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  • 04-13-2013, 08:07 AM
    Shada Mori
    Keep in mind, what we have is in effect 5 zones. The game is designed to be rolled out over the course of the show in seasons and episodic events. There is a lot of potential for them to add more areas (theres a whole area of the map, twice the size of what we have that is blocked off right now..) and thats assuming all we will ever have is this one map. Patience is the story of the day with Defiance... content will come.. its how the game is designed.. I know that frustrates some people but it was sorta always the concept. The game evolves with the show.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:07 AM
    Technodude
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DeMoted View Post
    Exactly not big and a failed game.

    FFXI is a failed game now? what?

    Since when 20+ zones are considered to be small?
  • 04-13-2013, 08:09 AM
    Ikagawa
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DeMoted View Post
    Exactly not big and a failed game.

    http://kotaku.com/5921037/the-most-p...ill-paying-for

    Oh look, you're wrong again.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:10 AM
    DeMoted
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Technodude View Post
    FFXI is a failed game now? what?

    Since when 20+ zones are considered to be small?

    The zones themselves were not big at all.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:10 AM
    Hycinthus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DeMoted View Post
    Exactly not big and a failed game.

    Haha FFXI has always been in the top 10 MMO subscription game, and Defiance would be lucky to get close to its subcription number.

    Anyway, failed MMO is besides the point. You can take any one of my list, and declare it failed if you want. You can argue SWTOR failed, TERA failed, Rift failed, Warhammer failed, Age of conan -gosh- failed. Or you may not. I will exact no judgment on that.

    Also 20+ zones is not small.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:10 AM
    DeMoted
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ikagawa View Post
    http://kotaku.com/5921037/the-most-p...ill-paying-for

    Oh look, you're wrong again.

    Haven't been wrong yet. Don't get mad b.c I made you look bad.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:12 AM
    Ikagawa
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DeMoted View Post
    Haven't been wrong yet. Don't get mad b.c I made you look bad.

    http://ih2.redbubble.net/image.10451...375x360.u1.png

    So that's your defense for utter stupidity and ignorance.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:13 AM
    Kitsunami
    What you have to realise is:

    A LOT of content will be deliberately locked out already. For example, im pretty certain they have finished the Defiance town map and all of that area. Why? because the signature town from the tv series WILL be in the game.

    But, it will be locked out. Why? Because we have our own story to follow at this time. We aren't going to be in that town for some time, they are going to probably release areas as we go to them. I imagine we will only get to see antarctica in the very late period of the game development.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:14 AM
    fishboy11
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wee_murray05 View Post
    You have to bear in mind that this game has just launched.
    There are 5 dlc's in the works and I dare say at least one of them will include new zones.

    Also the game is free to play with no limitations. A lot of MMOs with F2P tend to limit how much of the game you can access.

    the game is b2p not f2p there is a big difference
  • 04-13-2013, 08:14 AM
    Monkheal
    There are so many factors that come into play with the current size of the game.
    1. Just Released and meant to go alongside theshow
    2. Its multi-platform developing this much content for 3 different systems is fairly impressive
    3. Its not whichother game you are comparing it to.
    4. Its based in the future on earth thats been terraforrmed
    5. They have to get approval from both sides on development tv/game

    All in all my points might not all be valid but I believe they did a bangup job so far and I bet they are saving some of the best for as things move along. I cannot wait until things fall into place. But if you are comparing all mmos this still had the smoothest launch on pc, maybe not on consoles but I had relatively no server problems myself. Anyways just my opinion as to why its not the buggest world released, also you could add graphics to the list as those are fairly more advanced from other mmo's in the past and they take more time
  • 04-13-2013, 08:15 AM
    Technodude
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DeMoted View Post
    The zones themselves were not big at all.

    The zones are quite decent in size actually and i am 100% sure you didn't even play the game. But since you want to defend honor of Defiance you will just continue to make stuff up.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:15 AM
    DeMoted
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ikagawa View Post
    http://ih2.redbubble.net/image.10451...375x360.u1.png

    So that's your defense for utter stupidity and ignorance.

    I will take your insults as icing on the cake of your losing arguments.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:16 AM
    Ikagawa
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kitsunami View Post
    What you have to realise is:

    A LOT of content will be deliberately locked out already. For example, im pretty certain they have finished the Defiance town map and all of that area. Why? because the signature town from the tv series WILL be in the game.

    But, it will be locked out. Why? Because we have our own story to follow at this time. We aren't going to be in that town for some time, they are going to probably release areas as we go to them. I imagine we will only get to see antarctica in the very late period of the game development.

    As far as anyone knows, the signature town from the series isn't going to be in the game. It's in St. Louis. So far the only information people have even hinted at future locations would be Las Vegas some time down the line.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:16 AM
    DeMoted
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Technodude View Post
    The zones are quite decent in size actually and i am 100% sure you didn't even play the game. But since you want to defend honor of Defiance you will just continue to make stuff up.

    That statement right there shows you just want to fight b.c you have nothing left to bring to the table.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:17 AM
    fishboy11
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Shada Mori View Post
    Keep in mind, what we have is in effect 5 zones. The game is designed to be rolled out over the course of the show in seasons and episodic events. There is a lot of potential for them to add more areas (theres a whole area of the map, twice the size of what we have that is blocked off right now..) and thats assuming all we will ever have is this one map. Patience is the story of the day with Defiance... content will come.. its how the game is designed.. I know that frustrates some people but it was sorta always the concept. The game evolves with the show.

    well the game description does say it takes place in the SF bay area, so i doubt we will see new maps, the current map may have its greyed out areas slowly revealed with dlc's but the question is how much content will the dlc's give and how often, the first dlc has already been pushed back by at least 3 weeks, and the show content is going to be nothing more than a few episode missions per week that will probably add a couple of hours gameplay at best, so i am kinda not hopefull about the future of content for this game.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:17 AM
    Technodude
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DeMoted View Post
    I will take your insults as icing on the cake of your losing arguments.

    You have been pulling stuff out of your behind so far..you didn't even have an argument and even if you did you lost it the moment you said FFXI was a failure and is small in size.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DeMoted View Post
    That statement right there shows you just want to fight b.c you have nothing left to bring to the table.

    At least i don't make up stuff for sake of arguing. Some people just don't know when to stop.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:17 AM
    Ikagawa
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DeMoted View Post
    That statement right there shows you just want to fight b.c you have nothing left to bring to the table.

    Says the guy that hasn't said a single word that makes sense.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:18 AM
    Monkheal
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hycinthus View Post
    Haha FFXI has always been in the top 10 MMO subscription game, and Defiance would be lucky to get close to its subcription number.

    Anyway, failed MMO is besides the point. You can take any one of my list, and declare it failed if you want. You can argue SWTOR failed, TERA failed, Rift failed, Warhammer failed, Age of conan -gosh- failed. Or you may not. I will exact no judgment on that.

    Also 20+ zones is not small.

    This game has no subscription so technically you cant even add it to that list.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:20 AM
    Zoridium JackL
    while I'll admit the land mass is a little on the small side you need to also take into account what is done with it (and the fact that it's only a recent launch).

    a lot of games are filled with dead space, this space exists for no really good reason other then to cheat you into thinking the area is big (it is big, but not for any good reason), in my time in WoW i think I only ever experienced a few zones that where genuinely large without the space being mostly pointless, and I'm pretty sure they were all parts of later expansions. defiance does have dead space, but it's never expansive and usually just offers breathing room between event spaces, and provides a reason for mounts to exist.

    something else to consider is how travel works, the vehicles in Defiance offer a lot of mobility and make larger distances feel like they are smaller, walking from A-B can take ages in Defiance and you'd get held up a lot by random events, but the vehicle lets you bypass most things (and usually ignore significant terrain) to get around, in most MMOs mounts have a severely gimped speed, so you can only cover ground so fast even if you are flying, like how crossing large areas in WoW often came down to pointing your mount in the right direction, pressing the forward movement toggle and going to get a coffee. defiance trades-off those inflated travel times for the sake of convenience.

    yes the land mass is small, but that;s because it's no bigger then it needs to be to accommodate what they've put into it, the alternative is a load of dead space to artificially increase the square footage at the expense of wasting your time. sure even with all that taken into consideration it's still a pretty small area, but it's much more understandable and definitely not unreasonable.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:21 AM
    Ikagawa
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Zoridium JackL View Post
    <snip>yes the land mass is small, but that;s because it's no bigger then it needs to be to accommodate what they've put into it, the alternative is a load of dead space to artificially increase the square footage at the expense of wasting your time. sure even with all that taken into consideration it's still a pretty small area, but it's much more understandable and definitely not unreasonable.

    Well put.

    /10char
  • 04-13-2013, 08:23 AM
    fishboy11
    the map in this game is mostly empty space too, and if it wasnt for the hills and obstacles it would take no time to travel from one end to the other, and the content it is filled with is the same content recycled over and over again just with a very limited number of different skins.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:24 AM
    DeMoted
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ikagawa View Post
    Says the guy that hasn't said a single word that makes sense.

    Odd if nothing has made sense yet you reply to every single post I have posted. You need to think about what you said.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:35 AM
    MMandevil
    Sigh stop feeding the troll, also troll stop failing and get some better content.

    One last thing QQing on forums versus playing in game...

    /slowclap

    If you read the newsfeed you would know two things
    1. free dlc content
    2. paid dlc content
    3. I know i know who ****ing cares how big the map is at launch we KNOW it will get bigger
    like my wife after we got married its just something that happens.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:37 AM
    Hycinthus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Zoridium JackL View Post
    while I'll admit the land mass is a little on the small side you need to also take into account what is done with it (and the fact that it's only a recent launch).

    a lot of games are filled with dead space, this space exists for no really good reason other then to cheat you into thinking the area is big (it is big, but not for any good reason), in my time in WoW i think I only ever experienced a few zones that where genuinely large without the space being mostly pointless, and I'm pretty sure they were all parts of later expansions. defiance does have dead space, but it's never expansive and usually just offers breathing room between event spaces, and provides a reason for mounts to exist.

    something else to consider is how travel works, the vehicles in Defiance offer a lot of mobility and make larger distances feel like they are smaller, walking from A-B can take ages in Defiance and you'd get held up a lot by random events, but the vehicle lets you bypass most things (and usually ignore significant terrain) to get around, in most MMOs mounts have a severely gimped speed, so you can only cover ground so fast even if you are flying, like how crossing large areas in WoW often came down to pointing your mount in the right direction, pressing the forward movement toggle and going to get a coffee. defiance trades-off those inflated travel times for the sake of convenience.

    yes the land mass is small, but that;s because it's no bigger then it needs to be to accommodate what they've put into it, the alternative is a load of dead space to artificially increase the square footage at the expense of wasting your time. sure even with all that taken into consideration it's still a pretty small area, but it's much more understandable and definitely not unreasonable.


    Well I agree with this that for bigger maps, they shouldn't just be dead space just for the sake of bigger maps.

    With bigger maps, there should be content, dynamic event, quests that come along with them, and a bunch of variety. I am yearning for a city actually where you can see people gather.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:39 AM
    DeMoted
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MMandevil View Post
    Sigh stop feeding the troll, also troll stop failing and get some better content.

    One last thing QQing on forums versus playing in game...

    /slowclap

    If you read the newsfeed you would know two things
    1. free dlc content
    2. paid dlc content
    3. I know i know who ****ing cares how big the map is at launch we KNOW it will get bigger
    like my wife after we got married its just something that happens.

    Yea I gave up on the trolls they just didn't understand.
  • 04-13-2013, 08:47 AM
    EdgeTW
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by FantasyMeister View Post
    It's not the size, it's what you do with it.

    Taking WoW as an example, everything is in the exact same place most of the time, in Defiance you never know what type of dynamic event is around the next corner.

    What you're referring to really has nothing to do with your statement. I enjoy dynamic events, however I think Guild Wars 2 does them much better than Defiance.

    As for "what you do with the size", Defiance and WoW have pretty large maps (when you're running around on foot and not screaming through them on mounts). WoW, however, uses their space wisely. Defiance.. not so much.

    For the most part, the terrain in this area of Defiance looks a lot like the terrain in the next area. There's not a lot of variety, not really any reason to go exploring beyond pursuits (which is an artificial lure rather than exploration through interest). Just an alien landscape dotted with seemingly random human props. There are very few scenes in Defiance that stand out from others, where as in games like GW2 or WoW, almost every direction you look in is meant to look like an interesting painting.

    It also really doesn't help that there seems to be a total of, what.. 3 lifeforms dominating the landscape - humanoid, hellbug, and pig-cow.

    The map in Defiance is actually pretty big. It would take a while to run around anywhere on foot. The problem is, the design does little to make you care about the terrain around you beyond "where's the next point of cover and mission marker?".
  • 04-13-2013, 08:54 AM
    Hycinthus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by EdgeTW View Post
    The map in Defiance is actually pretty big. It would take a while to run around anywhere on foot. The problem is, the design does little to make you care about the terrain around you beyond "where's the next point of cover and mission marker?".

    I enjoy the minigames /racing time trial that they have though. It's always the little things like these that are the stand out in any games. It helps break the monotony and adds a little character to the game.

    There needs to be more like this, it doesn't have to be crafting. MAybe crafting doesn't fit this game. But other activities that can differentiate the look and feel of the area besides retexturing everything.

    Also I agree, need more life forms
  • 04-13-2013, 09:02 AM
    Hiroller
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Munx View Post
    just because it flies, dosnt mean its high speed..

    actually, it does. you negate the terrain which makes it faster
  • 04-13-2013, 09:08 AM
    Hiroller
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Shadow Skill View Post
    No it dont have as many - even with all 4 major Expansions

    It start with only 10 zones acctually (Angmar was final zone)
    Right now - its maybe 25 (+/- 2)
    Some zones are really big - like Bree, other are small like Ered Luin.
    I think that Bree and Shire combined is at least Defiance map size, if not bigger



    I give you ONE game im playing - Fallen Earth. Defiance looks like it is a casual clone of that game actually :D
    Map is so HUGE - that i think first map from 7, is 50 time bigger then whole Defiance.
    If you try to walk anywhere - you die by boredom - and even riding on your hourse to other sector takes ages
    Its one of biggest map in MMO (btw except horses there are atv, dune buggy and cars in there)


    And yes - Defiance map is right now, VERY small
    I seriously hope they give us more space to play, those grayed areas looks promising.

    Even worse - there is very little landscape variety right now. I want to see a CITY, no docks, not some tent - a whole city (let me guess - we gonna get one - Defiance :D and thats it)
    I wanna see some heavy forested area - where car will just not fit offroad
    i want to see some flat/dune desert - like those areas from SyFy trailers

    And dont forget about one of Defiance most annoying limitations - Invisible walls everywhere, i can stand small map, but why i cant jump up the cliff to nearby arkfall, but need to ride around for 2 minutes? Cmmon Trion, thats not nice at all :(

    yup, it will take you close to an hour to ride a motorcyle from one end of fallen earth to the other. massive
  • 04-13-2013, 09:17 AM
    Xyr3s
    btw we dont get to go to defiance afaik.... cos defiance is st louis and we re in SF..... and they specifically put the game and the series in 2 diff cities for a reason lol.....
  • 04-13-2013, 10:33 AM
    Technodude
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DeMoted View Post
    Yea I gave up on the trolls they just didn't understand.

    Actually the real trolls make up stuff like FFXI was a failure and 20+ zones at release are small.

    And you know who that is.
  • 04-13-2013, 10:52 AM
    Lambchops
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ikagawa View Post
    WoW had 40 zones at launch. So pretty close.

    Yes and how many of those zones are actually used?

    Having a bunch of big zones is pointless if there is no reason for them to be there. The entire Defiance map is seamless, and the one map we do have is more or less the size of probably 5-6 zones from WoW. More will be added as is usually the case with MMOs.

    I have many gripes with this game, world size is not one of them.
  • 04-13-2013, 11:01 AM
    Technodude
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
    Yes and how many of those zones are actually used?

    Having a bunch of big zones is pointless if there is no reason for them to be there. The entire Defiance map is seamless, and the one map we do have is more or less the size of probably 5-6 zones from WoW. More will be added as is usually the case with MMOs.

    I have many gripes with this game, world size is not one of them.

    WOW zoning was also seamless unless you take a boat or portal to other continent.

    And you must be the first person to say that 40 zones in WOW at launch were a waste. If anything it added so much replay ability that one could roll 4 alts and still wouldn't have to go through same content twice.

    I know it is a cool thing to hate on WOW but give credit where credit is due.

    Even GW2 dwarfs Defiance in terms of zones/maps and content at release.
  • 04-13-2013, 11:03 AM
    DeMoted
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Technodude View Post
    Actually the real trolls make up stuff like FFXI was a failure and 20+ zones at release are small.

    And you know who that is.

    Actually this what you are doing is trolling.
  • 04-13-2013, 11:03 AM
    DeL1I
    Remember this is still beta...:rolleyes:
  • 04-13-2013, 11:07 AM
    Technodude
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DeMoted View Post
    Actually this what you are doing is trolling.

    I haven't made up anything imaginary so far bro. It was all you.
  • 04-13-2013, 11:13 AM
    tinytina
    The difference is in Defiance you use the whole map, even at "endgame". In most other MMOs you out level a zone and never return to it. In the end you use less than 5% of the whole map. In Defiance you never really out level a zone and can return to any one and do the content there. With contracts, arkfalls and emergency events the whole map remains relevant. Because of this it needs to be smaller, otherwise people would end up too spread out and you would never have enough people to have those arkfall events feel really epic.
  • 04-13-2013, 11:15 AM
    Sozu
    This all comes down to a previous thread i started. This is not an mmorpg so why is everyone comparing it to world of ****craft?

    If you want to compare this worlds size with another game like it then compare it to APB. NOT WoW. APB had 2 zones total...Each zone probably about half the size of Defiance areas.

    Defiance is probably triple the size of APB, the only game it can really be compared to.

    Said it before and ill say it again. Defiance is not an MMORPG. Defiance is an MMOTPS. So quit comparing it to mmorpg's.
  • 04-13-2013, 11:17 AM
    Technodude
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sozu View Post
    This all comes down to a previous thread i started. This is not an mmorpg so why is everyone comparing it to world of ****craft?

    If you want to compare this worlds size with another game like it then compare it to APB. NOT WoW. APB had 2 zones total...Each zone probably about half the size of Defiance areas.

    Defiance is probably triple the size of APB, the only game it can really be compared to.

    Said it before and ill say it again. Defiance is not an MMORPG. Defiance is an MMOTPS. So quit comparing it to mmorpg's.

    Trion says it is a MMO so comparisons in terms of content at release to other MMOS are valid. Only because in place of RPG you insert shooter or TPS doesn't mean it isn't a MMO.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tinytina View Post
    The difference is in Defiance you use the whole map, even at "endgame". In most other MMOs you out level a zone and never return to it. In the end you use less than 5% of the whole map. In Defiance you never really out level a zone and can return to any one and do the content there. With contracts, arkfalls and emergency events the whole map remains relevant. Because of this it needs to be smaller, otherwise people would end up too spread out and you would never have enough people to have those arkfall events feel really epic.

    GW2 is same. You get scaled according to the zone so everything is re playable all the time. No part of game world is wasted and still GW2 dwarfs Defiance in terms of sheer size.

    So i doubt the reason you gave for keeping map size small is valid.
  • 04-13-2013, 11:17 AM
    Ikagawa
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Sozu View Post
    This all comes down to a previous thread i started. This is not an mmorpg so why is everyone comparing it to world of ****craft?

    If you want to compare this worlds size with another game like it then compare it to APB. NOT WoW. APB had 2 zones total...Each zone probably about half the size of Defiance areas.

    Defiance is probably triple the size of APB, the only game it can really be compared to.

    Said it before and ill say it again. Defiance is not an MMORPG. Defiance is an MMOTPS. So quit comparing it to mmorpg's.

    We've already covered your objection.
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