Actual feedback: Cloak.

Now, this is just my personal opinion, but seeing as everyone has a problem with Cloak and shotguns I thought I'd voice a well thought out and give evidence as to why the cloak/shotgun combo is so immensely overpowered in pvp.

First point. Cloak currently has no downside. You cloak and your shield Immediately starts recharging. in Pve this is fine. In PvP it's overpowered. for instance, I had ran out of ammo in my primary weapons mag so I did the sensible thing and switched to my secondary a BMG and immediately locked onto this guy. What do you think happened? His shield kept regenerating though my damage. WHAT?

Cloak immediately starting regeneration once is fine, but for it to continually recharge while cloak is active makes it Overpowered.

Second point. Shadowed strike. three ego points and you can do more damage without being seen at point blank range than at mid range for 5 ego points(without the added benefit of being invisible) with Overcharge. Either severely reduce the damage buff in general for this perk, or spread the buff out over all the pellets on a shotgun rather than give a 30% buff to each one.

Countering cloak. Currently (legitimately) countering cloak is with Decoy's Sensor Sweep perk. Honestly this perk could have been done better. have it work with a cooldown but be centered on the player and not need decoy be active to work. IE: for 2 seconds all enemies(could be limited to cloaked) in a 5/10/15 meter range are revealed. Cooldown 10 Seconds. Half the range on the original concept to account for the changed mechanics But a lot more useful than its current form.

Just my two cents on the matter.

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Originally Posted by ItISLupus

Now, this is just my personal opinion, but seeing as everyone has a problem with Cloak and shotguns I thought I'd voice a well thought out and give evidence as to why the cloak/shotgun combo is so immensely overpowered in pvp.

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Shotgun is in incredibly powerfull at close range while useless at long range. Cloak totally eliminates its longrange downside, thats all. No neeed for your wall.

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Originally Posted by Dwane

No neeed for your wall.

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His post is not a wall. I'm sorry that his post cannot account for your attention span.


Now, onto your post Lupus. As much as I like you, I cannot deny the fact that I disagree with some of your points. Do not despair, however! There are also Ideas that you've mentioned that I like. Both of which I will comment on in a civilized manner.

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Originally Posted by ItISLupus

Now, this is just my personal opinion, but seeing as everyone has a problem with Cloak and shotguns I thought I'd voice a well thought out and give evidence as to why the cloak/shotgun combo is so immensely overpowered in pvp.

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This, of course, is the first point that I disagree with. Here's why. Since release I have used the Cloak/shotty combo in PvP. Now, before you disregard the rest of my post because I am "one of them", here me out, because I have been on both sides of the fence. For the thinking man it is obvious that there are several ways to counter a cloaked shotgunner. Decoy is of course the most obvious answer. However, sensor sweep is not a necessary perk. It is useful, yes, but not necessary. Other options include:
1. Using a flame grenade
2. Using a fire weapon
3. Using an infector that causes continuous damage
All three of theses have one thing in common: should they hit their mark, they all will cause continuous damage. This renders cloak useless for the duration of the offending effect, sometimes lasting longer than the remaining time on cloak itself. Another option is keeping away from crowded areas. You might say "but that is where all the kills are!". This is true, however, you can do just as much damage from a longer range while staying away from the cloaker's "playground". Using cloak yourself to mask your movements is not a bad idea. Explosives with a large AoE also tend to dispatch cloaked shotgunners quite nicely.

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Originally Posted by ItISLupus

First point. Cloak currently has no downside. You cloak and your shield Immediately starts recharging. in Pve this is fine. In PvP it's overpowered. for instance, I had ran out of ammo in my primary weapons mag so I did the sensible thing and switched to my secondary a BMG and immediately locked onto this guy. What do you think happened? His shield kept regenerating though my damage. WHAT?

Cloak immediately starting regeneration once is fine, but for it to continually recharge while cloak is active makes it Overpowered.

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This is a point that I can agree with. I can understand the idea of having cloak automatically start recharging shields, but for that to be a constant effect that cannot be stopped by damage is absurd. I would not be opposed to the idea of shields to stop recharging if hit while cloaked, then resume under their own, normal cooldown time.

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Originally Posted by ItISLupus

Second point. Shadowed strike. three ego points and you can do more damage without being seen at point blank range than at mid range for 5 ego points(without the added benefit of being invisible) with Overcharge. Either severely reduce the damage buff in general for this perk, or spread the buff out over all the pellets on a shotgun rather than give a 30% buff to each one.

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This is not true. I have just looked at the boosts provided by each perk. Both five you a +30% damage boost while active.

Also, I would like to know how you came to the conclusion that the 30% buff to damage via Shadow Strike is applied to each pellet rather than the shot as a whole. I am not calling you a liar, I would just like to see a source for this information.

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Originally Posted by ItISLupus

Countering cloak. Currently (legitimately) countering cloak is with Decoy's Sensor Sweep perk. Honestly this perk could have been done better. have it work with a cooldown but be centered on the player and not need decoy be active to work. IE: for 2 seconds all enemies(could be limited to cloaked) in a 5/10/15 meter range are revealed. Cooldown 10 Seconds. Half the range on the original concept to account for the changed mechanics But a lot more useful than its current form.

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I am not at all sure how this perk could have been done better. After "respecing", just to see the different levels of this perk, I see that at rank 1 you get 10 meters, rank 2 you get 20 meters, and rank 3 you get a 30 meter radius from your decoy. I admit that I have not used this perk, but I would assume that one cannot see cloakers (who have been revealed via this perk) through walls, and that this would be most useful in shadow wars or in bigger spaces/maps.

I do like the idea that you have for it, but, instead of applying to Decoy, why not give Blur that perk? For Overcharge it could be related to explosive damage.

Now for my two cents:
There are many ways to counter a cloaked shotgun player that a smart or more "original" PvPer would be able to see. Aside from what I listed above in my first reply, the Bionade is another useful tool. Trashbag feet anyone? I now I have had this used on me before.

All in all no one is being "forced" into new play styles. Each one has their own way of countering cloak, but if you don't experiment then you'll never find it.

PS, experimenting is OK. Nothing in this game keeps track of K/D so no one is going to find out about that game where you didn't have a 4.0 K/D. ;)

Of coarse you disagree, you play shotcloak dont you? Look, if it wasn't so OP then 90% of the people in every PvP battle wouldn't be using it, period. Its noob mode as any OP skill Ive ever seen any any MMO, ever.

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Originally Posted by Monarch

Of coarse you disagree, you play shotcloak dont you? Look, if it wasn't so OP then 90% of the people in every PvP battle wouldn't be using it, period. Its noob mode as any OP skill Ive ever seen any any MMO, ever.

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Didn't even make it to "Now, before you disregard the rest of my post because I am "one of them", here me out, " lol.

I agree that bionades counter cloak/shotty pretty hard. It both slows him and does continuous damage if he stays in the area so his cloak AND his shotty are worthless at that point. I honestly kinda feel that shotguns were balanced around infestors doing so well but that their nerf has left people that want to feel like they're super op #1 with only the cloak/shotty combo.

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Originally Posted by Monarch

Of coarse you disagree, you play shotcloak dont you? Look, if it wasn't so OP then 90% of the people in every PvP battle wouldn't be using it, period. Its noob mode as any OP skill Ive ever seen any any MMO, ever.

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How about you give some feedback instead of just yelling "it's noob nerf it"


Maybe if people would post suggestions and ideas on how to improve pvp other than "nerf this" and "nerf that" (like me and distorted did) things would get better

I think it is obvious that Trion didn't mean for cloak to be so offensive. The sucker punch and shadow strike combo I think broke their original idea of it being a sniper based EGO used to strike hard with a sniper or use it to bug out once located (based on the pursuit "Snipe From the Shadows" and the fact that Blur was included as a gap closer already). Hence the shield regen because it works really great as a sniper to sit and snipe and then when another shotty user ambushes you to duck behind cover and activate it to make an escape while recovering some of the damage you received. So nerfing the shield regen will make it even less appealing to snipers.

I think Shadow strike needs a rework to make it less shotgun friendly like a distance modifier or something. make it do something like 10% damage increase at 10 meters or under. 20% at 20-10, and only the full 30% at 30 meters or more. Just a rough tweak off the top of my head though. Or another possibility would be to make it only apply to melee, pistols, and sniper rifles. Or last the controversial idea of making cloak more visible the closer you are to the player using it.

Your argument about whether it applies per pellet or to the total shot is irrelevant by the way as it is a percentage not a static damage increase so it would equal the same increase regardless of how it is calculated.

I don't understand how this is hard to fix. Cloak needs to last only a few seconds, be seen by players 0-15 yards, and once shoot. You no longer can re-enter stealth until cd resets. Stealth works good unless you sprint. Once you sprint it makes players able to see you between 0-30 yards.

Duh? FFS what was beta for?

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Originally Posted by SilverTrimm

I don't understand how this is hard to fix. Cloak needs to last only a few seconds, be seen by players 0-15 yards, and once shoot. You no longer can re-enter stealth until cd resets. Stealth works good unless you sprint. Once you sprint it makes players able to see you between 0-30 yards.

Duh? FFS what was beta for?

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So your solution is to nerf it so hard no one will ever use it? How butthurt are you by cloak-shottys roflstomping you in pubs?

The more pvp I play, the more I know that trion is going to do something about it. If not next patch, then very soon. One only has to take a look at infectors and sawed off's to see the trend.