Saw multiple threads about F2P (free to play) or SUB (pay to play) with mixed answers so i made a poll for it http://poll.pollcode.com/p8xp2t
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Saw multiple threads about F2P (free to play) or SUB (pay to play) with mixed answers so i made a poll for it http://poll.pollcode.com/p8xp2t
This is a really really tough decision.....subs bring a balanced game but with fewer players and f2p brings many players but a system I just never liked :/.
exactly my thought . i voted sub tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Paladin
i will enjoy more the game if it was less player(but mostly quality player since they will pay for a game they enjoy and like) with a nice balance into it . =D
You should have added B2P ( Buy 2 Play) to the poll. I got a feeling that it will be like Guild Wars 2 buy the game with no Sub and have a in game store.Quote:
Originally Posted by stormaaron
I agree with what you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by vampero
And if you look at the interview that was given to Zam. They said it was to be something with several options. But first you will still have to buy the box, after that it will be your option to SUB or go F2P. Its clear that SUB players will have advantages that the F2P will have to pay for.
SWTOR just did that. They went F2P with a Sub option. i think its worked out for them since the servers got over loaded already. a lot of people want F2P to try the game out then go sub when they want to pvp/raid and get more in depth with all the game has to offer.
With Defiance im not sure this model would work since a lot of the game is based around group play and pvp.
Personally i would love a Sub system since it makes the player base more loyal and conscious about how they play the game and interact with each other.
Although F2P has been know to bring in more cash to the company, so it makes it a very tempting solution for long term sustainability. but i think since rift is still sub based and strong as ever there is no reason Defiance can't follow in its wake.
F2P all the fluff they sell i won't be buying anyway and i like paying less, as far as jerks go that is what ignore feature is for. A lot of people that want games to be sub only know they are gonna go broke buying cosmetic items so they are asking the game to save them....from themselves. Statistically the people that complain the most about F2P are its biggest consumers.
I could not find your answer there. From the first phrase you say you look in favor of F2P. And you are clearly saying that you would not spend a single penny in the store. But my question, as we now that it will be most likly at least buy the box then chose, will you buy the box (or pay the download from steam or elsewhere)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuchaka
ya i am fine buying the box generally that is referred to as buy to play , like GW2.
you forgot a 3rd option the choice sub = access to everything and dlc for free, f2p = buy micro transaction items plus buy dlc. so sub pay 180 a year for sub and enjoy everything, ftp pay 30+ a year on item and pay 5-15 per dlc. so lets say their are 4 dlc aka patch in a year that's 20-60 plus your item that's 50-90 a year far cheaper then sub.
that's how i think it should work and its how swtor and secret world are runnig
so far i love how they want a do it :
Dealspwn: So there'll be a one off-purchase...
Hill: Right.
Dealspwn: ... how then will you monetise it?
Hill: What we've talked about - it's not 100% but this is what we're looking at doing - is a dual system where somebody can decide that they want to grab little-by-little individual microtransactions and individual download content or they can subscribe and get all of that stuff included.
Dealspwn: So there'll be a premium membership or you can cherry-pick what you want?
Hill: Exactly.
Dealspwn: Will there be experience boosters and other time-savers?
Hill: Boosters are one of the things we're looking at, for sure. What we don't want to do is sell weapons. Cosmetic customisation - not just you but the vehicles you can drive. Those are the two primary drivers, besides download content which will only be available if you actually purchase it.
if they make it work like that i would totally be cool with it =D
( http://www.dealspwn.com/defiance-int...ob-hill-124125 )
I wonder how that'll work though :S. Are they going to provide the premiums with exclusives, free content, or weekly goodies that would be in the microtransaction shop?Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingPatt
that something i wonder too . maybe it give premium example 5 exp booster per week free but if you want more you need to pay more . but personally if i pay for premium i don't want to have to pay for micro-transaction too =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin
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Originally Posted by AmazingPatt
This is basically a little like Star Wars the Old Republic.
Is free to download but your limited in how much of it you can do.
You need Micro Transactions for limited access to Pvp warzones and end game raiding content. Some purchases through micro transactions give a you a weeks access.
Subscribing for a month gives you more access as a 'prefferred status' customer
While those that have purchased the game and continue a subscription gain unlimited access to all content. which you can supplement with Micro transactions (of which you gain free 'credit' to purchase while your subscribing)
I think its a very good system and although alot of criticism has been made that Starwars going to free to play was a 'fail' system is in fact brilliant.
Those committed to many aspects of the game will find that a subscription gives them unlimited access to Warzones/pvp battleground and end game pve content.
Those that want access by micro transactions will be able to pay for the 5 or 6 PVP warzone access for the week for a cheaper price but if they have tyhe time or want to play more they will be better off subscribing.
This means you can choose which revenue fits your 'play time' more than anything.
The Micro transaction shop other than access for non subscribers also contains Vanity items that give no game benefit other than customizable appearances or minor experience boosts.
All in all this is probably the best system Ive seen to give a great revenue stream for Trion and Scifi as well as not being 'pay to win' but actually 'pay to play more' for the less casuals.
This isn't SWTOR system, but D&D Online system. The one that came up as a last ditch effort to save failing mmo title(which it did in abundance), and the one that every other failing p2p mmo has adopted(DCUO, TSW and SWTOR are recent examples).
I might as well refrain from from investing into Defiance for a while, if TRION needs that system right off the bat to keep the game going.
its the nature of today market i don't like it, i wish we could get out of this slump where people don't want to pay for games or content. i hope that that developers come to the realization that this is not sustainable for growth and go you what your going to pay for games again and if you don't like it too bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by deusex2
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Originally Posted by Plasma
Yeah, and what's ironic is that in the end those people who are attracted by "free" part end up paying much more for less, in the long run.
As for growth, well, f2p attracts lots of people, but the problem is the quality of those people, not to mention the fact that f2p basically leaves people unpunished, whereas p2p system tends to keep troublemakers in check, more or less.
So yeah, it's good for business, but bad for us-consumers, at least for those who realize those simple facts.
Isn't f2p already out of the question? GameStop already holds pre orders for standard, limited, and collectors editions each at their respective prices of $60, $100, and $150. Now we just wait to see how the Microtransaction shop/subscription system will work
If that is the case, then Trion probably aims for buy2play model, the same as GW1,2 uses. And considering how Arena Net handles item shop in their game, well I just hope Trion isn't planning to have some stupid Black Lion chests with stupid chest keys being bought for real cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin
f2p does not guarantee free to buy the box will most likely have a price.
selling 100,000 boxes at 50 would net them 5mill that's a good start to paying off the game
I posted this in one of the other business model threads but it looks like a lot people missed it.
http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=31361&storypage=2
We haven’t picked one 100% yet, but we’re looking at a boxed product, so you’ll go to the store and you’ll buy it, or potentially download it through something like PSN. And then you have a choice – it’s dual – where you can decide “I want to pick things and pay for them piecemeal”, or “I can pick a subscription, and get all of that stuff as I go, and get all of the DLC free as long as I’m subscribed.”
This seems to make the most sense. With the XBL and Play stores, adding another for the PC seems the most logical. There's also the fact I doubt a console gamer would pay a subscription. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by vampero
surprisingly console gamer when they like their game they don't mind subscribing or going premium like battlefield 3 and cod elite and pay a extra 50$ almost . even phantasy star and final fantasy had subscription fee and are still running ( i don't know if they are still popular trough xP ) but paying subscription is not big issue for console =DQuote:
Originally Posted by Chaotica
This is actually very true. However Phantasy Star is no longer running. I feel though that if subs become the only form of payment they should offer a deal where purchasing subscription includes XBL membershipQuote:
Originally Posted by AmazingPatt
you are referring to monster hunter in japan right? where every month you get a 30 day gold . so technically you don't lose your gold which i like a lot . and i didn't know psu is down =( i thought only the demo was taking out .Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin
Please Trion. No subs. Subs are the old model. FTP with paid xp multipliers, sidegrades and vanities at a dollar a pop is where its at nowadays. Anyway, not everyone has a credit card or tops up the console wallet all that often.
Go free 'episodic' DLC updates and plot critical premium DLC, a couple per season with season cliffhanger epic raid content. Yay.
DLC content:
Thinking there of raids themed on some mcguffin (tech item or VIP rescue) talked about or seen briefly in an episode, the DLC giving the players some backstory of what said mcguffin is for and why the show needed it.
Critical raids would be foreshadowed in the show, 'Omg, we need to send Bravo Team to secure that super secret technology thing, or we all gonna be in trouble!', (yes im not a pro writer) if the players fail hard the show ought to reflect that in saying 'Bravo Team flatlined sir!' or if the majority of players beat the content, 'Bravo Team report victory sir!'. And an episode draws on that as something of importance to the overall war effort, with grunts running with slo-mo asplosions detailing player efforts against the monster horde, and the building of some new awesome AA lasers back at base for example.
TL;DR, Missions and raids in tandem with the show plot. Paid DLC MUST influence the show, free DLC MUST immerse gamers into important plot points. All of it must make sense in context of the show, otherwise why bother.
However, never, ever, shovel out some godawful mess like 'A rift has opened! Go to Blahtown and murderize the evil [insert cheesy World Boss]! You must be taller than this sign to enter. Pay nao and receive triple fanboy points!'.
Why pay? People pay for their cable tv to watch the show so its not a huge leap to think, "Hey, if a drop a couple bucks i get to do THAT AWESOME THING IN THE SHOW JUST NOW but in the game! and look cool while I'm at it!, and I get a new shiny look for my gun and a pet!, and dude! players can influence the show, thats mindbendingly cool! take my money!".
Microtransaction Store:
Weapons, abilities and such, but never ever gear so uber that the vanilla players feel paywalled and the 'short on time, long on stupid' gamer can purchase away all further game challenge into the corner sobbing to itself.
Include interesting 'sidegrades' that allow broad character customisation, within strict constraints, so no uber builds that crush everything.
Any sidegrade, item, deployable, weapon, armor, skillbook, or whatever.. Any at all with no exception, should operate only one way. If there are skill values x and y, the item can raise x a little at the expense of a little y. Within a budget constraint capped by an EGO pool or something. That is playstyle customization not pay to win.
So a player could 'spec' as, lets say, a medic but suck a bit more in the tanking category. Which is a tank players job, who in turn sucks a bit more at the medical category.
Include many many 'look and feel' variants of gear, and vanity items like clothes, hair and armor decals. All ranging from free to paid, paid reserved for the real pretty or high tech stuff.
Fun stuff:
Autofollowing pets like a busted repair drone called Sparks hovering over the shoulder, or a little tame world mob, the red one with the freakish maw, called Mr Nibbles naturally, growling occasionally. Pets confer no abilities other than looking cool, marking some milestone like beta involvment or achievement like a kill on a worldboss. Or a gold gun or whatever. Just nothing really obnoxious like flying mounts.
And thats all I'm writing for now. Mr Nibbles wants his nap. O\/\/\/O Rawrff?
Yeah I felt the same way :(Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingPatt
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Originally Posted by Cpt Blud
DLC is a shortcut to hell. Sooner or later everyone start abusing DLC system to squeeze more cash out of players. I'd rather pay for a well earned expansion pack. Because when the dev makes you pay 50-60$ for it, they have no choice but to make it attractive to you, whereas DLC delivers a quest or two and rips you off for 10$.
Sub..
preferably a Bi-monthly Sub.....So Damned tired of the the "Free-to-Play, Drop real money to buy power" Fad that has swept over the franchise. Just saying the name world of tanks is like a swear word to me.
F2P, We are already paying to purchase the game initially. As long as the item store doesn't make it unbalanced or create super powered players I think it'll be a great system. I can see paid and unpaid dlc content aswell. paid for the larger portions. I wouldn't be too crazy to pay 60 bucks for a game and then bust out a credit card number for a sub. not cool
This game will totally flop if it requires $60 up front and/or has subscription fees. The only way this game builds up a decent playerbase is with a F2P model. As long as they keep the microtransactions from being Pay 2 Win I think it's really the only way to go if they truly want the game to be successful.
F2P: You can get at every part of the game with in reason. You can go any where, reach max level, get any weapon and use it. You can buy boosters that make things go faster, not get anything right away. You can buy skins or model swap outs so your guy looks badass. Free players may have a smaller backpack but still a reasonable amount of room. Character slot may also be limited for free players but enough for 2 or 3 slots.
This is what I think a good F2P game is, Blacklight does this pretty damn good, you put in time and you get more out and shop prices are well with in reach, one good game and you can get most things. This one also seems to make the most money, TF2 had a 12x increase in income after going free to play. I find this the best way to make money if you have a large enough time for content. I love Free to play.
Sub:You pay monthly for a game no matter how much you play. I believe this was good about 5 to 10 years ago but now it is just not wroth it. The devs get a fixed income from each member and people don't always want to pay monthly just to play a game, WoW keeps dropping to around a million active accounts in between releases.
P2W: Mostly like free to play for free players, but paying players get to go everywhere, frees don't. Paying players can buy something that makes them strong and get boosts right away that makes them stronger(going lvl 1 to 10). Free players mostly can't get anything in the store and only have one slot
P2P: EVE, I don't have much time with P2P game but EVE is one.
B2P: Only good for single player game, good for players for mmos but I don't see as much money here as F2P
both are terrible ideas. How about one time purchase for 60$ and non micro transaction or stupid subscription. The game will die before it even comes out. No one on console want to do that crap and pc people really dont like micro transaction . None of those games do well in the long run. Both ideas are stupid.
Ok pay for the game 1x!! then add on dlc or have a bf3 premium idea. I have high hope for this game, but i wont touch it if i have micro F2p is stupid hands down or sub. Both will kill the game incredibly fast.
Again with DLCs...What's with people so willing to throw their money away into the wind?!
First of, Defiance is a MMO, not multiplayer game like BF3, so please no need for lame DLC, it's what ruins games.
Second, once again, why are you, people, so willing to pay 10$ for a raid or two?!
And third, DLC for MMO is a source of blatantly OP stuff. Every time stuff comes out as DLC for MMO, it's something OP, which basically forces you to buy it in order to compete with others. There are very few MMOs out there who doesn't do that.
So please, no DLC in MMO, enough! Open cosmetics store and flood it with cosmetic items all you like, throw in xp/cash boosters and even add ability to buy in-game cash for real money(that's the best way to fight with gold-sellers)! Just don't do any DLC stuff! Feel free to release expansion packs every now and then, but don't do DLCs!
Good luck getting people to invest $60 in a brand new MMO IP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_wraith
Uh, that's what people normally do, actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atheosis
I vote sub all the way. Free to play usually means pay to win.
I don't get why people are against paying $10.00 - $15.00 a month for many, many hours of entertainment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultima12
You can't even take the ol' lady to the movies for that.
:confused:
Actually they don't. Most new IP's fail. Especially MMO's.Quote:
Originally Posted by deusex2
And if it doesn't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultima12