No Refunds for Game. No matter what.

After a few days of emails (to see what was going on) the chat finally worked today and I got through to Trion about my 360 game. I managed to log in the first day but hadn't managed to since then due to server errors and updates. I requested a refund and was told that I had to return my opened game to the retailer. Granted, no retailer takes any opened game back. I understand the retailer side on this one because the product they sold was functioning, but there needs to be some flex room on the server side. When a company puts out a product that clearly was not working (even if only in select cases) there needs to be a refund policy. I wanted a game I could enjoy in the evenings and unwind but I found myself playing Fifa after spending 30 mins of logging in and waiting to get online to always get the Service is Down screen.

I was told that since I had not purchased it directly from Trion Worlds (honestly, who buys their games from the companies?) there could be no refund. So they would get to keep the cash for a game I could not play.

I understand this is going to be jumped on by people who will say the same thing about it being an MMO and you have to wait, but I didn't buy a game and install it before the servers came online to get 4 hours of gameplay the first day and no more for the next week.

Just let it be known that if the servers go down for weeks or if something goes wrong it will be Trion's practice to say it was your fault for being excited about the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JONNY

After a few days of emails (to see what was going on) the chat finally worked today and I got through to Trion about my 360 game. I managed to log in the first day but hadn't managed to since then due to server errors and updates. I requested a refund and was told that I had to return my opened game to the retailer. Granted, no retailer takes any opened game back. I understand the retailer side on this one because the product they sold was functioning, but there needs to be some flex room on the server side. When a company puts out a product that clearly was not working (even if only in select cases) there needs to be a refund policy. I wanted a game I could enjoy in the evenings and unwind but I found myself playing Fifa after spending 30 mins of logging in and waiting to get online to always get the Service is Down screen.

I was told that since I had not purchased it directly from Trion Worlds (honestly, who buys their games from the companies?) there could be no refund. So they would get to keep the cash for a game I could not play.

I understand this is going to be jumped on by people who will say the same thing about it being an MMO and you have to wait, but I didn't buy a game and install it before the servers came online to get 4 hours of gameplay the first day and no more for the next week.

Just let it be known that if the servers go down for weeks or if something goes wrong it will be Trion's practice to say it was your fault for being excited about the game.

---

understandable man. theyve done some pretty crappy things although people love worshipping them for "letting us know what's going on." we know what the hell is going on, and their priorities are messed up, and it's ridiculous they can't even get the servers running for everyone. but whatever, i want to say it is what it is, but for some people that means theyre out a lot of money. I'm bummed that after a week of playtime (not even spending endless hours a day) I have basically nothing left to do in the game, and I'm barely ego 500. so what, I can just grind for the next week trying to get that one orange weapon ? too bad nothing I do in the game rewards me. There's no loot in instances, you barely get crap for doing side quests or anything else, and mobs drop maybe 2 scrip. So after doing over 100 side missions, I have MAYBE 10,000 scrip? It's great.

TL: DR - I'm sorry. I hear for you. Trion makes me mad and I don't believe I'll be supporting them in the future.

then you know your in the wrong. it is common practice for mmo's to launch sloppy, NO ONE expects a smooth launch from an mmo. if you do not have the patience to put up with it, wait a month and THEN get the game. if you at that point are still having problems, you have a right to complain.

temper your excitement with reality; the rest of us adults did.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my name Trion has nothing to do with the developer Trion worlds entertainment, i have been trion since before trion was trion. my name comes from FFXI; it is pronounced Tree-Ahn.

There are a lot of gamers right now that are starting to get into the mindset of "buy it, try it, refund it."

That does not work. If you have no patience for an online game that has servers then stop buying online games. It's your mistake and you should learn from it instead of repeating it.

I for one love this game so much that if I had to wait a week to play it, even now, i would still be happy to wait that as long as I got to play it again some time in the future. It is that good.

So I'm sorry if I don't understand what your problem is fully, you have fun dealing with it. I don't think they're going to bow down to your every need when you're in the "refunder" club.

Try asking them for compensation, like a few in game bits (money) to spend or something. I'm sure that is something they can appreciate and maybe even consider offering. But demanding a refund just shows who you are.

It doesn't matter if it is an MMO or a Board Game. The man bought a product that is not working as advertised. I think he should get a FULL refund and an apology.

Putting aside the whole idea of you not understanding what kind of game you bought, why exactly would you buy a game in one place, then try to get a refund from another? O.o

Let it be known that refunds generally come from the place where you spent your money, if you get a refund at all.

I'd tell you to send me your game so I could give it to a friend, because I love it and want more of my friends to try it, but I don't know anyone who has a 360 anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trion

then you know your in the wrong. it is common practice for mmo's to launch sloppy, NO ONE expects a smooth launch from an mmo. if you do not have the patience to put up with it, wait a month and THEN get the game. if you at that point are still having problems, you have a right to complain.

temper your excitement with reality; the rest of us adults did.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my name Trion has nothing to do with the developer Trion worlds entertainment, i have been trion since before trion was trion. my name comes from FFXI; it is pronounced Tree-Ahn.

---

this is ignorant for the sheer fact that this game is not an MMO. it's a decently sized open world 3rd person online only shooter. It is hardly an MMO in any of the ways that ever make a game an MMO ( and no, not just MMORPG's). So hiding behind the fact of "oh well, it's an MMO so it has a bad launch" is just foolish. I think they tried to get both PC and console gamers excited by enticing console gamers with a console oriented "MMO" and telling the PC MMO players that they have a new sort of idea, but this sir, is in fact NOT an MMO. So, your argument is invalid. but good job "adult."

You still cant play?

Sorry but I think its on your end somewhere. I have 10 friends playing this pretty regularly and the past three days other the random disconnects at times and server downtime we all have been able to log in whenever we want.

Youre internet setup could be the culprit, things like your nat or various other things because as far as I know the 360 version has been running well enough that you saying you still cant evrn play seems more like someone disappointed in the game or is upset due to reasonable issues regarding connectivity and wants a refund.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluegobln

But demanding a refund just shows who you are.

---

haha yes, demanding a refund when you can't use the product shows what a terrible immature human being you are. Get off your high horse.

If you buy a car, and expect to be able to drive it, and it wont start up for an entire week, and you can't take it anywhere, then you want your money back. you're not a fool for buying a new car and expecting it to work, and you're not an entitled brat. You're simply a human being that put your money and faith into a product that let you down, and you feel betrayed. This sort of interaction is what garners brand loyalty and why some companies fail and others are extremely successful, because of how the consumer responds to them.

Go preach elsewhere fanboy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bleuzarro

this is ignorant for the sheer fact that this game is not an MMO. it's a decently sized open world 3rd person online only shooter. It is hardly an MMO in any of the ways that ever make a game an MMO ( and no, not just MMORPG's). So hiding behind the fact of "oh well, it's an MMO so it has a bad launch" is just foolish. I think they tried to get both PC and console gamers excited by enticing console gamers with a console oriented "MMO" and telling the PC MMO players that they have a new sort of idea, but this sir, is in fact NOT an MMO. So, your argument is invalid. but good job "adult."

---

Not to be a know it all but when theres 100 guys at an Arkfall thats abput as Massive Multiplayer Online as you can get.

I would agree it really lacks for anything besides the Arkfalls and random world encounters that is MMO but it is one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bleuzarro

this is ignorant for the sheer fact that this game is not an MMO. it's a decently sized open world 3rd person online only shooter. It is hardly an MMO in any of the ways that ever make a game an MMO ( and no, not just MMORPG's). So hiding behind the fact of "oh well, it's an MMO so it has a bad launch" is just foolish. I think they tried to get both PC and console gamers excited by enticing console gamers with a console oriented "MMO" and telling the PC MMO players that they have a new sort of idea, but this sir, is in fact NOT an MMO. So, your argument is invalid. but good job "adult."

---

I agree with this , this game is not a mmo . If this game is a mmo then so is RDR.

I hate to begin sounding like a PC Elitist here (I try not to be.) But I have noticed the majority of people complaining about things not working or wanting refunds are the console gamers.

I hate to break it to you, but be patient. This is one of THE FIRST MMO's that has been released cross-platform. It's going to take time for them to get the servers to properly work for consoles.

And I also hate to sound like a jerk here, but it seems a lot of the whiney console gamers just aren't used to MMO's having bugs and issues during the first month of launch because they've never had to deal with it.

Once again, just be patient. Keep it, then play it once it's known that the majority of console gamers can play the game. I mean, what other console games can you fight a BAM (Big-A Monster) with 100+ other people? None.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ceois

It doesn't matter if it is an MMO or a Board Game. The man bought a product that is not working as advertised. I think he should get a FULL refund and an apology.

---

Going by that logic, many advertised products should be returnable for a full refund. I don't know anyone whose life has been changed by (Product X) as much as the makers of (Product X) generally advertise it will be.

The game (disk) itself is fine (functioning). If you buy a TV set and your cable goes out, you don't feel that the TV is responsible. It is your lousy cable company. In this case the Cable company manufactured the TV set as well before sending it to the vendor.

As for the buy it, try it, return it concept.... I have a feeling that there is a huge difference between entirely online games and ones that have a single player mode. Without online there is no product in this case. Very different from somebody that bought COD and couldn't log onto multi-player for a week. This is not even worth turning on because nothing can be done if there is no network.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nerdy Ryuu

I agree with this , this game is not a mmo . If this game is a mmo then so is RDR.

---

I mostly disagree with these comments. It -is- an MMO. However, it does lack a few things that need to help it be better. (needs a better chat window for instance) as well as better rewards for doing instances, and perhaps some more variance of raids. Which I bet they will implement further down the road. Sorry, but as someone already said having 100+ people at an Ark-Fall is pretty darned telling of an MMO (Last time I checked, it stands for Massive Multiplayer Online)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bleuzarro

haha yes, demanding a refund when you can't use the product shows what a terrible immature human being you are. Get off your high horse.

If you buy a car, and expect to be able to drive it, and it wont start up for an entire week, and you can't take it anywhere, then you want your money back. you're not a fool for buying a new car and expecting it to work, and you're not an entitled brat. You're simply a human being that put your money and faith into a product that let you down, and you feel betrayed. This sort of interaction is what garners brand loyalty and why some companies fail and others are extremely successful, because of how the consumer responds to them.

Go preach elsewhere fanboy.

---

If cars generally don't start for a week, then you're a fool for buying one and expecting it to do so. MMOs generally have rocky launches. Research what you are buying before you buy it, and you won't need a refund when it's not what you expected it to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dunnomatic

Not to be a know it all but when theres 100 guys at an Arkfall thats abput as Massive Multiplayer Online as you can get.

I would agree it really lacks for anything besides the Arkfalls and random world encounters that is MMO but it is one.

---

in the literal sense of it being a decent amount of people being online and playing the game, but in any other sense of what an MMO is, it is not. besides a bunch of people circle jerking and pew pewing to an arkfall, there is no interaction between players. there doesnt even have to be communication in order to get anything done. it's simply stand alongside another human being and click "shoot."

I did thank the guy in support and offered to sell him my copy for $60 plus shipping.

He kindly refused and noted that the shipping costs would be a little steep. lol. funny guy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JONNY

I did thank the guy in support and offered to sell him my copy for $60 plus shipping.

He kindly refused and noted that the shipping costs would be a little steep. lol. funny guy.

---

I know you prolly hate hearing/reading this but, give it time, it'll sort out, and you'll love it. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 6Strummer

If cars generally don't start for a week, then you're a fool for buying one and expecting it to do so. MMOs generally have rocky launches. Research what you are buying before you buy it, and you won't need a refund when it's not what you expected it to be.

---

hahaha please, for the love of god, tell me how he was supposed to research and predict that for a solid week he wouldn't be able to play the game? when most people buy a game on launch? and when has anyone not been able to play a game for a solid week because of consistent login errors? I'm sorry, wasn't aware that sort of research existed, when the problem isn't a common one.

and you sir are a fool if you think all i was saying there is "expecting a car to start after it hasn't for a week." I'm sorry, I thought the analogy was simplistic enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bleuzarro

hahaha please, for the love of god, tell me how he was supposed to research and predict that for a solid week he wouldn't be able to play the game? when most people buy a game on launch? and when has anyone not been able to play a game for a solid week because of consistent login errors? I'm sorry, wasn't aware that sort of research existed, when the problem isn't a common one.

and you sir are a fool if you think all i was saying there is "expecting a car to start after it hasn't for a week." I'm sorry, I thought the analogy was simplistic enough.

---

Diablo 3. WoW Launch. Age of Conan. The Secret World. SW:TOR

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taaltos

I know you prolly hate hearing/reading this but, give it time, it'll sort out, and you'll love it. :)

---

until once he finally plays it, after playing it for a week, he runs out of content and is suddenly exceptionally disheartened.

Honestly OP, I would go ahead and trade it in while you can still get decent value for it and pick up anything else. It may take awhile, and once you've waited a month, you won't be able to get much money for it in order to pick up anything else decent. At least if you trade it in now you should be able to get $40, and then could buy Dead island riptide in two weeks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taaltos

Diablo 3. WoW Launch. Age of Conan. The Secret World. SW:TOR

---

First of all, Age of Conan? Really?

D3 was in fact playable. They had problems, but it was always playable. NOT FOR A SOLID WEEK.

WoW, I've been a part of several launches, and never seen issues like this.

IF you got your game from amazon , they will give u a full refund.

if you want a refund, you go to the person you gave the money to, it's as simple as that. why should trion refund you the price you paid at a retailer? gamestop didn't give trion 60$, why should trion give you $60?

Lots of people buy directly from the company that produces it, it's pretty common with pc software, especially when it's easy digital downloads.

as you admit, no retailer will take back opened software, and why should trion? yes, there are a few bugs, but they're working those out. the only problem here is that you've been inconvenienced, and there will likely be some sort of compensation when the first major patch goes live.

remember that your recent purchase isn't a one-time, complete game. the game is constantly being updated with FREE content and new/enhanced features. what you purchased will always be in a constant state of improvement. just be patient.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bleuzarro

hahaha please, for the love of god, tell me how he was supposed to research and predict that for a solid week he wouldn't be able to play the game? when most people buy a game on launch? and when has anyone not been able to play a game for a solid week because of consistent login errors? I'm sorry, wasn't aware that sort of research existed, when the problem isn't a common one.

and you sir are a fool if you think all i was saying there is "expecting a car to start after it hasn't for a week." I'm sorry, I thought the analogy was simplistic enough.

---

So what exactly do you actually expect to come of this forum post?

What is your purpose for coming here? You won't get any faster response or refund, and you wont likely get anything from Trion here publicly (and I highly doubt privately either).

Why are you here?

Oh... is it to bad mouth the game because you feel betrayed? You realize why you feel betrayed right? It is because you had unreasonable expectations for the game and they weren't designing it to meet YOUR expectations, they were designing it to meet their own goals.

Lets see, where in this is the problem? Oh, its you. You're the problem. You made your own problem out of nothing. I have no problem. The guy posting earlier had no problem, and his many friends playing on 360's and so on also had no problems. Looks to me like its your problem.

Why don't you deal with your problem and stop bringing it here. I hope you get your refund, but I also don't think for a second you wont make mistakes like this over and over again when you purchase games. See ya. *rude*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bleuzarro

First of all, Age of Conan? Really?

D3 was in fact playable. They had problems, but it was always playable. NOT FOR A SOLID WEEK.

WoW, I've been a part of several launches, and never seen issues like this.

---

WoW Vanilla Launch. Weeks.

Age of Conan, yes, that was a highly anticipated game, and it was unplayable for at least a weak.

D3 was not playable, most people couldn't even log in for a week.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taaltos

Diablo 3. WoW Launch. Age of Conan. The Secret World. SW:TOR

---

Those are much bigger games , and are really mmo's Defiance is as much as a mmo as red dead redemption. That game MP alone has more content and is bigger then defiance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ziajin

I hate to begin sounding like a PC Elitist here (I try not to be.) But I have noticed the majority of people complaining about things not working or wanting refunds are the console gamers.

I hate to break it to you, but be patient. This is one of THE FIRST MMO's that has been released cross-platform. It's going to take time for them to get the servers to properly work for consoles.

And I also hate to sound like a jerk here, but it seems a lot of the whiney console gamers just aren't used to MMO's having bugs and issues during the first month of launch because they've never had to deal with it.

Once again, just be patient. Keep it, then play it once it's known that the majority of console gamers can play the game. I mean, what other console games can you fight a BAM (Big-A Monster) with 100+ other people? None.

---

There are definitely PC elitists in these forums, but this post doesn't qualify. You're right. Console gamers generally don't know what to expect with an MMO. They just saw the game was a TPS they could play with their friends and bought it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nerdy Ryuu

Those are much bigger games , and are really mmo's Defiance is as much as a mmo as red dead redemption. That game MP alone has more content and is bigger then defiance.

---

It doesn't really make a lick of difference. The business side of it is that Defiance is an MMO. You can argue mechanics all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that a key is registered and tied to an account just like that of Guild Wars 2.

This is an MMO when it comes down to how it's monetized.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nerdy Ryuu

Those are much bigger games , and are really mmo's Defiance is as much as a mmo as red dead redemption. That game MP alone has more content and is bigger then defiance.

---

You must have played a different RDR than I did.

Picked it up at Walmart at Midnight before the launch. BTW I already dumped the game off on an acquaintance for about half of what I paid for it. Gamestop is offering a whole $22 for it. After reading the message board on the lack of content and the repetitious play I decided it wasn't nice of me to force the game on a friend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nerdy Ryuu

Those are much bigger games , and are really mmo's Defiance is as much as a mmo as red dead redemption. That game MP alone has more content and is bigger then defiance.

---

Defiance is a MMO. It's freakin' massively multiplayer. It has strong RPG elements. Very sandboxy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ceois

It doesn't matter if it is an MMO or a Board Game. The man bought a product that is not working as advertised. I think he should get a FULL refund and an apology.

---

in general, a product that doesn't work as intended doesn't entitle anyone to a refund, it would depend on the warranty or guarantee provided with the item. in this case, the software does work, it's working as advertised. the OP is upset because he experienced server outages, which is relatively common for a product requiring a constant internet connection to function.

Anyone who demands money back for a crappy launch of a MMO YES IT'S AN MMO dispite what you might think!
Is just dumb, Praise Trion for letting us know? Not really, just saying "Thanks for being a good company."

You probably don't play mmo games much huh....the people that do, and like this game will defend it...what you expect the game not to have fans? Right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bleuzarro

until once he finally plays it, after playing it for a week, he runs out of content and is suddenly exceptionally disheartened.

---

there will be new content added in a week.... and regularly after that.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bluegobln

So what exactly do you actually expect to come of this forum post?

What is your purpose for coming here? You won't get any faster response or refund, and you wont likely get anything from Trion here publicly (and I highly doubt privately either).

Why are you here?

Oh... is it to bad mouth the game because you feel betrayed? You realize why you feel betrayed right? It is because you had unreasonable expectations for the game and they weren't designing it to meet YOUR expectations, they were designing it to meet their own goals.

Lets see, where in this is the problem? Oh, its you. You're the problem. You made your own problem out of nothing. I have no problem. The guy posting earlier had no problem, and his many friends playing on 360's and so on also had no problems. Looks to me like its your problem.

Why don't you deal with your problem and stop bringing it here. I hope you get your refund, but I also don't think for a second you wont make mistakes like this over and over again when you purchase games. See ya. *rude*

---

completely confused by this comment. I wasn't asking for a refund? I was simply defending OP because everyone gangs up on someone when they get frustrated with this ****.

I know what I got myself into, but I had low hopes for the game anyway. I just wanted to give it a try, and i'll see what new content it comes out with.

But thanks for letting me know how you feel about my life choices and all the mistakes I'll make in the future.

I don't have a problem btw. but this one made me laugh. Thanks Gob.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 6Strummer

There are definitely PC elitists in these forums, but this post doesn't qualify. You're right. Console gamers generally don't know what to expect with an MMO. They just saw the game was a TPS they could play with their friends and bought it.

---

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000

"But I couldn't just put the disc in and play!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JONNY

Picked it up at Walmart at Midnight before the launch. BTW I already dumped the game off on an acquaintance for about half of what I paid for it. Gamestop is offering a whole $22 for it. After reading the message board on the lack of content and the repetitious play I decided it wasn't nice of me to force the game on a friend.

---

haha clearly even gamestop realizes it's not worth ****. that's hilarious.