Constructive PvE feedback from a guy with more than 2300 EGO.

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Originally Posted by Evilution

It's all well in saying that, but when a game focuses on none scaling items and enemies that don't really scale in difficulty, it could be really hard to implement. You can say people need to be better, but when a games item system doesn't scale with the increased difficulty of a group of enemies in an instance, it can be more about the game mechanics than actual player skill.

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The point is that the player skill overcomes the increased difficulty, one-off instances may be harder to scale up as you go but they still could. In a big post coming up I suggest that to give people a sense of competition you could start to do things like the L4D style survival instances with leaderboards for longest survival times, along with a load of other suggestions.

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Originally Posted by Jack Johnson

No non-elite enemies, more enemies, and have a higher proportion of enemies with nano effects. Scale up the hitpoints on the bosses so you can't ignore the adds and burn through like players frequently do in the easy mode versions. Doesn't seem that difficult to me.

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I can understand that, as way of increased difficulties. I just had a different picture in mind, maybe from playing different hard modes in other games clouded my perspective :p

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Originally Posted by Evilution

It's all well in saying that, but when a game focuses on none scaling items and enemies that don't really scale in difficulty, it could be really hard to implement. You can say people need to be better, but when a games item system doesn't scale with the increased difficulty of a group of enemies in an instance, it can be more about the game mechanics than actual player skill.

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I do not see the rationale behind stating that your effective strength doesn't increase, it's simply not true.

How does a shield with +50% hp regen doesn't increase your survival?
How does an assault rifle with increased accuracy, damage, a SCOPE, and increased melee damage, all from mods, not make it better than one without? Or synergy bonuses that increase it's effectiveness even more, a faster reload and reduced recoil?

Just because it's DPS on the sheet doesn't increase, doesn't mean it's not better than a lvl200 white.

Then we have perks that drastically change how your character functions. Just because there isn't an arbitrary number increase every time you "level up" doesn't mean there is no progression. It's a typical MMO mindset and it's simply WRONG. The progression is slow, and more subtle but it most certainly is there.

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Originally Posted by Hexi

I do not see the rationale behind stating that your effective strength doesn't increase, it's simply not true.

How does a shield with +50% hp regen doesn't increase your survival?
How does an assault rifle with increased accuracy, damage, a SCOPE, and increased melee damage, all from mods, not make it better than one without? Or synergy bonuses that increase it's effectiveness even more, a faster reload and reduced recoil?

Just because it's DPS on the sheet doesn't increase, doesn't mean it's not better than a lvl200 white.

Then we have perks that drastically change how your character functions. Just because there isn't an arbitrary number increase every time you "level up" doesn't mean there is no progression. It's a typical MMO mindset and it's simply WRONG. The progression is slow, and more subtle but it most certainly is there.

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Maybe I worded it wrong saying none scaling items, but that doesn't change the fact that the increases are minor. They put it in game to try and make it an even playing field for everyone, so the difficulty increases have to be inclined with that. Don't get me wrong, the co-op instances as they stand are easy as is, we shouldn't just think I want to level this weapon and just run 'n' gun through the whole thing. But the game has set itself it's own barriers when it comes to high increases in difficulties, there's a fine margain between racking up difficulty and weapon/ego progression in this game.

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Originally Posted by Evilution

Maybe I worded it wrong saying none scaling items, but that doesn't change the fact that the increases are minor. They put it in game to try and make it an even playing field for everyone, so the difficulty increases have to be inclined with that. Don't get me wrong, the co-op instances as they stand are easy as is, we shouldn't just think I want to level this weapon and just run 'n' gun through the whole thing. But the game has set itself it's own barriers when it comes to high increases in difficulties, there's a fine margain between racking up difficulty and weapon/ego progression in this game.

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I agree, the tuning of any possible "hard modes" need to be done EXTRA carefully, and also take into consideration perk choices available as to not force people into a certain build JUST to survive but as they currently are I, personally, find them all trivial and boring. That however, I just *MY* personal opinion and in no way am I trying to suggest or argue that everyone does or should find them as such as well. What I am suggesting is that could be a "bit" harder, not extremely.

I don't understand why I can get 2x blue+ drops from a major arkfall or a blue drop from killing a Tanker but don't get a weapon drop from killing a co-op boss, even if this isn't a traditional MMO and even if there is no difference really between EGO rating weapons people are still gonna want to grind for loot. If Trion can't come up with something that will drive people to replay the content (leaderboards/skins/orange drops) then there is no way they can release enough content to keep people happy.

I wasn't in Beta but I'm starting to wish I was because whoever didn't give feed back on the mechanics like 1 lvl weapons and no loot bosses should be ashamed. I really like the concept of this game but in a market now dominated by game w/o subscriptions you really have to hold onto a player base right at launch and if you can't they'll just move onto the next game.

Personally I'll give the game some time but I'm currently Beta testing a few other games and Defiance is gonna have to fight for my time.

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Originally Posted by Hexi

I agree, the tuning of any possible "hard modes" need to be done EXTRA carefully, and also take into consideration perk choices available as to not force people into a certain build JUST to survive but as they currently are I, personally, find them all trivial and boring. That however, I just *MY* personal opinion and in no way am I trying to suggest or argue that everyone does or should find them as such as well. What I am suggesting is that could be a "bit" harder, not extremely.

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I'd like an instance that forces to mess with builds to only just survive, whilst people want instances a bit harder, I'd love a nearly impossible mode. The kind where you can see that somehow it's just about possible but it's going to take perfection.

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Originally Posted by Otaku

I don't understand why I can get 2x blue+ drops from a major arkfall or a blue drop from killing a Tanker but don't get a weapon drop from killing a co-op boss, even if this isn't a traditional MMO and even if there is no difference really between EGO rating weapons people are still gonna want to grind for loot. If Trion can't come up with something that will drive people to replay the content (leaderboards/skins/orange drops) then there is no way they can release enough content to keep people happy.

I wasn't in Beta but I'm starting to wish I was because whoever didn't give feed back on the mechanics like 1 lvl weapons and no loot bosses should be ashamed. I really like the concept of this game but in a market now dominated by game w/o subscriptions you really have to hold onto a player base right at launch and if you can't they'll just move onto the next game.

Personally I'll give the game some time but I'm currently Beta testing a few other games and Defiance is gonna have to fight for my time.

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People gave lots of feedback in alpha/beta. Turnover time from feedback to implementation was rather... bad, though.

Current instances are maybe Mass Effect 3 Silver difficulty . I'd love to see hardmodes equivalent to Mass Effect 3 Platinum difficulty. Just my opinion though. Even if it only ramped up to say the equivalent of Gold difficulty that'd be going somewhere.

Thanks for the positive feedback and support.

If I gather my information right the main issue for most people really is the lack of challenge plus an according reward, especially in co-op instances.