The Blast Rifle. Another gun that needed to be trifled with.

Obviously me and nef are playing two separate games...

To start, I wanted balance for the Surgebolter as well, and how it was fixed I was happy with. It SHOULDN'T have had the hip fire accuracy it had, and was eventually fixed. You wanted to bump it back down to the poor damage output it started with, because as with this you said it had its uses. The Bloodhound needed balancing, that I agreed with, but the "fix" they did on it made it completely unappealing to the PvE players. Crimefighters I won't comment on as I have never used one because it causes me to lag when others use them. The blast rifles were scrap for lack of a better term for a reason. It not only consumed 3x the amount of ammo than the other Assault rifles, but it took 3x the amount of time to drop an enemy before this patch. Now it drops the enemies just as fast as the other types of AR's. In my book its balanced.

Look I get it, they neglect PvP. They don't take into consideration on how balancing weapons for PvE will affect PvP. It sucks, but its just the by-product of an underlying issue with PvP. As someone else pointed out, people will use them because they are the new hot item for PvP. Eventually someone will figure out countermeasures for it, and things will stabilize. Calm down dude. Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they are on the other extreme side of the issue, nor does it mean they have ulterior motives or likes noob tubing in PvP. In fact almost every clan I've been in had or has it as a rule to not noob tube or cloak in PvP.

Chill...

http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyM...cool-party.jpg

Some people won't be happy till the next jackpots a catapult or pea shooter.

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Originally Posted by Rashere

I mentioned this elsewhere, but the blast rifle (and mazu blast rifle) now does about the same DPS as an AR, comparing baseline weapons obviously as mods/bonuses affect things. DPS accounts for everything on the weapon: base damage, reload time, magazine size, fire rate, burst count, etc. That's assuming every round is hitting the target, which is a bit harder to do with the blast rifle than an AR.

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Blast rifle buff broke PvP.

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Originally Posted by ShatterST4R

Blast rifle buff broke PvP.

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Pvp was broke way before blast rifles. Way. Before.

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Originally Posted by Rashere

It's easier to hit the target, but harder to hit with all 3 rounds per burst which is the key point. The damage assumes all 3 rounds are landing, compared to a single round from an AR. If you're only landing 1 or 2 pellets per shot, you're doing 1/3 or 2/3 the damage of a more accurate weapon.

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Illl quote my old post when i tryied to make my point with VOTs ARs.

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Originally Posted by Eleni

Well well, just found your post Whit.

To be honest the VOT ARs are my favs. As said above its about firerate.

To shorten the topic, Both VOT ARs are to the assault rifles class what a tachmag is to Pulsars. Lower DMG but higher firerate.
Indeed they have strong recoil and their description says "requires skill to use". I use em from the hip only, what makes em a mid range AR, but to me they are gorgeous and very efficients this way.

So mazu and blast rifles are "close combat" ARs in my book.

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I guess they lined it up as, true now Blast AR as powerful as a VBI, but at long range you hardly hit, when a VBI can be accurate a long range.

Mazus, look at their aimcross... standing, its bad, running, you wont hit a skitterling at 15meters. Aim, you cant line up a foe on sustained fire.

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Originally Posted by Tura Satana

On the contrary, I find it much easier to hit a wiggling, juking target in PvP with my Piper BECAUSE of the way the bullets spread out together - than any other assault rifle and was doing decent with it before. Well today it has been utter destruction for anyone coming between my Piper and my goal. I've been shredding people left and right and starting to feel guilty about it. Maybe on paper its on par with every other assault rifle now. But in actual use its so much better.

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The spread has some advantages, but it makes it difficult for targeting crit areas. I often prefer to use a pulser or needler with electric nano as they focus the bullets more.

I haven't played PvP since Solstice. But I can assure you guys that I saw Nef was using Blast Rifle 4 or 5 months ago(my gamertag is Bright51d3 to be fair). I remember it so vividly because I was shocked knowing such a hardcore player was using such a crappy weapon. I thought he was using it as a self handicap or something. Definitely I was wrong. So I think I should back his opinion. At least he's not demanding nerf like other whiners because he's not on the losing end.

Well idk about pvp, but I do know when taking down a viscera I tried using the blast rifle but it was just taking too danm long so I ended up switching to my needler and the viscera went down like normal, it's not all about pvp you know, well you probably don't as almost every nerf has been on behalf of pvp players, but yeah there is this other thing in defiance called pve, don't know if you noticed it nef, but it's actually more popular than pvp

I wish they would just normalize all damage in PvP.

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Originally Posted by Mister Derpenhowser

Some people won't be happy till the next jackpots a catapult or pea shooter.

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My friend thinks it should be a crossbow.. seriously..

And on the subject of the Piper in PvE.. well I still feel its just too strong now. Takes down enemies way faster than my hellfire or other "better" assault rifles.

better, huh. how are they better? or is it just what you are used to

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Originally Posted by cmpowell

better, huh. how are they better? or is it just what you are used to

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Notice i put "better" in quotation marks. Because any standard VBI for example has always been regarded as superior to a blast rifle. Even the Piper. Well now I suppose they wouldn't be considered better, just on par with each other. Which I don't believe is necessarily true either. Yes blast rifles have a large open reticle, but most enemies are at close to mid range in this game, therefore the lack of accuracy from that is not a huge issue.

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Originally Posted by Tura Satana

Notice i put "better" in quotation marks. Because any standard VBI for example has always been regarded as superior to a blast rifle. Even the Piper. Well now I suppose they wouldn't be considered better, just on par with each other. Which I don't believe is necessarily true either. Yes blast rifles have a large open reticle, but most enemies are at close to mid range in this game, therefore the lack of accuracy from that is not a huge issue.

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ah, i see what you did there.

blast rifles also suffer from the lowest crit and slowest reload

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Originally Posted by otonagamer

I haven't played PvP since Solstice. But I can assure you guys that I saw Nef was using Blast Rifle 4 or 5 months ago(my gamertag is Bright51d3 to be fair). I remember it so vividly because I was shocked knowing such a hardcore player was using such a crappy weapon. I thought he was using it as a self handicap or something. Definitely I was wrong. So I think I should back his opinion. At least he's not demanding nerf like other whiners because he's not on the losing end.

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Thanks for backing me as not many are. The thing is players tested it in PTS and gave it the green light. But how many players really ever extensively used the Blast Rifle prior to that? It definitely had its up sides as it was but were looked past by many.

I asked in the PTS thread (post #6) on how much the Blast Rifle dmg was buffed after I read it. If I was told over 50% I would of been all over it then as I know how the Blast Rifle works, and not because Im some genius but because I was the only man alive to ever really main and use it. Just because other ppl ignored using it doesn't mean it wasn't good, hell a lot of ppl never even knew it did x3 dmg.

But it is what it is. I don't think the Blast Rifle is going to change. At most we can hope for is better changes and through those changes a byproduct is made to help balance other things. Such as nano balancing.

btw sorry if I get worked up. I like Defiance a lot and seeing things happen that look to effect it negatively bothers me some. But its whatever, the game is not my vision. I can just put forth my input.

There's no need to change the Blast Rifle. It was a weapon I used to instantly vendor, now it's a weapon I can sell to other players. People may feel that its DPS is too high but in actuality it's as high as a decently rolled VBI AR. A decently rolled VBI AR has lower DPS than the best Castithan Springer and the best Castithan Springer has lower DPS than the worst Hog Leg/Needler. For you non-DLC holders, decently rolled VOT Pulser and VOT Tachmag Pulser weapons are better than the Blast Rifle.

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Originally Posted by Nefarious

Thanks for backing me as not many are. The thing is players tested it in PTS and gave it the green light. But how many players really ever extensively used the Blast Rifle prior to that? It definitely had its up sides as it was but were looked past by many.

I asked in the PTS thread (post #6) on how much the Blast Rifle dmg was buffed after I read it. If I was told over 50% I would of been all over it then as I know how the Blast Rifle works, and not because Im some genius but because I was the only man alive to ever really main and use it. Just because other ppl ignored using it doesn't mean it wasn't good, hell a lot of ppl never even knew it did x3 dmg.

But it is what it is. I don't think the Blast Rifle is going to change. At most we can hope for is better changes and through those changes a byproduct is made to help balance other things. Such as nano balancing.

btw sorry if I get worked up. I like Defiance a lot and seeing things happen that look to effect it negatively bothers me some. But its whatever, the game is not my vision. I can just put forth my input.

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I collected blast & flash rifles too and often used them in pvp. Even fully t4 modded and with the best possible synergy on them (rolling thunder) and using the 2 best pvp nanos (rad and bio), I was only able to do well with them when low-mid ego players were playing. Most of the times these players didn't have as good perks or as a good of a shield as I did, so my ego level and my gear carried me. HOWEVER, any time a high ego player logged on, I got instantly demolished by their slugger/needler/RL/boomer/fragger/hell even a vbi smg. You know why? because its dps was pitifully WEAK. Even if I got the jump on them, I would need to have a head start of at least 2 seconds of continuous fire before I was able to edge them out and kill them. Face it, against any well equipped, high ego player, in a straight on firefight you wouldn't have stood a chance using the old blast rifle. They were strictly for fun weapons (like heavy sawed off scatterguns), and I wouldn't have used them if I needed to win a match.

P.S. The blast rifle also wasn't buffed by over 50%. It was buffed by 50% exactly. Go read the patch notes.

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Originally Posted by King Stud

Face it, against any well equipped, high ego player, in a straight on firefight you wouldn't stand a chance using the old blast rifle. They were strictly for fun weapons (like heavy sawed off scatterguns), and I wouldn't have used them if I needed to win a match.

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That's not true as Otonagamer can vouch for me. I don't expect anyone else to come into the thread and admit I was good and wrecking ppl with it though. And a straight on fire fight as a example is weak. That wasn't one of its good qualities but it very much made up for it in other ways and uses.

I think it's the difference between PC and console. It's relatively easy to land every bullet with mouse aiming but it's relatively hard if you use right stick of gamepad. That's why bullet spread of Blast Rifle can be an advantage on console. PTS is only for PC. I think there's not much people using gamepad on PTS. Anyway we already have tons of OP weapons. Let's see for a while how other OP weapons stack against this new face. Maybe different adjustment needed for console.

Just for what it's worth. Based on my spreadsheet, my Piper (with a T5 damage barrel and three t4 sat syn mods) now has a higher DPS and DPS/reload than other ARs and basic SMGS (this assumes all three pellets hit the target). The DPS actually compares favorably to tachmags and hoglegs (except those with Cannoneer syn). But its numbers fall off considerably in the crit/DPS category. So, I don't know if this makes it OP or not but it certainly makes it more fun to use than it used to be.

I really like the updated blast rifle- PvP, Co-op, open world, warmaster. They took a pitiful weak gun & made it cool. I used to be so bummed to get a purple or OJ balst rifle, cause i was just going to turn around & donate or vendor it. I kept the Piper because it was named, and I have 1 other blast w plateslicer syn.

As for O.P. in pvp... I had friends complain that I used a boomer, and I was told it was cheesy to use a slugger, and stay away from infectors or rocket launchers cause only weak no good players use them. Surge rifles are O.P. and a rad Needler rapes people. So what the heck is acceptable in pvp? Altra told me that every weapon in the game can be O.P. in the right hands, and thats true. So what if blast rifles finally get kills? All the others i mentioned are easy killers too.

Lets just use it & have fun! I know I am.

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Originally Posted by Br3ach

I really like the updated blast rifle- PvP, Co-op, open world, warmaster. They took a pitiful weak gun & made it cool. I used to be so bummed to get a purple or OJ balst rifle, cause i was just going to turn around & donate or vendor it. I kept the Piper because it was named, and I have 1 other blast w plateslicer syn.

As for O.P. in pvp... I had friends complain that I used a boomer, and I was told it was cheesy to use a slugger, and stay away from infectors or rocket launchers cause only weak no good players use them. Surge rifles are O.P. and a rad Needler rapes people. So what the heck is acceptable in pvp? Altra told me that every weapon in the game can be O.P. in the right hands, and thats true. So what if blast rifles finally get kills? All the others i mentioned are easy killers too.

Lets just use it & have fun! I know I am.

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People complain about powerful guns in PvP because:

A. They don't have one, and are too lazy to find a way to obtain one.

B. They are making excuses for why they lose instead of realizing that loadout and gear selection are a skill just like strategy and accuracy are.

It's like this in every online PvP shooter. "I get killed by *blah blah blah* too much so it's OP." not realizing that every setup should have a weakness, and it will be the way you die the most if you use one setup exclusively.

A setup is broken or OP only if it is the only viable option because it has no weaknesses.

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Originally Posted by Duke_Shambles

People complain about powerful guns in PvP because:

A. They don't have one, and are too lazy to find a way to obtain one.

B. They are making excuses for why they lose instead of realizing that loadout and gear selection are a skill just like strategy and accuracy are.

It's like this in every online PvP shooter. "I get killed by *blah blah blah* too much so it's OP." not realizing that every setup should have a weakness, and it will be the way you die the most if you use one setup exclusively.

A setup is broken or OP only if it is the only viable option because it has no weaknesses.

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Its true what you're saying.However,in defiance bunny hopping with big boomers is OP.