Nerfing guns that sucked from the start

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Originally Posted by Zoridium JackL

which still put most of them behind my pump, with few doing more damage, barely even close to enough to even think about justifying the trade-off.

if it's not OHKing most standard enemies and almost OHKing most other things it isn't doing nearly enough .

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I don't think you have ever fired one and looked at the damage side by side.

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Originally Posted by Schwa

Of all the PVE changes, I have to admit the LMG nerf was needed... for certain LMGs. Too much content could be completed using ONLY that weapon.

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I disagree. A lot of content can be done with AR only. Even with the falloff, a SMG can do the trick pretty nicely to ! So what ? When we have a weapon that works fine we need to nerf it ? That's balance ? Having only meh weapons because we are scared to have a nice one ?
The saw was fine. Yes it was a powerful weapon, but it wasn't op. Nerf it, and everyone will play with an AR. Then they'll nerf AR. Then the next weapon in line, until you get back to LMG, and start nerfing again.

So why is everyone crying? This game does what most can't and makes damage more focused on a build rather than getting some gun in game! It's a challenge and frankly is more fun that just getting the best weapon and owning everything. On top of that, few guns are getting nerfed. The sawed off I'm not concerned with, nor anything else.

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Originally Posted by Rhorge

I don't think you have ever fired one and looked at the damage side by side.

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I fire every single one I find, in case you haven't noticed I would very much like to replace my pump with one, they fit my usual play style so much better and I much prefer the aesthetic, but every single time they have been practically useless, my pump has out performed them in every aspect which is very disappointing.

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Originally Posted by RHA Defiled

So why is everyone crying? This game does what most can't and makes damage more focused on a build rather than getting some gun in game! It's a challenge and frankly is more fun that just getting the best weapon and owning everything. On top of that, few guns are getting nerfed. The sawed off I'm not concerned with, nor anything else.

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basically since they aren't touching the guns you like or that fit your build you're happy? if only everybody was you, and the major complaint is they are nerfing things which aren't the most powerful, which is the fastest way to make those guns that are more important then your build.

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Originally Posted by Jeronan

I am just baffled that in this day (year 2013) they are still unable to Balance (nerf) stuff for PVP only! without hurting PVE!

So everyone is going to run around with LMG's coming 15th! I was already using it as primary weapon, but now I have even less reason to switch!

Just stupid! Devs never learn!

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My guess is you are running around with a SAW which is currently rather ridiculous in dmg output. that one will be nerfed. the other LMGs are kinda **** in comparison to the saw. Those will get buffs. :-)

i always felt that they should isolate the PvE weps from PvP weps... maybe have an armory at the beginning of PvP that you select PvP weps from would be a solution

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Originally Posted by velvet

So our first big game patch will nerf most guns in the game........in PVE

Why don't the just hand us a plastic space blaster so we can shoot foam balls at the baddies.......

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Your statement is incorrect. Few guns were actually nerfed. Sawed off shotguns were ( but not the many other shotgun types/models which are numerous). Some of the launchers have had their damage lowered (I never use them anyways), While most LMG's were buffed, only one was slightly nerfed (The FRC LMG now has a lower rate of fire). The only nerf I disagree with (at least in PVE) is nerfing the infectors... Pistols, combat shotguns, pumpshotgus, assault rifles, Sub machine guns, etc. were not nerfed so it would seem (rough guess?) that less than maybe 10 % were nerfed.

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Originally Posted by Mechman

Your statement is incorrect. Few guns were actually nerfed. Sawed off shotguns were ( but not the many other shotgun types/models which are numerous). Some of the launchers have had their damage lowered (I never use them anyways), While most LMG's were buffed, only one was slightly nerfed (The FRC LMG now has a lower rate of fire). The only nerf I disagree with (at least in PVE) is nerfing the infectors... Pistols, combat shotguns, pumpshotgus, assault rifles, Sub machine guns, etc. were not nerfed so it would seem (rough guess?) that less than maybe 10 % were nerfed.

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just wait when everyone flocks to other guns instead
next patch NERF

That what they did in rift

it will be weapon of the week/month nerfs until everything goes to hell

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Originally Posted by Karzak

just wait when everyone flocks to other guns instead
next patch NERF

That what they did in rift

it will be weapon of the week/month nerfs until everything goes to hell

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Yeah this seems to happen in nearly all mmo's, problem is that with most of these nerfs is they only really affect pvp and therefore pve gets shafted as usual :(

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Originally Posted by Evilution

Yeah this seems to happen in nearly all mmo's, problem is that with most of these nerfs is they only really affect pvp and therefore pve gets shafted as usual :(

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I love this game.. I love the absolute hell out of it...

But I am sick and freaking tired of MMO devs nerfing PvE stuff because of PvP. There is no freaking sense in it whatsoever. It is otoo easy to make the weapons have stats for PvP and seperate stats for PvE.

Lazy development. Lazy, and, once again, people that thoroughly enjoy the PvE are going to have to suffer the nerf bat because of something that they have nothing to do with and probably not even an interest in (I, for one, fit that bill.)

It's all pointless and stupid without a complete overhaul to the entire weapon system and figuring out where each weapon falls in place in the system. So lets say they nerf the ridiculously OP Shotgun for PvP or ridiculously OP SAW for PvE. All that's going to happen is the next best thing is going to come along and take over.

I can already tell you there are a number of Assault Rifles that are almost on par with the SAW LMG that will be next up as the "next best thing" after a nerf. This still won't address a number of the low damage higher ROF weapons that are generally worthless because they go through ammo too quickly to be on par. I would love to use a Tachmag Pulsar but unless I'm joined at the hip to an Ammo box it just isn't viable. The same 75 ammo I can unload in 2 seconds to kill 1 or 2 things could be used to kill 10 things with a Rifle or LMG.

I also already do extremely well in most PvP patches with a Pump Action Shotgun with a super high Nano Chance % with Electricity. In fact I don't think I've ever been killed by a sawn-off because if you miss you're dead. Looking back at my few matches it was always a pump action, combat shotgun, or assault rifle that got me.

Infectors were pretty strong. The little bugs were jumping around hitting things for 600 and were the easiest ways to kill Hellbug Warriors since they always hit for full damage bypassing their reduction.

However after experiencing RIFT, can't say I'm surprised. We're probably going to have the pendulum of balance changes swinging around wildly as they reactively nerf everything that gets used at all till they eventually calm down and realize that they'll never get ahead of player's perception at what is best.

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Originally Posted by Zoridium JackL

basically since they aren't touching the guns you like or that fit your build you're happy? if only everybody was you, and the major complaint is they are nerfing things which aren't the most powerful, which is the fastest way to make those guns that are more important then your build.

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basically since they are touching the guns you like or that fit your build you're unhappy?

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Originally Posted by TooMad

basically since they are touching the guns you like or that fit your build you're unhappy?

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If I thought it was the right move I wouldn't complain now would I?

my point is you are saying they should ignore feedback because it doesn't apply to you, it does however apply to other people and they have the right to complain. some of the things being nerfed don't need to be nerfed and if anything need to be buffed, they fact that if I make a SAW build I'll be fine doesn't change the fact that I should be able to make a sawn-off build and still stand some semblance of a chance of being somewhat able. saying the game revolves around your build and weapon choice is stupid if it only does so for minimal builds. there's a difference between making viable builds a challenge to create and making all but a few specific types of builds crap.

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Originally Posted by Prey

1 week in and nerf bat on weapons has swung! Wow is all I can say. Maybe fix issues the game has before nerfing things in game.
80% of your playerbase is still trying to figure out the mechanics of the game.

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The same thing happen to SWTOR, heavy nerfs on the first patch while BW keep teasing with new content coming soon, but it never land, until its too late. Look how fast SWTOR go down. Don't go that way, Trion.

On the patch notes, what do the black bullets mean versus the white bullets?

Also, not a big fan of infector (it's so fun), lmg (except saw) and ar nerfs. Shotgun is so much burst that I knew it would be "balanced" at some point.

STrike the lmg comment, buffing lmgs is yay!

I am a bit sad that my infector get nerf , but i like trion for doing so and not waiting 2month before nerfing overpower stuff ... infector are still gonna be good but not as godly as before .

● Lowered damage output of sawed off shotguns. ( this i don't understand , i found sawed off shotguns weak xD )

but oh well , keep the nerf and buff coming to have our playground balance =D

BUT - decoys will now have shields? wow!

I don't see a "nerf" everyone is crying about I see them fixing the game but no nerf... I guess when you use your skills to play video games you don't notice when they fix things to balance it out more.

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Originally Posted by DeMoted

I don't see a "nerf" everyone is crying about I see them fixing the game but no nerf... I guess when you use your skills to play video games you don't notice when they fix things to balance it out more.

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what do you think a nerf is? decreasing damage, and they are doing that to 3 different weapons.

and what skill is really needed for this game, its laughably easy as it is.

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Originally Posted by fishboy11

what do you think a nerf is? decreasing damage, and they are doing that to 3 different weapons.

and what skill is really needed for this game, its laughably easy as it is.

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Then why are you crying about it if this game is so easy? I guess you're not as good as you think.

i'm not crying about it at all. if you go through the pages this is my first post in this thread, you were the one that was flashing your e-peen to try and show off your "skill" i dont use either of the nerfed weapons.

and saying you didnt see any nerfs when there are 3 text book examples of nerfs in the patch notes

i just dont like people that hijack threads and try to say they are better than others

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Originally Posted by fishboy11

i'm not crying about it at all. if you go through the pages this is my first post in this thread, you were the one that was flashing your e-peen to try and show off your "skill"

and saying you didnt see any nerfs when there are 3 text book examples of nerfs in the patch notes

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I didn't show off anything you were the one that quoted me and mentioned it.

Yeah, I'm a bit disappointed about infectors being nerfed. Beyond hellbugs, parasites only served to distract the enemy. Now that they have reduced damage and movement speed, I worry the parasites may no longer be useful for killing hellbug warriors quicker.

Least they didn't touch my FRC SAW, my greatest weapon ever.

Nerf the Saw, sawed off and infectors. The PS3 is pretty barren the majority of the day, thank you for giving the rest of us a reason to leave. How about fix the synergy cache? Why the fudge do I get a brutal synergy mod every time? This is the only game where the majority of players don't understand jack about it, nothing makes sense. A weapon at ego 10 is just as good as a weapon at ego 2000. You rip off borderlands color code for weapons but forget to make them actually better. We cannot get the synergy mods that are need to make epic and legendary weapons better.

Tier 4 boxes still have green useless crap in them. Major Arkfall loot online gives shield's and grenades. Vendor's sell pistol mods for special's 80 percent of the time, also why the fudge would anyone buy a pink Hannibal? Why is this as a special instead of a weapon? Why are the loadouts so fudged up? It took me awhile to figure out that I couldn't sell a weapon because it was randomly put on my loadout.

Do what you want with your game. You want to make it crap and keep it crap then ok. Only reason why people on the 360 brought this is because they have no games until the next cod.

To be fair, Swarm Cannons objectively needed a nerf. They were hitting monarchs for double their max damage through armor.

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Originally Posted by Zascha

There is a reason why Infectors are being nerfed. If you think they are "the suck" then you aren't using them correctly. Infectors are a problem - in Arkfalls. If you use an Infector on the Arkfall weakspots - you've pretty much guaranteed your spot at the top.

They needed a nerf, although, I'm not sure this was the nerf that was needed.

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They don't need a nerf. Being #1 doesn't guarantee any better loot than anyone else. Nerfing them based on Arkfalls is a poor call. They have the shortest range, and their damage is entirely dependent on the head crabs, which don't spawn until you hit 5 times. They are the risk vs. reward weapon. Pretending that they guarantee #1 (which they don't), their value drops in any other combat. Nerfing them drops that value even more.

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Originally Posted by KonnecT

Nerf the Saw, sawed off and infectors. The PS3 is pretty barren the majority of the day, thank you for giving the rest of us a reason to leave. How about fix the synergy cache? Why the fudge do I get a brutal synergy mod every time? This is the only game where the majority of players don't understand jack about it, nothing makes sense. A weapon at ego 10 is just as good as a weapon at ego 2000. You rip off borderlands color code for weapons but forget to make them actually better. We cannot get the synergy mods that are need to make epic and legendary weapons better.

Tier 4 boxes still have green useless crap in them. Major Arkfall loot online gives shield's and grenades. Vendor's sell pistol mods for special's 80 percent of the time, also why the fudge would anyone buy a pink Hannibal? Why is this as a special instead of a weapon? Why are the loadouts so fudged up? It took me awhile to figure out that I couldn't sell a weapon because it was randomly put on my loadout.

Do what you want with your game. You want to make it crap and keep it crap then ok. Only reason why people on the 360 brought this is because they have no games until the next cod.

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This amused me. Thank you. I needed a laugh.

Not only are you incorrect about a few things, but I find it especially funny that the color coding of weapons by rarity (even using the the pretty common standard of white < Green < Blue < Purple < Orange) was apparently invented by Borderlands.

I'd probably reserve the outcry until we have the full patch-notes, but either way, I'd suggest posting in the comment section found here.

All this QQ over preliminary patch notes. Take a breath, and then see if your weapon truly becomes useless after the patch. The changes could be drastic, but they are more likely a "haircut" to bring the behind the scenes numbers in line.

I would use pistols more if they increased their ammo pool in PVE.

Sawed offs nerf is highly needed, going into pvp and being one shot by cloaked peeps is just flat out annoying.

As for the spore guns, i saw this coming awhile back. My and my buddy blow through all the co-ops and open missions with just these. They will clear a room in a heart beat. The only thing they aren't good for are high health mobs like the dude with the packs on their back that you have to shoot up to expose them and boss fights. With spores if you figure out their high point of the bugs then you're a boss. Hit one guy up with spores, let 3 bugs spawn and they will usually kill him with 2 bugs leaving 1 then when he dies he spawns 3 more that seek out the nearest target with you've already spawned 3 bugs on by this point and on to the next. By the time you're onto the 4th guy you've got bugs galore just wipping the floor. This is even better in arkfalls, hit up a few skiterling and have 3 bugs spawn and switch over to the crystal for the week spot and man you've got sooo many bugs running around you will dominate a major arkfall doubling the 2nd best score easily.

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Originally Posted by Warkaiser

This amused me. Thank you. I needed a laugh.

Not only are you incorrect about a few things, but I find it especially funny that the color coding of weapons by rarity (even using the the pretty common standard of white < Green < Blue < Purple < Orange) was apparently invented by Borderlands.

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Are you really going to tell me that this game is not inspired by borderlands? They even use "Ain't no rest for the wicked" at the end of the game.

I don't care if Moses invented the weapon rarity, the only thing different about them are the synergy and mod slot's that are initially available. Major Arkfall's only give grenades and shield's no matter if you're first or last on the leaderboard. What in my post is wrong sir? If you pray to this game before you sleep at night I apologize if I offended your religion. But I'm glad I made you laugh Mr. Warkaiser.

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Originally Posted by KonnecT

Are you really going to tell me that this game is not inspired by borderlands? They even use "Ain't no rest for the wicked" at the end of the game.

I don't care if Moses invented the weapon rarity, the only thing different about them are the synergy and mod slot's that are initially available. Major Arkfall's only give grenades and shield's no matter if you're first or last on the leaderboard. What in my post is wrong sir? If you pray to this game before you sleep at night I apologize if I offended your religion. But I'm glad I made you laugh Mr. Warkaiser.

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We must not be playing the same game because I've gotten far more than just grenades and shields from Arkfalls and I don't know where you are but when I log in there are plenty of people on playing.

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Originally Posted by velvet

So our first big game patch will nerf most guns in the game........in PVE

Why don't the just hand us a plastic space blaster so we can shoot foam balls at the baddies.......

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Are you going to elaborate on your wild statements or just spew random BS out your backside?

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Originally Posted by cassell

Are you going to elaborate on your wild statements or just spew random BS out your backside?

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If you were capable of READING, no one would need to explain... Well I'm sure they still would. ;)

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Originally Posted by cassell

Are you going to elaborate on your wild statements or just spew random BS out your backside?

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So you're claiming the guns that are being nerfed in the patch notes aren't actually getting nerfed and they just put that in there to piss people off and get a rise out of them? or did you just feel like taking pot shots at someone?

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Originally Posted by zapfrog

We must not be playing the same game because I've gotten far more than just grenades and shields from Arkfalls and I don't know where you are but when I log in there are plenty of people on playing.

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Count yourself lucky, I've done at least 50 arkfalls since they added loot to them and I have never seen anything outside of a grenade or a shield. I am not the only one with this issue.

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Originally Posted by KonnecT

Are you really going to tell me that this game is not inspired by borderlands? They even use "Ain't no rest for the wicked" at the end of the game.

I don't care if Moses invented the weapon rarity, the only thing different about them are the synergy and mod slot's that are initially available. Major Arkfall's only give grenades and shield's no matter if you're first or last on the leaderboard. What in my post is wrong sir? If you pray to this game before you sleep at night I apologize if I offended your religion. But I'm glad I made you laugh Mr. Warkaiser.

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I think it's funny that you think that quote came from Borderlands. Clue - It didn't.

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Originally Posted by SweetMadness

If you were capable of READING, no one would need to explain... Well I'm sure they still would. ;)

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This is really ironic, because if you did actually read the patch notes, you see that there will be damage reductions to sawed-off shotguns, cluster launchers, the Northstar flare pistol, and infector bugs. That's it. So the wild assertion that 'nerf most guns in the game' is absolutely rediculous, and does indeed need to be questioned. Most in this thread are wildly assuming that 'adjustments' or 'changes' = nerf. They don't.

Also understand that just because YOU don't see the need, or don't understand why, doesn't mean the change wasn't needed. The developers see the need, so they are making the changes. If you expect them to detail the exact reason for each and every change that they make, you will be sorely disappointed. Welcome to the world of MMO's.

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Originally Posted by Kuldred

This is really ironic, because if you did actually read the patch notes, you see that there will be damage reductions to sawed-off shotguns, cluster launchers, the Northstar flare pistol, and infector bugs. That's it. So the wild assertion that 'nerf most guns in the game' is absolutely rediculous, and does indeed need to be questioned. Most in this thread are wildly assuming that 'adjustments' or 'changes' = nerf. They don't.

Also understand that just because YOU don't see the need, or don't understand why, doesn't mean the change wasn't needed. The developers see the need, so they are making the changes. If you expect them to detail the exact reason for each and every change that they make, you will be sorely disappointed. Welcome to the world of MMO's.

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1. My response was to his hostility. If you don't like it, then ignore me.
2. You're assuming they don't.
3. Devs aren't always right. They're just as human as any one of us.