All MMO'S seem to have one thing in common and I'm kinda curious why?

Let me preface this with the acknowledgement that I have been extremely lucky. No real issues, got my preorder stuff, very few lag spikes, overall smooth gameplay. I'm happy with my purchase and look forward to future exploring.
Having said that my question is more centered around all MMO's that I'm familiar with. I've been playing videogames since I could hold a controller (I'm 32 now) only in the world of MMO's do we open ourselves to such frustrations. I've been apart of quite a few betas and many more day 1 launches of these beasts. (WOW, Age of Conan, City of Heroes/Villains, DCUO,Defiance,etc)
They all have the same issues, server problems, lag, bugs, you get the idea. Everyone who is there on day 1 always fall into 1 of 2 camps

1: Ahhh!!! These bugs and problems were in alpha they didn't fix anything rabble rabble cancel my order give me my money back hand me my pitch fork

2: Patience is the key, MMO's are always like this NOOB, this isn't that bad you should have played [insert failed MMO here] they're working hard blah blah

I can see the 4 am posts from Dev's and know they are doing what they can as fast as possible and I appreciate the info when they can give it as I'm sure everyone does. My beef isn't with Trion or any one entity but the system as a whole. Now I don't program computers and don't pretend to know more than I actually do about anything but one thing is abundantly clear :MMO's are evil. Not because they suck your life or alienate you from the sun (seriously all you guys with 1500 ego on day 3 go outside for 10 minutes) but because they always fail to live up to the back of the box and we accept it.
Sure in a week or a month everything will be working as intended and the developers hope that enough people spread the word about how good it is or wait patiently until they can see the world created for them but it's never day 1 and we as the consumer accept it. Sure take my preorder I've always wanted a $60 dollar frisbee. Ohh but if I don't preorder I'll miss out on this cool weapon that will be obsolete after the first mission. So you wait patiently for the game to come, slap the disc in on launch day and either see the world stutter before you or close it's doors with an error before your journey begins.
Every.....Single.....Time..... So whats the problem? Did the developers all run out of money hurrying a product early? Did they not do a long enough Alpha/Beta? Do they just work better under the pressure of thousands clamoring for their money back? All I know is this: The Definition of crazy is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different outcome. So slap your preorder money on the table, make an acount on the forums and choose your side because as long as we all allow companies to sell us expensive frisbee's you'll find yourself in one camp or the other. TLDR

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Originally Posted by MoralyChalenged

Let me preface this with the acknowledgement that I have been extremely lucky. No real issues, got my preorder stuff, very few lag spikes, overall smooth gameplay. I'm happy with my purchase and look forward to future exploring.
Having said that my question is more centered around all MMO's that I'm familiar with. I've been playing videogames since I could hold a controller (I'm 32 now) only in the world of MMO's do we open ourselves to such frustrations. I've been apart of quite a few betas and many more day 1 launches of these beasts. (WOW, Age of Conan, City of Heroes/Villains, DCUO,Defiance,etc)
They all have the same issues, server problems, lag, bugs, you get the idea. Everyone who is there on day 1 always fall into 1 of 2 camps

1: Ahhh!!! These bugs and problems were in alpha they didn't fix anything rabble rabble cancel my order give me my money back hand me my pitch fork

2: Patience is the key, MMO's are always like this NOOB, this isn't that bad you should have played [insert failed MMO here] they're working hard blah blah

I can see the 4 am posts from Dev's and know they are doing what they can as fast as possible and I appreciate the info when they can give it as I'm sure everyone does. My beef isn't with Trion or any one entity but the system as a whole. Now I don't program computers and don't pretend to know more than I actually do about anything but one thing is abundantly clear :MMO's are evil. Not because they suck your life or alienate you from the sun (seriously all you guys with 1500 ego on day 3 go outside for 10 minutes) but because they always fail to live up to the back of the box and we accept it.
Sure in a week or a month everything will be working as intended and the developers hope that enough people spread the word about how good it is or wait patiently until they can see the world created for them but it's never day 1 and we as the consumer accept it. Sure take my preorder I've always wanted a $60 dollar frisbee. Ohh but if I don't preorder I'll miss out on this cool weapon that will be obsolete after the first mission. So you wait patiently for the game to come, slap the disc in on launch day and either see the world stutter before you or close it's doors with an error before your journey begins.
Every.....Single.....Time..... So whats the problem? Did the developers all run out of money hurrying a product early? Did they not do a long enough Alpha/Beta? Do they just work better under the pressure of thousands clamoring for their money back? All I know is this: The Definition of crazy is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different outcome. So slap your preorder money on the table, make an acount on the forums and choose your side because as long as we all allow companies to sell us expensive frisbee's you'll find yourself in one camp or the other. TLDR

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Alpha = testing and concept adjustment
Beta = testing final product and polishing for retail release
Launch = live release client

Defiance launched with mixture of an Alpha/Beta client.

All problems begin there.

I appreciate the insight it seems plausible for sure but then do they all do this?

So much truth here. gj

Considering how terrible the beta was on the first day, compared to how it was in the actual game, I'd say it was a major improvement. There's still a fair amount of issues, some of which were in the beta, but not fixed. That's what bugs me most: the issues(though small) that were brought up in the beta but weren't fixed. The server crashes and such are annoying but it's a huge game with however-many players so it's fine. I'll admit that I think it may have been rushed and had it not, maybe some of the problems occuring wouldn't be so persistent.

Yes, they all do this. Quite honestly, Alpha testing is really the only testing that ever happens. Beta testing these days is nothing more than a free trial to get people to purchase a game.

Some launch with a slew of problems, some launch with minor problems, none launch flawlessly. It is what it is and those of us that have played these since the beginning know this and expect it. I'm not saying it doesn't irritate the players, but it isn't going to change.

I actually bought this because I was sick of MMO's and the rotten communities that have developed within them. I bought this on the PS3 to have a little fun and to be quite honest, the lack of the usual MMO chat system has made the game fun. I'm so sick of the entitlement kiddies complaining left and right about everything under the sun because their mommy told them they were special. MMO's have turned from a tight community type of game to a mainstream chat room filled with garbage.

Blame the players for the state MMO's are in. Everyone wants more more more faster faster faster that no matter what the developers do, good or bad, it will never be enough.

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Originally Posted by MoralyChalenged

I appreciate the insight it seems plausible for sure but then do they all do this?

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Yes this is always a factor for simple reasons. No matter how much you test polish and make love to a game nothing. And I do repeat nothing gets you ready for what might happen when you have 100k people on a server under load. Codes can do strange things when you got combos that most people wouldnt dream of happening all at once and so on. This can make code that works fine do things you never would have thought from flashing locking up acting on other code you name it. That is the nature of the beast in wanting a MMO. I have spent 20 years programming have worked for several companies and not once on a launch of MMO titles I have worked with have I not been shocked how when human factor comes into play How common and well tested code can turn into demon from the 9 hells out for revenge lol.

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Originally Posted by PixieStix

Yes, they all do this. Quite honestly, Alpha testing is really the only testing that ever happens. Beta testing these days is nothing more than a free trial to get people to purchase a game.

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My Thoughts exactly. When did Beta become a pre launcher/Advertiser. :(

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Originally Posted by PixieStix

Yes, they all do this. Quite honestly, Alpha testing is really the only testing that ever happens. Beta testing these days is nothing more than a free trial to get people to purchase a game.

Some launch with a slew of problems, some launch with minor problems, none launch flawlessly. It is what it is and those of us that have played these since the beginning know this and expect it. I'm not saying it doesn't irritate the players, but it isn't going to change.

I actually bought this because I was sick of MMO's and the rotten communities that have developed within them. I bought this on the PS3 to have a little fun and to be quite honest, the lack of the usual MMO chat system has made the game fun. I'm so sick of the entitlement kiddies complaining left and right about everything under the sun because their mommy told them they were special. MMO's have turned from a tight community type of game to a mainstream chat room filled with garbage.

Blame the players for the state MMO's are in. Everyone wants more more more faster faster faster that no matter what the developers do, good or bad, it will never be enough.

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Agreed 100%, specially with the last statement. The newer gen of players is always in a rush to get everything right off the bat. Back when Everquest and Ultima Online where your only options, you would spends MONTHS trying to clear a range of levels. They had HUGE maps, EQ's zones were a lot bigger than they are now. We had to travel across terrain that was perilous and full of mobs. We had community ran hot spots in the world that have long since been replaced by the creation of Auction Houses. In Bristle Bane server in EQ, we had The Tunnel, a place in East Common Lands where people would gather to chat, trade and help out. You were being chased by mobs, you ran to Tunnel and hopped to be saved on time.

In FFXI we had to rely on Chocobo runs to get almost anywhere and it made it fun, your party literally went on an expedition to get to where you wanted to go. Making the trek alone was tough, and very unlikely for you to make it through. Even if you were able to port, you had to go and search the land for the Kraigs and acquire its crystal, it wasn't spoon fed to you, you have to know where you were going. Jobs are unlocked by missions that sometimes required a team to complete, all these things were FUN but they had to come to an end.

The modern gamer is always in a rush and are vocal and then devs think that what they complain about needs to be fixed. Sometimes it works while other times, you get Star Wars Galaxy. The game drastically changed for the worse based on the few that spoke up. Developers should keep in mind that those that talk are usually a minority and while the ones who truly enjoy the game are QUIETLY PLAYING THE GAME. I really hope that Trion doesn't loose track of their vision.

Cheers to all of you enjoying the game.

Because MMO's {{{CAN}}} be patched and updated immediately after they launch them. And there are too many anomalies for them to be able to work out all the issues before releasing it.

Single player games "HAVE" to be working when they go out the door....

An MMO cannot be tested again and again and again - with the number of players that is going to be playing it... Alpha and beta can only give them a quick look at how the code is going to work.

A single player game can be tested over and over and over.... 1 player.


It's really not hard to understand.

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Originally Posted by Tenbears

Because MMO's {{{CAN}}} be patched and updated immediately after they launch them. And there are too many anomalies for them to be able to work out all the issues before releasing it.

Single player games "HAVE" to be working when they go out the door....

An MMO cannot be tested again and again and again - with the number of players that is going to be playing it... Alpha and beta can only give them a quick look at how the code is going to work.

A single player game can be tested over and over and over.... 1 player.


It's really not hard to understand.

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I think it's going the other way though. More games getting day 1 patches whether or not they're single player. I understand as technology advances and lines of code get more and more complicated there's bound to be more and creative bugs but I still wonder why the gaming community just accepts it. Sure we ***** and moan on the forums but thats about it. They still have our money no matter if you can play or not.