Defiance PvP?

People speaking for PvP speak like when someone opens up on you, you will last long enough to "call help" and after that survive long enough to get own group there and enemy group coming in. No.. when someone opens up on you from right behind you/your shield is down it'll take under 1 second to kill you. All you can do after that is tell that you got ganked at X. There wouldn't be long epic fights like you guys think in your brains. It would be all out abusing that open area and making game ****ty for others.

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Originally Posted by Cyrox

People speaking for PvP speak like when someone opens up on you, you will last long enough to "call help" and after that survive long enough to get own group there and enemy group coming in. No.. when someone opens up on you from right behind you/your shield is down it'll take under 1 second to kill you. All you can do after that is tell that you got ganked at X. There wouldn't be long epic fights like you guys think in your brains. It would be all out abusing that open area and making game ****ty for others.

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Opt-in for those that dont want it...really can't understand the vitriol. Anyway if the players opting into this are that unaware of their surrounding deserve it. Moreover if people die that quickly then this will play as another lame twitch shooter.

I think you confuse the typical or average PVEer skill with the player skill of the typical competitive shooter that PVPs. If this game really does function like a shooter as trion states and player skill can influence outcomes then yea im none too worried about getting ganked in fact i welcome it.

Moreover ill "opt-in" for it so its all on me, if you dont want to opt-in and carebear uninterrupted im not going to stop your fun, not to mention the system wont allow me to gank you since you're not "opted-in" but if you are well..... but thats a CHOICE YOU MADE.

So you can walk up to a guy who is "opt-in" and when he is not looking "opt-in" and smash him to ground? Also i guess you think all those cool 1on1 situations with people, yea it would be fun even 1v2 but think how many players there will be. And also if guns would be so underpowered that it would actually take so long to kill someone from point blank think how stupid pvp would be in arenas and shadow war, 50 bullets to kill someone.

seekndestroy, a PvP opt in method is already built in. it just waits till enough players choose to opt in, then starts a shadow war in the area.

what you suggest is a redundant version where one person opts in and is then open to being killed by anyone who sees them and then decides to opt in.

i've seen this in WoW in the areas that were PvP optional. you come across a PvP flagged player, get as close or in an optimal position, and then kill them and leave. in this game, with your method, you would have someone getting right next to the PvP flagged player, killing them, and unflagging themselves or driving away on a quad/ in a car, etc.

there would not be big epic battles as you describe. WoW had very few of those kinds of battles on PvP servers in the open world. it usually ended up with one large group on one faction camping one little area for a while, leaving and doing the same for the next, killing unsuspecting players. the battlegrounds they added, the first one, alterak valley, or w/e, is what made for really big battles that could last days and were fun. but that was an instanced battle.

open world PvP in a game with half or more the population trying to do quests simply doesnt work. it leads to someone killing someone else, that person getting friends to come help, but by then the other person has already left to kill their next player. there may occasionally be big battles, but 90% of the time it will end up as player A killed player B before they could retaliate and then left.

you claim the game could be like EVE... but my understanding is that EVE is MUCH larger than what Defiance will be on release. space afterall is much larger than San Francisco. so while in one game you could simply travel along the outskirts of space, fly up down, forward or backwards, left or right, Defiance only has forward, backward, left and right, and in much more enclosed spaces.

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Originally Posted by SeeknDestroy

Game lore: isolated battles that doesnt violate game lore already? Okay ark hunters are hunting for resources there are also rival factions already built in, so entirely reasonable to have rival factions/clans/whatever you want to call them and fit it in the lore.

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given that shadow war, is only carried out by the echelon group to train/find new mercs, and for fun. because war isnt really a place. the problem is you need viable reasons for people to be fighting a constant factional war, given there is a military and law enforcement in place, i doubt they would let factions have open battle. which would be the lore of open world pvp. remember this world everyone was in a war with the votan, everyone is sick of it. the only people who fight are outcasts groups, rebels etc. for a player to be able to fight a factional war they need to have reasons for the factions to fight it out in public.

your right about this doesnt explain 1 on 1 fights, but unless you make it all our open pvp, like EVE, but then you will have the law on you. this whole new area of game play is enough to make a whole new game. not tac on to an exsisting one.

this game is all about immersion, hence why they tie it to a tv show, you cant have 1 rule and lore for 1 server, and 1 rule and lore for another.

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Originally Posted by SeeknDestroy

Balance: If the ques and battle instances are already balancing the shooter elements than expanding that to persistent open world PVP works well. Moreover whats wrong with a anything goes "sandbox" last i checked EVE does this just fine, got a super max character ganking lone newbies, zerg the jerk. Zergs whording and roaming crushing everything. Gather an elite force of counter zergers that even if they cant match numbers can get close enough that the superior shooting and tactical skills pervail. Thats the difference in this MMO vs most others it follows a shooter mechanics. If you can aim and have better shooter skills(strafe, headshots, cover, tactics). that if balanced properly will prevail over gear.

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instanced fights are different to open world pvp. they can have a different set of rules. to balance open world pvp, you have to balance it with people wanting to do pve (the main part of this game). its a whole world of nightmare of balancing.

Snipers will kill in 1 shot. how exactly can better shooting skills prevail over gear. 1 shot dead. and i fight back how? no matter what skills you have you will end up with everyone running around with stealth and snipers. with 0 way to fight back. unless you raise players shields, but then pve becomes to easy. or reduce sniper shots vs people, and so on and so on, hence balancing issues. it has to balance with pve content. name 1 tps that has issues like this.

and your right eve can do it, but this brings me back to resources, given thats a whole game. your not talking about a whole game, your talking about part of an exsisting game. in a perfect world with infinite amount of money ofc.

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Originally Posted by SeeknDestroy

Will there be max level characters that will be difficult to take on and tip the scale in their favor. sure. Is that okay? Absolutely, why?
Because competitive PVPs from shooters love the challenge and relish in it.

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so the challange is fun, when some guy kills you dead, in 1 shot. you come back and they are gone, they come back 10 minutes later and pop. dead again. no matter how skilled you are, thats impossible.

its not like other tps or even fps shooters, where its mano a mano, running around every corner can be the last etc etc. and its not like other MMO ie eve, where you have a chance to fight back and prevail. you will be dead before you can react. in the pvp arenas, you have a fighting chance because you are expecting it. in open pvp, it will be "he who ganks first" try and do anything that isnt ganking and your just prey. so it becomes 1 giant shadow war.

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Originally Posted by SeeknDestroy

Its okay i understand many of the MMOers here want their game to play a certain way thats fine. PC side you are the majority. Im just giving a heads up that this issue will be popping up in mass as the consolers who will be primarily coming from a shooter mentality will definitely voicing an opposing view.

many will be rude and not even remotely as coherent and thoughtful in their arguments as i am trying to be. Im just saying that i wouldn't consider this matter settled by any means especially since few if any consolers have had a voice in the direction of this game yet.

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im sure there will be, along with people who will complain pve is to easy, pve is to hard, pvp is to boring and pvp is to imbalanced. same as any game.

welcome to the internet :)

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Originally Posted by SeeknDestroy

Edit- You dont need safe areas if you simply arent "opted in" to the conflict. Beside a tag system they could in theory make it a selectable option that can be turned on/off should a player wish to PVE/Coop in peace.

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the opt in, opt out idea basically, is shadow war.


i can see what you are trying to get at, but defiance is not a game that it would fit into. in a perfect world with a perfect dev team, making it with infinite funds. then yes i agree i would love to see open pvp. it just wont work here

I think its short sighted and it can work. But then again now ive found info that a future DLC will possibly allow for guild/clan wars that will be really nice to see.

When that drops thats where i would like to see open world PVP against anyone who joins a clan/guild that looks to do exactly that type of PVP.

Obviously it cant be on/off i anticipated those responses of how it can be abused i forgot to say that the on/off system would have to be on a timer so it cant be done repetitively abused.

Regardless we will see how this happens if the DLC delivers it. What im saying about the shadow war aspect is this. Why make it an instance at all. If its something players want to opt into and play why not just make it an aspect of the game where if you choose to pursue it you open yourself to gank from the rival side at any time during open world exploration.

It seems more like a way for PVEers to have their cake and eat it too at the expense of PVPers who again will be the primary driving force console side.

Open world conflict will make its way to Defiance eventually i know it can and im going to push hard for it, because i have faith in trion they can pull it off even if its as a DLC.

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Originally Posted by SeeknDestroy

Regardless we will see how this happens if the DLC delivers it. What im saying about the shadow war aspect is this. Why make it an instance at all. If its something players want to opt into and play why not just make it an aspect of the game where if you choose to pursue it you open yourself to gank from the rival side at any time during open world exploration..

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shadow war isnt instanced? who told you that. its open world like you say. you see it happening, even when doing pve missions in the area. couple of buttons and your in, like an opt in.

guild war excites me. best of all the worlds, if your guildwants war, it does it. if you dont you leave, or you fight. at least you hae the choice to play the game as intended.

sooo when Trion makes "PvE game first PvP second" Xbox players will make it into "PvP first and PvE second" good thinking.

Opt-in by joining the queue. You aren't forcibly teleported anywhere if what i remember is true. The difference is that you are waiting for an opponent. Sure you will have to travel to get into the main battle but on the way, off anyone you see from the other team. If I am mistaken, ignore this. Either way, I am not understanding the issue with joining a queue to get what you want. Shadow Wars take place in the open world. Everyone involved will be flagged. Shoot the **** out of everyone you can. Console or PC there are going to be people that are looking to PvP at all times. I really don't understand the issue. Is it that you can't flag and just run around at all times? This isn't the game for that. There are plenty of games you can go play that are strictly pvp/shooters. If that's all you are looking for in a game, pick one of those. If you want to play Defiance then play Defiance according to what's in game. If you play the game and don't like it there will be no hard feelings. The hardcore shooter crowd isn't the whole of the gaming community. Drop the preconceptions and play the game for what it is not for what you want it to be. Or don't. Just don't fool yourself into thinking that your opinion is anything more than your opinion.

Because PVP ques have been done to death. Its the premise of every "shooter" que up for a match play PVP and have nothing to play for other than W/L, KDR and some other meaningless stats.

Why do i quote Dust, Destiny, Defiance as the 3 D's because one of them will Deliver us to the future. I see this game as more than just an MMO i also see a shooter. A shooter than can be played in a large open world "sandbox" this is what Dust should be and may one day actually be. That said Defiance infrastructure in place to allow for open world conflict today.

You rigorously defend the PVE aspect of the MMO and act as if thats the only thing this game has to be. Why constrain the game to such a narrow aspect, when it can be so much more. What is about any of my suggestions that takes away from or hinders your gameplay experience or you're ability to PVE without grief/gank? Nothing.

Now name me one game "console" side that delivers the potential of what this game can provide "red dead redemption" is about the only one and that's about it and even there it was meh. This game looks and feels a whole lot better.

Lastly i dont want PVP as a isolated battle arena game that's been done to death, i want actions and consequence to PVP beyond playing an isolated objective based "gamemode" i want to see the possibility of player driven conflict in a shooter thats the next step to take the shooting genre into the future. Why does PVP conflict have to remain an organized "colonial-era" type of affair. It show occur organically and at anytime. Especially if you want the game to succeed console side. This model works well for the PC community and it will definitely grab a audience console side.

That may be my opinion but its one based on market trends, and the shared comments and opinions of numerous gamers that i speak to or read forum posts of from various gaming sites. If you read and read and read you will see what people are saying and what they are looking for in their shooter experience.

This game isnt just a MMO its also a "shooter" and its the shooter audience console side is a different beast, its mainly a PVP audience and it has to be more than just lets que up a match, build up our character and oh wait we're maxed character, lets build our kdr and stat pad. Sigh im on top of the boards guess its time to move on. You need a longer lasting and larger hook. The tv show and PVE mmo aspect of it will help but is it enough? I think the real hook is player driven conflict.

But at this point clearly im outnumbered at this point. I'll wait till more of my "kind" make their way here it won't be long now.

BUt i appreciate the discourse and conversation.