Why all the bad reviews?

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Originally Posted by Rasczak

Well, why should SWTOR have gotten 90%+ review ratings at launch? Look at where that game ended up in less than 6 months. Look at what happened to it 11 months after launch.

So, either the review sites are (a) rating a game based on advertisement money received from the studio (i.e. Advertorials) or (b) these review sites really just review based upon which way the wind is blowing. Look at how many came back to review SWTOR a second time 8-10 months later and bashed the heck out of it. Apparently, the wind blowing through their ears changed direction.

They are all junk, regardless of the game they want to review.

I'm enjoying the game and having a blast. When that stops, I'll put it aside for a bit and come back to it after a spell. No "game reviewer" is going to change that. Nor did they stop me from buying it this past Wednesday.

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This is rather easy to explain, money changed hands for a higher review, I beta tested swtor and from the beta test I knew the game was going to flop horribly, and I was right too. In a beta the basic gameplay is usually pretty much set in stone, and its a good idea what teh final product will be like, especally if its a beta closer to the release. Sorry the "its a beta" excuse doesn't work when the game is due out in 2 months. I wanan get into the beta test for Elder Scrolls Online, because I get the feeling its just going to end up another boring wow-like game, dispite the combat system diffrence. I won't buy any mmorpg myself unless I have gotten into beta or a trial to see if I like it, been burned on way to many ****ty mmorpgs since wow's release due to not trying them first. mmorpgs these days are far to soloable, if I had to name the mmorpg I think is the best overall right now? I would have to say Final Fantasy 11, followed closely by Everquest 2. FF11 is due to the fact that you actually have a sense of accomplishment for even getting some small things done, due to the time needed, and how much you need to invest into it and the fact it actually feels like a MMO game because ff11 is not meant to be soloable like all the mmo's after wow., compared to say, Wow or rift, where everything is pratcally handed to you for little work for most of the game. Eq2, simply because of the mass amount of content, decent graphics, combat system is wonderful with the chain combos and such, and it just has a bit of everything to offer, the Alternate Advancement system rocks too, wish more games would use that, FF11 has a version of it too.

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Originally Posted by Scyris

This is rather easy to explain, money changed hands for a higher review

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Yeah, that right there was my point.

People put too much stock into these review sites.

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Originally Posted by Rasczak

It was even the same thing with WIZARD magazine back in the day. I worked in comic books. Their reviews were 100% based on how much advertisement money they were paid by the publisher. Period.

I can name multiple sources that do the same thing across different areas of the entertainment industry. It is not as uncommon as one would think.

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Bingo and anyone who has been to Dragon Con, E-3 or SOE Fan fare will tell you that there are viral marketing companies like BIGFAT that show up recruiting Astroturfers.

Like Gabe said a long time ago...They are among us

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Originally Posted by Rasczak

Yeah, that right there was my point.

People put too much stock into these review sites.

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The fact that there's a clear trend of lukewarm reviews is a critical sign of the foundation of the game, not any one particular review. When you compare this game to Rift's reception, the reception of this game is a clear embarrassment for Trion-- no matter what you think of each individual review.

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Originally Posted by Todeswulf

Bingo and anyone who has been to Dragon Con, E-3 or SOE Fan fare will tell you that there are viral marketing companies like BIGFAT that show up recruiting Astroturfers.

Like Gabe said a long time ago...They are among us

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The astroturfing goes both ways. There are likely people paid (directly or indirectly) to post on these forums and others for Trion. Don't believe what anyone other than yourself thinks, but consider the overall reception of a game more difficult to astroterf: the metacritic score.

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Originally Posted by NarcoticDragoon

I'm really not getting all of the hate for this game, how does it possibly have a 60 on Metacritic? I mean, I understand that it has a bunch of glitches, and some weird server issues... But still...
Please, no flaming, just explain why the critics are hating this game sooooo much.

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360 nerd rage, usual 360 players circle jerking because they're system can't handle the games recommended specs. Also game sites are based on biased opinions of the review person if they don't like that genre or type they'll approach it with a biased opinion which will misconstrue any proper review of the product.

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Originally Posted by Schwa

The astroturfing goes both ways. There are likely people paid (directly or indirectly) to post on these forums and others for Trion. Don't believe what anyone other than yourself thinks, but consider the overall reception of a game more difficult to astroterf: the metacritic score.

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Yeah I get that, but you can place no faith in meta critic either simply because of the roving bands of I hate <insert game developer here> SWTOR despite what peoples personal opinions are was a victim of the I hate EA squad who flooded meta critc two days before the game was even released..

Not really true Neo, I played the game on 360 during beta, and it was quite enjoyable, I imagine most of the issues 360 users are currently experienceing is simply the server not being used to the amount of players on it, causing it to freak out.

That said arkfalls wernt 100% smooth fps wise, but lets be honest very few of the newer top games for either console are 100% smooth anymore due to the ageing hardware.

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Originally Posted by Munx

Not really true Neo, I played the game on 360 during beta, and it was quite enjoyable, I imagine most of the issues 360 users are currently experienceing is simply the server not being used to the amount of players on it, causing it to freak out.

That said arkfalls wernt 100% smooth fps wise, but lets be honest very few of the newer top games for either console are 100% smooth anymore due to the ageing hardware.

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your comparing 360 beta with maybe 10,000 players on at any given time to 100,000+ players at any given time, also given major arkfalls will be somewat laggy depending on how good an internet connection you got, a person running off a really High Speed Connection like myself which usually costs about 120$/mth will have no issues over someone who gets the "discount" internet connection ie. I toss them 20$ a month it's all based on how good your ISP and how much bandwidth your working with and yes the lag has happened in similar games for the 360 ie. PSU yes that game. What most people don't understand is their making it the worst thing in gaming history... wake up call, the gaming industry almost tanked when ET game out for the Atari so let's just say that incident is staying in the history books as well as the world guiness book of records. What the new generation of gamers are use to is Instant gratification if anything happens even the single bug they swarm like sharks smelling a drop of blood in the water, and that kind of mentality puts a bad image on the gaming population overall, ie. bad reviews because the person reviewing it hates that company cause they wouldnt give him a discount,etc,etc.

A number of bad reviews may be written, or posted, simply because of lack of patience on one persons part, or they felt like everything wasn't just handed to them. As the past few posts have exampled, review sites may also be accepting money to downgrade certain games, while praising others. Numerous games have been labeled low score by Gameinformer, yet I still love them, just as they have labeled a number of games high end good stuff that were really just crap. The game has a good number of issues and things I would like to see changed or fixed, but as it stands, the game is fun and entertaining to myself.

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Originally Posted by Faas

A number of bad reviews may be written, or posted, simply because of lack of patience on one persons part, or they felt like everything wasn't just handed to them. As the past few posts have exampled, review sites may also be accepting money to downgrade certain games, while praising others. Numerous games have been labeled low score by Gameinformer, yet I still love them, just as they have labeled a number of games high end good stuff that were really just crap. The game has a good number of issues and things I would like to see changed or fixed, but as it stands, the game is fun and entertaining to myself.

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I never go with gamesite reviews as most of them have a biased opinion ie. Halo series always get 10/10, when personally its just a huge showboat of testosterone and a plot armored mary sue running around shooting people, if I wanted that I'd play Perfect Dark for my N64 which I still have ;P. But to be honest all you can base wether the game will be good is wait a month or two after release or do Closed Beta if you have hope the finished product will be good but be sure that if you pre-order/do closed beta you accept the fact not all the kinks will be smoothed out in the first month or two, there will be issues and you gotta accept the commitment to that which from what I've seen most players don't want to do that and they'd rather spend most of there time griping about a bug that Trion is trying to fix, I've been trained in C++ and Java and believe me it's not as simple as type 1 word and it's all fixed things take time and the player base will change those wanting to stay and commit to the game eventually being great are to be commended while those who would rather after they get d/ced or theres a bug rant for 9 hours should really get a life.

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Originally Posted by Warkaiser

Fanboying would imply Im somehow wrong, yet blindly defending the game. Please point to where Im wrong. Have fun with that while continuing to troll forums for a game you claim to have been bored with after 1 day. Yet here you are still obsessing over it.

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I wasn't the original poster who replied to you, but I will share my thoughts. You made two wrong assumptions in your "list".

1. You implied that all of the reviews were done on the Xbox, and that the platform had the most technical problems. That's completely false, many of the reviews were done on the PC and they pointed out the same exact short-comings and failures that are apparent on all platforms.

2. Blaming bad reviews on "console" players is just foolish. (not only because it's an ignorant and useless generalization) But also, you're looking at the critic reviews which, as I stated before, are largely PC reviewed. The "user score" is much higher because these console players seem to disagree with the critics (not uncommon)

Sorry to say but this is a mmorpg it just has no social aspects or carrots like most standard "MMO" Lets see CoD, Halo and many other games are MO's (multiplayer online). Do not confuse them with MMO even if millions play them.
This game is, but we have no social aspect other than when we randomly join up in a group and then we get the heavy mouth breathers. A more than basic chat panel which should have been in game but some how they believed was more than good enough needs a serious overhaul.

As to all the people that keep saying its not a RPG my god guys really?!?!?!? Lets look at what rpg stand for shall we. Role Playing Game. In this game you are playing the ROLE of a Ark hunter (that plays a major part in why the show's main characters leave San fran), You are PLAYING the character. And its a GAME. That's what RPG stand for please don't use its a third person shooter not a RPG to excuse the bad social aspects of this MMORPG.

Now player trading is a major thing that was shouted about when MMO's started to show up and yes this game allows for player trading but with no AH? well many games get around that but once again they failed to implement and good or even ok level chat panel that games from 10+ years ago had.

Player guild's/Clans a good social thing in this game but once again does not work for the most part due a few things. The only way to advertise a guild in this game is pretty much on the forums in game the chat panel once again sucks!!!! Most MMO players will not and do not use the forums so the in game chat is the one thing that need's to be put in yesterday (but as the devs are not time travellers) soon with a conformation would help a lot.

*grabs 52D6 and rolls them on the table with a result of 782* I'm pretty sure you don't know what an RPG is by definition ie. table top where it was first generated. By your definition this game is like an MMORPG:

1. There are thousands of players online at any given time to group up and do adventures.

2. There is a skill/level system in place like the very first RPGs out there.

By both those criteria met they are an MMORPG, wether you agree with me or not is beyond the point.

Role Playing Game Oxford Dictionary Definition:

noun

a game in which players take on the roles of imaginary characters who engage in adventures, typically in a particular fantasy setting overseen by a referee.

Massively Multiplayer Online:

noun
(plural MMOGs)

an online video game which can be played by a very large number of people simultaneously.



MMORPG:
(plural MMORPGs)

an online role-playing video game in which a very large number of people participate simultaneously.

By these facts your points are invalid.

Amgry Joe's review gave me some insight. He spent literally more than half of his thirty minute review bashing the game for its "lack of compelling storyline and bad voice acting and weak premise, yada yada".

Then I thought about it. All shooters are essentially the same in terms of combat mechanics. All that differentiates one AAA title from another is basically the storyline and the PvP maps. Mass Effect, Bioshock, Borderlands, Halo, Far Cry, etc all have very developed end-to end storylines with a "thrilling" conclusion. Note that this is very different from MMOs, all of which have generally weak or no storyline. Even GW2's storyline and voice acting is a laughable thing that ends terribly bad.

So IMO, these reviewers are all basically looking at Defiance as a shooter. They typically agree the combat is fun, but they deem the storyline (which is more MMO like and open ended for more) just mediocre or bad. Therefore, since this is a shooter, it's jut mediocre or bad in their eyes.

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Originally Posted by NarcoticDragoon

I'm really not getting all of the hate for this game, how does it possibly have a 60 on Metacritic? I mean, I understand that it has a bunch of glitches, and some weird server issues... But still...
Please, no flaming, just explain why the critics are hating this game sooooo much.

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Because all the little kids don't know how to rate games properly. They would rather plop down in the middle of the aisle and kick and scream and give 0 ratings...or maybe they haven't even really played it and just being ******bags.

I'm a little disappointed in the reviews myself, after all, I feel Defiance is recieving the same treatment Metro 2033 did. That said, Defiance is performing mostly for what I wanted it for, which was an excuse to hang out with friends I moved away from.

I have faith in Trion. Mostly because they aren't Blizzard. (I'm still a little angry about D3)

But I reserve any judgement on the game other than 'I'm having fun playing it' until the first DLC.

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Originally Posted by VolDeVie

Read the reviews?

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This. /10 chars

1. Terrible PC interface. I mean, really really terrible.

2. The worst social aspects in any MMO I have ever seen. I get that this is not a MMORPG, (its a MMOFPS), but its still an MMO. I am at ego 400 and I feel like I just played a mediocre single player game with the occasional Bot jumping in to help complete an area.

3. Massive bugs and technical problems. It's 2012 people. 'Its launch' doesn't cut it anymore. There have been lots of bad MMO launches, but there are have been several good ones too. Particularly when the launch is so bad that some people couldn't play for days, this is a problem.

4. Generic everything. It does somethings decently -- not everything is broken -- but I can't think of ANYTHING that Defiance does really well.

5. Lack of mission variety. There seem to be exactly two types of missions in the main line. Protect NPC, and click on Panels.

6. Bland, generic characters. Why does everyone cuss and talk like they are 4th graders trying to prove how cool they are?

7. Bland generic story. Your character acts more like a mindless robot than a person with any kind of free will. There is no attempt to explain or justify his participation or motivation in most of the storyline.

8. Complete lack of background details. I have never seen an MMO world where I knew as little about why things were going on as I do in defiance. If you like the lore side of MMO's, Defiance is going to disappoint.

There are some entertaining aspects, I feel I got my money's worth, but the original post was "why all the bad reviews", so that was the focus of my response.

[QUOTE=Bluejay285;307463]2. The worst social aspects in any MMO I have ever seen. I get that this is not a MMORPG, (its a MMOFPS), but its still an MMO. I am at ego 400 and I feel like I just played a mediocre single player game with the occasional Bot jumping in to help complete an area.

3. Massive bugs and technical problems. It's 2012 people. 'Its launch' doesn't cut it anymore. There have been lots of bad MMO launches, but there are have been several good ones too. Particularly when the launch is so bad that some people couldn't play for days, this is a problem.

4. Generic everything. It does somethings decently -- not everything is broken -- but I can't think of ANYTHING that Defiance does really well.

8. Complete lack of background details. I have never seen an MMO world where I knew as little about why things were going on as I do in defiance. If you like the lore side of MMO's, Defiance is going to disappoint.[QUOTE]

All of this is spot on for me, 8. particularly, but I'm hoping when its on the telly things will fall into place/make some sense.

if the same reviewers weren't acting like Bioshock Infinite is the best game ever. Defiance is a much more fun game, but I guess 2K Games buys a lot more advertising which gives them better review scores with all the sellout reviewers than Trion.

As everyone has been noticing many games nowadays have been getting released at beta stage and recently at alpha stage. This allows the company to fix every little glitch the game until they decide to release it which today can take years. Trion should have released the beta for 2 weeks prior to release allowing them to see all bugs and glitches before the game was released. Now most companies will give thir review based on the release of the game, which if having bugs and glitches is responsible by trion for releasing it early.

Doesn't change the fact that Defiance is a good game that will become great. Trion has a stellar reputation to update, and they will make this game epic.

This is my opinion.


The reviews arent bad. They are honest. Anything lower then 5 is b/s and anything higher than 7 is too high. The game is fun but not amazing. Its really cool at first but once you complete the content provider, which by the way doesnt take long.. The game gets kind of boring. Arkfalls are ok but the Xp system is beyond whack for them. Shadow Wars are pretty fun and the team death match is ok but needs more maps.

Overall 5/10 seems accurate for me.


If your having fun and love it then why even care about reviews though? Lol

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Originally Posted by DragonFall

As everyone has been noticing many games nowadays have been getting released at beta stage and recently at alpha stage. This allows the company to fix every little glitch the game until they decide to release it which today can take years. Trion should have released the beta for 2 weeks prior to release allowing them to see all bugs and glitches before the game was released. Now most companies will give thir review based on the release of the game, which if having bugs and glitches is responsible by trion for releasing it early.

Doesn't change the fact that Defiance is a good game that will become great. Trion has a stellar reputation to update, and they will make this game epic.

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Defiance released with lots of alpha/beta bug or content complaints that were not addressed.

So. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqeiN4pqTjo

I actually like the basic game play. To me it plays a lot like Mass Effect 2. I like the style. I like the story, sort of. I say sort of because we find out in game the characters go to Defiance from San Fran. But we can't? We also find out about the massacre at Defiance in game. Is this a spoiler? Does that mean Defiance is going to be destroyed or it was destroyed a while ago and the defiance we know today is the rebuilding defiance? I am a bit confused about defiance's history, present, and future based on the info I know right now. And if the game and tv show are called defiance, then why isn't the game actually around defiance, as in why isn't it the game main city hub? Anyway, the overall story I do like it just seems to have some holes? Maybe things will make more sense as I progress through the story more. Game mechanics are fine, but lack of information about what things do, what things mean, how things work is not so good. I can't find anywhere to go to do any kind of research. If you are going to have cosmetic clothing options, there really should be more choices. You can't really say well it's new, Secret World was new and they released with a crud load of clothing options both in game and through there cash store. There are other nit picky things, but there are things I truly like. I loved the way Trion introduced world events in Rift, and I like how they continued it here. To me, the me2 style shooter/rpg elements combined, the ark falls, and the story are my favs and will continue here as long as I can, hopefully some of the basics like information and some of the not so basics like cosmetics are released soon. Potential is high.