Lots of Defiance bashing on Steam forums

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Originally Posted by Tzar of kaos

6% in two days,that' not bad.I guess there are less than 6% of Xbox 360 gamers that heard about Defiance. ;)

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It's not 6% of the userbase, it's 6% of an arbitrary goal.

The main reason i like defiance is the fact that it is on the xbox 360.
Firefall could be the best game in the world but because it is not on the xbox i could care less!

I came here to ask a question and stumbled upon this thread.
First off, with such a huge player base you naturally have more trolls than on the average developers forums and also unlike such forums where you mainly have people actually interested in the game you have much more people which just noticed the game on the store page.
Secondly the tiered pre-purchase bonuses are indeed weird. 1 and 3 are fine, but Rift storm legion as second? i mean seriously? you offer a 25€ addon as tier 2 bonus which requires people to buy the main game for another 20€ + the monthly fees and expect people not to complain? Also the goals seem to be a bit odd. Bioshock infinite hit tier 1 within 2 days or so and defiance is stuck on like 6 or 7%, I'd be surprised if it gets anywhere near the second goal.

Now I'm not bashing the game, but if you use the new tiered pre-order bonuses at least make it reasonable.

i thought in Tier 2 you get STORM LEGION + RIFT basic game?! Not sure...
I have decided for me that i stick to my TW-Preorder of the DD. Maybe we get something on top, maybe not... I don´t bother with this anymore. I wish all STEAM-Pre´s all the best and TIER3! Get it on!
Then after all: we will play the same good game :)

No you only get storm legion

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Originally Posted by hansdampf

No you only get storm legion

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Is RIFT a subscription game? At least last time I played was a subscription game, did that change?

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Originally Posted by Kantazo

Is RIFT a subscription game? At least last time I played was a subscription game, did that change?

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According to the steam store it is.

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Originally Posted by hansdampf

According to the steam store it is.

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So if you dont have RIFT why would you (in general no you specifically) care about getting the expansion from Steam? I rather get something else.

A lot of people pre-ordered through the Trion site before Steam was even an option, not too worried about it too much. Also, given the way media works nowadays, any publicity, good or bad, is good for your company. Let them talk about the game, might invoke more people to actually see what Defiance is all about.

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Originally Posted by Kantazo

So if you dont have RIFT why would you (in general no you specifically) care about getting the expansion from Steam? I rather get something else.

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That's what i was talking about, it doesn't make a lot of sense. A bonus is meant to be a reward and not something that forces you to buy another game (which additionally is a subscription game) if you wanna use it.

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Originally Posted by Kantazo

I play Firefall and believe me I like more what I see in Defiance, not saying FF is bad, just that Defiance stands on its own two feet without need to bash another game.

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I'm on the other side of the fence. I've played both, but I prefer the direction of Firefall as a game and the how Red5 operates much more than how Defiance is being handled by Trion (can't comment freely on the game), even if Defiance is further along in development. I take issue with the assumption that this is some sort of FF defense brigade as suggested by that last bit. It's simply people who are unhappy with Defiance for one reason or another using a similar game as an alternative. They don't have to be unhappy about specific gameplay features, they can be unhappy about any number of things that are known about the game from the business model to the design decisions as to what type of game it is, to it's marketing. No different than people pointing to Path of Exile or Torchlight 2 when complaining about Diablo 3. FF stands on it's own feet well enough (well, it doesn't so much stand as jetpack through the air willy nilly)

I will agree though, the steam discussion forums are more or less useless. While I don't like the immediate jump to "TROLLS!" for having a differing opinion about the game, trying to have a discussion on the forums there is typically terrible, to the point where I don't get involved just so I don't have to deal with the constant back and forth that will go nowhere.

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Originally Posted by Spaisekraft

Has anyone been over there? There are people making a lot of threads trying to steer people away from Defiance and into Firefall without ever having played Defiance.

Even people on the Firefall forums discussing Defiance have been more open minded, and are even saying positive things about Defiance.

Think it's hurting Steam pre-orders? Those forums seem to be completely un-moderated. I've been working my butt off over there trying to counter the trolls. :/

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I got Firefall but to be honest am more excited about Defiance then Firefall.

Too bad i cant get my 25 euros back that i put in it back then to get the special mask >>.

Ow well let the trolls troll less for us to worry about ingame

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Originally Posted by Kordesh

I'm on the other side of the fence. I've played both, but I prefer the direction of Firefall as a game and the how Red5 operates much more than how Defiance is being handled by Trion (can't comment freely on the game), even if Defiance is further along in development. I take issue with the assumption that this is some sort of FF defense brigade as suggested by that last bit. It's simply people who are unhappy with Defiance for one reason or another using a similar game as an alternative. They don't have to be unhappy about specific gameplay features, they can be unhappy about any number of things that are known about the game from the business model to the design decisions as to what type of game it is, to it's marketing. No different than people pointing to Path of Exile or Torchlight 2 when complaining about Diablo 3. FF stands on it's own feet well enough (well, it doesn't so much stand as jetpack through the air willy nilly)

I will agree though, the steam discussion forums are more or less useless. While I don't like the immediate jump to "TROLLS!" for having a differing opinion about the game, trying to have a discussion on the forums there is typically terrible, to the point where I don't get involved just so I don't have to deal with the constant back and forth that will go nowhere.

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I checked some videos from firefall and ofc there are people who like it more than defiance and vice versa. That's just how life goes. But bashing other game over another is just stupid. If you don't like it you don't have to be a jerk towards those who does. I don't mean you at all, i mean overall forum behavior with some people

I personally like Defiance more than ff because i don't like firefalls grapich so much. Had hard time with borderlands because of that too :)

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Originally Posted by Kordesh

I'm on the other side of the fence. I've played both, but I prefer the direction of Firefall as a game and the how Red5 operates much more than how Defiance is being handled by Trion (can't comment freely on the game), even if Defiance is further along in development. I take issue with the assumption that this is some sort of FF defense brigade as suggested by that last bit. It's simply people who are unhappy with Defiance for one reason or another using a similar game as an alternative. They don't have to be unhappy about specific gameplay features, they can be unhappy about any number of things that are known about the game from the business model to the design decisions as to what type of game it is, to it's marketing. No different than people pointing to Path of Exile or Torchlight 2 when complaining about Diablo 3. FF stands on it's own feet well enough (well, it doesn't so much stand as jetpack through the air willy nilly)

I will agree though, the steam discussion forums are more or less useless. While I don't like the immediate jump to "TROLLS!" for having a differing opinion about the game, trying to have a discussion on the forums there is typically terrible, to the point where I don't get involved just so I don't have to deal with the constant back and forth that will go nowhere.

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You see that is my same opinion about R5 and FF, too much childish talk and not enough stuff about the game, has not had an update since December, but they said today that something big is coming out, I am just waiting, I can see myself playing both games without a problem. I know they are reworking the tier system and the tech tree, so maybe some good things will come after all.

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Originally Posted by Cyrox

I checked some videos from firefall and ofc there are people who like it more than defiance and vice versa. That's just how life goes. But bashing other game over another is just stupid. If you don't like it you don't have to be a jerk towards those who does. I don't mean you at all, i mean overall forum behavior with some people

I personally like Defiance more than ff because i don't like firefalls grapich so much. Had hard time with borderlands because of that too :)

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I agree on that point. I don't see a point in bashing one over the other. Personally, I feel they're very different games going in different directions actually. The comparisons are really superficial. But game forums will be game forums. Like I said, people are going to compare it to the next 'like' thing when they're going off about something. I'm a Commander level founder in FF, but I also have a digital deluxe copy of Defiance. I'm aware I'm critical of Defiance, but I'm judging the game on its own merits and how Trion is handling things, not because I play FF. I especially wouldn't waste my time trying to convince people that have already made up their minds that one is better than the other, especially when it's going to be preference. I do try to play devils advocate here, as I see a lot of hype, but not a whole lot of realistic counter balance. I'm sure it will be a fun game, I wouldn't have bought it otherwise. That said, nothing is without it's problems.

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Originally Posted by Kantazo

You see that is my same opinion about R5 and FF, too much childish talk and not enough stuff about the game, has not had an update since December, but they said today that something big is coming out, I am just waiting, I can see myself playing both games without a problem. I know they are reworking the tier system and the tech tree, so maybe some good things will come after all.

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Honestly, that's what I like about R5. It feels like a much more transparent and open dialog with the community. They have a very human approach. Trion is very much on the opposite end of that, where everything feels like it's been flushed through marketing three times before posting it to twitter/facebook. That said, they're not perfect either, and right now their biggest problem is, as you have said, they seem to be at a loss for direction or sticking with any one thing long enough to get around to finishing the game. This is the 2nd time the leveling system has been redone, and hopefully, it will be the last even if it will be a welcome change. The crafting system changes are also going to be major, and while also needed, I can't help but feel are going to cause some turmoil and are going to need the kinks worked out of it down the road. All in all I think they need to focus on one thing, PvE or PvP and get that fleshed out first and go from there. Sooooo much time was spent trying to work on "esports" stuff which effected less than 1% of the community while everyone else was left to keep thumping and thumping. I believe it will get there eventually, it's just going to take a long time while they start to commit to things. In the meantime, I'm playing other games and checking in with it occasionally.

But we're not really here to talk about FF.

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Originally Posted by Tzar of kaos

6% in two days,that' not bad.I guess there are less than 6% of Xbox 360 gamers that heard about Defiance. ;)

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Don't forget us PS3'rs *shakes fist* lol

firefall vs Defiance
gonna be the new Dota2 Vs Lol....

i gonna play Defiance (ive never heard about firefall before.. and find defiance just random.. and instant preorderd - lol)

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Originally Posted by Kordesh

Honestly, that's what I like about R5. It feels like a much more transparent and open dialog with the community. They have a very human approach. Trion is very much on the opposite end of that, where everything feels like it's been flushed through marketing three times before posting it to twitter/facebook. That said, they're not perfect either, and right now their biggest problem is, as you have said, they seem to be at a loss for direction or sticking with any one thing long enough to get around to finishing the game. This is the 2nd time the leveling system has been redone, and hopefully, it will be the last even if it will be a welcome change. The crafting system changes are also going to be major, and while also needed, I can't help but feel are going to cause some turmoil and are going to need the kinks worked out of it down the road. All in all I think they need to focus on one thing, PvE or PvP and get that fleshed out first and go from there. Sooooo much time was spent trying to work on "esports" stuff which effected less than 1% of the community while everyone else was left to keep thumping and thumping. I believe it will get there eventually, it's just going to take a long time while they start to commit to things. In the meantime, I'm playing other games and checking in with it occasionally.

But we're not really here to talk about FF.

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Not sure if you mean about trions NDA in this post and posts before this but i think NDA is great, i haven't played in betas/alpha yet and most of the people bashin defiance has been in first beta etc and this game has gone trough so many changes and polishing etc so i want my opinion from a finished game not from half-done game. Ofc it's **** if it isn't even nearly done :P I like everything i've seen and i trust things will be as trion says they will :) And for example in livestreams they take tips and opinions from players and run then through devs etc and i have never seen so much work between devs and players in many games. I'm sure if they completely reroll something it has been said by gaming community etc that it could be better.

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Originally Posted by Cyrox

Not sure if you mean about trions NDA in this post and posts before this but i think NDA is great, i haven't played in betas/alpha yet and most of the people bashin defiance has been in first beta etc and this game has gone trough so many changes and polishing etc so i want my opinion from a finished game not from half-done game. Ofc it's **** if it isn't even nearly done :P I like everything i've seen and i trust things will be as trion says they will :) And for example in livestreams they take tips and opinions from players and run then through devs etc and i have never seen so much work between devs and players in many games. I'm sure if they completely reroll something it has been said by gaming community etc that it could be better.

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Not talking about the NDA, though honestly, this late in the game, it really shouldn't be there even if you are making sweeping changes. Bottom line, if you're going to release it as a finished product, people should have some information on what they're buying. I just mean that Red5 is very laid back, their devs jump in the forums and post all the time, the live streams are very informal etc. Trion on the other hand loves to bombard social media, which if nothing else feels like a "we don't care about you if you're not helping us market the game" kind of feel if you don't use twitter/facebook, but all communication from them feels heavily filtered. They're very careful about what they say and in shaping their image before letting the cat out of the bag, and I'm not a huge fan of when companies layer things in marketing. Be honest and involved with your community instead of trying to use enough flash and advertising to make it seem like you're being honest and involved. My experience with them isn't just through Defiance but with Rift and RoN as well. I can't particularly say any of them have been especially positive. The only reason I still give them a chance personally is that, behind all the crap, they do usually do something good or at least interesting which is rare. For example, I wish I enjoyed Rift enough to go back to it just because the housing system in the last expansion is something that was long overdue and I would have loved to use/see.

How you can jugde a game by playing an alpha or beta test...I don' t really understand.And with online games (especially an mmo) you have to wait around a month after launch to make an objective opinion.That's why reviews for an mmo come out later after launch...

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Originally Posted by Tzar of kaos

How you can jugde a game by playing an alpha or beta test...I don' t really understand.And with online games (especially an mmo) you have to wait around a month after launch to make an objective opinion.That's why reviews for an mmo come out later after launch...

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You don't get that month, or anything until after you've spent $60 on the box. And there's functionally no difference between the version one day before launch and the version at launch, just because you're labeling it a beta. I'm not saying there should never be any NDA ever, but if they're committed to this launch date, it's disingenuous to keep information about the game under wraps on what is, for all intents and purposes what you're going to get at launch barring some final details, just to squeeze a few more "on faith" pre-orders in. All an NDA at this point means to most people is "They're hiding something. I should probably wait until after launch."

So that's Trion' game.If they want to manage this way that their problems and their money.And nobody are forced to pre-order or buy the game at launch...They made the choice to advertise the game in a no console friendly way,and for their 1st game on consoles that strange but that their problems not mine.I just play video-game and i didn't put 80 millions on this project...

I really don't get why people are griping so much... I mean if your not interested then don't order. If you are wanting to but unsure if its going to be good then wait a week or two after release and see what people are saying about the game and then make your decision. That way you might avoid some of the start up glitches/Server problems that often occur in MMO's.

I don't mind taking the chance so I plan on getting it right off the get go, because so far the videos that I have watched have all been impressive enough for me to think that its going to be worth my money.

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Originally Posted by Tzar of kaos

So that's Trion' game.If they want to manage this way that their problems and their money.And nobody are forced to pre-order or buy the game at launch...They made the choice to advertise the game in a no console friendly way,and for their 1st game on consoles that strange but that their problems not mine.I just play video-game and i didn't put 80 millions on this project...

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I don't mean to be an ******* but how do they "advertise the game in a no console friendly way" They have said it's going to be same kind of game on all consoles and if you mean live stream etc it's not possible to live stream on console. So every video/gameplay you see is also same as in console.

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Originally Posted by Cyrox

I don't mean to be an ******* but how do they "advertise the game in a no console friendly way" They have said it's going to be same kind of game on all consoles and if you mean live stream etc it's not possible to live stream on console. So every video/gameplay you see is also same as in console.

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Actually they did a large gameplay video of the Xbox version. so... yeah...

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Originally Posted by Desidus

Actually they did a large gameplay video of the Xbox version. so... yeah...

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Yea, i don't understand this "They don't care about consoles, they just aim to a pc game and forget consoles." How do they even come up with that?

Pretty sure that the 360 is going to have the highest Userbase of all Platforms.

PC MMO players won't play Defiance because it isn't tab-target, and they've got Planetside 2, and TERA, and Firefall is coming if they want real targeting. not to mention the competition on PC. Neverwinter, Archeage, Wildstar, and all the established MMOs. Defiance will have a tough time pulling MMO players from their established games, I think.

PS3 has DCUO(75% of its playerbase is on the PS3), Dust 514, and FF14 is coming up.

Defiance has pretty much no competition, as a MMO, on the 360. Only real "competition" that Defiance has to speak of on the 360 is Borderlands 2. maybe.

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Originally Posted by Cyrox

I don't mean to be an ******* but how do they "advertise the game in a no console friendly way" They have said it's going to be same kind of game on all consoles and if you mean live stream etc it's not possible to live stream on console. So every video/gameplay you see is also same as in console.

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I'm not talking about the final product but how they didn't advertised Defiance on Xbox live...Right know i can watch several making of or trailers about several upcoming games on Xbox live...But for Defiance 1 trailers and a theme.They already made several trailers and making of for Defiance can be watch on you tube but not on Xbox live...This is the 1st game on Xbox 360 that if i want know something about it i have to find by myself... For all the others games i don't need to.Even Destiny got a devs dairy...And this Trion' first game on consoles."The underground advertisement style"...And that doesn't means Defiance will be good or bad...Just a strange way to introduce themselves in the world of consoles gaming.

The game was developed for Consoles, and ported to PC.

that's why PC players on steam are trying to push people to Firefall, which is PC-exclusive.

just a theory.

One way to bring people around is to put up screenshots after launch. I see a lot of people buying games after looking through that game's hub.

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Originally Posted by Dekar

One way to bring people around is to put up screenshots after launch. I see a lot of people buying games after looking through that game's hub.

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after launch also there will be tons of gameplay videos posted to youtube so ppl can see the game as it is

well the fact that it is tied to a TV show is a factor. and its likely the reason why this game still has a NDA.

because of the TV show, which they do not want to spoil details for.

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Originally Posted by JMadFour

well the fact that it is tied to a TV show is a factor. and its likely the reason why this game still has a NDA.

because of the TV show, which they do not want to spoil details for.

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could be, though a lot of games have NDA Before release

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Originally Posted by Defy

could be, though a lot of games have NDA Before release

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yeah but the NDA is lifted roughly a month out so that the game can be hyped, normally.

it looks like we'll have a NDA all the way till launch, which isn't normal for MMOs. It's likely because of the TV Show being so tightly intertwined (i.e. Interacting with the Show's main Protagonists before the show even launches)

So what we need to do is to bash Steam on this forum and we can call it igual Pascual= English Even Steven

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Originally Posted by Kantazo

So what we need to do is to bash Steam on this forum and we can call it igual Pascual= English Even Steven

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I actually think there is some purpose behind the anti-Defiance/pro-Firefall comments on Steam. Some of them are intelligently written and focused on key differences. I smell grass roots advertisement.

couple of guys are hate'n on it at work, but then again; all they ever play is call of doo-doo

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Originally Posted by Ape One

couple of guys are hate'n on it at work, but then again; all they ever play is call of doo-doo

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they get mad when you tell them, cod is the same game year after year, skins and a few maps and a game type it is so amazing, grenade spam is so hard

Well if your a fan, you can find the good in it, but the game mechanics are what kill it; they're pretty bad.