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If the devs know what they are doing it will be free to play but not pay to win. It is all about the item but not the power in free to play games. Firefall and Planet Side 2 are free to play and Defiance can't compete with those Triple AAA MMO shooter. Not ever free to play game is pay to win.
*unless Defiance is also free to play
Care to provide examples? Because as much as I remember, most of recent p2p titles failed not because of paying model, but because of crapload of other reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atheosis
Well that's the thing-it mostly is.Quote:
And if it doesn't?
Firefall is still in beta so that doesn't counts for much. As for Planetside2, it pretty much is a p2w dumbed down version of PS1.Quote:
If the devs know what they are doing it will be free to play but not pay to win. It is all about the item but not the power in free to play games. Firefall and Planet Side 2 are free to play and Defiance can't compete with those Triple AAA MMO shooter. Not ever free to play game is pay to win.
Then I don't know, honestly. Whatever it takes for this game to be sucessful. We console gamers need a truely good mmo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atheosis
But, free to play is almost always pay to win....
Plus, Firefall will be completely free. I also wouldnt consider it AAA. I played the beta and it's decent enough but it definitely feels like a free game. I don't think many people would pay $60 for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by deusex2
Firefall is coming a long great but there is no set date for release but I would say in about 4-6 months it will be release, it will be right along defiance for players and if a play has to choose free over pay they will go free. This game might not work for x-box, Microsoft is a **** when it comes to patches and updates.
I'm a fan of subs, I've posted on other similer threads as to why.
Of course everyone wants something for free, but when they make something awesome, they wanna charge others for it.
Sub will do several things:
provide the developers with a steady paycheck to KEEP developing.
Limit access to the game/community from spammers, scammers and lamers (not eliminate, but limit)
Give a reason to think of how each player is behaving, if they are faced with a ban for misbehaving or cheating
One of the cons of a sub has mostly to do with console gamers. PSN and MSL both charge fees to access their online content, ONTOP of their normal internet access subscription. This has nothing to do with the game developers, it has everything to do with Sony and Microsoft. Complaining about that, would be like complaining to Ford or Honda about why they have to pay Chevron 3 bucks a gallon for gas.
On the flip side, the fees you pay PSN and MSL for access, isnt exclusive to Defiance, it's also part of ALL your online content. MAYBE, PSN and MSL access sub will be included at discount with a defiance sub, who knows until you see it.
Bottom line, imo: If you cant afford to play the game, maybe you shouldnt be playing the game.
and TL;DR; It was already hinted at, that you will have a choice to buy dlc "piece meal" content and access, or pay a sub an get it all included. "Free" wont happen, if it does, I want my Lambo.
PSN is a free services but I never thought about spammers and how it could effect this game. But still most people want to try before buy and free to play is the best for income. You just have to have your store set up right. Exp boosters, skins and paints, access weapons and stuff early.
any game that has an in game market, gets hit with gold sellers. Free, like firefall, will have it in abundance, provided firefall implements a player trade system.
The only reason they don't have it is because they are working on a way to stop gold farmers. They could make a lot money off gold farmer if they use a system. Players can put in-game money up for real money. The market would flood and gold farmers are gone. You can see this in the steam market, bad crates in the last 24 hours have dropped to 50% of what they were selling for yesterday. Everyone wants to under cut everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadinaxx
Diablo III
good luck with people actually buying into a F2p game. I hate to break it too you, but most if not all f2p games are pay to win. No such thing as F2p game and monthly subs are just dumb, why would you wanna pay monthly for a game is beyond me. 10-15$ to play on a console? F-that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atheosis
Gameplay is SOOOOOO much more rewarding as a sub. However i dont think my wallet can take another sub game so I'm hoping for a b2p with xp boosts and expansions not DLCQuote:
Originally Posted by Black_wraith
Yeah...Personally, I'd rather have p2p, but I don't mind b2p, so long as there are no DLCs, because as of late, those are nothing but a slap in the face of gamer with common sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin
You guys thing how to get the game effects the way it plays, I can tell you that free to play games can be better than other game that are p2p. Blacklight is better than COD, Blacklight has all the basic gameplay elements of the COD games but has it game play set up so you don't have to deal with campers and cheap stuff. It is not the way you pay it is about how the devs make the game. When you think about it what you really mean to say is, All current f2p games I have played have not been as good as sub.
this ^^^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Plzbanme
No one on console wants to do that. I'm fine with buying the game or buying the game as a premium model with dlc(as long as they have a *** load of content). Think about it, only a handle full of people want to do that subscription crap. Since this game isn't really well known threw out the game world think about it, you'd shoot yourself in the foot if it was 10$ a month plus a base price. rewarding please, whatever happened to make a game you pay a flat price then half that for a large expansion...Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin
I think base price plus premium. MMO aren't doing as well because of subscription fee, and F2p games are kinda meh...the games with "premium" package seem to sell more *points at borderlands 2 and BF3* subcription may be a good idea, but not for console and not for a absurd price like 10-15$ a month. If you think so good luck seeing this game sell large amounts, i want this game to be a hit
Well actually Dc Online for ps3 came out selling a lot of units but didn't get a lot of them to stay because of the subs. So if defiance becomes a b2p they will sell a lot And keep their players. An MMO on a console is a tempting idea many players will like to try. Slap the fps action on there and you get many more players. They can also do a plan where buying MMO subscription also gives you Xbox Live subscription. They've been doing this on Monster Hunter Frontier and its selling greatQuote:
Originally Posted by Black_wraith
Please don't bring in Blacklight into this. The game is nothing but a hackfest, coupled with grind from hell. You're either forced to use the same starter crap all the time and get beaten by just about anyone or you can just unlock everything you want by buying it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plzbanme
It's pretty much the same as Planetside2, only PS2 is more balanced and plays on a massive scale.
Optional Subscription based games are stupid and alienate a lot of players that can't afford to pay for subs from joining friends at in-game events. A smart company would make it easy for everyone to play together and allow micro-transactions for cosmetic and mild convenience items.
The big problem I see is that game companies that use f2p models often copy the standard pay to win cash shops that korean developers are so fond of. While these games start popular since they are new and die quickly because items in the cash shops quickly gives an advantage to those that spend tons of money(perfect world, aeria games, and Nexon spring to mind.) I've recently been seeing a trend with newer US and European developers are moving to convenience and cosmetic only items. Upcoming game firefall is a good example of this so far, but that game is still in early development so I can only hope they keep it that way.
I've never stuck with optional subscription games. As stated above they alienate players that don't have are want to spend money on subscription or can't afford to buy the stuff through micro transactions. Its really annoying to get to a certain point in a game with friends and find out they cannot join you because they don't the premium membership that you do. While sub games like dc online and star wars are fun at first they quickly become money grabs that are just as bad as a lot of f2p with pay to win cash shops.
Pay 2 play games that require a renewed subscriptions are alright. I like the balance that you get from them not having cash shops. I've been pay for extra cosmetic and dlc items pop up on these games lately. Making them effectively as bad as game with cash shops. When you're paying a monthly fee already why should you need to pay extra for special content. That stuff should be available to everyone and is just showing excessive greed from game companies. I also don't like the fact that a lot of my friends cannot play the game with me unless they are paying for the game.
As for me, I stick to more independent games that are f2p and have no pay to win cash items yet. I don't mind paying for an initial game and massive expansions like guildwars does. One thing I won't do is use a game that separates its players by the amount of money they can afford spend through some sort of tiered subscription like Sony does with there games.
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Originally Posted by jcdraider
i like this post a lot. Personally i prefer battlefield 3 idea base game or package with premium an get early access to dlc's . i probably wont get this game if it has subscrption or in game money which beyond horrible
A grind from hell? That is only if you are stupid, you don't prem-buy every part you want. You rent by what you need and hackers are not common anymore. Blacklight is good if you know what you are doing, but yes there is some grinding. But when you think about it grinding is part of the game in nature. You want to play the game to start with and you earn GP for doing so, it is a fun grind. And it is very balanced game, with a very high learning curve, you got to aim for the head.Quote:
Originally Posted by deusex2
I myself want F2P with option to buy content or the ability to make very small amounts of store points buy playing content and winning, maybe since this game runs with TV series have hints on it where to find store points that are very hard to follow without being really into game think that will get people to watch the show and play the game I for one am very excited to watch the show and then jump into game and follow a story that way seems very refreshing to me and no one has brought this up I do not get that this can be one of the biggest things ever if people do it right. And I must say I feel that so far Trion is doing a great job at this from the VBI site to all the videos about the game that always talk about the show and how it connects.
this is just my opinion I do hope others share it though.
There's nothing balanced about it. The game designed to be pay2win and you simply can't keep up with competition unless you cough up the dough. Not to mention that the game itself is CoD lite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plzbanme
We already know it uses somekind of hydrid business model. Theres free and paid content.
Just because you suck at the game doesn't mean you can say it is pay to win. I was playing with stock for the longest time and kicking ***, and if you don't like stock just get a premade. Don't for get high learning curve, I bet you jump for 5 minutes when it went on steam, got your *** kicked by everyone that has been playing the game since it launch outside of steam and thought it must be play to win. If you play about 2 hours a day(I was doing 4 hours per day for about month before steam) You earn about 125 per game, and you can get 10 games in about a 2 hour period. 125 time 10 is 1250 and 1250 time 7 is 8750 gp a week which is two prem-buys. There are also all the stuff you get as you rank up, which let you keep trying parts as you keep trying to find which parts meet your play style. Also they give you the best killsteak right off the bat, the hardsuit.Quote:
Originally Posted by deusex2
I was in it's beta and at it's launch. Cool trolling trolling though. I state the fact-whoever pays real cash gains the advantage and you run your mouth about how bad I must be at that crap of a game-very mature of you.
I was decent at that garbage rip-off, but all I could do was working for guns instead of having fun, hence grind from hell. You could buy everything you wanted and roflstomp anyone in that game, or you could be a slave and work for guns, only to be eventually roflstomped.
And when you consider the amount of money you have to spend in order to have fun instead of having another job, BF+COD are actually cheaper in a long run.
Wow, so you weren't having fun and keep playing? I don't know why you would. It is balance and stock is just as good as top level stuff. I use stock armor for the most part all but my helmet which has a special skin got it free. The game has gone through changes since launch.Quote:
Originally Posted by deusex2
Hi Plzbanme,
If you whant just play F2P games you should go to the EST, go live in China or Korea. If you dont whant to pay for stuff, mabe you should go to... nowhere. No one will give you nothing for free, the free in F2P its just an ilusion, where if you dont spend money you are not at the same lvl as the ones that do spend it.
In life to survive you need a job to make money to pay the rent and to buy food. So Devs and companies have the right to charge you for there jobe.
Man, I feel sorry for you. You have play such bad free to play game you can't stand the sight of them. And I know free to play isn't free, they charge in time and effort, something today's games don't have and really need. Also after TF2 went free to play, it saw a 12X income increase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fikticio
I have to say I disagree. I play DDO and if I really wanted to not pay for anything I do not have to most of the game I have Bought because I do love playing the game. but I have also made a lot of store points by just playing the game what like I said is what I love to do, play the game. so F2P can be free if someone is willing to do the grind what is very possible. depending on what type of F2P system is in use but I think this is just the NEW and people have to get used to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fikticio
Change is part of Life
I have played some good F2P games, but after a while i got tired of the giga grind (alods)(requiem), there ar good free to play game, but you have to admit the store calls for you to spend money if you whant to see the end game (see it soon), a good exemple of a game that is now free to play and as one of the most giga grinds ever is Aion, and i played the game on day first and payed for 6 months (subed), i was blinded by the new. Most free to play are to estern.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plzbanme
And TF2 whent free to play as an ilusion, they whented to try somthing, it was a experiment, but to see it you need to benot blinded by the fact its free and see what apening in the game industry.
First, free to play is here since 1996, its not new, whats new is the way they now use it to make tons of money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thayl Ruttgar
Second, DDO whent free to play whith a ton of restiction, if you whant to play all the game buy the dlc and play all classes and all races (play all the game) you have to spend money.
.............
Again I said you can do it without ever opening your wallet but it does take time but you pay with your time instead of money you should look closer to how things really are there I have spent less than $200.00 and been playing for two years that would be more than $200.00 as a sub and i do not lose my stuff if I don't pay. open your eyes and really if you think about time 1996 is not forever ago and the way F2P is now used is the way things are going since it has been around since then I do not think it is going anywhere.
Man, if you whant somone to get addicted to somthing, just give them a litle and they will ask you for more and more... Yes in all (or most) F2P games you can work you way just by playing in time, but in the end if you whant to kep up with the rest what can you do. And a year pass sub in some game cost 100$, DCUO when it cam out was selling life time subs for 200$ (or less dont remember).
The point on spending money in a game, if the game is good and the store is good every player will a some point spend money in it. And in the end the point of a F2P is to get the whales.
They need to make money some where, that is why things are the way they are in a lot of free to play games. If you could do everything fast why would you ever spend money or even play for that matter. Tell what you think would be good for a free to play game. Beside you are getting the game free, it is kinda a **** move to ***** about how long it takes to do anything.
Oh, it was fun at first and yeah-the basic gear was enough for any pug stomps. However that gear was only good enough for pug stomps and nothing more. Any 1lvl idiot coughing out 25$ up front would dominate any match, why? Because he'd buy his access to the highest lvl gear. And have you ever ran into premades or clans wearing fully customized gear? You literally had no chance against any of them, even if you'd get a drop on one guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plzbanme
To stand a chance against those guys you had to re-customize your gear and your gear selection was limited to your level unless you'd buy your way out of leveling curve. And even when you'd be lvl high enough, you'd still have to earn enough money to rent the gear itself. You'd literally be forced to grind for several days in order to rent all the gear for one lousy day.
So I gave the game a break and by the time I've returned I saw stupid robots dominating in every match, that was when I've said enough and uninstalled the damn game.
Don't get me wrong, I liked the idea and the customization in the game, those were major sale points for me and they were awesome. Unfortunately, Perfect World made sure to restrict it as much as possible for free players and they made sure that the only way to truly enjoy the system was to pay cash, lots of it...Or to grind stupid exp for eternity.
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Right now I'm playing Hawken, it's a f2p game, where free players aren't meat for slaughter, where you can literally play without paying a single dollar and still be on par with others. You have the same selection as every other player in-game. You can buy just about everything performance related with in-game currency, except for cosmetics and xp/in-game currency boosters. And with real cash you can buy pretty much everything, except you can't buy your way out of leveling, unlike Blacklight.
Not to mention the fact that in Hawken skill beats everything. You can be lvl1 newbie and you can devastate lvl25 pilot(max lvl), so long as you're skillful enough. That was how Blacklight should be, but they went and allowed any scrub to buy his way to glory.
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As for DDO, I actually like their system. The game itself ended up being turned into WoW with d20 dices, but the system they came up with to save the game was pretty good. I mean you can grind enough stuff while playing for free to afford to buy DLCs and stuff from item-shop, which is nice. I also like how you can buy piece by piece stuff. For example if you don't like the whole DLC, but you only like the new class or race, you can unlock only those.
And this is something that lots of other companies overlooked, SOE for example, with DCUO.
Speaking of DCUO, I've actually bout life-sub for that. I payed 60$ for the game itself and then 200$ more for the life sub, because I played it during beta and it was awesome. The problem started right after the release, though. Not only it took the devs forever to fix the exploits that were reported at the beginning of closed beta, but it also took them forever to balance things out. On top of that, they'd overnerf certain things, making some classes completely useless, while overbuffing others, making them borderline OP.
But sure, that was first year and all, except that they kept at it all the damn time(even now). But what caused the game to fail and force it into f2p, was DLC! They've made the first DLC and they were going to charge ten more bucks for it, on top of subscription! They also did it few months before SWTOR came out(real smooth guys). So the majority of player base said F to that and abandoned the game until SOE was forced to turn DCUO into f2p with optional subscription and limitations for f2p players.
Now I'm not playing the game at all, because of the changed combat system. At some point SOE just tired of trying to fix their own incompetence and said that it wasn't a bug, but a feature and it was working as intended. Later on, they've also changed few more things that made me completely give up on the game.
So yeah, let's keep DCUO out this discussion, a failure is a failure.
edit1: Also I feel the same way as Genobee about GW2, except that in GW2 leveling up isn't all that bad. What really gets to me is that in GW2 money makes more money and you HAVE to buy gems in order to generate money. You, also, have to buy stuff from the cash store if you want to be successful during holiday events. Why do you have to be successful during holiday events? TO EARN EVEN MORE MONEY! And not to suck, because when it comes down to events-GW2 becomes pay2win, which I find to be insulting to me, as a GW1 player.
edit2:WOW! I can't edit my posts five minutes after posting them?! That's messed up forum policy.
edit3:also, wow wall of text lol
All the gear is balanced with low level and high level. You think players will a lot of gear shell out money but the people that have this gear have been playing for a while and are high skill. And 25 dollars will get you half a set of armor or a low level gun. Their prices for that kind of stuff are high. If you went up against me you would get your *** handed to you on a silver platter, server 3 different ways to Sunday. It is not the gear, it is the in the player. The only reason there are rank is to keep you play and give the reward of leveling up.Quote:
Originally Posted by deusex2