Concerns about Co-Op maps

In the past, I have assumed that I could never get a Co-Op match to launch because I wasn't high enough to enter Expert and that's what everyone was doing.
Now that I can, it doesn't seem to have changed anything.
I have to prompt players to enter the match.
I don't have to do that in my other mmo that uses a public matchmaking system.

This is a concern because 7th Legion Reputation asks me to complete these maps for the weekly reward.

I have bad history with an mmo where everyone did speedrunning on Co-Op maps.
This appears to be reoccuring in Defiance.
That they just run through the map as fast as they can without waiting for the others.
I even saw one group member vote to kick another group member because they were 3 meters behind the others and insulted them as well.
It's like they're running on mental autopilot, in two specific cases, I asked that they not kill a specific enemy because Snake Bite II pursuit mandated I defeat them, they shot the enemies anyway!

Also, there is a Pursuit that requires finding 3 data recorders on these maps.
So far, I haven't had the chance to slow down and really look for them.
And the Cerberus pursuit, well, they keep making that one fail too!

I assume all of the above means that it's best to find a group of friends to do this with, as it seems I can't meet my Pursuit goals with randoms.

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Originally Posted by Tilarta

In the past, I have assumed that I could never get a Co-Op match to launch because I wasn't high enough to enter Expert and that's what everyone was doing.
Now that I can, it doesn't seem to have changed anything.
I have to prompt players to enter the match.
I don't have to do that in my other mmo that uses a public matchmaking system.

This is a concern because 7th Legion Reputation asks me to complete these maps for the weekly reward.

I have bad history with an mmo where everyone did speedrunning on Co-Op maps.
This appears to be reoccuring in Defiance.
That they just run through the map as fast as they can without waiting for the others.
I even saw one group member vote to kick another group member because they were 3 meters behind the others and insulted them as well.
It's like they're running on mental autopilot, in two specific cases, I asked that they not kill a specific enemy because Snake Bite II pursuit mandated I defeat them, they shot the enemies anyway!

Also, there is a Pursuit that requires finding 3 data recorders on these maps.
So far, I haven't had the chance to slow down and really look for them.
And the Cerberus pursuit, well, they keep making that one fail too!

I assume all of the above means that it's best to find a group of friends to do this with, as it seems I can't meet my Pursuit goals with randoms.

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Rule of thumb: never expect PUGs to be helpful in your particular matters. They are simply there to finish their contracts. If you must do Pursuits, it's best if you group with friends.

No reason that these can't be completed on your own. Ridiculous to have to beg others to que just to complete daily activities. You can do everything else solo in this game no reason these co ops should still be locked behind ques.

Sometimes I just want to level up guns these expert co ops would be a great place to do it. Then the ADHD crowd can't complain about the slow pokes. I also don't want to watch the cut scenes that I have seen for the past 3 years that some people love to sit thru

I have to say that I completely agree I've sat six hours before to do chimera daily and I paid for that dlc

I've been saying that the co-ops should be soloable for over 3 years now. Trion has said on many occasions that they aren't going to make these maps soloable. I think Trion should reevaluate this position. The co-op maps are quite fun to do solo, and we shouldn't need to wait around for 3 other people to queue up. If Trion is concerned about arkforge and key farming, simply make the co-op maps not grant either arkforge or keys after a few playthroughs in a 24 hour period. You could get everything else (experience, loot) except for arkforge and keys. Don't see any problem with this...

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Originally Posted by BarrySciFi

If Trion is concerned about arkforge and key farming, simply make the co-op maps not grant either arkforge or keys after a few playthroughs in a 24 hour period.

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There is already an arkforge cap in place and coops aren't anywhere near a great key farming place.
To alter the rewards for the worse any further would eat into their bottom line with people paying for patron.

The main issue eating into people queing for anything are the nonstop events, it eats into people doing coops, expos, and pvp aside from groups getting together to do their dailies.

Best offer of advice for OP is find a good helpful clan and join them, it makes a world of difference in the enjoyment of this game

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Originally Posted by NullWolf

There is already an arkforge cap in place and coops aren't anywhere near a great key farming place.
To alter the rewards for the worse any further would eat into their bottom line with people paying for patron.

The main issue eating into people queing for anything are the nonstop events, it eats into people doing coops, expos, and pvp aside from groups getting together to do their dailies.

Best offer of advice for OP is find a good helpful clan and join them, it makes a world of difference in the enjoyment of this game

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Yep I agree, op find a good helpful clan, there's plenty on the pc and I also agree that it wouldn't hurt for the co op maps to be started by a solo player, expos are and people can just join.

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Originally Posted by LOOKxATxTHISxI

No reason that these can't be completed on your own.

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There are three reasons this can't be completed on your own, the match won't start with just one player queued for it!

And please drop the clan talk, all that achieves is to derail the thread.
If I wanted to discuss clans, I would have made a seperate thread for that topic.

Get yourself a good clan or good friends. Or, ask in zone if anyone wants to go find data recorders and complete co op pursuits etc. Then google the data recorders online and you'll be done with it in no time. Or just go and find them but just get yourself a good group of players, don't just join a random co op. Solo co ops would be awesome though I agree.

In the early days of this game, the glitchers were voted out. Now it is the opposite.

It is very noticeable if iols is the daily chimera contract. If you are going in random, you need to stay on the dock or the glitch runners will vote kick you. When they decoy to end with their mm glitch, you have 3 seconds to blow yourself up and extract to them, or you will get vote kicked.

The best advice i can give is to get a full group together prior to queuing up for co-ops. It will keep you from getting vote kicked, and guarantee that the co-op will start for you.

pugs that will stop for you to get data recorders or do other pursuit objectives are very rare.

Best to get a group of friends/clannies.

Been this way since before Dec 2014. Most pugs don't care why you're there unless it's to kill the boss and finish the coop. Just the way it is.

So from the information given, what I understand is that no matter the game, PUGs are bad for teamwork?

In at least two other mmos, I've had regular experiences with how unpleasant your average PUGmoron is, they will start fights over the most petty things, usually problems they are causing for the rest of the team.

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Originally Posted by Johnny Gatt

It is very noticeable if iols is the daily chimera contract.

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Island of Lost Soldiers?
Now I am suspicious about being instantly booted from that map last night just as it started.
I had assumed it was a glitch, but based on what information you just gave me, I am thinking it was an intentional kicking.
Also, I saw one of the objectionable players in that group, so they may have been responsible.

Darn, that's going to be problematic if I have to keep doing 7th Legion weeklies and they all consist of Co-Op maps.

Fortunately, I don't have an interest in Chimera, because after inspecting their gear, I couldn't find anything that complemented my playstyle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tilarta

So from the information given, what I understand is that no matter the game, PUGs are bad for teamwork?

In at least two other mmos, I've had regular experiences with how unpleasant your average PUGmoron is, they will start fights over the most petty things, usually problems they are causing for the rest of the team.



Island of Lost Soldiers?
Now I am suspicious about being instantly booted from that map last night just as it started.
I had assumed it was a glitch, but based on what information you just gave me, I am thinking it was an intentional kicking.
Also, I saw one of the objectionable players in that group, so they may have been responsible.

Darn, that's going to be problematic if I have to keep doing 7th Legion weeklies and they all consist of Co-Op maps.

Fortunately, I don't have an interest in Chimera, because after inspecting their gear, I couldn't find anything that complemented my playstyle.

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Don't you have friends to help you start co-ops?

@alien
Not enough to make an entire team.

And also, there is a timezone conflict.
Being Australian means that it is highly unlikely to find anyone in a suitable timezone on this server.
The few friends I have aren't online when I am.

Before anyone says it, no, I will not make another character on the NA server.
My character is mostly complete and I am not doing everything again from zero progression.

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Originally Posted by Tilarta

@alien
Not enough to make an entire team.

And also, there is a timezone conflict.
Being Australian means that it is highly unlikely to find anyone in a suitable timezone on this server.
The few friends I have aren't online when I am.

Before anyone says it, no, I will not make another character on the NA server.
My character is mostly complete and I am not doing everything again from zero progression.

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Weren't you like 4700 ego? That's nowhere near complete.

@alien
5100 actually.

But it's more the Pursuits and weapons XP I was referring to.
Since most of them are nearly complete and some of it I found really boring is all the reason I need to not do it again from the beginning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LOOKxATxTHISxI

No reason that these can't be completed on your own. Ridiculous to have to beg others to que just to complete daily activities. You can do everything else solo in this game no reason these co ops should still be locked behind ques.

Sometimes I just want to level up guns these expert co ops would be a great place to do it. Then the ADHD crowd can't complain about the slow pokes. I also don't want to watch the cut scenes that I have seen for the past 3 years that some people love to sit thru

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This , so much this .. two toons did not get their mother load runs in cause after an hour sitting q'd etc ... gave up , already bugged enough people friends on first four ...

Sorry about the confusion, I misread the post as meaning something else.
Been dealing far too much with "keyboard courage" forumites lately (not here).
I.E: people who post looking just to start fights!

To be brutally honest, I've lost any confidence in Defiance getting upgraded beyond what we have now.
From my perspective, it's like playing a game that is only half there, because so much of what exists in other mmos isn't here.
Account bank/non-personal character bank for example.

Made some friends, they're all offline due to timezone differential.
Clans, well, running into complications there, hence why I don't want to discuss it!

In 3 yrs of playing defiance the only time I've had to wait more than 10 minutes was when I did PvP. The co-op maps normally start pretty easy most any time of day. It sounds like you want to run solo and are offended to wait or be in a clan conversation. If I have no clan mates on when I want to run a co-op. I just start the map I want and ask for x amount of player to join and leave. Usually no problem at all

1) waiting for co-op team
2) taking a long time, so begin one of the long faction missions
3) almost finished, but co-op is ready
4) decide to drop out of co-op and finish faction mission, rather than have to come back and start again
5) waiting for co-op team

To get some baseline data for this subject, I decided to test how long it would take for the Co-Op maps to launch if I didn't prompt anyone to join.
It took 1 hour for the first team to be filled, another hour for the second.

And because it took so long, I didn't have time to do the remaining two maps on my checklist (7th Legion weekly reputation).

I am confused, because there didn't seem to be much going on at the time ingame, 1 Major Arkfall in that two hour session, 2 Incursions and one Siege.
So what were the players actually doing between those battles?

How is it that we can go alone into expeditions, which are arguably more difficult, yet co-ops require 4 players? The bottom line is that expert co-ops should work just like expeditions. They should start as soon as you queue and other people can join along the way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tilarta

To get some baseline data for this subject, I decided to test how long it would take for the Co-Op maps to launch if I didn't prompt anyone to join.
It took 1 hour for the first team to be filled, another hour for the second.

And because it took so long, I didn't have time to do the remaining two maps on my checklist (7th Legion weekly reputation).

I am confused, because there didn't seem to be much going on at the time ingame, 1 Major Arkfall in that two hour session, 2 Incursions and one Defense.
So what were the players actually doing between those battles?

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What you don't understand is that most people join co-ops in full groups that's why it's hard for you to find a co-op to join bwcaus emost of them are already full.

And most maxed out players do expeditions and pvp.

@alien
There were no Shadow War markers active, nor was anyone asking for Expedition team members.

Hence why I surmised the players were doing nothing at all.

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Originally Posted by r1p

How is it that we can go alone into expeditions, which are arguably more difficult, yet co-ops require 4 players? The bottom line is that expert co-ops should work just like expeditions. They should start as soon as you queue and other people can join along the way.

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Absolutely.
Or if they really wanted to maintain the coop-ishness of coop: let a coop start with just two people and up to 2 others can join if any Q during the match. That way there's still more than one person cooperating to kill mobs and a boss lol

Trion should definitely read this thread and consider changing co-op to the expedition style maps. Waiting on others for specific maps is literally sometimes not even possible unless you get a premade group, much less needing a whole group of 4 people for it is a bit much.