Karma For Non Patron Players

Hi All,

Over the past two days, we have been carefully investigating a possible issue with players who are not patron getting the purchase complete popup after a major arkfall event. It was believed that this behavior would occur, after we made some subtle changes to how jackpots, both normal and karma based, were handed out to the player.

While investigating, we did identify a bug with the karma system for New Frontier Harvest that was giving the karma benefits to non-patrons. As of last night with the nightly restarts, this bug has been fixed, and Karma is back to being an exclusive patron benefit as it was meant to be. We really appreciate all players who brought this to our attention, and we apologize for this bug that was hidden behind how the system should be working now.

In addition to fixing this, we have also removed the popup from non-patron players, so that patrons can know they are getting their Karma roll. However, this does not change the fact that a normal jackpot and a Karma jackpot will now drop the same way (without replacing your major event reward weapon or mod).

While this bug did end up benefiting non-patron players, we do understand that this is an exclusive patron only reward, and patron players should be the only ones receiving this benefit. As such, we will be rewarding any player who was a patron, or became a patron since we unlocked the servers on Monday till we fixed the issue last night, a 6 day additional patron pass. This will add on to any current patron time that you have. I will keep everyone informed of when this grant will take place, but it will be soon.

Thank you for your understanding, and I apologize for the initial confusion on my part regarding whether this issue was indeed a bug. We always strive to be as visible and clear about these issues as possible, especially regarding the Karma system.

I'm not seeing the "purchase complete " pop up anymore and for the record I never received any JP's from this! (Added the last part for the raging patron holders over this) But I'm still not seeing my rewards for arkfalls till minutes later. If I go to claims they are there though, not saying I'm not receiving anything at all.

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Originally Posted by Ronin9572

I'm not seeing the "purchase complete " pop up anymore and for the record I never received any JP's from this! (Added the last part for the raging patron holders over this) But I'm still not seeing my rewards for arkfalls till minutes later. If I go to claims they are there though, not saying I'm not receiving anything at all.

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As a patron pass holder, this doesn't bother me a bit, as it had no impact on my game play. If a lucky few non-patrons got in enough majors to got a karma jackpot, good for them :)

I am amazed at how much negativity some people direct at this game and yet continue to be here day after day. I thought the entire point of playing was to have to have some fun. Seems like it's become a very negative obsession for some folks which is unfortunate.

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Originally Posted by Ronin9572

I'm not seeing the "purchase complete " pop up anymore and for the record I never received any JP's from this! (Added the last part for the raging patron holders over this) But I'm still not seeing my rewards for arkfalls till minutes later. If I go to claims they are there though, not saying I'm not receiving anything at all.

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I've only seen two jackpots this event and one of them was a trade.

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Originally Posted by Verga DeFuego

As a patron pass holder, this doesn't bother me a bit, as it had no impact on my game play. If a lucky few non-patrons got in enough majors to got a karma jackpot, good for them :)

I am amazed at how much negativity some people direct at this game and yet continue to be here day after day. I thought the entire point of playing was to have to have some fun. Seems like it's become a very negative obsession for some folks which is unfortunate.

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I'm not a patron atm. I was just pointing out what was happening to me and others I have heard from about this. I'm trying to have fun, but having to wait a year for a JP is getting a bit old,and on top of that the OJ drop rates have really been diminished. JS

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Originally Posted by Ronin9572

I'm not a patron atm. I was just pointing out what was happening to me and others I have heard from about this. I'm trying to have fun, but having to wait a year for a JP is getting a bit old,and on top of that the OJ drop rates have really been diminished. JS

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Hi Ronin,
My 2nd paragraph wasn't directed at you, sorry if it came off that way. I can totally understand your frustration. I really appreciate the Karma system and can't thank the Dev's enough for it. My hope is that they will continue to look for opportunities to mitigate some of the worst frustrations people are feeling over aspects of the game that rely solely on RNG. My personal pet peeve is mod drops, but that's for another thread :)

Karma was introduced during nvf no? If so, then I got a jp with the purchase complete as non patron. Was this a typical jp drop or a karma drop? I got the zodiac zealot when the purchase complete came up.

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Originally Posted by Verga DeFuego

Hi Ronin,
My 2nd paragraph wasn't directed at you, sorry if it came off that way. I can totally understand your frustration. I really appreciate the Karma system and can't thank the Dev's enough for it. My hope is that they will continue to look for opportunities to mitigate some of the worst frustrations people are feeling over aspects of the game that rely solely on RNG. My personal pet peeve is mod drops, but that's for another thread :)

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Hey NP! The karma system is a good idea and exactly what patrons deserve. It just needs some work is all IMHO. My issue really is the weighted RNG, and decreased rates for mods and OJ drops. All I all I still enjoy the game, hope others do as well!

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Originally Posted by Destromathe

As such, we will be rewarding any player who was a patron, or became a patron since we unlocked the servers on Monday till we fixed the issue last night, a 6 day additional patron pass. This will add on to any current patron time that you have. I will keep everyone informed of when this grant will take place, but it will be soon.

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This is awesome, thank you!

I feel like this has been going on since karma was introduced but either way thanks for the 6 days of patron.

I dont understand why devs think we shouldnt be able to differentiate between a Karma drop and a regular drop. This is the opposite of being transparent. Karma drops should different so pp holders can know whether or not they are benefiting from pp. Other wise it feels jusjust like RnG lottery scam.

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Originally Posted by Verga DeFuego

I am amazed at how much negativity some people direct at this game and yet continue to be here day after day. I thought the entire point of playing was to have to have some fun. Seems like it's become a very negative obsession for some folks which is unfortunate.

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I don't know if I fall into this category or you or others feel that I do but any posts or remarks I make that may seem negative are born from sheer frustration at the state of the game and how I personally feel we the players are treated.
My frustration is mainly directed at bugs/glitches that still remain from day one and the bugs that are continually being introduced with each new event, I don't think we've had an event this year that hasn't had a bug and while the devs are trying to fix those the old ones aren't being addressed.
I'm not saying that the current devs aren't capable because they're as they fix the current ones but Trion need to invest some money back into this game maybe by hiring some more faces to sort out the old bugs and to take a load off our current overworked Dev team.

I've been watching the past live streams looking for some information and one thing I've noticed in the faces of the team and that's they look very tired, they actually look like they could do with a good day out at the beach to catch some rays and charge their batteries.

I try to play every day but the real world intrudes at times but I still have over 200 Days in game play across my main toons.

If anyone wants to check their own time played type in chat /time played but you must have settings turned on.

On topic I'm thankful for the extra weeks pp its just a shame it's only a two week event.

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Originally Posted by Cygnus

I dont understand why devs think we shouldnt be able to differentiate between a Karma drop and a regular drop. This is the opposite of being transparent. Karma drops should different so pp holders can know whether or not they are benefiting from pp. Other wise it feels jusjust like RnG lottery scam.

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Hi Cygnus,

I have addressed this concern in other threads, but I would be happy to elaborate more here. In order for the Karma system to work, technically speaking, we had to tie rewarding normal jackpots with karma jackpots, because of how we reward them in game. There is a ton of math and technical specifications that work behind the scenes in order for Karma to make sense, and currently we do not have any way of presenting this information to the player.

There is currently no good system in place to give players that wow factor of "Hey, you got a karma drop", and implementing something like that takes time, as it involves work with the UI. Because we currently have no clear indicator for this, we do not show the difference at all. The reasoning for that is because there is no clear indicator, all players are left with is speculation, and a system that is clearly not perfect, telling them what kind of drop they got.

Previously, players were assuming that if they merely did not get a weapon in the rewards screen, that meant they got a normal jackpot. This is simply not the case 100% of the time, and can lead to some confusion and eventually anger if players feel cheated based on false information. Until we can 100% put a system in place that will show players exactly when they get a Karma drop, we will not differentiate between the two. In this case, half way is not better.

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Originally Posted by Destromathe

Hi Cygnus,

I have addressed this concern in other threads, but I would be happy to elaborate more here. In order for the Karma system to work, technically speaking, we had to tie rewarding normal jackpots with karma jackpots, because of how we reward them in game. There is a ton of math and technical specifications that work behind the scenes in order for Karma to make sense, and currently we do not have any way of presenting this information to the player.

There is currently no good system in place to give players that wow factor of "Hey, you got a karma drop", and implementing something like that takes time, as it involves work with the UI. Because we currently have no clear indicator for this, we do not show the difference at all. The reasoning for that is because there is no clear indicator, all players are left with is speculation, and a system that is clearly not perfect, telling them what kind of drop they got.

Previously, players were assuming that if they merely did not get a weapon in the rewards screen, that meant they got a normal jackpot. This is simply not the case 100% of the time, and can lead to some confusion and eventually anger if players feel cheated based on false information. Until we can 100% put a system in place that will show players exactly when they get a Karma drop, we will not differentiate between the two. In this case, half way is not better.

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Firstly I want to say that I do hold you and the team in high regard, my past inquisition regarding karma would of been settled if you'd said this in the first place.

Regarding jp notification we used to get a jp notification from the t4 lockbox when we got one.

Could that not be utilised for the karma drop somehow?

Damn just thought about it and hope the 6 days patron pass comes before or after the 2 week snooze-fest you have planned after NFH..

6 days of patron without an event going....meh.

what about the rewards for the on going connectivity issues?

String missing is still coming up in chat on ps3 na.

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Bugs with arkfalls aren't addressed, bugs with connectivity aren't addressed, bugs with netcode aren't addressed, and bugs with the launcher and in-game stability aren't addressed... BUT ... Trion rushes to fix the problem wherein people that didn't pay for a patron pass ended up getting jackpots. Their programming team was at first convinced it was a trivial visual glitch but once they found it wasn't, single-day job.

Shows their priorities, they're more concerned about being paid than putting forth a good product.

Truth be told, I'd rather see the random crit/PSN kick/hard PS3 freeze on game quit combos become a thing of the past before seeing a new event.

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this guy has a Valid point destro...perhaps youd care to be Transparent about those issues?
or why it was SOOOOOO important that you fix the karma carp Immediately Instead of the server issues?
and even more Disturbing,,
why is it that you use Us as Your Test mules instead of you know,Testing stuff Yourselves!!
preferably before you Sell this stuff!! :mad:

and,something thats been bothering me for a lonnnnng time.
why is it,you are so happy announcing the newest carp bundles for sale,
and yet the game itself is almost always broken?
is that the only point of Pride you have in this game,is making up new garbage to buy?
thats not really a mark of greatness for a developer,just in case you didnt know that.....


is it possible for you to answer Any of this? :confused:

thanks for the extra 6 days of patron

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Originally Posted by hempman

this guy has a Valid point destro...perhaps youd care to be Transparent about those issues?
or why it was SOOOOOO important that you fix the karma carp Immediately Instead of the server issues?
and even more Disturbing,,
why is it that you use Us as Your Test mules instead of you know,Testing stuff Yourselves!!
preferably before you Sell this stuff!! :mad:

and,something thats been bothering me for a lonnnnng time.
why is it,you are so happy announcing the newest carp bundles for sale,
and yet the game itself is almost always broken?
is that the only point of Pride you have in this game,is making up new garbage to buy?
thats not really a mark of greatness for a developer,just in case you didnt know that.....


is it possible for you to answer Any of this? :confused:

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It is sad how these things are dealt with. I doubt any of those questions will be answered. Many of us have been asking so many questions for so long and they'll never be addressed. Smh...

I have been cheated for months now with busting my butt trying to get a good score to maybe get JPs but its never gonna happen when people are getting the coop bonus. I didnt see it at first but it made me furious that someone with a sniper rifle could get a higher score in a major than a rot fissure supreme. Im so ticked off. The only way I get something is by purchase Im never given squatt. You cant stop the cheaters and now theyre the only ones getting anything great job thank you very much, its nice to know my griping got me exactly no where. You wont hear from me on here anymore this section is just a brush u off and go buy more stuff from you. Karma is Crap because they still figuired a way around it and now I dont get anything and havent for months. I am taking a second look for another week to see where I stand here because Im not seeing anyone making out but the cheaters and the cheaters only play most of the event then dont play again til theres another event. Thats why you cant catch it.

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Originally Posted by AwareRelic

I have been cheated for months now with busting my butt trying to get a good score to maybe get JPs but its never gonna happen when people are getting the coop bonus. I didnt see it at first but it made me furious that someone with a sniper rifle could get a higher score in a major than a rot fissure supreme. Im so ticked off. The only way I get something is by purchase Im never given squatt. You cant stop the cheaters and now theyre the only ones getting anything great job thank you very much, its nice to know my griping got me exactly no where. You wont hear from me on here anymore this section is just a brush u off and go buy more stuff from you. Karma is Crap because they still figuired a way around it and now I dont get anything and havent for months. I am taking a second look for another week to see where I stand here because Im not seeing anyone making out but the cheaters and the cheaters only play most of the event then dont play again til theres another event. Thats why you cant catch it.

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I feel your pain as I've had issues at times with this games rng, I'm used to games like Borderlands one where you're rewarded for playing and not for being a whale.
Regarding the score though you don't have to get a high score to have a chance of a jp.
In the HH I tagged a major by killing one afflicted and went off to do an incursion, low and behold I got a jp.
Nothing brilliant as I rarely get anything good but it was a jp.

Skipped work for a day yesterday and ran 5 toons for NFH event. I am not implying anything, but all in all I got more ojs and better stuff from my non PP accounts (see below, if interested). I’m still bugged with this Karma system.

Main account with PP (only lilith from previous event)
- oj electric ravenous pas-24 tornado
- a few purple weapons, lots of blues (vendored)
- a few purple mods, lots of blues (mostly vendored)

alt from main with PP (no JP from previous event)
- oj bio ravenous assault carbine
- depravity rocket launcher
- a few purple weapons, lots of blues (vendored)
- a few purple mods, lots of blues (mostly vendored)

2nd account NO PP
- oj syphon ravenous smg
- oj ravenous ss-2 ranger no effect
- oj ravenous assault carbine no effect (vendored)
- depravity rocket launcher
- a few purple weapons, lots of blues (vendored)
- a few purple mods and lots of blues

3rd account NO PP
- Compulsion smg
- oj syphon ravenous smg (vendored)
- oj ravenous ss-2 ranger no effect
- purple and blue weapons (vendored)
- a few good purple AR mods, lots of blues

4th account NO PP
- oj ravenous smg no effect
- oj bio ravenous assault carbine (vendored)
- oj ravenous pas-24 tornado no effect (vendored)
- oj sustained power muzzle
- purple and blue weapons (vendored)
- a few of good purple AR mods, lots of blues

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Originally Posted by Ronin9572

Many of us have been asking so many questions for so long and they'll never be addressed.

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My thoughts on the subject, I also think they'll never be addressed:

http://i.imgur.com/zrbggCa.gif

I'm curious why the last 2 nights my "purchase complete" screen is only popping every 5 af's or so?

Last night did several runs. It popped on 1st. Then, went 5 or 6 without and then it popped twice in a row. The last 2 of the night, wasn't there again.

It is what it is...

Even if I had paid for a patron pass, I would have let it lapse today. My PS3 froze in the character section of the menu. THE MENU.

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Originally Posted by PithHelmetIrath

My thoughts on the subject, I also think they'll never be addressed:

http://i.imgur.com/zrbggCa.gif

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I hear ya! Having more fun the last few days playing Battlestar Galactica: squadrons on my smartphone and tablet. Sure there's no social aspect, but least I'm having fun playing...JS

okay so i've entered Hulker Hell with a few days of free Atlas PP remaining.

i got N O T H I N G for entire event. a few oj mods from box and a few orange weapons - not a single JP. and i played it to hell and back, like, 666 hulkers were killed by the end of day two of event.


this event, NFH: Indulgence on day one, then OJ SMG, Carbine and thats all. oh, and a metric butt-ton of High-Zoom Scopes III for all weapons. like really, if it has to be scope, it would be Telescopic, Tactical or Precision

RNG, hello, there's other scopes too, you know? not to mention there's barely any stocks dropping.

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Originally Posted by Ronin9572

I hear ya! Having more fun the last few days playing Battlestar Galactica: squadrons on my smartphone and tablet. Sure there's no social aspect, but least I'm having fun playing...JS

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I'm actually playing expos now...I used to hate them but now I find them more entertaining than the arkfalls. Pvp is of course still fun but for pve the expos are winning.

I'm still a little confused
http://i.imgur.com/gVgvDin.jpg
is this a karma drop or just a normal drop? Wouldn't the normal jackpot drop replace the weapon drop. And since its a delayed drop wouldn't you say its a karma drop. And it is still dropping on a non-patron player?

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Originally Posted by BaronFrosch

I'm still a little confused
http://i.imgur.com/gVgvDin.jpg
is this a karma drop or just a normal drop? Wouldn't the normal jackpot drop replace the weapon drop. And since its a delayed drop wouldn't you say its a karma drop. And it is still dropping on a non-patron player?

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I personally PP (patron pass) I have so falling a few times in various events.

...N7® .

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Originally Posted by BaronFrosch

I'm still a little confused
http://i.imgur.com/gVgvDin.jpg
is this a karma drop or just a normal drop? Wouldn't the normal jackpot drop replace the weapon drop. And since its a delayed drop wouldn't you say its a karma drop. And it is still dropping on a non-patron player?

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I would say that's a karma.

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Originally Posted by Bentu

I would say that's a karma.

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So they "fixed" the karma benefits of the non-patron players? Ohh well free karma drop for me then :)

Again, any jackpot earned from an event will come after the event is over, within a 15-20 second window. This is for both Karma and non Karma jackpots. I have stated several times that we removed the effect of a jackpot replacing your weapon from the event.

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Originally Posted by Destromathe

Again, any jackpot earned from an event will come after the event is over, within a 15-20 second window. This is for both Karma and non Karma jackpots. I have stated several times that we removed the effect of a jackpot replacing your weapon from the event.

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Ohh so no more jackpot reward screen, thanks for clearing things up Destro.

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Originally Posted by Destromathe

Again, any jackpot earned from an event will come after the event is over, within a 15-20 second window. This is for both Karma and non Karma jackpots. I have stated several times that we removed the effect of a jackpot replacing your weapon from the event.

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So if you get a jp from the event before the karma re role it won't appear on the reward screen?
Sorry to keep on but I just want to get it clear in my own mind because at one point you said if we didn't get a jp at the reward screen we then get the karma re roll and it would show up then.
I understand that's how you're saying it doesn't work, I'm over and past that but are you now saying that if we get a jp from a mjr it now won't appear on the reward screen?

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Originally Posted by Destromathe

Again, any jackpot earned from an event will come after the event is over, within a 15-20 second window. This is for both Karma and non Karma jackpots. I have stated several times that we removed the effect of a jackpot replacing your weapon from the event.

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Being that the "jackpots replacing your weapon" way of receiving your jackpots has been changed, is there any reason why us that submitted tickets back in early October for our missing jackpots havent been resolved yet? Im still owed 3, and support said it was in the devs hands as to when we would be rewarded our claims.

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Originally Posted by Bentu

So if you get a jp from the event before the karma re role it won't appear on the reward screen?
Sorry to keep on but I just want to get it clear in my own mind because at one point you said if we didn't get a jp at the reward screen we then get the karma re roll and it would show up then.
I understand that's how you're saying it doesn't work, I'm over and past that but are you now saying that if we get a jp from a mjr it now won't appear on the reward screen?

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Hey Bentu,

That is correct, as of New Frontier Harvest, there will be no Jackpot rewards in the reward screen. This change was made to prevent any jackpots from replacing your weapon or mod win from the Major arkfall itself. I hope this helps clear things up.

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Originally Posted by Destromathe

Hey Bentu,

That is correct, as of New Frontier Harvest, there will be no Jackpot rewards in the reward screen. This change was made to prevent any jackpots from replacing your weapon or mod win from the Major arkfall itself. I hope this helps clear things up.

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Great thanks for clearing that up, still can't say I'm happy with the whole notification thing but as long as I'm clear on what is happening I can't miss inform others.

Does anyone know if your patron expires (since console has no idea when that will be) does your karma earned reset so when you buy the next patron period you start over a '0' zero????