one . :P you made my point in a better veiw lol

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Definitely. It stunts the growth a lot. However I am fine with people using whatever they want, even if they spam CF bullets that bounce and miss, or spam a BMG because they are incapable of firing a gun. I just hope the frame rate issues caused by them are fixed soon. As well as the toning down of BMG beams. Not sure I care about the BMG damage buff that Rashere is looking into. However I would like them to tone down the dumb bubble effect, or listen to whoever suggested it give us the buff wings instead of a bubble.

Variety is the spice of life.
Sometimes I enjoy using a bolt action sniper rifle for popping headshots while bunny hopping.
Oh the pleasure of PWNING with DEMMADSKILZ.

Other times I want to play a more relaxing game.
Click the "I win" button a bit while I pootle around massacring everything in sight.


The double barrelled shotgun is the only weapon in the game I haven't really enjoy using.

Ok so would it make sense for the game to make you go through a weapon tutorial before actually starting missions or arkfalls? Make em use every weapon and master them by doing quick challenges. Something that could help newer players? Just spitballing here but it seems like a good idea but.....tear away.

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Originally Posted by Atticus Batman

Actually Sinny-bun-bun, you are slightly wrong. Let me point out something I see a lot, on Xbox. Newb A gets a decent CF at say ego 120. He never bothers ego upgrading it, because he is new and doesn't know better. At ego 400 he finally asks why his gun doesn't seem as powerful as it did when he was ego 120. After he is told, instead of spending the AF, he goes back to the vendor and gets another CF. He then turns around and gives it to a friend or new guy at ERC. Now player B is only ego 50, but happens to be lucky enough to have just enough AF to batch downgrade it to his level. Now thanks to Newb A, he and Newb B, BOTH have CFs. Then once newb B has enough Defiant Few rep, he buys a CF box, and gives or sells his old one for real cheap to Newb 3 who only has 10k scrip, but Newb B is fine with it, since other Newbs sell their gear for so cheap that none of them realize they can get more for it. So now thanks to Newb A doing a replace and pass to Newb B, who then does so to Newb C, 3 have CFs at a low ego, and it just continues.

One night I literally watched in zone chat as a CF passed down 5 times in my 2 hours of Game time. It was easy to know because I was in a real quiet chat shard. So all that was in chat was "hey I just got a new Crimefighter. Who wants my ego 105?" I saw that same thing 5 times, and a newer guy always bought or traded for it. So in those 2 hours that one Newer player's gun was replaced 5 times with a higher ego, and the lowest one put into the hands of Newb 6.

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This scenario doesn't just apply to the DF weapons. We just went through 3 special events in the last 2 months that dropped named weapons including the SS event where everyone had the opportunity to get 3 if the completed the contracts. Use the same logic but instead move the weapon up the ego chain. An E500 player pulls a Dancing Lady and sells it to an E1500 for an OJ shield and 1 mil in scrip. E500 takes that scrip and buys an OJ high DPS Tachmag with T3 mods and a Canker. Now, at the rate the E500 is acquiring XP the player will never earn enough ArkForge to keep it upgraded so when they outgrow it they sell them to lower ego players.
Now imagine if they pulled a Golden Rings, Leaping Lord, or Drummer as well. Imagine if they pulled a Carving Knife or Feaster because either one of them would fetch 3 - 8 mill in scrip from a E5000. High ego players covet these weapons and have the scrip and ArkForge to make it happen because after you max out XP you spend a lot less of both and it just accrues.

That being said, my belief is that the new players we are discussing were never going to be serious players in the first place. They only started playing because it was free and they are just waiting for the next shiny thing to come along. Some of them are going to engage in trading because it makes them feel important, but now that that special events are over and there is no more special gear that can be easily acquired they will get bored and move on.

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Originally Posted by Burned In Effigy

Ok so would it make sense for the game to make you go through a weapon tutorial before actually starting missions or arkfalls? Make em use every weapon and master them by doing quick challenges. Something that could help newer players? Just spitballing here but it seems like a good idea but.....tear away.

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New players already get a weapon tutorial in the training area north of the main map. Having a some tips and tricks in the mostly useless help menu might not be a bad thing though.

Having a challenge style thing to train on every weapon would be tedious so most people would ignore them anyway. On top of that it would not fit well with the "long satisfying hunt" concept that Trion has stated is one of the big priorities, they want players to be curious about an unfamiliar weapon and find out what it is like on their own.

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Originally Posted by Atticus Batman

Definitely. It stunts the growth a lot. However I am fine with people using whatever they want, even if they spam CF bullets that bounce and miss, or spam a BMG because they are incapable of firing a gun. I just hope the frame rate issues caused by them are fixed soon. As well as the toning down of BMG beams. Not sure I care about the BMG damage buff that Rashere is looking into. However I would like them to tone down the dumb bubble effect, or listen to whoever suggested it give us the buff wings instead of a bubble.

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It only "stunts the growth" of those who are too unimaginative to explore the possibilities of the weapons and too incurious to want to try new things. Of course that kind of person probably would not be playing Defiance much if at all so it is unlikely to present much of a problem.

Most (I will not say "all" as absolutes are bandied about too much lately) people who use BMGs are capable of using other weapons and simply choose to use it.

While I do agree that restricting the df weapons to only low egoers so that they have a chance against a 5k for more than 5 seconds as I've seen in duels & reduce the lag when cf's are used in expert co-ops lagging everyone to the point that all dc many will be using the lower threat coop to be able to continue to use them.

Furthermore there are those who are wanting to complete the defiant few pursuits if Trion did restrict them then more purchasables will need to be added to make up for that