Nim should be nerfed a wee bit

One other data point for Trion (and the interested thread readers) to consider. Being unable to complete Nim doesn't just block you from "the story ending (for now)". It also blocks you from ALL side missions. Yes, you heard right. Until you either beat Nim or you completely abandon that mission entirely, you have ZERO access to ANY side missions.

This is a problem because it takes roughly 30 minutes to even get to the last stage of the overall mission where you can fight Nim. Many gamers are pressed for time with short time windows. Some of the gamer types I mention in the OP experience a lot of wrist/shoulder/hand fatigue just getting to the very last stage of the mission where they can start the 3-stage fight with Nim. This fatigue puts them at a further disadvantage against Nim.

Point being, it's not a good option for people stuck on Nim to abandon the mission entirely, because they have to start completely over with all the prelude fighting just to attempt Nim again. So if you're stuck on Nim, you're -effectively- stalled for much of the game content.

And lets put one other thing in perspective. Nim is a twitch fight, pure and outright. Not a strategic fight, not a tactical fight, not a thinking fight. There is no "skill" involved other than manual dexterity, physical stamina in the fingers/wrist/shoulder, and sheer reaction speed. This is a "lazy designer" fight. It's fundamentally no different than the crap Robert Hrouda (from ArenaNet) designed in all of the dungeons in GW2, which is just bosses with huge health pools and cheap one-shots with zero telegraphs, and/or swarms of lieut weenies that are guaranteed to randomly down at least one person or more each fight because there is zero aggro control in GW2. By contrast, look to The Secret World, which has 6 bosses per dungeon with some GREAT mechanics to understand and coordinate as a team against.

Most of you who've beat Nim and say he's easy can agree: he's just got three patterns that are easy to see, easy to figure out, and easy to beat IF YOU HAVE STAMINA, REFLEXES, and MUSCLE MEMORY developed from lots of shooter playing.

A fair number of MMO players and older gamers and handicapped gamers (there are LOTS) do not have STAMINA, REFLEXES, and MUSCLE MEMORY.

By contrast, the Jackleg fight is much more tactical and far less twitch oriented. There's a pattern there too, but it's tricky to execute in a way that requires patience, not twitch. But even the Jackleg fight is a "lazy designer's" fight in some ways: there's only one pattern, one trick.

IMO some of the best fights in the game are the coop fights and even the emergencies and arkfalls, simply because they require you to use your brain to survive and conquer. You have to think about using cover, not overextending, when and how to flank, how to prioritize the snipers or archers or RPG tube dudes, etc. Every fight is interesting and engages your BRAIN more than your reflexes.

I had no problem with the guy. Died a few times to figured out his pattern, killed him with a pistol only. Best to use a flare pistol with electric damage and have a mod of there that adds to it's clip size. I finished this guy the first week of game drop, all I did was jump around to reload and rolled out the way to turn invisible to find him and blast him to death with the pistol, I had an SMG to get rid of his duplicates and pistol whipped the the stuffing out of the guy. No nerf needed, I'd say his coding is right where it needs to be, but what is needed is a better weapon when you beat him. What ever tactic you use to beat him (even if you make the fight 1 sided), no nerf is needed.

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Originally Posted by Yokai

One other data point for Trion (and the interested thread readers) to consider. Being unable to complete Nim doesn't just block you from "the story ending (for now)". It also blocks you from ALL side missions. Yes, you heard right. Until you either beat Nim or you completely abandon that mission entirely, you have ZERO access to ANY side missions.

This is a problem because it takes roughly 30 minutes to even get to the last stage of the overall mission where you can fight Nim. Many gamers are pressed for time with short time windows. Some of the gamer types I mention in the OP experience a lot of wrist/shoulder/hand fatigue just getting to the very last stage of the mission where they can start the 3-stage fight with Nim. This fatigue puts them at a further disadvantage against Nim.

Point being, it's not a good option for people stuck on Nim to abandon the mission entirely, because they have to start completely over with all the prelude fighting just to attempt Nim again. So if you're stuck on Nim, you're -effectively- stalled for much of the game content.

And lets put one other thing in perspective. Nim is a twitch fight, pure and outright. Not a strategic fight, not a tactical fight, not a thinking fight. There is no "skill" involved other than manual dexterity, physical stamina in the fingers/wrist/shoulder, and sheer reaction speed. This is a "lazy designer" fight. It's fundamentally no different than the crap Robert Hrouda (from ArenaNet) designed in all of the dungeons in GW2, which is just bosses with huge health pools and cheap one-shots with zero telegraphs, and/or swarms of lieut weenies that are guaranteed to randomly down at least one person or more each fight because there is zero aggro control in GW2. By contrast, look to The Secret World, which has 6 bosses per dungeon with some GREAT mechanics to understand and coordinate as a team against.

Most of you who've beat Nim and say he's easy can agree: he's just got three patterns that are easy to see, easy to figure out, and easy to beat IF YOU HAVE STAMINA, REFLEXES, and MUSCLE MEMORY developed from lots of shooter playing.

A fair number of MMO players and older gamers and handicapped gamers (there are LOTS) do not have STAMINA, REFLEXES, and MUSCLE MEMORY.

By contrast, the Jackleg fight is much more tactical and far less twitch oriented. There's a pattern there too, but it's tricky to execute in a way that requires patience, not twitch. But even the Jackleg fight is a "lazy designer's" fight in some ways: there's only one pattern, one trick.

IMO some of the best fights in the game are the coop fights and even the emergencies and arkfalls, simply because they require you to use your brain to survive and conquer. You have to think about using cover, not overextending, when and how to flank, how to prioritize the snipers or archers or RPG tube dudes, etc. Every fight is interesting and engages your BRAIN more than your reflexes.

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Spot on, Yokai... Everyone is different and has different abilities... Time for people to consider that.

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Originally Posted by Munki 77

This is why I very rarely visit forums.
No one is crying or complaining as such, we are discussing how to make the game balanced for players of all skill levels.
Like adults!!!!

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no Ciannon right, its not "discussing" its complaining. if my child was doing what you guys are doing I would beat the **** out of it! a real man (adult) would be asking the best tactics and procedures to kill nim, the fact that some people have beat him already just proves your argument wrong. if no one could beat him then I would be agreeing with you...
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/v...rn-gazelle.gif

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Originally Posted by Pace122004

no Ciannon right, its not "discussing" its complaining. if my child was doing what you guys are doing I would beat the **** out of it!

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Here's me hoping you never have children then.

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Originally Posted by Pace122004

no Ciannon right, its not "discussing" its complaining. if my child was doing what you guys are doing I would beat the **** out of it! a real man (adult) would be asking the best tactics and procedures to kill nim, the fact that some people have beat him already just proves your argument wrong. if no one could beat him then I would be agreeing with you...
http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/v...rn-gazelle.gif

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i HOPE YOU NEVER HAVE THE PRIVILEGE TO HAVE CHILDREN. For One you do not call your child an IT. Secondly beating him because he comes to you and says daddy the boss is to hard for me to beat. As a good father i would let him know that it is not impossible and show him what would do. These guys are kinda asking the same thing. They Just wish they could do it with a group or to add difficulty setting. Many Games have difficulty settings. World Of Warcraft to name one(i know it isn't a FPS, and i know Defiance isn't an MMO.)

Pace122004 is a troll so people ignore him. To Yokai we know you have to abandon mission to do the side missions its not that big of a deal once you level up doing them you will get some muscle memory and will have more perks. The story doesn't continue after you beat nim so your not being cut off from anything. I agree theirs needs to be a difficulty setting but no one is gona take you serious if over exagerate.

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Originally Posted by Yokai

One other data point for Trion (and the interested thread readers) to consider. Being unable to complete Nim doesn't just block you from "the story ending (for now)". It also blocks you from ALL side missions. Yes, you heard right. Until you either beat Nim or you completely abandon that mission entirely, you have ZERO access to ANY side missions.

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But yes, you can abandon the mission, get better at the game and come back later without suffering any disadvantage.
The fight has 3 phases because every good boss fight should have more than one facette, this is not done to annoy you but to make the fight more fun for pretty much everybody else.

And you're not stuck with fighting all the little guys before Nim, it's a privilage to get mobs thrown at you to be rewarded with EGO and weapon EXP. ;>

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Originally Posted by Yokai

And lets put one other thing in perspective. Nim is a twitch fight, pure and outright. Not a strategic fight, not a tactical fight, not a thinking fight. There is no "skill" involved other than manual dexterity, physical stamina in the fingers/wrist/shoulder, and sheer reaction speed.

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You're right, there's little skill involved because little skill is needed if prepared correclty (same goes for GW2 btw, even though your right on the HP pools). Prepare yourself and know your enemy.

Know your enemy means simply know when to dodge.
Preparation means equip the right grenade (frag), shield (less than 3 sec delay and high recharge), feats (ghost and supporting traits) and weapon (shotgun and rapid fire weapon with solid movement accuracy).
I read posts of people who are so hellbent on using FRC SAWs they even use it for Nim and then whine about the fight. And yes, handicapping yourself makes the fight obnoxiously hard, I get that.

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Originally Posted by Yokai

A fair number of MMO players and older gamers and handicapped gamers (there are LOTS) do not have STAMINA, REFLEXES, and MUSCLE MEMORY.

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I am an MMO player and horrible at shooters, but pressing to dodge once in a while isn't a great feat. Not standing in fire and reacting quickly is also very important for MMO raiding and seperates the good from the bad ... even more so since you have plenty of different keys to press and not only one.
For the handicapped players ... I know this might sound like me being an *******, but shooters are not for people with inferior reflexes ... just as driving a car isn't for the blind. Handicapped means "not fully operationable" and by that means "has limitations on what he/she can do that other people naturally can".

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Originally Posted by Yokai

But even the Jackleg fight is a "lazy designer's" fight in some ways: there's only one pattern, one trick.

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If there would be a multitude of patterns, more add spawns while the boss is engaging you and a higher rate of fire by Joe the fight would be less lazy, I agree.
The fight then also would be a lot more difficult so you just torpedoed your own basic argument since this is exactly what Nim is like: more patterns, more than one dangerous opponent at a time and high rate of attacks (compared to Joe).

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Originally Posted by Yokai

IMO some of the best fights in the game are the coop fights and even the emergencies and arkfalls, simply because they require you to use your brain to survive and conquer.

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I highly disagree with the arkfalls - my brain goes to standby there and it's just a matter of "how can I continue not getting hit by the useless adds and not run out of ammo holding down the fire button".
Co-op is a hit and miss ... to be honest for 4 players all the bosses are too easy and not tuned tightly enough. Had 2 dc's at Dekuso and suddenly the fight became a whole new level of entertaining. We really had to work together, take our time with the adds.
I guess it's because most bosses only attack one player usually and who ever has aggro then runs to safety while the rest unloads their guns. Motherload phase 2, Hulker in the tiny room in 101 and Dekuso are a bit of an exception.
In general, big units (eg. Tankers) and bosses should have a rate of fire increase for each player (up to a limit ofc) fighting them and switch targets more frequently.
Some difficulty comes from stupid co-players though, when they ignore the adds on Motherload and you suddenly find yourself attacked by a couple of ranged elites and chased by the boss at the same time and nobody is helping you it gets a fight for survival quickly ;>

After reading Yokai last post more carefully I'm begining to think he is a troll.

I just wanted to mention that I used an infector to fight Nim, and I was able to beat him on the first try. I switched through several other weapons at first, but then I concluded that dotting him up with the infector was the best way to go for my playstyle. I also used Decoy to take the heat off me when my shield got low, and I dodged his attacks and used cover and as much as possible.

I hope that helps.