Lack of progression will push people away.

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Originally Posted by Spike9

Ok...im level 1480...i use an assault rifle i found at 138...luv it...won't give it up...love the synergy perks it has...but my character progression with my rifles is at 19...come at me with those legendary orange anythings and see what happens... <3

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What you find to be awesome I find to be just sad - that an ego level 138 item is more desireable than a 1480 one. For a game based so much on loot it sure doesn't seem to be all that rewarding. But hey that's just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Booshy

Uh, yeah - I listed those single player games because you said "non-mmo games don't need progression so why does an mmo?" - and I listed how most single player games DO have progression. At least single player games in the same vein as this one, unlike the examples you gave (arcade, card, board, sports)

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Defiance is hardly single player though, and single player games are but a facet of the picture. I don't play Defiance like a single player game. Do you? Not to mention there are arcade shooter games and multiplayer PC shooter games (and even an MMO PC shooter game, hi Planetside!) with minimal progression.

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Originally Posted by Booshy

I'm really not following you and the other person's argument, but just reading this one post is enough to know that even if you had a legitimate argument, it would just be overshadowed by your infantile attitude.

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And YOU haven't made an argument at all. My response was simply the fact that the OP refuses to see anything short of his nose. To go into more detail, perhaps you SHOULD follow my responses to him, and the fact that myself (and others) have tried to break down what he's saying and whining about in terms that he can understand. All of it has fallen on deaf ears.

Now.. YOU can come up with a solid argument, or you can ride the OP's coat-tails and pretend your more important and intelligent than the rest of us. From YOUR posts, I'd say it'll be the latter, because you sure don't have a clue how to do the former without regurgitating the "tried and true" arguments that really do nothing more than show the world exactly how short sighted you and the OP really are.

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Originally Posted by Booshy

What you find to be awesome I find to be just sad - that an ego level 138 item is more desireable than a 1480 one. For a game based so much on loot it sure doesn't seem to be all that rewarding. But hey that's just my opinion.

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Game based on Loot?

Uhm.. huh?

What game are YOU playing?

Loot has VERY LITTLE to do with this game. This game requires SKILL. If you can't handle the fact that you can't bypass your LACK of skill by grinding away mindlessly for hours and hours and days and days and weeks and weeks to get that uber-awesome-god-mode gear to be any form of competitive.. then perhaps this type of game and game system just isn't for you. We already know it's not for the OP.

Getting tired of people saying Ego 5000 is the cap. A little research and you'll find that Ego 5000 is just a pursuit goal, the Devs have stated many times that there is no Ego cap.

I personally find the 4 mod slot weapons I'm finding at Ego 1000+ to be alot nicer than the 0 mod slot weapons I was getting at Ego 400, Not needing to spend 80-90K Arkfall loot to open mod slots feels like progress to me.

So for all the "this game is awesome, I loves me my stale unchanging bread everyday" crowd, once you've completed all the quests, and are sitting at about 1200-1500+ ego, please tell us what is going to keep you playing the game? I'd really love to know what the game currently offers that will keep you playing, that you aren't eventually going to grow tired of. I'm talking what is in the game right now, not things that may or may not happen. Now ask yourself, if none of these things changed, will I still love them 6 months from now, or a year from now?

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Originally Posted by Frost033

I'm only at EGO 420 or so but the guns I'm finding are EXACTLY the same as the ones I found at 10, 20, 80, 100, etc. Other than story, I'm having a hard time getting motivated to play.

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Same type / subtype weapons are not exactly the same regardless of power level. What you pick up off the ground or buy from a vendor are not finished products, they are a template or foundation allowing players to build /customize the weapons in the way they want via weapon mods. Higher power level weapons also seem to have a chance for better special mods in their base stats (like +X rate of fire, clip, reload speed, etc) as well as the additional bonus you unlock for leveling the gun up.

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Originally Posted by Frost033

And IF by some chance you do find a gun you enjoy, you only get it for a limited time because the game forces you to use different guns once they're maxed out in XP if you want to gain anymore weapon XP. How does that make ANY sense??

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It makes sense because using the same educational resource over and over again will deplete its value until there is nothing more you can learn from it. Test a person in algebra, give them a book about algebra to read and then test them again. Have that person read the book ten more times and test them once more. You learn this person's grasp of mathematics is improving at this point. Have the person read the same algebra book a thousand more times and then give them a calculus test and see how they do.

At some point this person's grasp of mathematics stopped improving because they had learned all they could and while continued practice might improve the person's grasp of algebra it does nothing for mathematics as a whole. If you want that person's grasp of mathematics as a whole they'll need a different book to read.

The same applies to the weapons in defiance. When a weapon levels up you unlock a new statistical bonus which signifies complete mastery of the weapon. There is no more knowledge you could gain from that weapon and if you want your gun handling skills over all to improve you'll need to work with a different gun.

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Originally Posted by PseudoCool

Ok.. I'm going to break this down for you so that even YOU can understand it...

In most of your MMO's, as you level up, you get more powerful. You start doing more damage.. you get to see those little numbers roll off your target like inverted rain on a hot Oklahoma sunday. And those numbers get HUGE...

So at level 10, your hitting your target for like 30 points of damage per shot. Your feeling pretty puny because it's taking you 10 shots/hits to drop a single enemy. Or maybe 8 if you get lucky and pop a crit.

So.. you jam it out.. and get allll the way up to level 50.. your crafting skill is crazy high, and you've got all the monster gear in the game. You are the bee's knees. Your the cat's pajama's... You are the UBER-PWNZOR!!

So you go into this giant boss fight.. and you hitting this minion with your massive shots doing 4K or 5K per hit.. and his health bar is just dropping, and your like "YEAH MOFO! WHO'S Your Daddy!?!"

But.. here's the thing your NOT catching...

Instead of taking 10 shots (or 8 if you crit) to beat that poor little minion up at level 10 doing 30hp per hit...
Your *STILL* taking 8 to 10 shots at level 50 to beat that new poor little minion up doing 4K per shot.

YOU don't get any more powerful! The enemies just get more HP to deal with your ability to deal out more damage.

Level Progression = Damage Output IS THE GREAT LIE!

If you want to keep drinking that koolaid dude.. there's a litany of games for you to play out there.. go grind away for your gear and your fake and non-glorious progression.

NONE OF THAT is what Defiance IS. Sorry that you spent your $60 on a game that didn't fit your mindset of what "every game should be dammit!", but ya did. Time to either broaden your horizons on gaming, or take the bullet train to "geargrindville". Your call.

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thats the point of getting more powerfull so you can fight new harder enemies. new enemies,stronger enemies =more fun. dark matter is supposed to be hardest enemies. feels like im fighting mutants they reskined and gave a shield. if you are happy with that then good for you. but clearly alot of ppl are not. see how fun the game when they all get boared and quit

Pretty disappointed with the half-assed progression, myself. All of the grind of other MMOs, none of the reward.
The fact that you have to keep tossing out/shelving perfectly good weapons because otherwise you won't earn exp for that skill? That's just the dog's dropping on the disappointment sundae.

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Originally Posted by Booshy

What you find to be awesome I find to be just sad - that an ego level 138 item is more desireable than a 1480 one. For a game based so much on loot it sure doesn't seem to be all that rewarding. But hey that's just my opinion.

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and with this one comment you have proven how little you know or understand about this game.
Let me enlighten you.
THIS GAME IS ABOUT SKILL>GEAR
Not the wow formula of lets take a scrub with no skill slap him in some purple and have the gear carry him to victory.
Wow wasn't like that in the beginning. It require coordination and skill to progress through molten core when you didn't have any gear. Then scrubs like this showed up whined on the forums for a year or so and the decs finally said hey lets make the game more casual.
I raided Naxx back when it cost like 300gold to atune for it and it was a 40man raid. Now that sir took skill.
This group finder beat the raid with a pick up group garbage you whiny ****s have turned it into. If you want to have gear>skill go back to wow you have ****ed that game up enough dont bring that garbage here.