Everything in this game just seems... pointless...

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Originally Posted by jnt

Edited to avoid massive quotes rather then avoiding anything you said.


Sense of accomplishment is a great reward that comes through challenges. I felt that way after Nim. I know Defiance could do it. The rest of the game, at least for me, is so easy as to deprive me of any sense of accomplishment at all. Probably the root of my issue there.

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I agree 100%. I felt great after beating Jackleg Joe, especially after reading so many people had a hard time with it. I did it first try. I knew it was a hard fight, but hadn't read anything specific about what happened. I was very pleased. I come from a major end-game guild on EQ, I'm used to very challenging challenging content, 54 man raids where one person could fail the event. I'm dying to find a game that can give me that challenge again, and I really hope Defiance does add some more challenging content, because right now, I haven't found any difficult challenge, because I can just die and run back to finish what I started. Failing an event just doesn't seem possible.

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Originally Posted by ironhands

I assume you meant rewards for skill based game play. The reward doesn't have to be an item, it can be satisfaction from the completion or a high rank on a leader board, just like it is with a lobby based game. Even if it was an item though, as the OP said, most games are pretty pointless overall. The reward of an item gets pretty pointless in Borderlands as well.

Really, it comes down to WHY we play games to being with. If we play a game for story completion, we can usually resolve the current main story set in a day or two, and wait for new content and DLC. If we play it to develop a character and feel good about making a character who can now crush everything from last week in a single blow, there's much repetition, and content made obsolete, leaving very little content once we've peaked, again, until new content is made. If we play it for personal satisfaction for leader boards and bragging rights, it's likely the same event over and over with different people. If we play it for loot, what do we do after we get "the best" loot?

Strong story focus, means limited replay value, and generally a short play time (Bioshock series). Focus on character/item progression? Generally an illusion, since the enemies will also scale in difficulty, until they eventually plateau, meaning any replayability would lose appeal and lock you into an end-zone(WoW, D3). Focus on leaderboards, you deal with the same levels over and over, with different characters, and a massive difference between noobs and l33ts (tf2, dota2, l4d)

Really, at the end, it's all the same, and a matter of balancing all of these things in an enjoyable package. Is it possible?

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No its not the same, theres a reason gear grind works, theres a reason gear grindin games stay afloat for years and years (WoW, RoM) This game posses no rhyme or reason for anything, the stage wasnt set up for rhyme or reason, even the tps crowds are disgusted with this format, It doesnt cater to anyone but the ones who are scared of the grind, but if presented in a casual way, they it makes grinding fullfilling. Pursuit grinding, by comparison, is far worse than gear grinding, getting +5ego for doing a weeks worth of grinding and you have the nerve to use the carrot on the stick expression!!..

A pointless shooter, and the only time sink is a pursuit grind, but as long as it isnt (XP grind) its cool.

Population is dropping...

I appreciate the banter, i have no intentions to disrespect...

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Originally Posted by Daholic

Pursuit grinding, by comparison, is far worse than gear grinding, getting +5ego for doing a weeks worth of grinding and you have the nerve to use the carrot on the stick expression!!..

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Difference:
- in a gear-grind game you MUST farm next tier of items or you can't complete content
- in a skill based game you can farm for gear IF YOU WANT, but you can complete all the game contents with
the starting weapons

If you can't see the difference, well

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Originally Posted by Daholic

Population is dropping...

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Source... ?

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Originally Posted by ironhands

I agree 100%. I felt great after beating Jackleg Joe, especially after reading so many people had a hard time with it. I did it first try. I knew it was a hard fight, but hadn't read anything specific about what happened. I was very pleased. I come from a major end-game guild on EQ, I'm used to very challenging challenging content, 54 man raids where one person could fail the event. I'm dying to find a game that can give me that challenge again, and I really hope Defiance does add some more challenging content, because right now, I haven't found any difficult challenge, because I can just die and run back to finish what I started. Failing an event just doesn't seem possible.

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Yeah those years of EQ have undoubtedly ruined my appreciation of simple easy games :P

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Originally Posted by ironhands

I agree 100%. I felt great after beating Jackleg Joe, especially after reading so many people had a hard time with it. I did it first try. I knew it was a hard fight, but hadn't read anything specific about what happened. I was very pleased. I come from a major end-game guild on EQ, I'm used to very challenging challenging content, 54 man raids where one person could fail the event. I'm dying to find a game that can give me that challenge again, and I really hope Defiance does add some more challenging content, because right now, I haven't found any difficult challenge, because I can just die and run back to finish what I started. Failing an event just doesn't seem possible.

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Go play Runes of Magic, best mmorpg out there right now. Has vitually no advertisement, endgame content, and dungeon boss fights the most epic ive seen

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Originally Posted by Orge Lambart

If he went to play something else, he couldn't get other people to validate his existence. After all unless people validate his opinion it'll make him a sad panda. He could easily go play something else until they add more content, or fix the bugs or anything else. He just finds it way more productive to whine on the message boards.

I mean he only probably put like 30 - 40 hours into the game... I mean in all that time he could have beaten COD about 17 times.

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His message was fully legit. He said he loved the game, but was getting bored of it fast, which is a complaint a few people have (Im not there yet, I still love it, but who knows down the road)

Validate his own existence? Like, your either such a try hard in real life or just a complete tool, either way it pains me to see your words, and how pathetic they make you look.

Sometimes I go out for a run WITH OUT A CARROT!

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Originally Posted by Bartuc

Sometimes I go out for a run WITH OUT A CARROT!

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********. Do you seriously not enjoy running? I ONLY run because I enjoy it. That's the carrot right there.

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Originally Posted by r3dl4nce

Difference:
- in a gear-grind game you MUST farm next tier of items or you can't complete content
- in a skill based game you can farm for gear IF YOU WANT, but you can complete all the game contents with
the starting weapons

If you can't see the difference, well


Source... ?

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Yes sir, i have a reason to do content, and the fact that im not able to run an instance only makes me want to try and get better gear, and have a decent rotation in spells.

I see the difference, you see the difference, now we're comparing which game will challenge you the most.

If i can things with noob weapons..ehh you understand what im saying.

I have no source, was a tongue in cheek comment. I guess you can eat my lunch for that haha