For the ragers and complainers - Here's your solutions!

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Originally Posted by Ikagawa

If they weren't playing Anarchy Online at launch, then they haven't seen anything.

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Anarchy Online was the worst launch I've ever experienced. Couldn't login at all the first 2 days after launch, (kind of like Defiance). After playing for a week they rolled back the servers and I lost all that I gained that week. (Hope that doesn't happen with Defiance.) Called customer service and they didn't understand why I wanted my account credited for the lost game time. (At least Defiance has given us some extra perks to make up for the problems they are working on. Have to give them credit for that.) Bottom line is, I enjoy the game and I hope the changes, and TV show tie in, will make me like it more.

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Originally Posted by Ikagawa

If they weren't playing Anarchy Online at launch, then they haven't seen anything.

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That was nothing compaired to WoW, which to date still had the worst mmo(state) release.
Rift had its own fair share as well.

But regardless how bad other mmo's where released its not a justification. That said the majority of bugs arent worth mentioning and the ones that are inconveniant at best. And yes, there still are plenty of improvements left to various of features, some could be added but over all the game is in fairly good shape.

Oh god thay did live up to its name, didn't it?

I have played a lot of MMOs the past seven years, and attended nearly every bigger game launch for the last two,
but releasing a Massive Multiplayer game with no working text chat system is a thing I can't understand,...

In my opinion, ther are three pillars that carry an MMO, thats:

-KILLING STUFF
-CRAFTING
-INTERACTION with other players

The only thing this game covers well is the killing.

No real crafting in this one, neary no Character progression,
and the chat is not working...

Nothing left to say, if I got something wrong, please feel free to educate me!

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Originally Posted by Moody

I have played a lot of MMOs the past seven years, and attended nearly every bigger game launch for the last two,
but releasing a Massive Multiplayer game with no working text chat system is a thing I can't understand,...

In my opinion, ther are three pillars that carry an MMO, thats:

-KILLING STUFF
-CRAFTING
-INTERACTION with other players

The only thing this game covers well is the killing.

No real crafting in this one, neary no Character progression,
and the chat is not working...

Nothing left to say, if I got something wrong, please feel free to educate me!

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Chat's being fixed

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Originally Posted by Moody

I have played a lot of MMOs the past seven years, and attended nearly every bigger game launch for the last two,
but releasing a Massive Multiplayer game with no working text chat system is a thing I can't understand,...

In my opinion, ther are three pillars that carry an MMO, thats:

-KILLING STUFF
-CRAFTING
-INTERACTION with other players

The only thing this game covers well is the killing.

No real crafting in this one, neary no Character progression,
and the chat is not working...

Nothing left to say, if I got something wrong, please feel free to educate me!

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1) yes the chat system needs improvements, sadly its not even the worst.
2) Granted its very very limited we DO have crafting.
3) I have a 1.1k ego rating, IM far more powerfull now then at creation.
Then ofcourse the perks you gain from lvling weapon skills , higher crit multiplier, less recoil, faster reloads, higher elemental effect tricker ratio, more dmg.

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Originally Posted by Panthan

That was nothing compaired to WoW, which to date still had the worst mmo(state) release.
Rift had its own fair share as well.

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Incorrect. Anarchy Online is regarded by the industry as well as the players as the worst MMO release in the history of the genre.

WoW's release was a cakewalk in comparison. People could actually play their characters in WoW. AO frequently had players frozen into walls and other geometry with no recourse but to start a new character and hope that it didn't happen again (it did).

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Originally Posted by Ikagawa

Incorrect. Anarchy Online is regarded by the industry as well as the players as the worst MMO release in the history of the genre.

WoW's release was a cakewalk in comparison. People could actually play their characters in WoW. AO frequently had players frozen into walls and other geometry with no recourse but to start a new character and hope that it didn't happen again (it did).

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False. server stability was lacking, to the point people where unable to play the game period for 6 weeks straight, then ofcourse a complete disfunctional class. Underworld mobs, severe pc and npc server latency issue making certain parts of the game nearly imposible to playAo had some horid moments and it may be a close shave but WoW was worse.

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Originally Posted by Panthan

False. server stability was lacking, to the point people where unable to play the game period for 6 weeks straight, then ofcourse a complete disfunctional class. Underworld mobs, severe pc and npc server latency issue making certain parts of the game nearly imposible to playAo had some horid moments and it may be a close shave but WoW was worse.

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AO: People couldn't leave the instanced backyard areas, if they were able to log in.

WoW: Players could traverse the entire game world, if they were able to log in. Bent over loot lag and all.

You are wrong. Your personal experience doesn't trump the industries.

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Originally Posted by Dist0rt3d Hum0r

Defiance is my first MMO experience. Honestly, I'm quite happy with it. Playing Bethesda's games over the years has caused me to brush off bugs. (You'll understand if you've played Bethesda's games).

I'm super excited for the show too. Can't wait to see how that fleshes out in the game.

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I am excited about the show also. Tomorrow is not coming fast enough. :)
Yes, I have played Bethesda games. Played Fallout New Vegas on PS3. Took me 7 months to finish the games. 7 months!!!! Because of game-breaking bugs. I would stop playing until next patch but things never got better.

Previous MMOs or games with bugs, does not excuse Trion. But I do agree that this situation is not unusual. However, as an IT professional that is responsible for launching large-scale software, I do know that it is avoidable. You can launch games and other software of this scale without bugs.

I am somewhat disappointed in Trion because they had a reputation of smooth launches and low defect rates. So I expected more from their Defiance release.

Just my two cents. This is basically my first mmo other than the occasional play at friends house's with pc but that don't really count.

As a console player (xbox). I am very patient with the problems defiance is having and just working around it. Doing what I can do in the game and waiting out what's not working till it does. I can't speak for the PC guys but the console guys should just be glade they made it available to us and give them time to get it fixed b/f quitting or going all rage on the devs.

I don't pretend to know much about game developing or how any of it works but I have been gaming for years. Do you remember the intelevision? lol. I have seen my share of problems with launches and all though there have been quite a few with defiance and even down times I must say I am very impressed in their dedication to fixing the problems and trying to answer our questions. You have to keep in mind that this is to my knowledge the 1st of it's type especially to cover so many platforms.

(Not going to name names but some of you will probably know witch game I am referring to.) The last game I bought back in oct. Was very flawed. The forums were packed with questions and you couldn't beg an answer from the dev team. Only time they showed in the forums was to promote their stuff or respond to anything other than problems with the game. We waited till mid December to get the 1st patch and an announcement that it would be the only patch the game would every get because they were dropping support after the 1st of the year. So instead of dumping on the defiance team let's show and give our support for All the hard work and dedication they have shown us so far. You can't complain about an issue then complain when the games down for fixing.

Thank you Defiance for your hard work! Been loving the game so far and can't wait for the show tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Ikagawa

AO: People couldn't leave the instanced backyard areas, if they were able to log in.

WoW: Players could traverse the entire game world, if they were able to log in. Bent over loot lag and all.

You are wrong. Your personal experience doesn't trump the industries.

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6+k ping word wide, blizard gave people free time to compensate for this , granted there where brief moments where you where able to do SOMETHING for a short period of time. This also related to getting stuck indefinately in loading screens, which even caused actual characters to go awal all together.
Various of fall through the world glitches, underworld mobs, rubber banding characters and npcs, warping npcs, and certainly not least a disfunctional class, that was removed from the game 2 days before release and a napkin concept was added at release (which wasnt fixed/brought on par with the notorious mage tears 1.7 patch)
So you didnt play WoW at release, Ao had stutter issues and in some cases you could get stuck, even though it was anoying at times contacting an Ark for a world kick they problem was resolveble, only happened twise in the 1st 3 weeks after launch for me.
Ao had without a doubt a bad launch but it was playeble, WoW on the other hand had such world-server sided latency issues that the game just wasnt playeble at all.
Sorry YOUR personal experiance doesnt trump reality.

As far as horrid launches are concerned, you all are leaving out one word: AION

Singularly. The. Worst. Launch. Ever. Period.

That sorry sack of bullpoo remained unstable until the day I rage quit and never went back.

Defiance was a good game during alpha and beta. No lag of which to speak and quick fixes. Launch has been a dream compared to other MMOs.

Remember what John Bender said: "Screws fall out. The world's an imperfect place."

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Originally Posted by Panthan

6+k ping word wide, blizard gave people free time to compensate for this , granted there where brief moments where you where able to do SOMETHING for a short period of time. This also related to getting stuck indefinately in loading screens, which even caused actual characters to go awal all together.
Various of fall through the world glitches, underworld mobs, rubber banding characters and npcs, warping npcs, and certainly not least a disfunctional class, that was removed from the game 2 days before release and a napkin concept was added at release (which wasnt fixed/brought on par with the notorious mage tears 1.7 patch)
So you didnt play WoW at release, Ao had stutter issues and in some cases you could get stuck, even though it was anoying at times contacting an Ark for a world kick they problem was resolveble, only happened twise in the 1st 3 weeks after launch for me.
Ao had without a doubt a bad launch but it was playeble, WoW on the other hand had such world-server sided latency issues that the game just wasnt playeble at all.
Sorry YOUR personal experiance doesnt trump reality.

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Except I did play WoW at launch. Loot lag was annoying from Darkshore to Ashenvale, but was cleared up within a couple of weeks.

And my personal experience aside, the entire industry claims AO had the worst release. That's what you seem to be missing. It isn't just my experience.

And since you didn't seem to read it when Taaltos linked it the first time, here it is again.

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Originally Posted by Ikagawa

Except I did play WoW at launch. Loot lag was annoying from Darkshore to Ashenvale, but was cleared up within a couple of weeks.

And my personal experience aside, the entire industry claims AO had the worst release. That's what you seem to be missing. It isn't just my experience.

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I agree with you. AO set a new standard for bad releases and no MMO has ever beaten it. WOW doesn't even come close. It is not just matter of opinion but gaming industry fact.

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Originally Posted by Ikagawa

Except I did play WoW at launch. Loot lag was annoying from Darkshore to Ashenvale, but was cleared up within a couple of weeks.

And my personal experience aside, the entire industry claims AO had the worst release. That's what you seem to be missing. It isn't just my experience.

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Funny enough. One of the sites you are a frequent poster on got ao ranking 2nd and WoW 1st. Difference is people excused WoW over and over, mostly excusing it that they didnt expect the amounth of players that came with it. Ao was very niche even for its time, the issues and complexity of the game caused it to be undersuccessfull.
So yes successwise you are probebly right, performance/ quality wise you are not.
For your amusement taken from one of your frequent sites :http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/4862

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Originally Posted by Panthan

Funny enough. One of the sites you are a frequent poster on got ao ranking 2nd and WoW 1st. Difference is people excused WoW over and over, mostly excusing it that they didnt expect the amounth of players that came with it. Ao was very niche even for its time, the issues and complexity of the game caused it to be undersuccessfull.
So yes successwise you are probebly right, performance/ quality wise you are not.
For your amusement taken from one of your frequent sites :http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/4862

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If i were you i would never quote mmorpg.com for anything..ever..!!

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Originally Posted by Panthan

Funny enough. One of the sites you are a frequent poster on got ao ranking 2nd and WoW 1st. Difference is people excused WoW over and over, mostly excusing it that they didnt expect the amounth of players that came with it. Ao was very niche even for its time, the issues and complexity of the game caused it to be undersuccessfull.
So yes successwise you are probebly right, performance/ quality wise you are not.
For your amusement taken from one of your frequent sites :http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/4862

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What are you talking about? I never go to that site.

Just found this on Kotaku. While it's about FunCom's The Secret World, it starts off reminiscing about Anarchy Online.

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Originally Posted by Technodude

If i were you i would never quote mmorpg.com for anything..ever..!!

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You are right mmorpg.com has very jaded posted and the site always has been in the pockets of certain large companies like.. ea and blizzard. Even the posters Always have been in blizzards court there.
In general perception is blizzard cant do wrong.
The results vary per site, some chose ao as worst some WoW, and some dont even list ao (they do list wow) but list FFXIV instead.
Biggest difference is blizzard became/stayed a gigantic hit and ao (successwise) stayed at the bottom.
I still play WoW (since early stages of beta) and stopped playing ao give or take 2 years ago. I love both games, though blizzards lack of planning is getting old, but even that isnt worth quiting over. Fun is fun no matter how good or poorly it was planned or excecuted.
That side, Defiance had a pretty decent release, not perfect, but they have been honoust and upfront about it, clearly acknowlaging and working on resolving the issues.
Just like every other game regarldess of age this game still has plenty of options that can be improved, then again.. there always will be.

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Originally Posted by Ikagawa

What are you talking about? I never go to that site.

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Then Im confusing you with a poster there using the very same name and avatar.

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Originally Posted by Panthan

You are right mmorpg.com has very jaded posted and the site always has been in the pockets of certain large companies like.. ea and blizzard. Even the posters Always have been in blizzards court there.
In general perception is blizzard cant do wrong.
The results vary per site, some chose ao as worst some WoW, and some dont even list ao (they do list wow) but list FFXIV instead.
Biggest difference is blizzard became/stayed a gigantic hit and ao (successwise) stayed at the bottom.
I still play WoW (since early stages of beta) and stopped playing ao give or take 2 years ago. I love both games, though blizzards lack of planning is getting old, but even that isnt worth quiting over. Fun is fun no matter how good or poorly it was planned or excecuted.
That side, Defiance had a pretty decent release, not perfect, but they have been honoust and upfront about it, clearly acknowlaging and working on resolving the issues.
Just like every other game regarldess of age this game still has plenty of options that can be improved, then again.. there always will be.

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Yeah, I looked over a bunch of different sites, but pretty much none of them agree. Some didn't even list WoW or AO.

So obviously we're all just really opinionated :D

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Originally Posted by Ikagawa

Yeah, I looked over a bunch of different sites, but pretty much none of them agree. Some didn't even list WoW or AO.

So obviously we're all just really opinionated :D

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Aint that the truth ,(see we can agree on something)

AO and FunCom lives on in my heart though. It was my first MMO and I know on some things I have rose colored glasses, but that company was absolutely phenomenal. The staff actively taking part with in-game events, and having in-game storylines included with the overarching plot has still not been matched by any game I've partaken in.

I'm glad that AO was my first game in this genre because it showed me the potential a company has for how much it cares about its product and its consumers.

Ao wasnt my 1st mmo, but Ive enjoyed their products immensely. And it does saddens me both their lack of success and their decision to step out of the mmo market. Imo its a bad thing for the whole mmo market.
maybe thats part of my attraction towards Defiance..

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Originally Posted by Ikagawa

If they weren't playing Anarchy Online at launch, then they haven't seen anything.

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+1 jillion to this. AO was a gigantic charlie foxtrot at launch. It not only exploded on the launch pad it set fire to an orphanage and a petting zoo when it did. I smile whenever anyone says "worst launch ever" :D That being said I ended up playing for 10 years on and off and I still have fond memories.

By comparison, this launch has barely registered 1.5 on my WTFometer. Yeah it has bugs but they seem to be working on them. If there are still a lot of bugs in 3 months I might start to worry.

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Originally Posted by Coraline

Thanks for posting back log of info about mmos. Most people assume they know everything about mmos and how launch. No one remembers the launches of these games but will claim for example Defiance is the worst launch they have ever seen.

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lol this was not abad launch, tera had server drops, even tor had its issues, and conan... was not what i had hoped it owuld be "epic battles building towns and laying siege tot hem with epic fatalities making me feel like the governator". I wasn't here on day 1, but its very normal to have issues they hadnt had a chance to fix yet but have plans to from previous test versions and also for unforeseen issues to pop up that could only happenw ith more people and chances to run itno them after launch not to mention no amount of testing can prepare you tot ruly handle the load of players the first few days to weeks of a game's launch. lag/server crashes are pretty common in the first weeks and even month sof some mmos. hell, my first one (ten years ago) didnt even have a compass at first, we had to literally find people by spoken directions and it was a pretty huge and seamless world. even after the compass, spoken directions and landmarks wer eour bread & butter throughout the entire course of the game as their was no map. not to mention, we had server crashes still as a regular thing month s into that game lol. it must be people's first mmos when they don't expect server crashes or bugs or missing features whent hey bum rush to play the games on launch lol.

nice troll bait to start this thread, subtle.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Kaos

Okay, I get that all mmo's have launch issues and I'm a generlly patient guy so I can deal with it, but to be frank I don't get why the game industry is the only industry on the planet who get's a free pass on selling shoddy merchandise because, you know, "every game has bugs when they come out, we'll just patch it post-release." Seriously, if any other industry pulled that crap there'd be hell to pay. I mean could you imagine if television manufacturers or car companies operated like that? Or do you think you could tell your boss that you screwed up at work but since everyone else screws up it's cool? Like I said, I get that this happens and it doesn't bother me THAT much but it certianly doesn't make it right. And the people who complain have a legitimate right to do so I think.

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EXACTLY!!!! You know, when a person spends his hard earned cash, for example...ME!!...I have certain reasonable expectations, like, say, for example, that the GAME ACTUALLY WORKS, and that I CAN EVEN GET IN TO PLAY AT ALL! Those are reasonable expectations, one would think, of most gamers, experienced or otherwise.

Ok, that having been said, I understand that Trion Worlds has been hampered by the TV Show Premiere date that Syfy set. After all, they had a contract with each other. That is reasonable.

Now, if the reps of Trion understood that the date of the TV shows premiere would be a problem, then why did they enter into a contract? Maybe they thought they could handle the time constraints. One enters into a contract to make money. That is business, and that is reasonable.

I get all that.

I also get that from the majority of posts and threads that I have read in these forums, there has been a lot of issues and bugs. A LOT. So we have established that Defiance works, but not 100% of the time; one could argue that it is unreasonable to expect any game to work 100% of the time. I think that is fair. I say that if a game is only working between 40% to 70% of the time, then there is a problem. The question now is, are the number of bugs and issues that do exist, reasonable?

Apparently, the answer to that question is a matter of subjective opinion, and not of objective fact. I think a scientific study should be done of MMOs with comparative studies with hard data of which ones had the most problems and why. That would also include a close scrutiny of game development teams. Perhaps gamers should establish a consumers rights board to keep an eye on the gaming industry across multiple platforms to hold them to certain launch standards. Sounds like a good idea to me, thought I would throw that out there.

So, before anyone jumps on anyone else in these threads about people being QQers, ask yourself how much you are willing to put up with and how long you should wait for things to get fixed. What is reasonable to you?

So OP and Devs: How long should I be patient for my problem to be addressed? 5 more days? 2 more weeks? A month? 3 months? A year??

Honestly, I'm questioning the validity of some peoples posts here claiming this/that/other game had bad launches.
It feels like people are having a mass delusional complex. I don't remember it ever being as bad as some say and I've played all mentioned here. :|

Lucky for some huh?